Braille Sluggishness, Was Re: Any other way of Reorganizing what's in the Rotor?

[Teresa Cochran]

I don't use both Braille and speech at the same time when doing extensive 
reading. I use one or the other, so I don't know how to answer that question. 
Did you try rebooting your device to see if the sluggishness goes away?

Teresa

"We can see with the eyes, but we see with the brain as well, and seeing with 
the brain is often called imagination."--Oliver Sacks

> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:21 PM, Flor Lynch  wrote:
> 
> I'm wondering why my Focus14 braille display's ability to  move by panning 
> down and up the screen slowed down in the last few days. Ok, I may have 
> increased VO's speaking rate slightly. Undoing other things I did around that 
> time seemed to have no effect. Maybe at a certain  point, when speech is 
> quite fast, you should mute it if you want to navigate with the display at 
> your usual speed?. 
>  
> - Original Message -
> From: Teresa Cochran
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 5:54 AM
> Subject: Re: Any other way of Reorganizing what's in the Rotor?
> 
> There really isn't a way to use Braille display commands in the rotor, except 
> for dots 5-6-chord to move to the next rotor category, dots 2-3-chord for 
> previous, and dots 6-chord and 3-chord to move to next a same rotor item.  
> The Braille input rotor item is for on-screen Braille commands. If you turn 
> quick-nav on with a bluetooth keyboard, you can use Braille commands in 
> Safari, such as h for headings and f for form fields. The QuickNav Braille 
> command toggle is broken for now.
> 
> Hth,
> Teresa 
> 
> "We can see with the eyes, but we see with the brain as well, and seeing with 
> the brain is often called imagination."--Oliver Sacks
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Flor Lynch  wrote:
>> 
>> Since it appears that nnobody knows of any other way of organizing setting 
>> in the Rotor, other than via Settings General Accessibility VoiceOver Rotor: 
>> I'll now ask, what are the bbest braille screen navigation settings that one 
>> can set, using the Rotor? (By "Braille navigation settings, I mean those 
>> that you'd use (or prefer to use) if you have a braille display with iOS. 
>> (Good and all as it is, It'd be better if Apple treated braille as equal to 
>> speech rather than being subservient to speech. E.g., when speech 
>> punctuation is set to All Punctuation, a braille reader then reads the words 
>> comma dash period etc in full, instead of in natural format.)
>> 
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Flor Lynch" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 3:31 AM
>> Subject: Any other way of Reorganizing what's in the Rotor?
>> 
>> 
>> Hi,
>> First question is, is there any other way than the Rotor Reorder buttons
>> in Settings | General | Accessibility | VoiceOver | Rotor?, to
>> reorganize items in the rotor? (Incidentally, it's possible to remove
>> the Braille Input Mode change from the rotor, and I did just that,
>> attempting to get to the bottom os sluggish navigation that has started
>> to happen recently on my Focus14 BT display.) I also believe I may have
>> found what the Containers settting means. But I'm looking for an easier
>> alternative way or place to switch, or restore, Rotor items, if such
>> exists.
>> 
>> The double-tap-and-hold, then drag, scenario - turns into a wee bit of a
>> drag.
>> 
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RE: Shift In 8.1.1

[Sieghard Weitzel]

Hi Gary,

 

I don’t see this at all. Double tapping shift capitalizes the next letter for 
me, triple tapping turns caps lock on and a double tap turns it off again. 
Maybe see if turning off your phone for 30 seconds and turning it back on will 
resolve this.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Gary Petraccaro
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:47 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Shift In 8.1.1

 

I'm seeing a bug with the shift key in touch typing.  I think that's what it's 
called.  When I tripple tap the shift key, it goes to typing uppercase.  Either 
tripple tapping or double tapping does not bring back lowercase.  Likewise, if 
I doubletap the shift, it goes to uppercase, but after typing an uppercase 
letter, it does not revert to lowercase.

Anybody else seeing this?

 

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Re: Shift In 8.1.1

[Richard Turner]

Hi,
if you are using touch typing, after triple tapping on the shift key, to take 
it off caps lock, just touch and release the shift.
To capitalize one letter, just touch and release the shift key, type your 
letter and the next letter will be lower case.
HTH,
Richard


Reality is the leading cause of stress for those who are in touch with it.

Jane Wagner, from In Search of Intelligent Life in the Universe



Sent from my iPhone 5S



> On Nov 27, 2014, at 6:46 PM, Gary Petraccaro  wrote:
> 
> I'm seeing a bug with the shift key in touch typing.  I think that's what 
> it's called.  When I tripple tap the shift key, it goes to typing uppercase.  
> Either tripple tapping or double tapping does not bring back lowercase.  
> Likewise, if I doubletap the shift, it goes to uppercase, but after typing an 
> uppercase letter, it does not revert to lowercase.
> Anybody else seeing this?
>  
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Questions about iCloud and my iPhone 4.

[Kevin Minor]

Hi.

 

I know, I need to upgrade, but the phone does what I need, and as for money,
as they say, "You can't get blood from a turnip."

 

I have several questions about iCloud.  First, I have set up an iCloud
account.  Since I set up the account, I changed email addresses, and I
updated my Apple ID.  Does this go for my iCloud ID as well?  If so, how do
I change it on my iPhone?  Every so often, when I unlock my iPhone I am
prompted to log into my iCloud account.  I don't see where to change the
user ID, so I cancel it.

 

As for the iCloud account, how do I back up my iPhone?  If the time comes
when I can get a newer iPhone, I'd like to be able to get all my stuff from
the old iPhone and put it on the new one.  How do I back up my old phone,
and How do I get the backup onto the new one?

 

That's all I can think of to ask.  Thanks in advance for the help, and happy
start of the holiday season.

 

Kevin Minor, Lexington, KY

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Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Gary Petraccaro]

Plus, you can put Linux on that PC.  And there's K1000 and GWMicro.

- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Chaltain" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with 
IOs 8.1.1



I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple
products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM
and Apple created the smart phone market in the US.

I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other
technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my
house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS
supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S.
Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of
another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my
PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen
reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should
define the entire Windows ecosystem.

I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to
IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but
iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a
sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to
upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a
supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the
top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs
to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as
more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development
and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration
needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility,
they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they
can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community
is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on
accessibility.

On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote:

Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first
to encounter arrows!

That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on
other lists of course)!

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off
their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM
Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with
IOs 8.1.1


Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows.  Always, when a new
operating system is introduced, keep this in mind.

---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
finished,
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" 
might

be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming
until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough 
to

see iOS 40.???!

The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has
been quite frustrating.  Prudence dictates that I (and other blind
individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS
versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution.

That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing
technology platforms.  I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to
maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that
seemingly completely disregards the customer investment  - yes indeed, I 
am

referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to
retain JAWS.  I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the
accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike 
Pablo
I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right."  I intend to buy 
a

Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific
because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about
protecting their customers' investments.

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off 
their

guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales"

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for
apple.
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the
accessibility, something th

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Gary Petraccaro]

I have not been following your iPhone problems, so please answer one 
question for me.  Did you ever exchange your phone for another unit or is 
this the same phone which has been giving you problems?


- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the 
list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, 
even me.
I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, 
regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of 
apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we 
stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 
6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look 
IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the 
quality is lower, and lower, and lower.

Why is it happening?
Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs 
quality.
A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good 
job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't 
see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because 
there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with 
whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality.
My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, 
then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but 
been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything.

I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages.
Pablo tired of IOs bugs.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of RobH.

Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

I think he means, he usually means:-

if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real
purpose on the list.   There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a
few falling over them,  that at least was useful.
He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented
so far.

I think that about summarises it,  hope I don't go getting flack for saying
so.

Rh.

- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple.
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email
list. What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had,
and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people
saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like
he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that
I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs
7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is
happy  with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about
accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government,
talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose
your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of
that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with
freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs,
and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or
any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent:

Shift In 8.1.1

[Gary Petraccaro]

I'm seeing a bug with the shift key in touch typing.  I think that's what it's 
called.  When I tripple tap the shift key, it goes to typing uppercase.  Either 
tripple tapping or double tapping does not bring back lowercase.  Likewise, if 
I doubletap the shift, it goes to uppercase, but after typing an uppercase 
letter, it does not revert to lowercase.
Anybody else seeing this?

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RE: App for storing text files

[Beverly Wieland]

Sieghard,

I have not thought of using dropbox for storing my files.  I don't even 
have an account, but have received invitations to view files others have 
stored.  I will set up an account and try it out.  I like the idea that I 
can download the files from my computer and access them on my iPhone.
Text files should take up very little space compared to pictures and 
videos.


