[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
What a prolific person he was. Does any other guitarist have as much output specifically for B. guitar? Corbetta and Granata both have outputs of a similar size. Indeed if all the music attributed to him in manuscripts is taken into account Corbetta beats Murcia hands down. A lot of the pieces in Murcia's books are not actually by him. This new Murzia MS has lots of diferencias on familiar grounds and some passacalles and short pieces. I haven't looked through it that much but so far only the D minor Passacalle looks familiar. Seems like tons of new stuff. Looks like same scribe as Passacalles y Obras. As always with Murzia, it's tunesful and well written for the guitar. It is definitely copied by the same scribe - probably Murcia himself although that is now a contraversial topic. Some of the pieces in Cifras are included in the other manuscripts but the extent to which they vary from one source to another hasn't really been studied in detail. A mammoth task really. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
Yes - I've got a Dropbox and I was going to suggest that as the next option. It is a wonderful facility. Everyone should have one. It's a whole new way of working. Monica - Original Message - From: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk; vl vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:47 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online Thanks for the instructions Monica. Eloy Cruz was kind enough to send it to me by Dropbox. I have to say, I hope this scanning at high resolution is a trend that goes viral. Looking at this thing is almost like holding it. thanks, On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:06 AM, Monica Hall wrote: Try this... Where it says Escriba una palabra type in Cifras selectas. This brings up a list. The second item is the manuscript. Click on the 2 at the beginning. This brings up the full entry. Look down the list and find Enlace externo with an icon beside it and instructions Enlace a texto original digitalizado. This is next but one to the bottom of the list. Below is the reference to something else. Click on that. That brings up another screen with a lot of Spanish on it about agreeing to their condition. Ignore all that. At the bottom in the blue strip you will see the same icon again and the instructions Presione aqui para ver which means press here to have a look. If you do that the first page of the manuscript should appear. Hope that helps. Monica I can't really explain it any more clearly. Most of it is clear whether you understand the Spanish or not. Where it says Escriba una palabra type in Cifras selectas. Campo de buscado = field to search Chose that. Palabro clave titlulo = title field. Chose that. Palabras adyacentes = adjacent words - Click on Si for yes. Then Buscar = search This brings up a list. No. 1 is Alejandro Vera's edition of it. No. 2 is the manuscript itself. Click on the No. 2 at the beginning. This brings up the full entry. At the bottom just above Biblioteca Campus Oriente you will find Enlace externo with an icon beside it and instructions Enlace a texto original digitalizado. Enlace externo means external link. Enlace a texto original digitalizado. means link to digital version of the original text. Click on the iconThat brings up another screen with a lot of Spanish on it about agreeing to their condition. Ignore all that. At the bottom in the blue strip you will see the same icon again and the instructions Presione aqui para ver which means press here to have a look. If you do that the first page of the manuscript should appear. Hope that helps. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
I think I see the confusion with the library site... If you click the most obvious link (the title on the right) you don't see access to the PDF. You have to click the least obvious link -- the numeral 2 at the left. I thrashed over that for a good 20 minutes myself -- finally saw that clue after reviewing the thread a bit. It isn't immediately obvious, and those who are not familiar with academic library web listings can (one hopes) be excused for missing it. cud __ From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:59 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online Yes - I've got a Dropbox and I was going to suggest that as the next option. It is a wonderful facility. Everyone should have one. It's a whole new way of working. Monica - Original Message - From: Ed Durbrow [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp To: Monica Hall [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk; vl [3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:47 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online Thanks for the instructions Monica. Eloy Cruz was kind enough to send it to me by Dropbox. I have to say, I hope this scanning at high resolution is a trend that goes viral. Looking at this thing is almost like holding it. thanks, On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:06 AM, Monica Hall wrote: Try this... Where it says Escriba una palabra type in Cifras selectas. This brings up a list. The second item is the manuscript. Click on the 2 at the beginning. This brings up the full entry. Look down the list and find Enlace externo with an icon beside it and instructions Enlace a texto original digitalizado. This is next but one to the bottom of the list. Below is the reference to something else. Click on that. That brings up another screen with a lot of Spanish on it about agreeing to their condition. Ignore all that. At the bottom in the blue strip you will see the same icon again and the instructions Presione aqui para ver which means press here to have a look. If you do that the first page of the manuscript should