Re: Upgrading to Vim 7.0 in Debian (was Re: :ha printouts - fontsize)
On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 09:10:21PM EDT, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 08:36:08PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: > >Just for the record: I tried installing "etch" about three months ago > >but the installer was unable to detect my PC card. I fooled him by going > > Ah, I can see where that might be a problem. I've never installed in > that manner - I install into stable, as you did, and once I'm up and > running with a minimal system I edit my /etc/apt/sources.list to testing > and do "apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade" which moves my whole > system up to testing. Once Debian is installed there is never (in my > experience) a reason to reinstall. > -- > Sounds like something I could try. The reason I tried to install testing directly is that I used to run RedHat. I freed up a 4G partition on my HD and did a chroot install of sarge - testing at the time.. so I could take my time evaluating debian while keeping my 'live' system (and switching from RH to debian and back via a swift Ctrl+Alt+F7/F8..) Now 18 months later the RH system is long gone and I'm a pretty satisfied user of debian. The reason I tried doing a new install instead of upgrading my current system was mainly that I wanted more space - the space freed up by former RH system - about 10G - and that I prefer to keep stuff like /var.. /tmp in separate partitions. So the current situation is that I have about 2/3 of my hard drive dedicated to a system that's half installed - the only useful part of it is the grub conf file :-) - and no time at all right now to revive this install. But thanks much for the reminder. I had read about this approach being the "debian way" of upgrading and I will keep it in mind. When I have the time I will try installing etch - see if they have fixed the installer - and if not try to install sarge and upgrade. Thanks, cga PS. Apologies to the list for the [OT].
Re: Upgrading to Vim 7.0 in Debian (was Re: :ha printouts - fontsize)
On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 08:36:08PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: >Just for the record: I tried installing "etch" about three months ago >but the installer was unable to detect my PC card. I fooled him by going Ah, I can see where that might be a problem. I've never installed in that manner - I install into stable, as you did, and once I'm up and running with a minimal system I edit my /etc/apt/sources.list to testing and do "apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade" which moves my whole system up to testing. Once Debian is installed there is never (in my experience) a reason to reinstall. -- yours, William
Re: Upgrading to Vim 7.0 in Debian (was Re: :ha printouts - fontsize)
On Wed, Jun 07, 2006 at 10:20:56AM EDT, William O'Higgins Witteman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 09:51:48PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: > > >> I will assume that you, as a relatively new Debian user, are running > >> stable (sarge). > > > >Yes. But the main reason is that I am a new Debian user on a laptop :-( > > I have taken the middle path with Debian, and use testing. This gives > me newer software with security updates, without the rapid change and > general wobbliness of unstable. > > I wanted vim 7.0 though, and I got it from unstable - it works fine, and > I have been doing this for new software for 5 years without anything > upsetting happening. Here's what I did to get vim 7.0: > > # vim /etc/apt/sources.list > :%s/testing/unstable/g > :wq > # apt-get update > # apt-get install vim-full > # vim /etc/apt/sources.list > :%s/unstable/testing/g > :wq > # apt-get update > > I don't mess with pinning or anything tricky - I just let some packages > get a head start. Eventually they are included and upgraded in testing, > and then my regular updates pick them up and move them forward. > > Something to note with this approach is that it will overwrite your vim > 6.4 installation. That was the result I wanted, and so I am > unconcerned - I know that I can simply do an "apt-get remove > vim-full;apt-get install vim-full" with my usual setup (with testing as > my version) and I'll be back at 6.4 in a trice, with all of my configs > where I expect them. > > Now, to be clear, this doesn't work if you are tracking stable for > getting vim 7.0 - it is a bit too far behind unstable. For a laptop > (for my laptop, actually) I recommend running testing, because you can > keep more up to date but you are not working your expensive machine too > much with custom compiling or package churn. > > I understand your reticence about doing things you don't understand, and I > am not trying to pressure you into upgrading your OS :-) I just want > you (and others who may read the archives or lurk) to know how I > overcame my conflict