Thanks so much for the suggestion!
Beverly

Re: Really Low Voice Over Volume On Phone Calls

[Arnold Schmidt]

Thanks, turning audio ducking back on fixed it.  I think, in my case, I will 
leave it on, and turn it off when I want to, rather than turning it on before a 
phone call.  Because, if I get a call and need to interact with it, I can't 
hear Voice Over with audio ducking turned off.  This is very unfortunate, and 
will prompt my first email to 
accessibil...@apple.com
being that I like turning audio ducking off better than I ever thought I would.

Arnold Schmidt
  - Original Message - 
  From: Alex Hall 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:49 PM
  Subject: Re: Really Low Voice Over Volume On Phone Calls


  I haven't tested this, but someone said that enabling audio ducking helps a 
lot. Put that in your rotor, and enable it right before a phone call if you 
normally keep it disabled.

On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:45 PM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:


This started happening a few days ago, and is getting worse.  Even with the 
voice over volume at 100 percent, it is hard to hear voice over when on a phone 
call, whether using the speaker, or my ear pods. It is a little better over my 
bluetooth headset, but not much.  I did the reset all settings this afternoon, 
and it fixed it, but it already is going in the wrong direction.  I am using 
8.1.1, on an iPhone 5.  Any ideas?  Thanks for any opinions.

Arnold Schmidt 


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  --
  Have a great day,
  Alex Hall
  mehg...@icloud.com



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Re: Really Low Voice Over Volume On Phone Calls

[David Chittenden]

Yes, this is correct. Audio ducking is the process by which VoiceOver volume is 
raised and other volume is lowered. It is a new setting in iOS 8, and it 
confused me for a couple weeks before I figured out why I was no longer hearing 
VO very well. 

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 28 Nov 2014, at 15:49, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I haven't tested this, but someone said that enabling audio ducking helps a 
> lot. Put that in your rotor, and enable it right before a phone call if you 
> normally keep it disabled.
>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:45 PM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
>> 
>> This started happening a few days ago, and is getting worse.  Even with the 
>> voice over volume at 100 percent, it is hard to hear voice over when on a 
>> phone call, whether using the speaker, or my ear pods. It is a little better 
>> over my bluetooth headset, but not much.  I did the reset all settings this 
>> afternoon, and it fixed it, but it already is going in the wrong direction.  
>> I am using 8.1.1, on an iPhone 5.  Any ideas?  Thanks for any opinions.
>>  
>> Arnold Schmidt 
>> 
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Re: Really Low Voice Over Volume On Phone Calls

[Alex Hall]

I haven't tested this, but someone said that enabling audio ducking helps a 
lot. Put that in your rotor, and enable it right before a phone call if you 
normally keep it disabled.
> On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:45 PM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> This started happening a few days ago, and is getting worse.  Even with the 
> voice over volume at 100 percent, it is hard to hear voice over when on a 
> phone call, whether using the speaker, or my ear pods. It is a little better 
> over my bluetooth headset, but not much.  I did the reset all settings this 
> afternoon, and it fixed it, but it already is going in the wrong direction.  
> I am using 8.1.1, on an iPhone 5.  Any ideas?  Thanks for any opinions.
>  
> Arnold Schmidt 
> 
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Really Low Voice Over Volume On Phone Calls

[Arnold Schmidt]

This started happening a few days ago, and is getting worse.  Even with the 
voice over volume at 100 percent, it is hard to hear voice over when on a phone 
call, whether using the speaker, or my ear pods. It is a little better over my 
bluetooth headset, but not much.  I did the reset all settings this afternoon, 
and it fixed it, but it already is going in the wrong direction.  I am using 
8.1.1, on an iPhone 5.  Any ideas?  Thanks for any opinions.

Arnold Schmidt 

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Re: difference between touch typing and direct touch typing

[Hank Smith, and Seeing-eye dog Iona]

on the direct touch typing it also appears that you can move your finger 
around the screen and it speaks everything that is on your screen when u 
move your finger around it will speak what your finger is over

simular to what android explore by touch does.
just something I observed


On 11/27/2014 9:49 AM, Christopher Chaltain wrote:
Also with touch typing, even if you land right on top of the character 
you want to enter, you still need to wait a beat before the character 
is entered. This is so if you land on the wrong character you have a 
chance to move around and find the right character before lifting your 
finger. With touch typing, try just touching a character very quickly 
and lifting your finger. You'll see that it wasn't entered. This is to 
prevent erroneous characters from being typed.


With direct touch typing there is no pause. Just touch a character on 
the virtual keyboard as quickly as you can, and you'll see that it's 
entered immediately.


On 11/27/2014 09:58 AM, Jonathan Mosen wrote:

Hi Mike, direct touch typing is actually a pretty good description of
how the feature works. Rather than dragging your finger around the
screen and lifting your finger when you find the character you were
looking for, direct touch typing is designed for you to tap the
character exactly. It requires good muscle memory, but particularly on
an iPhone 6 Plus or an iPad, you can get speeds comparable to regular
touch typing on a PC or Mac with it if you practice enough and make good
use of auto-correct.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org


On 28/11/2014, at 4:55 am, Mike Arrigo mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:

Hey everyone. I finally did upgrade to IOS 8.1.1, so far it seems to
work fine, only issue I have found so far is that the caller id does
not always speak. Anyway, wondering what the difference is between
touch typing and direct touch typing. The direct touch typing option
is new with IOS 8

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Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Gmail]

Why did you have to restore your iPhone? I'm just curious.


Thanks,
Ari


> On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:17 PM, Charles Rivard  wrote:
> 
> You could have continued using 7.1.2.  Once you upgraded from that, though, 
> beyond a certain time, you could not downgrade.  Instructions on how to 
> downgrade, when it was still possible to do so, were given on this list.  I 
> know.  I saw them.  Not doing so during the grace period was your fault, not 
> Apple's.  Upgrading when you knew about the bugs was also your fault, not 
> Apple's.  Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to upgrade.  You did 
> it knowing the risks.  Now, start living with your decision and stop sending 
> your complaints to us, please?
> 
> ---
> Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, 
> you! really! are! finished!
> - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:09 PM
> Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> 
> No Kelly. You are wrong.
> I had  to update my iPhone. You know why?
> Because the dictator apple, doesn't allow me to restore my iPhone, with the 
> IOs 7.1.2 that I have stored in my computer. I couldn't restore my iPhone 
> when I was using IOs 7.1.2, because ... guess. Apple doesn't allow to do it. 
> After I discovered that, and after I sent many emails to apple, 
> accessibility. I asked here about IOs 8.1.1, and one of the more trustable 
> source here, said. IOs 8.1.1 has still bugs, even though I think it is great.
> So, I didn't have choices, or update, or use a phone who was getting to much 
> problems. Because of that I needed to restore my iPhone.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Kelly Pierce
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:34 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> Pablo,
> 
> In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western
> world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have
> corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to
> revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS
> version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put
> out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover
> users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on
> the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources.  Both reviews strongly
> recommended that people wait until another version to receive better
> performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both
> stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved.
> Despite all of this you upgraded anyway.
> 
> The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility.  At this point,
> you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to
> learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple
> is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are.
> 
> Kelly
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 11/27/14, Kerri G  wrote:
>> And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will
>> happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you
>> cry foul too many times.
>>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your
>>> negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list.
>>> You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a
>>> damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major
>>> release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've
>>> said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about
>>> that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I
>>> can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8
>>> is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing
>>> Apple will never get us anywhere.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> 
 On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales 
 wrote:
 
 Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for
 the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help
 everybody, even me.
 I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list,
 regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers
 of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If
 we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember
 IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6,
 and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like
 every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower.
 Why is it happening?
 Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs
 qual

Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Jonathan Mosen]

Hi Mike, I would have expected a Siri API before we got third-party keyboards 
actually, but third-party keyboards give me hope that we will eventually get 
there with the Siri API.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

