benchmarks Re: Upgrade cards
--- Mark Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well turning off both the PowerCache and PowerMath options drops FPU performance from 0.381 to 0.280 average (1 = Quadra 605). I think that shows a difference - don't you? That's a 33% speed drop in FPU processes. What about the CPU performance? With PowerCache off it should be running on the logic board's CPU and FPU. Try the test with just PowerCache on. Does the boot process jump in speed when the Power Central CP loads when you have both switches Off? If it doesn't then the accelerator is disabled and you're using it as just a 32K cache card. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: benchmarks Re: Upgrade cards
On Saturday, April 13, 2002, at 08:52 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: --- Mark Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well turning off both the PowerCache and PowerMath options drops FPU performance from 0.381 to 0.280 average (1 = Quadra 605). I think that shows a difference - don't you? That's a 33% speed drop in FPU processes. What about the CPU performance? With PowerCache off it should be running on the logic board's CPU and FPU. Try the test with just PowerCache on. Not likely considering I took the original 030 off to put the upgrade board on :) Just to make it absolutely clear for the fifth time so everyone knows, this PowerCache card is a CPU socket upgrade *not* a PDS expansion card (that has an Asante LAN card in it), remember this is an SE/30, not a IIci. As I stated in the last results post (may not have been clear), leaving the PowerCache switch ON and the toggling the PowerMath switch (rebooting in between) makes *no difference* to the FPU performance. I presume, seeing as it's a CPU replacement board the PowerCache switch turns off the other board funtions (50MHz FPU, 32k Cache etc.) and runs with the on-board FPU and the 50MHz 030. Does the boot process jump in speed when the Power Central CP loads when you have both switches Off? It doesn't jump in speed ever because the machine can't swap for the 16MHz to the 50MHz CPU, the 16MHz CPU is in a box under my bed 300 miles away ;). If it doesn't then the accelerator is disabled and you're using it as just a 32K cache card. As I say it more likely shuts off all the functions and just uses the 50MHz CPU and the 16MHz FPU, hence the drop in FPU performance. I think that all proves the FPU on a PowerCache card is better than the on board FPU (or the FPU emulation on a non-FPU machine). As for SANE calls I don't know unless I can locate a SANE specific benchmark or something that specifically allows SANE to be analysed. Would TechTool 2 do it? -- Mark Benson Vintage Macs List Nanny aka silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger) SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger) Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at: http://fpm.gotdns.com Macintosh LC central i was Born in England -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: benchmarks Re: Upgrade cards
As I say it more likely shuts off all the functions and just uses the 50MHz CPU and the 16MHz FPU, hence the drop in FPU performance. A 50mhz cpu and a 16 mhz fpu can run together? -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: benchmarks Re: Upgrade cards
--- Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As I say it more likely shuts off all the functions and just uses the 50MHz CPU and the 16MHz FPU, hence the drop in FPU performance. A 50mhz cpu and a 16 mhz fpu can run together? Yes, when one is on an accelerator card. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
Well turning off both the PowerCache and PowerMath options drops FPU performance from 0.381 to 0.280 average (1 = Quadra 605). I think that shows a difference - don't you? That's a 33% speed drop in FPU processes. -- Mark Benson Vintage Macs List Nanny aka silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger) SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger) Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at: http://fpm.gotdns.com Macintosh LC central i was Born in England -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 07:03 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: You must have the Power Central CP installed and the switch on the CP ON for the PowerCache card to work. The PowerMath switch redirects SANE calls to the FPU on the PowerCache or to the Mac's FPU (if it has one) if the PowerCache does not have an FPU on it. Right, both the SE/30 and the PowerCache card have FPUs IIRC. Will it make any difference switching between the two? Watch when your extentions load, after the Power Central CP loads the rest should load visibly faster. Oh, I didn't think the FPU was anything to do with the OS Confused What speed is your PowerCache? The 40 or 50Mhz one is very nice for speed. I wouldn't bother with a 25 or 33Mhz 030 PowerCache, not enough boost for the buck. It's a 50MHz 030 CPU socket board with, IIRC, a 68882 FPU on-board and a bit of cache. I ia quite a large board as it has cache chips, CPU, 25MHz oscillator and other extraneous items. It also get kinda hot but the fan is enough to keep the temperature at the right level. I got an SE/30 with it in (dodgy socket replacement job and all) from a friend in exchange for a PC TV Card. The logic board died but I transplanted it to a spare I had. -- Mark Benson Vintage Macs List Nanny aka silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger) SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger) Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at: http://fpm.gotdns.com Macintosh LC central i was Born in England -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