between a stable system and the latest and > greatest vim. > -- > > yours, > > William Thanks. Just for the record: I tried installing "etch" about three months ago but the installer was unable to detect my PC card. I fooled him by going back and forth in the menus, loading the relevant module manually and the first part of the installation completed successfully. But when I rebooted into the base system to complete the install - the second phase where you download whatever applications you plan to use - etch stubbornly refused to connect me. There was apparently a problem with DHCP - I was never able to obtain a lease. I spent about a month trying to get this to work and eventually abandoned the install. I just could not afford to spend more time with this. So I'll stick with stable for the foreseeable future.. maybe give it another shot some time later this year - see if the pcmcia-related problems have been fixed. Thanks, cga
Re: Upgrading to Vim 7.0 in Debian (was Re: :ha printouts - fontsize)
On Tue, Jun 06, 2006 at 09:51:48PM -0400, cga2000 wrote: >> I will assume that you, as a relatively new Debian user, are running >> stable (sarge). > >Yes. But the main reason is that I am a new Debian user on a laptop :-( I have taken the middle path with Debian, and use testing. This gives me newer software with security updates, without the rapid change and general wobbliness of unstable. I wanted vim 7.0 though, and I got it from unstable - it works fine, and I have been doing this for new software for 5 years without anything upsetting happening. Here's what I did to get vim 7.0: # vim /etc/apt/sources.list :%s/testing/unstable/g :wq # apt-get update # apt-get install vim-full # vim /etc/apt/sources.list :%s/unstable/testing/g :wq # apt-get update I don't mess with pinning or anything tricky - I just let some packages get a head start. Eventually they are included and upgraded in testing, and then my regular updates pick them up and move them forward. Something to note with this approach is that it will overwrite your vim 6.4 installation. That was the result I wanted, and so I am unconcerned - I know that I can simply do an "apt-get remove vim-full;apt-get install vim-full" with my usual setup (with testing as my version) and I'll be back at 6.4 in a trice, with all of my configs where I expect them. Now, to be clear, this doesn't work if you are tracking stable for getting vim 7.0 - it is a bit too far behind unstable. For a laptop (for my laptop, actually) I recommend running testing, because you can keep more up to date but you are not working your expensive machine too much with custom compiling or package churn. I understand your reticence about doing things you don't understand, and I am not trying to pressure you into upgrading your OS :-) I just want you (and others who may read the archives or lurk) to know how I overcame my conflict between a stable system and the latest and greatest vim. -- yours, William
Re: Upgrading to Vim 7.0 in Debian (was Re: :ha printouts - fontsize)
cga2000 wrote:
[...]
Very clear explanation. What I am worried about when doing this sort of
thing is that since I don't know the debian packaging system this may
have side-effects that will bite me at some point in the future. In
other words I do not understand the implications. Such as what happens
to my current vim 6.4 install? Obviously you would know how to handle
any problem that might crop up at some point in the future.. I wouldn't.
[...]
At the shell prompt (not from within Vim) type:
echo $VIMRUNTIME
If the answer (or lack of one) shows that it is undefined (the normal
case), then Vim 6.4 and Vim 7.0 can live peacefully together on your
system and not make each other fall head over heels. You just may want
to rename the Vim 6.4 in the $PATH (as shown by "ls -l `which vim`
`which gvim`", using the one that isn't a link to the other) to
something else (e.g. vim64) so it won't be overwritten (in
/usr/local/bin or wherever) when you install Vim 7.0. Thereafter, "vim"
or "gvim" (etc.) will invoke Vim 7.0 and use runtime files in $VIM/vim70
while "vim64" or "vim64 -g" (etc.) will invoke Vim 6.4 and use runtime
files in $VIM/vim64. Both will use the same ~/.vimrc, ~/.gvimrc, ~/.vim/
and $VIM/vimfiles/ (if present: normally they aren't unless you create
them) so if you use constructs there that are peculiar to Vim 7, you
should wrap them in an ":if" statement such as "if version >= 700", "if
exists('+tabline')", etc.
All this, of course, assuming that installing Vim 7.0 doesn't uninstall
Vim 6.4. If the installer is "polite", it should either leave the Vim
6.4 installation alone or ask you if you want to keep it or kill it. If
it isn't, the worse that should happen is that your Vim 6.4 gets
(cleanly) uninstalled, leaving your ~/.vimrc (etc.) unchanged. After you
install Vim 7.0, ":e $VIM" will show it to you: if there is a
subdirectory "vim64", and it is nonempty, then the 6.4 installation
wasn't removed.