> On 28/11/2014, at 1:55 pm, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> I think part of the issue is that Apple likes to keep much more control over 
> things than google. I agree that a siri API would be awesome.
> On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Robin, you make a really important point. With all the extensability 
>> features added in iOS 8, there is still no Siri API. Imagine if you could 
>> ask Siri to read the latest John Grisham from Bookshare, which could cause 
>> Voice Dream to spring into action, tune into your favourite local station, 
>> which could cause TuneIn Radio to open, "Call me a taxi to pick me up", 
>> which could cause a taxi app to open pre-populated with your current 
>> address...the possibilities are endless.
>> Apple doesn't  like being behind. It has  the resources to fix Siri, which 
>> is clearly an offering not keeping pace, and I'm sure it will.
>> There's so much more room for intelligent use of natural language to be 
>> explored as well. But Siri absolutely needs an API.
>> An interesting footnote to my audio piece is that yesterday afternoon a few 
>> hours after recording it, I asked Siri how much the 11-inch Macbook Air 
>> weighed. Siri performed a web search and showed results on the screen, but 
>> when I asked the same question of Google Voice Search, it spoke me the 
>> precise answer. It was impressive on Google's part.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org
>> 
>>> On 28/11/2014, at 3:25 am, Robin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In my opinion, Microsoft's Cortana, its Virtual Personal Assistant BLOWS 
>>> Apple's Siri OUT of the WATER in terms of what it can do. Also, Microsoft 
>>> is allowing its WP App Developers to incorporate the use of Microsoft's 
>>> Cortana with the functionality of apps. I only HOPE App Developers provide 
>>> more Microsoft Narrator friendly access as well as access to other disabled 
>>> populations without diminishing features of the apps.
>>> 
>>> At 05:18 AM 11/27/2014, you wrote:
 Here in the United States there have been commercials over the last couple 
 of months comparing Siri to the Windows phone personal assistant called 
 Cortana. If you guys want some amusement go to YouTube and do a search for 
 Siri Cortona commercials and you will be highly amused. One of my personal 
 ones is the mirror mere.
 
 
 
 On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:57 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
 
> Hi kelly. This demonstrates that the vision of Siri has yet to be truly 
> fulfilled. The idea with such services as announced in 2011 was that you 
> could talk to your phone in natural language style, much like you would 
> ask your personal assistant a question. Indeed, Siri has been described 
> as a personal assistant. One shouldn't have to get a syntax just so in 
> order to get the answer you want. Natural language queries will improve 
> over time, and it is good to know that at least if you ask a question in 
> just the right way, you may get the answer you're looking for. Who knows 
> what things will be like a year from now, but at this point it seems 
> Google can parse queries a little more intelligently, at least in some 
> cases.
> Apple seem to know it has some catch-up to do. Word is they are devoting 
> some serious new resources to improving what Siri can do. I suspect we 
> will see big things relating to Siri in iOS 9.
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org
> 
>> On 27/11/2014, at 1:59 pm, Kelly Pierce  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> I was able to successfully convert $19.95 in American currency to New
>> Zealand dollars.  first in converting currencies in SIRI, it is always
>> important to say the name of the country using dollars, as multiple
>> countries call their currency dollars.  I told both SIRI and Google
>> quote "convert 19 point 95 United States dollars into New Zealand
>> dollars" end quote.  I received the exact value from both SIRI and
>> Google.  In your instance, it was an unfair comparison, disadvantaging
>> Apple.  As discussed previously on this list, SIRI requires people to
>> use the word convert at the beginning of a currency conversion.  SIRI
>> taps into yahoo finance, which uses the command structure country
>> followed by currency name of originating currency followed by the
>> country name and currency name of destination currency.  when this
>> syntax is used, SIRI can be used easily for currency conversion.
>> 
>>>

Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Mike Arrigo]

I think part of the issue is that Apple likes to keep much more control over 
things than google. I agree that a siri API would be awesome.
On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:55 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:

> Hi Robin, you make a really important point. With all the extensability 
> features added in iOS 8, there is still no Siri API. Imagine if you could ask 
> Siri to read the latest John Grisham from Bookshare, which could cause Voice 
> Dream to spring into action, tune into your favourite local station, which 
> could cause TuneIn Radio to open, "Call me a taxi to pick me up", which could 
> cause a taxi app to open pre-populated with your current address...the 
> possibilities are endless.
> Apple doesn't  like being behind. It has  the resources to fix Siri, which is 
> clearly an offering not keeping pace, and I'm sure it will.
> There's so much more room for intelligent use of natural language to be 
> explored as well. But Siri absolutely needs an API.
> An interesting footnote to my audio piece is that yesterday afternoon a few 
> hours after recording it, I asked Siri how much the 11-inch Macbook Air 
> weighed. Siri performed a web search and showed results on the screen, but 
> when I asked the same question of Google Voice Search, it spoke me the 
> precise answer. It was impressive on Google's part.
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org
> 
>> On 28/11/2014, at 3:25 am, Robin  wrote:
>> 
>> In my opinion, Microsoft's Cortana, its Virtual Personal Assistant BLOWS 
>> Apple's Siri OUT of the WATER in terms of what it can do. Also, Microsoft is 
>> allowing its WP App Developers to incorporate the use of Microsoft's Cortana 
>> with the functionality of apps. I only HOPE App Developers provide more 
>> Microsoft Narrator friendly access as well as access to other disabled 
>> populations without diminishing features of the apps.
>> 
>> At 05:18 AM 11/27/2014, you wrote:
>>> Here in the United States there have been commercials over the last couple 
>>> of months comparing Siri to the Windows phone personal assistant called 
>>> Cortana. If you guys want some amusement go to YouTube and do a search for 
>>> Siri Cortona commercials and you will be highly amused. One of my personal 
>>> ones is the mirror mere.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:57 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi kelly. This demonstrates that the vision of Siri has yet to be truly 
 fulfilled. The idea with such services as announced in 2011 was that you 
 could talk to your phone in natural language style, much like you would 
 ask your personal assistant a question. Indeed, Siri has been described as 
 a personal assistant. One shouldn't have to get a syntax just so in order 
 to get the answer you want. Natural language queries will improve over 
 time, and it is good to know that at least if you ask a question in just 
 the right way, you may get the answer you're looking for. Who knows what 
 things will be like a year from now, but at this point it seems Google can 
 parse queries a little more intelligently, at least in some cases.
 Apple seem to know it has some catch-up to do. Word is they are devoting 
 some serious new resources to improving what Siri can do. I suspect we 
 will see big things relating to Siri in iOS 9.
 Jonathan Mosen
 Mosen Consulting
 Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
 http://Mosen.org
 
> On 27/11/2014, at 1:59 pm, Kelly Pierce  wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> I was able to successfully convert $19.95 in American currency to New
> Zealand dollars.  first in converting currencies in SIRI, it is always
> important to say the name of the country using dollars, as multiple
> countries call their currency dollars.  I told both SIRI and Google
> quote "convert 19 point 95 United States dollars into New Zealand
> dollars" end quote.  I received the exact value from both SIRI and
> Google.  In your instance, it was an unfair comparison, disadvantaging
> Apple.  As discussed previously on this list, SIRI requires people to
> use the word convert at the beginning of a currency conversion.  SIRI
> taps into yahoo finance, which uses the command structure country
> followed by currency name of originating currency followed by the
> country name and currency name of destination currency.  when this
> syntax is used, SIRI can be used easily for currency conversion.
> 
> What was interesting was that SIRI and Google reported a penny
> difference in your example.
> 
> Kelly
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/26/14, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>> Hi Charles. That link takes you to the Audioboom website, which is a 
>> popular
>> way of creating and distributing audio. But here is the direct link to 
>> the
>> MP3.
>> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comp

Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Christopher Chaltain]

I see. IOS 8.1.1 is the fourth release of the IOS 8 firmware. It's been 
out for more than 2 months, more than 1/6 or 16% of it's life 
expectancy. How long do people have to wait before upgrading and being 
able to take advantage of the new features without being portrayed as 
pioneers? We're not talking about beta testers. If I recall, it wasn't 
until late January or sometime in February before I moved up to a 
version of IOS 7 that squashed the most annoying bugs I had with IOS 7.


On 11/27/2014 05:47 PM, Charles Rivard wrote:

The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to
immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to
get bugs.

---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
finished, you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain"

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting
with IOs 8.1.1


I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple
products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM
and Apple created the smart phone market in the US.

I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other
technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my
house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS
supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S.
Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of
another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my
PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen
reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should
define the entire Windows ecosystem.

I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to
IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but
iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a
sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to
upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a
supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the
top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs
to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as
more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development
and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration
needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility,
they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they
can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community
is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on
accessibility.

On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote:

Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first
to encounter arrows!

That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on
other lists of course)!

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off
their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM
Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with
IOs 8.1.1


Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows.  Always, when a new
operating system is introduced, keep this in mind.

---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
finished,
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X"
might
be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming
until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long
enough to
see iOS 40.???!

The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has
been quite frustrating.  Prudence dictates that I (and other blind
individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS
versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution.