appear. Hope that helps. Monica I can't really explain it any more clearly. Most of it is clear whether you understand the Spanish or not. Where it says Escriba una palabra type in Cifras selectas. Campo de buscado = field to search Chose that. Palabro clave titlulo = title field. Chose that. Palabras adyacentes = adjacent words - Click on Si for yes. Then Buscar = search This brings up a list. No. 1 is Alejandro Vera's edition of it. No. 2 is the manuscript itself. Click on the No. 2 at the beginning. This brings up the full entry. At the bottom just above Biblioteca Campus Oriente you will find Enlace externo with an icon beside it and instructions Enlace a texto original digitalizado. Enlace externo means external link. Enlace a texto original digitalizado. means link to digital version of the original text. Click on the iconThat brings up another screen with a lot of Spanish on it about agreeing to their condition. Ignore all that. At the bottom in the blue strip you will see the same icon again and the instructions Presione aqui para ver which means press here to have a look. If you do that the first page of the manuscript should appear. Hope that helps. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
You are absolutely right - I didn't realize that you had to click on the 2 - and I am librarian! Monica - Original Message - From: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk; Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 9:25 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online I think I see the confusion with the library site... If you click the most obvious link (the title on the right) you don't see access to the PDF. You have to click the least obvious link -- the numeral 2 at the left. I thrashed over that for a good 20 minutes myself -- finally saw that clue after reviewing the thread a bit. It isn't immediately obvious, and those who are not familiar with academic library web listings can (one hopes) be excused for missing it. cud __ From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk To: Ed Durbrow edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 3:59 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online Yes - I've got a Dropbox and I was going to suggest that as the next option. It is a wonderful facility. Everyone should have one. It's a whole new way of working. Monica - Original Message - From: Ed Durbrow [1]edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp To: Monica Hall [2]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk; vl [3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2012 2:47 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online Thanks for the instructions Monica. Eloy Cruz was kind enough to send it to me by Dropbox. I have to say, I hope this scanning at high resolution is a trend that goes viral. Looking at this thing is almost like holding it. thanks, On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:06 AM, Monica Hall wrote: Try this... Where it says Escriba una palabra type in Cifras selectas. This brings up a list. The second item is the manuscript. Click on the 2 at the beginning. This brings up the full entry. Look down the list and find Enlace externo with an icon beside it and instructions Enlace a texto original digitalizado. This is next but one to the bottom of the list. Below is the reference to something else. Click on that. That brings up another screen with a lot of Spanish on it about agreeing to their condition. Ignore all that. At the bottom in the blue strip you will see the same icon again and the instructions Presione aqui para ver which means press here to have a look. If you do that the first page of the manuscript should appear. Hope that helps. Monica I can't really explain it any more clearly. Most of it is clear whether you understand the Spanish or not. Where it says Escriba una palabra type in Cifras selectas. Campo de buscado = field to search Chose that. Palabro clave titlulo = title field. Chose that. Palabras adyacentes = adjacent words - Click on Si for yes. Then Buscar = search This brings up a list. No. 1 is Alejandro Vera's edition of it. No. 2 is the manuscript itself. Click on the No. 2 at the beginning. This brings up the full entry. At the bottom just above Biblioteca Campus Oriente you will find Enlace externo with an icon beside it and instructions Enlace a texto original digitalizado. Enlace externo means external link. Enlace a texto original digitalizado. means link to digital version of the original text. Click on the iconThat brings up another screen with a lot of Spanish on it about agreeing to their condition. Ignore all that. At the bottom in the blue strip you will see the same icon again and the instructions Presione aqui para ver which means press here to have a look. If you do that the first page of the manuscript should appear. Hope that helps. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:edurb...@sea.plala.or.jp 2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
What a prolific person he was. Does any other guitarist have as much output specifically for B. guitar? On Jun 20, 2012, at 5:22 AM, WALSH STUART wrote: This new Murzia MS has lots of diferencias on familiar grounds and some passacalles and short pieces. I haven't looked through it that much but so far only the D minor Passacalle looks familiar. Seems like tons of new stuff. Looks like same scribe as Passacalles y Obras. As always with Murzia, it's tunesful and well written for the guitar. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