Best regards,
Tony.
Re: Upgrading to Vim 7.0 in Debian (was Re: :ha printouts - fontsize)
On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 05:22:44PM EDT, Marvin Renich wrote: > * A.J.Mechelynck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060605 03:04]: > > cga2000 wrote: [..] > > Compiling is not hard, but there are already Debian packages with Vim > 7.0, so you can simply install them (they may not be quite as up-to-date > as the svn repo, but they should be very close ATM). > The default debian vim package is probably quite suitable. I encountered problems when I decided I couldn't live without a 256-color terminal. And I couldn't find a 256-color terminals available as a debian binary. > I will assume that you, as a relatively new Debian user, are running > stable (sarge). Yes. But the main reason is that I am a new Debian user on a laptop :-( I spent a couple of months trying to convince that I have a NIC - some 3Com PC card that's pretty much standard on 5-year old laptops and that sarge has no problems with.. I gave up.. > The vim 7.0 packages are in unstable, and were compiled > against a libc6 which is in testing, which complicates things just a > bit. > > There are two ways to attack this problem. The first is to download the > .deb files manually (from a web browser), and then install them with > dpkg. The second is to adjust your /etc/apt/sources.list to include > testing and unstable, then just use aptitude to do the work for you. > > First, the dpkg way: > > 1. Download the .deb file for vim (or vim-gtk, vim-perl, or whichever > variant you want). > > a. Browse to http://package.debian.org/vim (or vim-gtk...). This > will show the versions available in oldstable, stable, testing, > and unstable. > b. Click on unstable, which will take you to the page for that > version of vim. > c. Halfway down the page it says "Download vim" and has a table > with the different architectures. Click on your architecture > (perhaps i386 or amd64?). > d. This will bring you to a page with a list of mirrors. Click on > the mirror of your choice to download the .deb file. > > 2. Repeat step 1 for vim-common, vim-runtime, libc6, and libncurses5, > downloading all of the .deb files into the same directory. You can > use the version in testing for libc6 and libncurses5, I believe. > > 3. Type "dpkg -i" followed by the filenames of all of the downloaded > .deb files (all on one line). If I have not made any mistakes in > manually following dependencies, this will give you Vim 7.0. ;-) Very clear explanation. What I am worried about when doing this sort of thing is that since I don't know the debian packaging system this may have side-effects that will bite me at some point in the future. In other words I do not understand the implications. Such as what happens to my current vim 6.4 install? Obviously you would know how to handle any problem that might crop up at some point in the future.. I wouldn't. > > If you occasionally want newer versions of some packages, but want to > keep most packages from stable, you can add testing and unstable to > your sources.list file, but identify stable as your preferred > distribution: > > 1. Edit /etc/apt/apt.conf (this file may not yet exist). Add the > following line: > > APT::Default-Release "stable"; > > It is important to use stable rather than sarge, due to how apt > identifies which release a package is from. Also note the > semicolon at the end. > > 2. Edit /etc/apt/preferences (this file probably will not yet exist). > Add the following three lines (if there are already other entries, I > think you need a blank line between this group of three lines and any > other group of lines): > > Package: * Pin: release a=testing Pin-Priority: 700 > > The purpose of this entry in preferences is to make sure that if > you select a package from testing, it doesn't try to automatically > upgrade it to unstable the next time you run aptitude. > > 3. Edit /etc/apt/sources.list. Add the following lines, substituting > your favorite mirror for ftp.debian.org: > > deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free deb > http://ftp.debian.org/security etch/updates main contrib non-free > > deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free > > You can omit contrib and non-free if you wish. If you want to use > apt or aptitude to download source, duplicate each line, replacing > deb with deb-src. > > 4. Now run apt-get update or aptitude update or just run aptitude and > type u for update. It will download a whole bunch of new Packages > files. > > 5. Run aptitude (if you are not already there!) and navigate to vim > normally. Press enter to see the package info for vim (or vim-gtk, > etc.). At the bottom will be a list of available versions; select the > version you want (1:7.0-017+5) and press + to select it for > upgrade/install. The rest is normal aptitude usage. I've never used aptitude. I find the full-screen interface co