That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing
technology platforms.  I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to
maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework
that
seemingly completely disregards the customer investment  - yes indeed,
I am
referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to
retain JAWS.  I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the
accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike
Pablo
I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right."  I intend to
buy a
Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific
because, if my iPhone experience is any indic

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Charles Rivard]

You could have continued using 7.1.2.  Once you upgraded from that, though, 
beyond a certain time, you could not downgrade.  Instructions on how to 
downgrade, when it was still possible to do so, were given on this list.  I 
know.  I saw them.  Not doing so during the grace period was your fault, not 
Apple's.  Upgrading when you knew about the bugs was also your fault, not 
Apple's.  Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to upgrade.  You did 
it knowing the risks.  Now, start living with your decision and stop sending 
your complaints to us, please?


---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, 
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:09 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


No Kelly. You are wrong.
I had  to update my iPhone. You know why?
Because the dictator apple, doesn't allow me to restore my iPhone, with the 
IOs 7.1.2 that I have stored in my computer. I couldn't restore my iPhone 
when I was using IOs 7.1.2, because ... guess. Apple doesn't allow to do it. 
After I discovered that, and after I sent many emails to apple, 
accessibility. I asked here about IOs 8.1.1, and one of the more trustable 
source here, said. IOs 8.1.1 has still bugs, even though I think it is 
great.
So, I didn't have choices, or update, or use a phone who was getting to much 
problems. Because of that I needed to restore my iPhone.



-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Kelly Pierce

Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:34 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo,

In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western
world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have
corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to
revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS
version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put
out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover
users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on
the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources.  Both reviews strongly
recommended that people wait until another version to receive better
performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both
stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved.
Despite all of this you upgraded anyway.

The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility.  At this point,
you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to
learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple
is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are.

Kelly




On 11/27/14, Kerri G  wrote:

And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will
happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you
cry foul too many times.

On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:

Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your
negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list.
You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a
damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major
release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've
said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt 
about

that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I
can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8
is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing
Apple will never get us anywhere.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook


On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales 
wrote:

Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for
the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help
everybody, even me.
I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the 
list,
regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are 
customers

of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If
we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you 
Remember

IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6,
and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like
every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower.
Why is it happening?
Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs
quality.
A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good
job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I
don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is
because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy
with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality.
My advice to everybody, is write to 

RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Pablo Morales]

No Kelly. You are wrong.
I had  to update my iPhone. You know why?
Because the dictator apple, doesn't allow me to restore my iPhone, with the IOs 
7.1.2 that I have stored in my computer. I couldn't restore my iPhone when I 
was using IOs 7.1.2, because ... guess. Apple doesn't allow to do it. After I 
discovered that, and after I sent many emails to apple, accessibility. I asked 
here about IOs 8.1.1, and one of the more trustable source here, said. IOs 
8.1.1 has still bugs, even though I think it is great.
So, I didn't have choices, or update, or use a phone who was getting to much 
problems. Because of that I needed to restore my iPhone.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Kelly Pierce
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:34 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo,

In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western
world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have
corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to
revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS
version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put
out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover
users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on
the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources.  Both reviews strongly
recommended that people wait until another version to receive better
performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both
stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved.
Despite all of this you upgraded anyway.

The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility.  At this point,
you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to
learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple
is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are.

Kelly




On 11/27/14, Kerri G  wrote:
> And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will
> happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you
> cry foul too many times.
>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>
>> Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your
>> negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list.
>> You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a
>> damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major
>> release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've
>> said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about
>> that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I
>> can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8
>> is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing
>> Apple will never get us anywhere.
>>
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for
>>> the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help
>>> everybody, even me.
>>> I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list,
>>> regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers
>>> of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If
>>> we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember
>>> IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6,
>>> and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like
>>> every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower.
>>> Why is it happening?
>>> Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs
>>> quality.
>>> A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good
>>> job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I
>>> don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is
>>> because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy
>>> with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality.
>>> My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of
>>> noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their
>>> customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to
>>> improve anything.
>>> I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive
>>> messages.
>>> Pablo tired of IOs bugs.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On
>>> Behalf Of RobH.
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
>>>
>>> I think he means, he usually means:-
>>>
>>> if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no
>>> rea

Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Charles Rivard]

The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to 
immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to get 
bugs.


---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, 
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Chaltain" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with 
IOs 8.1.1



I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple
products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM
and Apple created the smart phone market in the US.

I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other
technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my
house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS
supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S.
Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of
another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my
PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen
reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should
define the entire Windows ecosystem.

I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to
IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but
iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a
sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to
upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a
supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the
top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs
to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as
more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development
and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration
needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility,
they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they
can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community
is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on
accessibility.

On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote:

Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first
to encounter arrows!

That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on
other lists of course)!

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off
their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM
Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with
IOs 8.1.1


Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows.  Always, when a new
operating system is introduced, keep this in mind.

---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
finished,
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" 
might

be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming
until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough 
to

see iOS 40.???!

The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has
been quite frustrating.  Prudence dictates that I (and other blind
individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS
versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution.

That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing
technology platforms.  I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to
maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that
seemingly completely disregards the customer investment  - yes indeed, I 
am

referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to
retain JAWS.  I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the
accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike 
Pablo
I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right."  I intend to buy 
a

Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific
because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about
protecting their customers' investments.

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off 
their

guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales"

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
messages posted

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Charles Rivard]

Wouldn't it be better for you to continually voice your opinions to Apple 
rather than to this list?  Why not cut out any "middle men", and convey your 
thoughts directly to the source?


---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, 
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:50 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the 
list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, 
even me.
I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, 
regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of 
apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we 
stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 
6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look 
IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the 
quality is lower, and lower, and lower.

Why is it happening?
Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs 
quality.
A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good 
job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't 
see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because 
there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with 
whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality.
My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, 
then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but 
been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything.

I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages.
Pablo tired of IOs bugs.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of RobH.

Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

I think he means, he usually means:-

if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real
purpose on the list.   There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a
few falling over them,  that at least was useful.
He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented
so far.

I think that about summarises it,  hope I don't go getting flack for saying
so.

Rh.

- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple.
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email
list. What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had,
and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people
saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like
he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that
I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs
7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is
happy  with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about
accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government,
talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose
your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of
that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with
freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs,
and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or
any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From:

Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Jonathan Mosen]

Hi Kerri, you're factually incorrect when you say that Siri doesn't work in New 
Zealand. It does. A couple of functions don't. 
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

> On 28/11/2014, at 12:11 pm, Kerri G  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Jonathan:
> 
> I do see your point but I just thought that since you know it doesn’t work in 
> New Zealand, why demonstrate that it doesn’t? Now I think it *needs to work 
> in *all countries. 
> 
> For me, I’m not much into Siri or any voice recognition for that matter so 
> barely use it but I of see that it is an awesome feature. I know, I’m nuts 
> but I dislike voice recognition and I really don’t know why other than I 
> don’t want to have to word things carefully or want to have to have people 
> hear me talking to my phone. I’ strange, I know.
>> On Nov 26, 2014, at 10:23 PM, Jonathan Mosen > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hi kerri, this demonstration examines the two voice search options as I 
>> experience them. The question needs to be asked, if Google can look for 
>> businesses in more countries, why is Apple behind in this regard? There is 
>> an increasing disparity emerging not just with Siri, but also with iTunes 
>> Radio and now Apple Pay. Yet people pay the same price for their iphones.
>> This limitation only affects a couple of the questions asked, however, and 
>> it's made clear when this is the case. Most of the others will be answered 
>> similarly no matter where in the world you live. .
>> The best thing people can do, I think, is try both apps and see which works 
>> best for them in any given scenario.
>> Jonathan Mosen
>> Mosen Consulting
>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>> http://Mosen.org 
>>> On 27/11/2014, at 12:54 pm, Kerri G >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Thanks, Jonathan for this excellent review:
>>> 
>>> I find that both Siri and Google have advantages and disadvantages.  
>>> However, knowing Siri isn’t available  in New Zealand, is that a fair test? 
 On Nov 26, 2014, at 6:41 AM, Jonathan Mosen >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi everyone. I've put together a half-hour comparison of Siri and Google 
 Voice Search, performing a range of tasks.
 Hope some of you find it useful.
 https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search
  
 
 Jonathan Mosen
 Mosen Consulting
 Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
 http://Mosen.org 
 
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>>> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators 
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>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>>> 

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Kelly Pierce]

Pablo,

In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western
world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have
corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to
revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS
version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put
out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover
users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on
the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources.  Both reviews strongly
recommended that people wait until another version to receive better
performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both
stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved.
Despite all of this you upgraded anyway.