At 13:06 +0100 on 11/04/02, Mark Benson wrote: On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 07:03 AM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: You must have the Power Central CP installed and the switch on the CP ON for the PowerCache card to work. The PowerMath switch redirects SANE calls to the FPU on the PowerCache or to the Mac's FPU (if it has one) if the PowerCache does not have an FPU on it. Right, both the SE/30 and the PowerCache card have FPUs IIRC. Will it make any difference switching between the two? Well, with the PowerCache FPU running at 50MHz and the onboard FPU running at 16MHz, you'd think so... the pickle FAQ http://macfaq.org/index.shtml Software Archive ftp://download:[EMAIL PROTECTED]//Users/thepickl/Sites/Archive/ _ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 02:05 PM, the pickle wrote: Well, with the PowerCache FPU running at 50MHz and the onboard FPU running at 16MHz, you'd think so... Gee, yeh, I forgot about the clock speed :). Anyone got a good FPU benchmark for the SE/30? -- Mark Benson Vintage Macs List Nanny aka silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger) SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger) Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at: http://fpm.gotdns.com Macintosh LC central i was Born in England -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
At 14:25 +0100 on 11/04/02, Mark Benson wrote: On Thursday, April 11, 2002, at 02:05 PM, the pickle wrote: Well, with the PowerCache FPU running at 50MHz and the onboard FPU running at 16MHz, you'd think so... Gee, yeh, I forgot about the clock speed :). Anyone got a good FPU benchmark for the SE/30? Speedometer works quite nicely for what I usually need. the pickle FAQ http://macfaq.org/index.shtml Software Archive ftp://download:[EMAIL PROTECTED]//Users/thepickl/Sites/Archive/ _ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
Speedometer turns up virtually the same number for both on and off PowerMath settings. Either it doesn't make any difference or it is not supported on my card. -- Mark Benson Vintage Macs List Nanny aka silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger) SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger) Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at: http://fpm.gotdns.com Macintosh LC central i was Born in England -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
--- Mark Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right, both the SE/30 and the PowerCache card have FPUs IIRC. Will it make any difference switching between the two? The two are functionally identical. Watch when your extentions load, after the Power Central CP loads the rest should load visibly faster. Oh, I didn't think the FPU was anything to do with the OS Confused The control panel has two switches, one enables the faster CPU and FPU, the other isn't needed to be On for the accelerator to work but may give a speed boost in applications that use SANE (I forget what the acronym means) math calls. When the control panel loads during boot it switches over to the accelerator so the rest of booting and all subsequent operations are running on the accelerator's chips. The DayStar 601 upgrades do not need the control panel to load at boot to work. It can be run like an application to switch between the 68k and 601, which requires rebooting. It sets something in the PRAM so the 601 is active the instant you hit the power button. Zap the PRAM and you're back to 68k mode. Apple's 601 upgrade control panel will not switch from 030 to 601 mode, but it will switch from 601 to 030! It was written for 040 Macs with the *Apple* 601 upgrade, where it will switch both ways and will work with the DayStar PowerCard or PowerPro. It's a 50MHz 030 CPU socket board with, IIRC, a 68882 FPU on-board and a bit of cache. 32K of L2 cache and 50Mhz should really rip along, especially if you're running System 7.1. :) = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
--- Mark Benson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Speedometer turns up virtually the same number for both on and off PowerMath settings. Either it doesn't make any difference or it is not supported on my card. Or Speedometer is testing the FPU directly for floating point math and the CPU directly on integer math and not doing any SANE stuff. Here's what I found in a search on SANE. http://www.awiedemann.de/compiler/lib2.html Pop SANE into the search here http://developer.apple.com/technotes/os/os_510.html and you'll get 144 hits, the titles and summaries of the ones on the first page don't look like any of them expand the acronym. :P = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
At 22:05 -0700 on 11/04/02, Gregg Eshelman wrote: Pop SANE into the search here http://developer.apple.com/technotes/os/os_510.html and you'll get 144 hits, the titles and summaries of the ones on the first page don't look like any of them expand the acronym. :P Standard Apple Numerical Environment, IIRC. the pickle FAQ http://macfaq.org/index.shtml Software Archive ftp://download:[EMAIL PROTECTED]//Users/thepickl/Sites/Archive/ _ -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
Here's what I found in a search on SANE. http://www.awiedemann.de/compiler/lib2.html Pop SANE into the search here http://developer.apple.com/technotes/os/os_510.html and you'll get 144 hits, the titles and summaries of the ones on the first page don't look like any of them expand the acronym. :P SANE == Standard Apple Numeric Enviroment Apple defined this to guarantee identical behaviour of floating point math not matter if a FPU is present or not. Radius had an extension (named IIRC radiusmath) that bypasses SANE and directly accesses the FPU to speed up things a bit. Dirk -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: Upgrade cards
On Wednesday, April 10, 2002, at 10:00 PM, Gregg Eshelman wrote: Something else to test. Use the Power Central CP for the 030 PowerCache and see if using just the PowerMath switch does anything for integer and floating point benchmarks. Supposedly that setting redirects all SANE math calls from the CPU to the FPU, using the Mac's onboard FPU if it has one and the PowerCache card doesn't. Errrm I have a PowerCache card in my SE/30 but it has an FPU on it. Does this count? I have the CP for it, does it enable the upgrade cache like PCI PPC upgrades because it seems to be a smidge faster with the CP installed, might just be me. -- Mark Benson Vintage Macs List Nanny aka silicon_valley_pirate_uk (Yahoo! Messenger) SilValleyPirate (AOL Instant Messenger) Visit Flat Pack Macs Online at: http://fpm.gotdns.com Macintosh LC central i was Born in England -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