Upgrading to Vim 7.0 in Debian (was Re: :ha printouts - fontsize)
* A.J.Mechelynck <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [060605 03:04]: > cga2000 wrote: > [...] > >.. as I suspected. Some of the stuff I've read about v7.0 on this list > >rather made my mouth water.. but as a comparatively new user of debian > >upgrading vim is something I'm not prepared to do just now.. > >Thanks, > > > >cga > > > > > > > > Well, here I am a "comparatively new" user of SuSE Linux, and I found it > remarkably easy to compile > Vim 7 on it. If you decide you want to try your hand at it, subscribe to the > vim-dev list and ask > advice there, I'll answer if no one else jumps in before me. Also, some day I > should write a HowTo > page for Vim on Unix, similar to the one I already have for Vim on Windows, > and post it on my "Vim" > site http://users.skynet.be/antoine.mechelynck/vim/ > > > > Best regards, > Tony. Compiling is not hard, but there are already Debian packages with Vim 7.0, so you can simply install them (they may not be quite as up-to-date as the svn repo, but they should be very close ATM). I will assume that you, as a relatively new Debian user, are running stable (sarge). The vim 7.0 packages are in unstable, and were compiled against a libc6 which is in testing, which complicates things just a bit. There are two ways to attack this problem. The first is to download the .deb files manually (from a web browser), and then install them with dpkg. The second is to adjust your /etc/apt/sources.list to include testing and unstable, then just use aptitude to do the work for you. First, the dpkg way: 1. Download the .deb file for vim (or vim-gtk, vim-perl, or whichever variant you want). a. Browse to http://package.debian.org/vim (or vim-gtk...). This will show the versions available in oldstable, stable, testing, and unstable. b. Click on unstable, which will take you to the page for that version of vim. c. Halfway down the page it says "Download vim" and has a table with the different architectures. Click on your architecture (perhaps i386 or amd64?). d. This will bring you to a page with a list of mirrors. Click on the mirror of your choice to download the .deb file. 2. Repeat step 1 for vim-common, vim-runtime, libc6, and libncurses5, downloading all of the .deb files into the same directory. You can use the version in testing for libc6 and libncurses5, I believe. 3. Type "dpkg -i" followed by the filenames of all of the downloaded .deb files (all on one line). If I have not made any mistakes in manually following dependencies, this will give you Vim 7.0. ;-) If you occasionally want newer versions of some packages, but want to keep most packages from stable, you can add testing and unstable to your sources.list file, but identify stable as your preferred distribution: 1. Edit /etc/apt/apt.conf (this file may not yet exist). Add the following line: APT::Default-Release "stable"; It is important to use stable rather than sarge, due to how apt identifies which release a package is from. Also note the semicolon at the end. 2. Edit /etc/apt/preferences (this file probably will not yet exist). Add the following three lines (if there are already other entries, I think you need a blank line between this group of three lines and any other group of lines): Package: * Pin: release a=testing Pin-Priority: 700 The purpose of this entry in preferences is to make sure that if you select a package from testing, it doesn't try to automatically upgrade it to unstable the next time you run aptitude. 3. Edit /etc/apt/sources.list. Add the following lines, substituting your favorite mirror for ftp.debian.org: deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian etch main contrib non-free deb http://ftp.debian.org/security etch/updates main contrib non-free deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free You can omit contrib and non-free if you wish. If you want to use apt or aptitude to download source, duplicate each line, replacing deb with deb-src. 4. Now run apt-get update or aptitude update or just run aptitude and type u for update. It will download a whole bunch of new Packages files. 5. Run aptitude (if you are not already there!) and navigate to vim normally. Press enter to see the package info for vim (or vim-gtk, etc.). At the bottom will be a list of available versions; select the version you want (1:7.0-017+5) and press + to select it for upgrade/install. The rest is normal aptitude usage. If selecting vim for upgrade results in some broken dependencies, you may have to manually select some other packages for upgrade to fix the dependencies. If you are going to add testing and unstable to your sources.list, I highly recommend upgrading aptitude to the version in testing. This version of aptitude has some very nice enhancements that are well worth it. Not least of these enha