The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility.  At this point,
you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to
learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple
is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are.

Kelly




On 11/27/14, Kerri G  wrote:
> And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will
> happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you
> cry foul too many times.
>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>
>> Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your
>> negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list.
>> You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a
>> damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major
>> release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've
>> said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about
>> that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I
>> can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8
>> is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing
>> Apple will never get us anywhere.
>>
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for
>>> the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help
>>> everybody, even me.
>>> I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list,
>>> regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers
>>> of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If
>>> we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember
>>> IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6,
>>> and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like
>>> every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower.
>>> Why is it happening?
>>> Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs
>>> quality.
>>> A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good
>>> job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I
>>> don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is
>>> because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy
>>> with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality.
>>> My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of
>>> noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their
>>> customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to
>>> improve anything.
>>> I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive
>>> messages.
>>> Pablo tired of IOs bugs.
>>>
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On
>>> Behalf Of RobH.
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
>>>
>>> I think he means, he usually means:-
>>>
>>> if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no
>>> real
>>> purpose on the list.   There have been timely warnings about bugs to save
>>> a
>>> few falling over them,  that at least was useful.
>>> He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge
>>> presented
>>> so far.
>>>
>>> I think that about summarises it,  hope I don't go getting flack for
>>> saying
>>> so.
>>>
>>> Rh.
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Pablo Morales" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM
>>> Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Raul.
>>> In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
>>> messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for
>>> apple.
>>> Are you owner of apple?
>>> No, right?
>>> Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the
>>> accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email

Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Kerri G]

Hi, Jonathan:

I do see your point but I just thought that since you know it doesn’t work in 
New Zealand, why demonstrate that it doesn’t? Now I think it *needs to work in 
*all countries. 

For me, I’m not much into Siri or any voice recognition for that matter so 
barely use it but I of see that it is an awesome feature. I know, I’m nuts but 
I dislike voice recognition and I really don’t know why other than I don’t want 
to have to word things carefully or want to have to have people hear me talking 
to my phone. I’ strange, I know.
> On Nov 26, 2014, at 10:23 PM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
> 
> Hi kerri, this demonstration examines the two voice search options as I 
> experience them. The question needs to be asked, if Google can look for 
> businesses in more countries, why is Apple behind in this regard? There is an 
> increasing disparity emerging not just with Siri, but also with iTunes Radio 
> and now Apple Pay. Yet people pay the same price for their iphones.
> This limitation only affects a couple of the questions asked, however, and 
> it's made clear when this is the case. Most of the others will be answered 
> similarly no matter where in the world you live. .
> The best thing people can do, I think, is try both apps and see which works 
> best for them in any given scenario.
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org 
>> On 27/11/2014, at 12:54 pm, Kerri G > > wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Jonathan for this excellent review:
>> 
>> I find that both Siri and Google have advantages and disadvantages.  
>> However, knowing Siri isn’t available  in New Zealand, is that a fair test? 
>>> On Nov 26, 2014, at 6:41 AM, Jonathan Mosen >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone. I've put together a half-hour comparison of Siri and Google 
>>> Voice Search, performing a range of tasks.
>>> Hope some of you find it useful.
>>> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org 
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> 
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Re: A general technical question

[Kelly Pierce]

Is the phone unlocked from Verizon?  If so, have you verified this
with Verizon?  In general, Verizon iPhones starting with the iPhone 5
can accept a nanno SIM card from a GSM carrier, such as AT&T and
T-Mobile.  This came about in a legal settlement with the federal
government.  I cannot speak to the specific offer you examined.  If it
sounds different from normal practice, run away and find a phone that
has this standard feature.

Kelly

On 11/27/14, Donald L. Roberts  wrote:
> I am shopping for a used or refurbished 5S and need clarification about
> carrier specifications.  At present, I have two IOS devices a 4S which
> is activated on Verizon, and a 4 which is activated on Page Plus.  Page
> Plus operates on the Verizon network which of course is CDMA.
>
> Until this morning, I was under the impression that if I bought a 5S,
> all I had to do to get it to work was to buy a Sim from either carrier
> and the phone would work.  I had also thought that I could even go to a
> GSM carrier if I wished, and the 5S would work if I had a sim from the
> chosen GSM carrier.  However, in reading the specs on a 5S from one
> vender, the language indicated that this particular 5S would work only
> on the Verizon network, specifically that it would not work on GSM
> networks.
>
> Therefore, I post this message asking for a clarification as I really
> don't want to make a stupid and very avoidable mistake.  Thanks in
> advance for feedback.
>
> Don Roberts
>
> --
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Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Kerri G]

And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will 
happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you cry 
foul too many times.
> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your negative 
> messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list. You've been 
> saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a damn about us and 
> that they're breaking accessibility with every major release. And just like 
> Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've said it before and I'll say 
> it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about that. But honestly, the cool 
> new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I can say for most people that 
> Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8 is enjoyable. Can they improve? 
> Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing Apple will never get us anywhere.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> 
>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
>> 
>> Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the 
>> list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, 
>> even me.
>> I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, 
>> regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of 
>> apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we 
>> stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 
>> 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look 
>> IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the 
>> quality is lower, and lower, and lower.
>> Why is it happening?
>> Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality.
>> A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good 
>> job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't 
>> see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because 
>> there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with 
>> whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. 
>> My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, 
>> then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but 
>> been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything.
>> I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages.
>> Pablo tired of IOs bugs.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of RobH.
>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
>> 
>> I think he means, he usually means:-
>> 
>> if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real 
>> purpose on the list.   There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a 
>> few falling over them,  that at least was useful.
>> He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented 
>> so far.
>> 
>> I think that about summarises it,  hope I don't go getting flack for saying 
>> so.
>> 
>> Rh.
>> 
>> - Original Message - 
>> From: "Pablo Morales" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM
>> Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
>> 
>> 
>> Hi Raul.
>> In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
>> messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
>> Are you owner of apple?
>> No, right?
>> Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
>> accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
>> list. What is your problem?
>> That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
>> No, it is not great, and you know that.
>> That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
>> allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
>> fair, is not good?
>> Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
>> That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, 
>> and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people 
>> saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like 
>> he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
>> What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
>> I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 
>> 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
>> This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is 
>> happy  with apple?
>> No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
>> accessibility in apple devices, right?
>> Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
>> Yo

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your negative 
messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list. You've been 
saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a damn about us and 
that they're breaking accessibility with every major release. And just like 
Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've said it before and I'll say it 
again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about that. But honestly, the cool new 
features outweigh the bugs. So I think I can say for most people that Apple 
must be doing something right if iOS 8 is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah 
sure. But messages like this bashing Apple will never get us anywhere.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook

> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
> 
> Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the 
> list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, 
> even me.
> I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, 
> regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of 
> apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay 
> quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it 
> had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, 
> the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality 
> is lower, and lower, and lower.
> Why is it happening?
> Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality.
> A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, 
> because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see 
> this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there 
> were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple 
> is doing, always they will decrease the quality. 
> My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, 
> then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but 
> been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything.
> I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages.
> Pablo tired of IOs bugs.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> RobH.
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> I think he means, he usually means:-
> 
> if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real 
> purpose on the list.   There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a 
> few falling over them,  that at least was useful.
> He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented 
> so far.
> 
> I think that about summarises it,  hope I don't go getting flack for saying 
> so.
> 
> Rh.
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Pablo Morales" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM
> Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> 
> Hi Raul.
> In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
> messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
> Are you owner of apple?
> No, right?
> Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
> accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
> list. What is your problem?
> That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
> No, it is not great, and you know that.
> That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
> allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
> fair, is not good?
> Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
> That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, 
> and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people 
> saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like 
> he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
> What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
> I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 
> 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
> This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is 
> happy  with apple?
> No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
> accessibility in apple devices, right?
> Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
> You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, 
> talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose 
> your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of 
> that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with 
> freedom.
> Any way, as owner of this e

Re: NFL Mobile

[Christopher Chaltain]

When this happens to me, I just close the stream and then click on the 
listen live button again.


On 11/27/2014 01:55 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:

The problem is that whatever I do, I keep ending up hearing a game I
listened to a few weeks ago. Always the same game. This happens whatever
method I use. This happens even after rebooting the phone.

Andy


-Original Message- From: Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 6:19 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: NFL Mobile

You need to get into the Game Center for the game you want to listen to.
Once you're in the Game Center look for the Listen button if it's a live
game or the Replay button if it's already been played.

