[VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage
Thank you for reading my observations on stringing and commenting on them at length. This is a very long message and I suggest anyone not interested in the topic presses their delete key now. I have occasionally included references where I thought it was helpful. However I wanted to avoid referring to individuals by name and in any case the things which I say have been suggested are now widely assumed notions rather than the ideas of a single person. They are in the public domain. The point about speculation is that it is not supported by any hard evidence. When it comes to assumptions we are all entitled to speculate but we should try not to let our immaginations run riot! Point by point... 1Corbetta may indeed have seen Carre's book, as most likely it was published a few months before La Guitarre royalle was printed. It is hardly a matter of wild speculation to suppose this. We don't know whether Corbetta had seen Carre's book or not. We can't be certain that it appeared in print before La guitarre royale. We don't know how many copies of it were printed or how widely it circulated. 2We don't really know what moved Carre to include his advice to add a bourdon to the fourth course. Monica seems to think that he changed his stringing in imitation of Corbetta, and that his words in fact are a reference to Corbetta's tuning. I think it is unlikely that Corbetta would copy what Carre had said given that Corbetta was the most distinguished guitarist of his generation and didn't need any advice from anyone else. 3...I would assume the possibility that Corbetta has copied Carre's advice into his own preface, and put it in his own words. There is no way that you can prove that is the case. 4 In his preface Corbetta complains that: 'There are always envious people who say that my style is too difficult, because a part of my pieces approaches that of the lute. This has nothing to do with the method of stringing that Corbetta may have used. Having a bourdon of the 5th course does not make the music any more difficult to play. He is referring to the style of his music which is not predominantly strummed like that in his 1674 book where he makes a similar remark. 5He must have realized that the music from his 1671 collection would not work in re-entrant tuning, and he was careful to make it clear that, on the contrary, 'French' stringing was acceptable for his works. Certainly he thought that a fully re-entrant tuning was not suitable for his music but he clearly thought that the French method was. Nothing he says suggests that it was unsuitable or inferior. 6.In this manner, he may have anticipated more profits from the group of French players who at that time were starting to add fourth-course bourdons to their instruments. Most likely Antoine Carre was one of those. The profits from the sale of the book would have gone to Bonneuil to whom Corbetta had already ceded the privileges. 7Monica concludes her discussion of 'La Guitarre royalle' by saying: 'There is no reason why we should not take what Corbetta has said at face value. The method of stringing which he refers to, with octave stringing on the fourth course but not the fifth, is clearly the one intended for the music in La Guitarre royale and probably the one he used himself throughout most of his career. We can all pick and chose what we take at face value. Corbetta presumably wrote the preface to La guitarre royale himself and is clearly referring throughout to the way in which he thought his own music should be played. It is reasonable to take what he says at face value unless there is good reason to do otherwise. Presumably you would take everything else in it at face value. 7 However, if we would follow Corbetta's instructions, we would just end up adding fourth-course bourdons to guitars in re-entrant tuning. He has not said anything about the fifth course. We could of course speculate on what Corbetta would have thought of removing the fifth-course bourdon of a guitar in 'Italian' tuning, if he really thought that 'French' tuning was the only good option for his music. And it would be interesting to know why he has never mentioned that. It may not have ever have occurred to him to mention it because he may never have used a bourdon on the 5th course in the first place. The evidence suggests that re-entrant tuning was widely known and used in Italy. 8The objections that are raised to the use of a fifth-course bourdon, about the (supposed inferior) quality of plain gut bass strings, the inconveniences with campanelas and ornaments on strings of uneven thickness, may have been completely irrelevant to him. This seems an extarordinary thing to say. Why would anyone at all use a re-entrant tuning if there was a better option readily available? It would have been the most important factor in deciding what to do. It is still an important issue today.