Thanks for the instructions Monica. Eloy Cruz was kind enough to send it to me by Dropbox. I have to say, I hope this scanning at high resolution is a trend that goes viral. Looking at this thing is almost like holding it. thanks, On Jun 17, 2012, at 1:06 AM, Monica Hall wrote: Try this... Where it says Escriba una palabra type in Cifras selectas. This brings up a list. The second item is the manuscript. Click on the 2 at the beginning. This brings up the full entry. Look down the list and find Enlace externo with an icon beside it and instructions Enlace a texto original digitalizado. This is next but one to the bottom of the list. Below is the reference to something else. Click on that. That brings up another screen with a lot of Spanish on it about agreeing to their condition. Ignore all that. At the bottom in the blue strip you will see the same icon again and the instructions Presione aqui para ver which means press here to have a look. If you do that the first page of the manuscript should appear. Hope that helps. Monica I can't really explain it any more clearly. Most of it is clear whether you understand the Spanish or not. Where it says Escriba una palabra type in Cifras selectas. Campo de buscado = field to search Chose that. Palabro clave titlulo = title field. Chose that. Palabras adyacentes = adjacent words - Click on Si for yes. Then Buscar = search This brings up a list. No. 1 is Alejandro Vera's edition of it. No. 2 is the manuscript itself. Click on the No. 2 at the beginning. This brings up the full entry. At the bottom just above Biblioteca Campus Oriente you will find Enlace externo with an icon beside it and instructions Enlace a texto original digitalizado. Enlace externo means external link. Enlace a texto original digitalizado. means link to digital version of the original text. Click on the iconThat brings up another screen with a lot of Spanish on it about agreeing to their condition. Ignore all that. At the bottom in the blue strip you will see the same icon again and the instructions Presione aqui para ver which means press here to have a look. If you do that the first page of the manuscript should appear. Hope that helps. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
Very tricky if you don't speak Spanish. Even with Google translate, I couldn't figure it out. I couldn't find any of the phrases you mentioned. On Jun 12, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Monica Hall wrote: It took me a good half hour to download it but it is a much better image that the published one - perfectly clear in fact. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
I just received this message. Those of you who are interested in Murcia will be pleased that a decent image of Cifras selectas is now available. It is with great pleasure that I inform you that the manuscript Cifras selectas de guitarra (1722) by Santiago de Murcia has recently been scanned and is now available in the web site of my university library. To access it you must enter the following link: http://aleph.uc.cl/F/-/?func=filefile_name=find-b Then you should write in the search box Cifras selectas de guitarra or some related term. Then click on the item (i.e.the number 2 which brings up the complete record) and, finally, in “Enlace a texto original digitalizado” (Link to scanned original text). In addition, the PDF includes a copy of the Resumen de acompañar la parte con la guitarra, bound with the manuscript. It took me a good half hour to download it but it is a much better image that the published one - perfectly clear in fact. Monica De: Monica Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk] Enviado el: lunes, 26 de septiembre de 2011 10:06 Para: ALEJANDRO PATRICIO VERA AGUILERA Asunto: Re: Cifras selectas again Dear Alejandro Many thanks for the article. It was interesting to read it again especially as a single article rather than two separate ones. In my dissertation I compared Ms.1560 with the other Murcia sorces in detail but I didn't conclude that it was copied by the same person! Perhaps the work of a student or someone who knew him! Best wishes Monica - Original Message - From: ALEJANDRO PATRICIO VERA AGUILERA ave...@uc.cl To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:59 PM Subject: RE: Cifras selectas again Dear Monica, Among your examples, I think the “h” and the upper case Greek “E” show the most striking resemblance. Nonetheless, the “y” and lower case “p” are always different. Additionally, in the tablature the number “5” is not same, and the quavers above the staff are slightly different. That’s why I think that Resumen and “Cifras” involved two different copyists, even if making an engraving is different from writing free-hand. Anyway, I share your opinion that there is not enough evidence to make definitive assertions on the point. Currently, my hypothesis is that Murcia’s manuscripts might have been copied by someone paid by him, but as you say, new information can discard or confirm it. I recall to have read in your dissertation that the hand in Ms. 1560 was similar to that in Murcia’s “Passacalles y obras”. When I compared the two sources, many years ago, the hand seemed different to me. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find my copy of Ms. 1560 to make the comparison again. But I hope to find it soon. I send you a PDF copy of my article for Roseta. Apart from the S and one or two other points, there is no new information in relation to Early Music articles and the “Cifras” edition. But I hope it achieves to present some topics from another perspective. Best wishes, Alejandro Vera De: Monica Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk] Enviado el: jueves, 15 de septiembre de 2011 12:12 Para: ALEJANDRO PATRICIO VERA AGUILERA Asunto: Re: Cifras selectas again Dear Alejandro Thank you for sparing the time to reply to my message. I have the same problem. Very few people in England have a scholarly interest in the baroque guitar. I am still interested in Murcia although at the moment I am concentrating on other parts of the