I usually use the All Scores button on the first screen if the game I
want to listen to isn't already listed. You can also double tab on the
Schedules and Scores heading, which you need to get to by exploration,
since it doesn't get spoken if you just swipe left and right. Once
you're in the list of games, you just need to double tap on the game you
want to listen to or change the week if you want to find a game for a
previous week.

On 11/02/2014 04:25 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:

Can anyone tell me how to access the live game streams on the NFL mobile
app? It seems that I used to be able to do this, but now find the app to
be only partially accessible, and cannot find any control that brings me
to the live game audio.
Andy
I'm not wearing a diaper, so don't try to change me.

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Re: Any other way of Reorganizing what's in the Rotor?

[Flor Lynch]

I'm wondering why my Focus14 braille display's ability to  move by panning down 
and up the screen slowed down in the last few days. Ok, I may have increased 
VO's speaking rate slightly. Undoing other things I did around that time seemed 
to have no effect. Maybe at a certain point, when speech is quite fast, you 
should mute it if you want to navigate with the display at your usual speed?.   
  

  - Original Message - 
  From: Teresa Cochran 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 5:54 AM
  Subject: Re: Any other way of Reorganizing what's in the Rotor?


  There really isn't a way to use Braille display commands in the rotor, except 
for dots 5-6-chord to move to the next rotor category, dots 2-3-chord for 
previous, and dots 6-chord and 3-chord to move to next a same rotor item.  The 
Braille input rotor item is for on-screen Braille commands. If you turn 
quick-nav on with a bluetooth keyboard, you can use Braille commands in Safari, 
such as h for headings and f for form fields. The QuickNav Braille command 
toggle is broken for now.


  Hth,
  Teresa 

  "We can see with the eyes, but we see with the brain as well, and seeing with 
the brain is often called imagination."--Oliver Sacks

  On Nov 26, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Flor Lynch  wrote:


Since it appears that nnobody knows of any other way of organizing setting 
in the Rotor, other than via Settings General Accessibility VoiceOver Rotor: 
I'll now ask, what are the bbest braille screen navigation settings that one 
can set, using the Rotor? (By "Braille navigation settings, I mean those that 
you'd use (or prefer to use) if you have a braille display with iOS. (Good and 
all as it is, It'd be better if Apple treated braille as equal to speech rather 
than being subservient to speech. E.g., when speech punctuation is set to All 
Punctuation, a braille reader then reads the words comma dash period etc in 
full, instead of in natural format.)


- Original Message - From: "Flor Lynch" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 3:31 AM
Subject: Any other way of Reorganizing what's in the Rotor?


Hi,
First question is, is there any other way than the Rotor Reorder buttons
in Settings | General | Accessibility | VoiceOver | Rotor?, to
reorganize items in the rotor? (Incidentally, it's possible to remove
the Braille Input Mode change from the rotor, and I did just that,
attempting to get to the bottom os sluggish navigation that has started
to happen recently on my Focus14 BT display.) I also believe I may have
found what the Containers settting means. But I'm looking for an easier
alternative way or place to switch, or restore, Rotor items, if such
exists.

The double-tap-and-hold, then drag, scenario - turns into a wee bit of a
drag.

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Re: NFL Mobile

[Andy Baracco]

The problem is that whatever I do, I keep ending up hearing a game I 
listened to a few weeks ago. Always the same game. This happens whatever 
method I use. This happens even after rebooting the phone.


Andy


-Original Message- 
From: Christopher Chaltain

Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 6:19 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: NFL Mobile

You need to get into the Game Center for the game you want to listen to.
Once you're in the Game Center look for the Listen button if it's a live
game or the Replay button if it's already been played.

I usually use the All Scores button on the first screen if the game I
want to listen to isn't already listed. You can also double tab on the
Schedules and Scores heading, which you need to get to by exploration,
since it doesn't get spoken if you just swipe left and right. Once
you're in the list of games, you just need to double tap on the game you
want to listen to or change the week if you want to find a game for a
previous week.

On 11/02/2014 04:25 PM, Andy Baracco wrote:

Can anyone tell me how to access the live game streams on the NFL mobile
app? It seems that I used to be able to do this, but now find the app to
be only partially accessible, and cannot find any control that brings me
to the live game audio.
Andy
I'm not wearing a diaper, so don't try to change me.

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Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail

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I'm not wearing a diaper, so don't try to change me. 


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A general technical question

[Donald L. Roberts]

I am shopping for a used or refurbished 5S and need clarification about 
carrier specifications.  At present, I have two IOS devices a 4S which 
is activated on Verizon, and a 4 which is activated on Page Plus.  Page 
Plus operates on the Verizon network which of course is CDMA.


Until this morning, I was under the impression that if I bought a 5S, 
all I had to do to get it to work was to buy a Sim from either carrier 
and the phone would work.  I had also thought that I could even go to a 
GSM carrier if I wished, and the 5S would work if I had a sim from the 
chosen GSM carrier.  However, in reading the specs on a 5S from one 
vender, the language indicated that this particular 5S would work only 
on the Verizon network, specifically that it would not work on GSM 
networks.


Therefore, I post this message asking for a clarification as I really 
don't want to make a stupid and very avoidable mistake.  Thanks in 
advance for feedback.


Don Roberts

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RE: turning voice over on and off

[Pablo Morales]

I have 4 years using an iPhone. Believe me, I know how click on the home button.

The case wasn’t a problem when I was using IOs 7.1.2, so IOs 8.1.1  is missing 
with my case?

amazing

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Richard Turner
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 10:28 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: turning voice over on and off

 

A couple things.  If you have a case on the phone, make sure it is not loose.  
I had a case that until I made sure it was on correctly, I could not get a 
triple click of the home button to work.

 

Also, the clicks need to be within about a half second of each other.

 

Make sure in Settings, General Accessibility that the Accessibility Shortcut 
says VoiceOver.

 

HTH,

Richard

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
alia robinson
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 7:20 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: turning voice over on and off

 

if it opened the app switcher you are only pressing it twice. 

 

Alia

On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:23 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:

 

In my phone now, after 8.1.1, when I press 3 times the homebutton, it opens the 
app switcher now, it doesn’t turn off or on VO. Before with IOs 7.1.2  did 
pretty well, but now No.

 

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RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Pablo Morales]

Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the 
list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, 
even me.
I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, 
regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of 
apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay 
quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it 
had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the 
worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is 
lower, and lower, and lower.
Why is it happening?
Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality.
A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, 
because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this 
issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were 
things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is 
doing, always they will decrease the quality. 
My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then 
they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been 
good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything.
I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages.
Pablo tired of IOs bugs.


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
RobH.
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

I think he means, he usually means:-

if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real 
purpose on the list.   There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a 
few falling over them,  that at least was useful.
He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented 
so far.

I think that about summarises it,  hope I don't go getting flack for saying 
so.

Rh.

- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
list. What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, 
and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people 
saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like 
he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 
7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is 
happy  with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, 
talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose 
your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of 
that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with 
freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I 
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs, 
and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the 
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or 
any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly 
thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.



> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  
> wrote:
>
> Yes

Re: IOs 8.1.1, starting; Bluetooth keyboard, and weather app

[Robert Doc Wright]

Ok Thanks a lot. sliding over from the index instead of flicking did the 
trick.
- Original Message - 
From: "Christopher Chaltain" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 6:38 AM
Subject: Re: IOs 8.1.1, starting; Bluetooth keyboard, and weather app


It works for me as well. Sometimes I need to find the list of
suggestions by touch though. Swiping to them doesn't always work.