[VIHUELA] Re: Monica's webpage
I suppose Lex may now reply at length On the contrary, I have nothing to add. I made my point in my previous message Lex. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage
Your site is wonderful, Monica; thank you for all the valuable work you've made available to everyone. I signed up to follow your site (the first time this old-fashioned guitarist has ever done such a thing). Shall we make an announcement in the next LSA Quarterly? I'm not sure we've mentioned your site since the complete Foscarini's been up. Best, Jocelyn PS: I looked up the exotic simnel cake. It sounds intriguing, but I think I'll stick with dark chocolate. Have a delicious Easter and a great rest! -- From: Monica Hall [1]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2012 21:58:11 +0100 To: Vihuelalist [2]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage I'm overwhelmed with all your good wishes. Thank you. Actually I prefer simnel cake (if non-English members know what that is) to chocolate bunnies and I have laid in a goodly supply to eat on Easter Sunday.Only 36 hours to go now before I can tuck in. Monica - Original Message - From: Rockford Mjos [3]rm...@comcast.net To: Monica Hall [4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist [5]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 4:08 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage Hello Monica. Thank you (again!) for your great and valued contributions! You deserve an extra big chocolate bunny this Easter! -- R On Apr 5, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Monica Hall wrote: Thank-you Rob. I expect everyone is on their Easter Holidays. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Rob MacKillop To: [2]Monica Hall Cc: [3]Vihuelalist Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Monica's Webpage No responses to this? I think Monica deserves all our praise for the incredible amount of work she has put in, and for which we have free access to. Thank You, Monica! Rob On 3 April 2012 21:26, Monica Hall [4][6]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: I am pleased to announce that thanks to Rob's good offices my webpage has been re-done and improved. It is now at [5][7]http://monicahall.co.uk/ although the [6]www.monicahall.co.uk version still works. In particular I have completely revised and updated my paper on baroque guitar stringing. Originally this was published by the Lute Society as a booklet in their series of booklets on various lute related topics. When Rob offered me some space on his own web page I did a much abridged version of it with just the texts from the original sources with brief comments. However the booklet is something that people have to order and pay for and I get the impression that nobody bothers to do that. They just refer to the online version. So the new version is much longer and more detailed. It includes a lot more illustrations from the original sources and the tuning examples are in staff notation rather than Helmholz notation. It also includes the tables and list of sources from the booklet (updated). I have also been able to add a few more sources which I have got hold of in the meantime. It is now I think the most detailed survey of information about this topic. Comments and suggestions are always welcome. In theory I can make changes myself although I haven't risked doing that yet. Best wishes for Easter, the Spring Festival or whatever you may be minded to celebrate at the present time. It isn't actually snowing here but sleet is threatened. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [7][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. [9]mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 2. [10]mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. [11]mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. [12]mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 5. [13]http://monicahall.co.uk/ 6. [14]http://www.monicahall.co.uk/ 7. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 2. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:rm...@comcast.net 4. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 5. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 6. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 7. http://monicahall.co.uk/ 8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 9. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 10. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 11. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 12. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 13. http://monicahall.co.uk/ 14. http://www.monicahall.co.uk/ 15. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage
Thank-you Rob. I expect everyone is on their Easter Holidays. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Rob MacKillop To: [2]Monica Hall Cc: [3]Vihuelalist Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Monica's Webpage No responses to this? I think Monica deserves all our praise for the incredible amount of work she has put in, and for which we have free access to. Thank You, Monica! Rob On 3 April 2012 21:26, Monica Hall [4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: I am pleased to announce that thanks to Rob's good offices my webpage has been re-done and improved. It is now at [5]http://monicahall.co.uk/ although the [6]www.monicahall.co.uk version still works. In particular I have completely revised and updated my paper on baroque guitar stringing. Originally this was published by the Lute Society as a booklet in their series of booklets on various lute related topics. When Rob offered me some space on his own web page I did a much abridged version of it with just the texts from the original sources with brief comments. However the booklet is something that people have to order and pay for and I get the impression that nobody bothers to do that. They just refer to the online version. So the new version is much longer and more detailed. It includes a lot more illustrations from the original sources and the tuning examples are in staff notation rather than Helmholz notation. It also includes the tables and list of sources from the booklet (updated). I have also been able to add a few more sources which I have got hold of in the meantime. It is now I think the most detailed survey of information about this topic. Comments and suggestions are always welcome. In theory I can make changes myself although I haven't risked doing that yet. Best wishes for Easter, the Spring Festival or whatever you may be minded to celebrate at the present time. It isn't actually snowing here but sleet is threatened. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 5. http://monicahall.co.uk/ 6. http://www.monicahall.co.uk/ 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage
Well, I did Rob - but I sent my thanks and congrats just to her! But so the web knows - thanks again Monica. and thanks Rob fr yr time too Martyn --- On Thu, 5/4/12, Braig, Eugene brai...@osu.edu wrote: From: Braig, Eugene brai...@osu.edu Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk, Rob MacKillop robmackil...@gmail.com Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Thursday, 5 April, 2012, 15:19 Alas, no holiday for me. Still, your site is a tremendous resource, and I at least thank you for it. Eugene -Original Message- From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Monica Hall Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:53 AM To: Rob MacKillop Cc: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage Thank-you Rob. I expect everyone is on their Easter Holidays. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Rob MacKillop To: [2]Monica Hall Cc: [3]Vihuelalist Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Monica's Webpage No responses to this? I think Monica deserves all our praise for the incredible amount of work she has put in, and for which we have free access to. Thank You, Monica! Rob On 3 April 2012 21:26, Monica Hall [4][3]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: I am pleased to announce that thanks to Rob's good offices my webpage has been re-done and improved. It is now at [5][4]http://monicahall.co.uk/ although the [6]www.monicahall.co.uk version still works. In particular I have completely revised and updated my paper on baroque guitar stringing. Originally this was published by the Lute Society as a booklet in their series of booklets on various lute related topics. When Rob offered me some space on his own web page I did a much abridged version of it with just the texts from the original sources with brief comments. However the booklet is something that people have to order and pay for and I get the impression that nobody bothers to do that. They just refer to the online version. So the new version is much longer and more detailed. It includes a lot more illustrations from the original sources and the tuning examples are in staff notation rather than Helmholz notation. It also includes the tables and list of sources from the booklet (updated). I have also been able to add a few more sources which I have got hold of in the meantime. It is now I think the most detailed survey of information about this topic. Comments and suggestions are always welcome. In theory I can make changes myself although I haven't risked doing that yet. Best wishes for Easter, the Spring Festival or whatever you may be minded to celebrate at the present time. It isn't actually snowing here but sleet is threatened. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [7][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:[6]robmackil...@gmail.com 2. mailto:[7]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. mailto:[8]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:[9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 5. [10]http://monicahall.co.uk/ 6. [11]http://www.monicahall.co.uk/ 7. [12]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 4. http://monicahall.co.uk/ 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=robmackil...@gmail.com 7. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 8. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 9. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 10. http://monicahall.co.uk/ 11. http://www.monicahall.co.uk/ 12. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Monica's Webpage
Hello Monica. Thank you (again!) for your great and valued contributions! You deserve an extra big chocolate bunny this Easter! -- R On Apr 5, 2012, at 7:53 AM, Monica Hall wrote: Thank-you Rob. I expect everyone is on their Easter Holidays. Monica - Original Message - From: [1]Rob MacKillop To: [2]Monica Hall Cc: [3]Vihuelalist Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2012 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Monica's Webpage No responses to this? I think Monica deserves all our praise for the incredible amount of work she has put in, and for which we have free access to. Thank You, Monica! Rob On 3 April 2012 21:26, Monica Hall [4]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: I am pleased to announce that thanks to Rob's good offices my webpage has been re-done and improved. It is now at [5]http://monicahall.co.uk/ although the [6]www.monicahall.co.uk version still works. In particular I have completely revised and updated my paper on baroque guitar stringing. Originally this was published by the Lute Society as a booklet in their series of booklets on various lute related topics. When Rob offered me some space on his own web page I did a much abridged version of it with just the texts from the original sources with brief comments. However the booklet is something that people have to order and pay for and I get the impression that nobody bothers to do that. They just refer to the online version. So the new version is much longer and more detailed. It includes a lot more illustrations from the original sources and the tuning examples are in staff notation rather than Helmholz notation. It also includes the tables and list of sources from the booklet (updated). I have also been able to add a few more sources which I have got hold of in the meantime. It is now I think the most detailed survey of information about this topic. Comments and suggestions are always welcome. In theory I can make changes myself although I haven't risked doing that yet. Best wishes for Easter, the Spring Festival or whatever you may be minded to celebrate at the present time. It isn't actually snowing here but sleet is threatened. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:robmackil...@gmail.com 2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 5. http://monicahall.co.uk/ 6. http://www.monicahall.co.uk/ 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