repertoire. Murcia’s signature is not very helpful.There appears to be an “o” before the “g” and a double “tt” – “Santtiaog” with another “o” hanging from the “g”. It is done in a fancy way for effect. The M is similar to his signature to the Dedicatoria in Resumen. You say that Resumen’s copyist is not the same as that of the three manuscripts. Do you have proof that this is so? There is the extended written passage at the beginning of Cifras selectas to compare with the text in Resumen. Some of the very distinctive letters are the same in both sources. In the Dedicatoria to Resumen –the “h” and the little “d” in Haumadas –the large lower case “r” in ricos , recive – the large lower case “e” in execuciones , excepcion –upper case Greek “E” in Ecatombes all occur regularly in the introduction to Cifras selectas. Greek “Es” occur in one or two titles in Passacalles and Saldívar. Compare the first “E” in the Soneto in Resumen with the title Espanoletas in Saldívar. There are some differences but making an engraving is different from writing free-hand. It is done backwards and the letters are simplified. Guitarists and lutenists did do their own engraving – for example, Sanz and Corbetta and the lutenist Castaldi. A professional copyist could also have done the engraving. I don’t think his comment “salgan mis fatigas de la obscuridad de mis borradores a las ahumadas
[VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online
Fabulous! Thanks very much for this, Monica. Ralph - Original Message - From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Date: Tuesday, June 12, 2012 4:56 am Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Murcia - Cifras selectas online To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu I just received this message. Those of you who are interested in Murcia will be pleased that a decent image of Cifras selectas is now available. It is with great pleasure that I inform you that the manuscript Cifras selectas de guitarra (1722) by Santiago de Murcia has recently been scanned and is now available in the web site of my university library. To access it you must enter the following link: http://aleph.uc.cl/F/-/?func=filefile_name=find-b Then you should write in the search box Cifras selectas de guitarra or some related term. Then click on the item (i.e.the number 2 which brings up the complete record) and, finally, in Enlace a texto original digitalizado (Link to scanned original text). In addition, the PDF includes a copy of the Resumen de acompanar la parte con la guitarra, bound with the manuscript. It took me a good half hour to download it but it is a much better image that the published one - perfectly clear in fact. Monica De: Monica Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk] Enviado el: lunes, 26 de septiembre de 2011 10:06 Para: ALEJANDRO PATRICIO VERA AGUILERA Asunto: Re: Cifras selectas again Dear Alejandro Many thanks for the article. It was interesting to read it again especially as a single article rather than two separate ones. In my dissertation I compared Ms.1560 with the other Murcia sorces in detail but I didn't conclude that it was copied by the same person! Perhaps the work of a student or someone who knew him! Best wishes Monica - Original Message - From: ALEJANDRO PATRICIO VERA AGUILERA ave...@uc.cl To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Sent: Tuesday, September 20, 2011 5:59 PM Subject: RE: Cifras selectas again Dear Monica, Among your examples, I think the h and the upper case Greek E show the most striking resemblance. Nonetheless, the y and lower case p are always different. Additionally,in the tablature the number 5 is not same, and the quavers above the staff are slightly different. That's why I think that Resumen and Cifras involved two different copyists, even if making an engraving is different from writing free-hand. Anyway, I share your opinion that there is not enough evidence to make definitive assertions on the point. Currently, my hypothesis is that Murcia's manuscripts might have been copied by someone paid by him, but as you say, new information can discard or confirm it. I recall to have read in your dissertation that the hand in Ms. 1560 was similar to that in Murcia's Passacalles y obras. When I compared the two sources, many years ago, the hand seemed different to me. Unfortunately, I have not been able to find my copy of Ms. 1560 to make the comparison again. But I hope to find it soon. I send you a PDF copy of my article for Roseta. Apart from the S and one or two other points, there is no new information in relation to Early Music articles and the Cifras edition. But I hope it achieves to present some topics from another perspective. Best wishes, Alejandro Vera De: Monica Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk] Enviado el: jueves, 15 de septiembre de 2011 12:12 Para: ALEJANDRO PATRICIO VERA AGUILERA Asunto: Re: Cifras selectas again Dear Alejandro Thank you for sparing the time to reply to my message. I have the same problem. Very few people in England have a scholarly interest in the baroque guitar. I am still interested in Murcia although at the moment I am concentrating on other parts of the repertoire. Murcia's signature is not very helpful.There appears to be an o before the g and a double tt - Santtiaog with another o hanging from the g. It is done in a fancy way for effect. The M is similar to his signature to the Dedicatoria in Resumen. You say that Resumen's copyist is not the same as that of the three manuscripts. Do you have proof that this is so? There is the extended written passage at the beginning of Cifras selectas to compare with the text in Resumen. Some of the very distinctive letters are the same in both sources. In the Dedicatoria to Resumen -the h and the little d in Haumadas -the large lower case r