On 11/26/2014 01:50 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> I don’t know why this doesn’t work for you. Typing in part of a name in
> either the Messages, mail or Contacts tab of the Phone app works fine
> for me. I just made sure by typing in “Alex” and a few people came up
> whose first name was Alex, one whose last name is Alexander and a third
> who lives on Alexandria Street.
>
> I don’t use the item chooser that often and I only have about 50
> ringtones on my phone including the ones that are part of iOS 8, but I
> brought up the item switcher and went all the way to the letter W and
> when I moved my finger over to the left side, the ringtones from the
> bottom of the alphabet were there. This is on a 5S and I can say for
> sure that as far as I remember I never had a problem with the partial
> name and finding contact entries that way ever since I started using iOS
> 8 Beta back in June. I went through every beta version and all the
> official updates. It might be time for a factory reset to see if some of
> these issues will go away for you. Maybe others can say what their
> experience is with these 2 things.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sieghard
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Robert Doc Wright
> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:33 PM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: IOs 8.1.1, starting; Bluetooth keyboard, and weather app
>
> My problem with version  8 is that when I go to compose a text message I
> can no longer do a partial search by putting in part of the name and
> have it give me a list of all names in my contacts that start with these
> characters.  It does do it if I know part of the phone number but it use
> to do it with part of the name before. The item chooser doesn't work as
> it use to.  When going through my 500+ ringtones I could do a 2-finger
> double tap, flick down to the letter I needed and then flick right to
> see which tones started with that letter, this no longer works.
>
> - Original Message -
>
> *From:*Pablo Morales 
>
> *To:*viphone@googlegroups.com 
>
> *Sent:*Tuesday, November 25, 2014 3:05 AM
>
> *Subject:*IOs 8.1.1, starting; Bluetooth keyboard, and weather app
>
> Hi all.
>
> Well, as I promised, I have here some issues that IOs  8.1.1 has.
> The first, is the Bluetooth keyboard. I have the apple Bluetooth
> keyboard, and it was working perfectly  with IOs 7.1.2. Even though,
> it is working very bad with IOs 8.1.1. yes, I restored my iPhone as
> factory settings, and as a new device. Yes, I sink my Bluetooth
> keyboard, but it is something that in all IOs, apple has done a very
> poor job. Second, in the weather appl, I don’t see any value. It
> says the city where I live, but the only value that I see is the
> current temperature, and the higher for today, but the rest of
> information that we have before in IOs 7.1.2, is no there.
>
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> please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting
> on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at
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> 
> If we can't look at ourselves, and ask, why?  then where does the
> learning start?
>
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> http://www.mail-arch

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Christopher Chaltain]

I actually don't think Apple is wrong for downloading updates ahead of 
time and dropping support for older releases. There are good reasons to 
do this, and they're related to Apple's model of having the best 
customer experience and great customer support. I think this is all 
related to why people buy into the Apple experience.


I do think Apple should be taken to task for not addressing more of 
these bugs before releasing the software though. I think customers have 
a right to be frustrated. Apple also doesn't have to postpone their 
release schedule or scale back their feature set to address more bugs 
before release. They'd have to do something, it could be one or the 
other or maybe just putting more money and resources into the release, 
but they don't have to do both.


On 11/27/2014 12:27 PM, Sandratomkins wrote:

Hi,

I should like to add my voice to that of Pablo.I too felt somewhat pushed to 
update my for S.The unwanted update had been downloaded to my phone against my 
desires and was  sitting using up the last bit of available space there.I 
could, of course, have deleted it, but it would've downloaded again!add to this 
the fact that I have severely restricted bandwidth  and have no desire to 
download gigs of up dates dthat I don't want.I certainly don't want and cannot 
have this occurring on a repeated basis.Apple is in the wrong here.we should be 
able to downgrade if we find it necessary and we should be able to tick a box 
which says we will only download an update manually.for these reasons I would 
argue that Pablo has been completely correct throughout with regard to these  
policies re updating.

As far as moderation is concerned:I would have thought, given the blurb at the 
bottom of every email, that it would be better had you spent your time 
discouraging people from entering into a feeding frenzy of insulting remarks 
aimed at people who are discontented with the service Apple is in many ways 
foisting upon us.instead, I see you have joined in…

Sandy

Sent from my iPhone


On 27 Nov 2014, at 14:19, Pablo Morales  wrote:

Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. 
What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and 
after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that 
IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with 
this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that I 
wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 
that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy  
with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking 
very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, 
and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my 
country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I 
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs, and 
also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the 
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any 
body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly 
thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.




On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:

Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't restore 
my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2  is not 
signed for apple. It means that man

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Sandratomkins]

Hi,

I should like to add my voice to that of Pablo.I too felt somewhat pushed to 
update my for S.The unwanted update had been downloaded to my phone against my 
desires and was  sitting using up the last bit of available space there.I 
could, of course, have deleted it, but it would've downloaded again!add to this 
the fact that I have severely restricted bandwidth  and have no desire to 
download gigs of up dates dthat I don't want.I certainly don't want and cannot 
have this occurring on a repeated basis.Apple is in the wrong here.we should be 
able to downgrade if we find it necessary and we should be able to tick a box 
which says we will only download an update manually.for these reasons I would 
argue that Pablo has been completely correct throughout with regard to these  
policies re updating.

As far as moderation is concerned:I would have thought, given the blurb at the 
bottom of every email, that it would be better had you spent your time 
discouraging people from entering into a feeding frenzy of insulting remarks 
aimed at people who are discontented with the service Apple is in many ways 
foisting upon us.instead, I see you have joined in…

Sandy

Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Nov 2014, at 14:19, Pablo Morales  wrote:
> 
> Hi Raul.
> In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
> messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
> Are you owner of apple?
> No, right?
> Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
> accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
> list. What is your problem?
> That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
> No, it is not great, and you know that.
> That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
> allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
> fair, is not good?
> Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
> That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and 
> after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying 
> that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he 
> works with this matter, and has knowledge.
> What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
> I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 
> 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
> This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is 
> happy  with apple?
> No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
> accessibility in apple devices, right?
> Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
> You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, 
> talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose 
> your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of 
> that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom.
> Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
> I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I 
> got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs, and 
> also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the 
> Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or 
> any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
> And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly 
> thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't 
>> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2  
>> is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, 
>> liking or doesn't liking, I have to.
>> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of 
>> treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind 
>> of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous 
>> mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. a 
>> Again, it was my last apple device.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
>> Of Sieghard Weitzel
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:44 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1
>> 
>> Then you should have stayed wi

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Alex Hall]

Bill, congratulations on your (soon to be) Mac! If you need help with it, there 
are a couple email lists, and www.applevis.com  has a 
page with content for those new to the Mac.

Everyone else: I believe what Raul was saying is that, with every update, bugs 
happen. This list, AppleVis, and other resources exist so users can know what 
bugs to expect before they upgrade, and can decide whether or not to proceed. 
In the case of Pablo, I think Raul was saying that the same thing happens every 
year: he decries Apple for their lack of accessibility support, says that he'd 
like to switch to Android, then upgrades his iOS version and says the same 
things over again. Of course, this list is for people to get help and share 
knowledge, but messages simply stating that Apple isn't doing enough and isn't 
worth the poster's money don't contribute to that knowledge or support.

As to accessibility bugs, yes, they exist, I'm not saying they don't. Yes, it's 
usually best to wait for the x.1 version of a major new release. However, to 
think that accessibility is the only area affected is simply wrong. Many 
mainstream publications have been saying that there are more bugs in iOS8 than 
in any previous release, and these are bugs affecting the sighted world. Apple 
is even getting hit with a class action lawsuit over its refusal to fix certain 
MacBook Pros that all show the same kind of video card problems. My point is 
that a fast upgrade cycle, like what Apple has in place, is great for business 
and for pushing forward, but bugs get missed for sighted and blind users alike. 
Saying that Apple isn't committed to accessibility by pointing to iOS8's bugs 
is like saying that Apple doesn't care about wifi users by pointing to the 
ongoing wifi problems in iOS8. It is also to ignore the braille input system, 
direct touch typing, Alex voice, Hebrew braille support, expanded braille 
options, totally overhauled Zoom, fully accessible new mainstream features, and 
all the other work that went into iOS8's accessibility.
> On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:07 PM, Bill Gallik  wrote:
> 
> I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might 
> be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming 
> until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to 
> see iOS 40.???!
> 
> The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been 
> quite frustrating.  Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) 
> take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I 
> would advise all here to exercise such caution.
> 
> That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing 
> technology platforms.  I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to 
> maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that 
> seemingly completely disregards the customer investment  - yes indeed, I am 
> referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to 
> retain JAWS.  I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the 
> accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo 
> I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right."  I intend to buy a 
> Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific 
> because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about 
> protecting their customers' investments.
> 
> Holland's Boy, Bill
> - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their 
> guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
> - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
> - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM
> Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> 
> Hi Raul.
> In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
> messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
> Are you owner of apple?
> No, right?
> Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
> accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
> list. What is your problem?
> That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
> No, it is not great, and you know that.
> That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
> allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
> fair, is not good?
> Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
> That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and 
> after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying 
> that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he 
> works with this matter, and has knowledge.
> What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
> I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with 

Re: Having A "Senior Moment"

[Andrew Lamanche]

Ah, yes, I did the same booboo in the past and was asking a SOS question on the 
list.  I just didn’t know that it might happen.  Now I’ve learnt my lesson and 
you are making me aware again that it might happen agian.  Thanks.  And don’t 
feel silly.  And it’s kind of of you to share.

