Re: Scant GTK3 documentation

2016-08-21 Fir de Conversatie Kazunobu Kuriyama 
2016-08-11 20:12 GMT+09:00 Tony Mechelynck :

> On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 10:01 AM, Kazunobu Kuriyama
>  wrote:
> > Hi Tony,
> >
> > Thank you for all those checks!
>
> Thank _you_ for the explanations, they're a great help to my
> understanding of the new GUI.
> >
> > 2016-08-11 12:23 GMT+09:00 Tony Mechelynck  >:
> >>
> >> - GTK3 is supported, it is said, but there aren't a lot of details about
> >> it
> >> - It is only barely mentioned under ":help GTK3" in doc/gui_x11.txt
> >> - It is mentioned here and there in version8.txt, once at lines 137
> >> and 139, long below ":help new-8" and shortly before ":help
> >> new-vim-script-8", then here and there starting at patch 7.4.1402
> >> - It is nowhere mentioned in the possible configuration settings in
> >> the src/Makefile
> >
> >
> > All those, I'll see to it later.
> >
> >>
> >> - Contrary to what "configure -h" seems to imply, AFAICT the only way
> >> to build with GTK3 is to require it explicitly by --enable-gui=gtk3
> >
> >
> > That's because, when the GTK3 patch was included, there was an agreement
> (or
> > no objection, more precisely) that, when both gtk2 and gtk3 are
> available,
> > the GTK2 GUI shall be selected as default.
>
> Ah, OK
> >
> > Since I didn't think the current output of 'configure -h' caused a
> > confusion, I have little idea as to what caused that.  Do you have an
> > suggestion how we could improve that?
>
> I have no _coding_ suggestions. As a _documentation_ suggestion, maybe
> mention in more detail the priority of GUIs (when more than one are
> available for building) in the Makefile comments about CONF_OPT_GUI
> and in the "configure -h" text
> >
> >>
> >> - When both GTK2 and GTK3 are present in the system,
> >> disable-gtk2-check --enable-gtk3-check builds a Vim with no GUI
> >
> >
> > Oh, I didn't try those combination.  I'd rather like to know why those
> > --(enable|disable)-*-check options were introduced.  It looks
> --enable-gui=
> > is enough...  For the sake of completeness of the autodetection
> mechanism,
> > maybe?
> >
> >>
> >> - In the same configuration, just «export
> >> CONF_OPT_GUI='enable-gnome-check'» (without the French quotes) gives a
> >> GTK2 GUI; GTK3 is not looked for.
> >> - When --enable-gui=gtk3 is present, then AFAICT --enable-gnome-check
> >> has no effect. (Maybe I don't have the right packages installed.)
> >
> >
> > Please note that the GTK3 GUI is completely independent of the Gnome 2
> > stuff.  This is because that stuff has been deprecated since the very
> early
> > version of Gnome 3 was released and was once said it would soon go away,
> I
> > intentionally wrote the patch in such a way that the GUI doesn't rely on
> > that.
> >
> > Accordingly, the both cases look fine to me: If --enable-gnome-check is
> > selected, it's natural for us to conclude that the user wants the GTK2
> GUI,
> > and if --enable-gui=3 is selected, the user don't want the Gnome stuff.
> >
> > Still, if you find there's room for improvement, please let me know.
>
> Here too, I would suggest "documentation improvements": let's say,
> mention that the Gnome interface to Vim is removed starting with GTK3,
> in the "build documentation" in src/Makefile and configure -h as
> above, and maybe also somewhere under "help GNOME" in the ordinary Vim
> help.
>

Hi Tony,

Thank you for the helpful suggestions.  Based on them, I made a patch to
improve the documentation, which is attached to this mail.

One thing I could not fulfill was to improve the output of 'configure -h'.

Instead, I made gui_x11.txt, in particular the section gui-x11-compiling,
up to date so that users can refer to that in case they are confused with
the output of 'configure -h'.

Hopefully, that could be a good compensation for my unfulfilled job :)


Hi Bram,

Please note that the patch contains changes in src/Makefile which are
usually not considered as part of a runtime update.  If you find it
appropriate to separate the changes from runtime ones, please let me know.
I'll see to it.


Best regards,
Kazunobu


>
> Best regards,
> Tony
>

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x11_gtk_doc.patch
Description: Binary data

Re: Scant GTK3 documentation

2016-08-11 Fir de Conversatie Tony Mechelynck 
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 10:01 AM, Kazunobu Kuriyama
 wrote:
> Hi Tony,
>
> Thank you for all those checks!

Thank _you_ for the explanations, they're a great help to my
understanding of the new GUI.
>
> 2016-08-11 12:23 GMT+09:00 Tony Mechelynck :
>>
>> - GTK3 is supported, it is said, but there aren't a lot of details about
>> it
>> - It is only barely mentioned under ":help GTK3" in doc/gui_x11.txt
>> - It is mentioned here and there in version8.txt, once at lines 137
>> and 139, long below ":help new-8" and shortly before ":help
>> new-vim-script-8", then here and there starting at patch 7.4.1402
>> - It is nowhere mentioned in the possible configuration settings in
>> the src/Makefile
>
>
> All those, I'll see to it later.
>
>>
>> - Contrary to what "configure -h" seems to imply, AFAICT the only way
>> to build with GTK3 is to require it explicitly by --enable-gui=gtk3
>
>
> That's because, when the GTK3 patch was included, there was an agreement (or
> no objection, more precisely) that, when both gtk2 and gtk3 are available,
> the GTK2 GUI shall be selected as default.

Ah, OK
>
> Since I didn't think the current output of 'configure -h' caused a
> confusion, I have little idea as to what caused that.  Do you have an
> suggestion how we could improve that?

I have no _coding_ suggestions. As a _documentation_ suggestion, maybe
mention in more detail the priority of GUIs (when more than one are
available for building) in the Makefile comments about CONF_OPT_GUI
and in the "configure -h" text
>
>>
>> - When both GTK2 and GTK3 are present in the system,
>> disable-gtk2-check --enable-gtk3-check builds a Vim with no GUI
>
>
> Oh, I didn't try those combination.  I'd rather like to know why those
> --(enable|disable)-*-check options were introduced.  It looks --enable-gui=
> is enough...  For the sake of completeness of the autodetection mechanism,
> maybe?
>
>>
>> - In the same configuration, just «export
>> CONF_OPT_GUI='enable-gnome-check'» (without the French quotes) gives a
>> GTK2 GUI; GTK3 is not looked for.
>> - When --enable-gui=gtk3 is present, then AFAICT --enable-gnome-check
>> has no effect. (Maybe I don't have the right packages installed.)
>
>
> Please note that the GTK3 GUI is completely independent of the Gnome 2
> stuff.  This is because that stuff has been deprecated since the very early
> version of Gnome 3 was released and was once said it would soon go away, I
> intentionally wrote the patch in such a way that the GUI doesn't rely on
> that.
>
> Accordingly, the both cases look fine to me: If --enable-gnome-check is
> selected, it's natural for us to conclude that the user wants the GTK2 GUI,
> and if --enable-gui=3 is selected, the user don't want the Gnome stuff.
>
> Still, if you find there's room for improvement, please let me know.

Here too, I would suggest "documentation improvements": let's say,
mention that the Gnome interface to Vim is removed starting with GTK3,
in the "build documentation" in src/Makefile and configure -h as
above, and maybe also somewhere under "help GNOME" in the ordinary Vim
help.


Best regards,
Tony

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Re: Scant GTK3 documentation

2016-08-11 Fir de Conversatie Kazunobu Kuriyama 
Hi Tony,

Thank you for all those checks!

2016-08-11 12:23 GMT+09:00 Tony Mechelynck :

> - GTK3 is supported, it is said, but there aren't a lot of details about it
> - It is only barely mentioned under ":help GTK3" in doc/gui_x11.txt
> - It is mentioned here and there in version8.txt, once at lines 137
> and 139, long below ":help new-8" and shortly before ":help
> new-vim-script-8", then here and there starting at patch 7.4.1402
> - It is nowhere mentioned in the possible configuration settings in
> the src/Makefile
>

All those, I'll see to it later.


> - Contrary to what "configure -h" seems to imply, AFAICT the only way
> to build with GTK3 is to require it explicitly by --enable-gui=gtk3
>

That's because, when the GTK3 patch was included, there was an agreement
(or no objection, more precisely) that, when both gtk2 and gtk3 are
available, the GTK2 GUI shall be selected as default.

Since I didn't think the current output of 'configure -h' caused a
confusion, I have little idea as to what caused that.  Do you have an
suggestion how we could improve that?


> - When both GTK2 and GTK3 are present in the system,
> disable-gtk2-check --enable-gtk3-check builds a Vim with no GUI
>

Oh, I didn't try those combination.  I'd rather like to know why those
--(enable|disable)-*-check options were introduced.  It looks --enable-gui=
is enough...  For the sake of completeness of the autodetection mechanism,
maybe?


> - In the same configuration, just «export
> CONF_OPT_GUI='enable-gnome-check'» (without the French quotes) gives a
> GTK2 GUI; GTK3 is not looked for.
> - When --enable-gui=gtk3 is present, then AFAICT --enable-gnome-check
> has no effect. (Maybe I don't have the right packages installed.)
>

Please note that the GTK3 GUI is completely independent of the Gnome 2
stuff.  This is because that stuff has been deprecated since the very early
version of Gnome 3 was released and was once said it would soon go away, I
intentionally wrote the patch in such a way that the GUI doesn't rely on
that.

Accordingly, the both cases look fine to me: If --enable-gnome-check is
selected, it's natural for us to conclude that the user wants the GTK2 GUI,
and if --enable-gui=3 is selected, the user don't want the Gnome stuff.

Still, if you find there's room for improvement, please let me know.

Best regards,
Kazunobu


> For the record, I'm on openSUSE 42.1 x86_64 and this is my first (but
> successful) attempt at building with GTK3: before, I used GTK2 with
> Gnome.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Tony.
>
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Scant GTK3 documentation

2016-08-10 Fir de Conversatie Tony Mechelynck 
- GTK3 is supported, it is said, but there aren't a lot of details about it
- It is only barely mentioned under ":help GTK3" in doc/gui_x11.txt
- It is mentioned here and there in version8.txt, once at lines 137
and 139, long below ":help new-8" and shortly before ":help
new-vim-script-8", then here and there starting at patch 7.4.1402
- It is nowhere mentioned in the possible configuration settings in
the src/Makefile
- Contrary to what "configure -h" seems to imply, AFAICT the only way
to build with GTK3 is to require it explicitly by --enable-gui=gtk3
- When both GTK2 and GTK3 are present in the system,
disable-gtk2-check --enable-gtk3-check builds a Vim with no GUI
- In the same configuration, just «export
CONF_OPT_GUI='enable-gnome-check'» (without the French quotes) gives a
GTK2 GUI; GTK3 is not looked for.
- When --enable-gui=gtk3 is present, then AFAICT --enable-gnome-check
has no effect. (Maybe I don't have the right packages installed.)

For the record, I'm on openSUSE 42.1 x86_64 and this is my first (but
successful) attempt at building with GTK3: before, I used GTK2 with
Gnome.


Best regards,
Tony.

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