Andrew
> On 27 Nov 2014, at 17:35, Bill Gallik  wrote:
> 
> OK Gang, much as I hate to confess to this "DO'OH" mishap on my part, I think 
> some of you might benefit from this refresher; the volume control for the ear 
> phone and the speaker are independent of each other.
> 
> What this means in practical terms is that while you might be able to  hear 
> VoiceOver quite well with the earphones deployed, it does not necessarily 
> follow that VoiceOver will be likewise audible via the external speaker (and 
> vice versa).
> 
> If, by some mishap, you find that you are quite able to hear VoiceOver via 
> your earphones but VoiceOver seems to be non-functioning when said earphones 
> are retired, try increasing the volume (with the volume buttons) after doing 
> a 2-finger swipe on the screen and be alert for the phenomenon of VoiceOver 
> becoming more and more audible.
> 
> Got this escalated to Apple support (from AT&T); Boy, Oh Boy, do I feel S T U 
> P I D ! ! !
> 
> Holland's Boy, Bill
> - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their 
> guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
> - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) 
> 
> ---
> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus 
> protection is active.
> http://www.avast.com
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. 
> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any 
> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a 
> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators 
> directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list 
> can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/.
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> <- Bill.vcf>

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Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Christopher Chaltain]

I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple 
products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM 
and Apple created the smart phone market in the US.


I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other 
technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my 
house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS 
supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. 
Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of 
another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my 
PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen 
reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should 
define the entire Windows ecosystem.


I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to 
IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but 
iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a 
sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to 
upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a 
supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the 
top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs 
to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as 
more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development 
and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration 
needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility, 
they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they 
can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community 
is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on 
accessibility.


On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote:

Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first
to encounter arrows!

That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on
other lists of course)!

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off
their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM
Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with
IOs 8.1.1


Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows.  Always, when a new
operating system is introduced, keep this in mind.

---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
finished,
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might
be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming
until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to
see iOS 40.???!

The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has
been quite frustrating.  Prudence dictates that I (and other blind
individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS
versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution.

That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing
technology platforms.  I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to
maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that
seemingly completely disregards the customer investment  - yes indeed, I am
referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to
retain JAWS.  I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the
accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo
I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right."  I intend to buy a
Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific
because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about
protecting their customers' investments.

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their
guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales"

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for
apple.
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email
list. What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not
allowing

RE: Having A "Senior Moment"

[Terrie Terlau]

Bill,
Thank you for sharing. I would have done the same thing you did. I willl 
remember this so I don/'t.
Terrie
-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Bill Gallik
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:35 PM
To: E-Mail Group, viPhone
Subject: Having A "Senior Moment"

OK Gang, much as I hate to confess to this "DO'OH" mishap on my part, I 
think some of you might benefit from this refresher; the volume control for 
the ear phone and the speaker are independent of each other.

What this means in practical terms is that while you might be able to  hear 
VoiceOver quite well with the earphones deployed, it does not necessarily 
follow that VoiceOver will be likewise audible via the external speaker (and 
vice versa).

If, by some mishap, you find that you are quite able to hear VoiceOver via 
your earphones but VoiceOver seems to be non-functioning when said earphones 
are retired, try increasing the volume (with the volume buttons) after doing 
a 2-finger swipe on the screen and be alert for the phenomenon of VoiceOver 
becoming more and more audible.

Got this escalated to Apple support (from AT&T); Boy, Oh Boy, do I feel S T 
U P I D ! ! !

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their 
guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) 


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Having A "Senior Moment"

[Bill Gallik]

OK Gang, much as I hate to confess to this "DO'OH" mishap on my part, I 
think some of you might benefit from this refresher; the volume control for 
the ear phone and the speaker are independent of each other.


What this means in practical terms is that while you might be able to  hear 
VoiceOver quite well with the earphones deployed, it does not necessarily 
follow that VoiceOver will be likewise audible via the external speaker (and 
vice versa).


If, by some mishap, you find that you are quite able to hear VoiceOver via 
your earphones but VoiceOver seems to be non-functioning when said earphones 
are retired, try increasing the volume (with the volume buttons) after doing 
a 2-finger swipe on the screen and be alert for the phenomenon of VoiceOver 
becoming more and more audible.


Got this escalated to Apple support (from AT&T); Boy, Oh Boy, do I feel S T 
U P I D ! ! !


Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their 
guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) 



---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection 
is active.
http://www.avast.com

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new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any 
questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a 
member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators 
directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can 
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<>

Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Bill Gallik]

Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first to 
encounter arrows!


That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on other 
lists of course)!


Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their 
guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."

- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Rivard" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM
Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 
8.1.1



Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows.  Always, when a new
operating system is introduced, keep this in mind.

---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished,
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - 
From: "Bill Gallik" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might
be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming
until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to
see iOS 40.???!

The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has
been quite frustrating.  Prudence dictates that I (and other blind
individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS
versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution.

That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing
technology platforms.  I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to
maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that
seemingly completely disregards the customer investment  - yes indeed, I am
referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to
retain JAWS.  I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the
accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo
I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right."  I intend to buy a
Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific
because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about
protecting their customers' investments.

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their
guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple.
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email
list. What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had,
and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people
saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like
he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that
I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs
7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is
happy  with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about
accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government,
talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose
your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of
that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with
freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs,
and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or
any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Wednesday, November

to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Charles Rivard]

Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows.  Always, when a new 
operating system is introduced, keep this in mind.


---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, 
you! really! are! finished!
- Original Message - 
From: "Bill Gallik" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might
be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming
until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to
see iOS 40.???!

The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has
been quite frustrating.  Prudence dictates that I (and other blind
individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS
versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution.

That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing
technology platforms.  I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to
maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that
seemingly completely disregards the customer investment  - yes indeed, I am
referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to
retain JAWS.  I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the
accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo
I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right."  I intend to buy a
Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific
because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about
protecting their customers' investments.

Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their
guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple.
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email
list. What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had,
and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people
saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like
he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that
I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs
7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is
happy  with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about
accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government,
talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose
your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of
that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with
freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs,
and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or
any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly
thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.



On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  
wrote:


Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't 
restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8 
7.1.2  is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install 
IOs 8, liking or doesn't liking, I h

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Bill Gallik]

I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might 
be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming 
until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to 
see iOS 40.???!


The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has 
been quite frustrating.  Prudence dictates that I (and other blind 
individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS 
versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution.


That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing 
technology platforms.  I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to 
maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that 
seemingly completely disregards the customer investment  - yes indeed, I am 
referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to 
retain JAWS.  I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the 
accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo 
I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right."  I intend to buy a 
Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific 
because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about 
protecting their customers' investments.


Holland's Boy, Bill
- "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their 
guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."

- US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
Are you owner of apple?

No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
list. What is your problem?

That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
fair, is not good?

Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, 
and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people 
saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like 
he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 
7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is 
happy  with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
accessibility in apple devices, right?

Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, 
talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose 
your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of 
that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with 
freedom.

Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I 
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs, 
and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the 
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or 
any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.

And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Raul A. Gallegos

Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly 
thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.




On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  
wrote:


Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't 
restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8 
7.1.2  is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install 
IOs 8, liking or doesn't liking, I have to.
But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of 
treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind 
of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous 
mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. 
a Again, it was my last apple device.



---

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[RobH.]

I think he means, he usually means:-

if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real 
purpose on the list.   There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a 
few falling over them,  that at least was useful.
He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented 
so far.

I think that about summarises it,  hope I don't go getting flack for saying 
so.

Rh.

- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Morales" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
list. What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, 
and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people 
saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like 
he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 
7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is 
happy  with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, 
talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose 
your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of 
that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with 
freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I 
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs, 
and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the 
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or 
any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly 
thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.



> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  
> wrote:
>
> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't 
> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8 
> 7.1.2  is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install 
> IOs 8, liking or doesn't liking, I have to.
> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of 
> treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind 
> of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous 
> mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. 
> a Again, it was my last apple device.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
> Of Sieghard Weitzel
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:44 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1
>
> Then you should have stayed with iOS 7.1.2, the issues with bluetooth 
> keyboards and braille displays have been well documented. And in case you 
> wonder, no, you can't go back to iOS 7.1.2 any more.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
> Of Pablo Morales
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:52 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1
>
> Hi Sieghard.
> Well, I have been using Bluetooth keyboard since my first iphone 4, years 
> ago. The problem is that if I am using the Bluetooth keyboard, some times 
> the keyboard stop responding. I turn it off, but the virtual keyboard 
> doesn't appear,  so I turn on the BT, and is no way to make it to type, or 
> to make the iPhone respond. So I have to close what ever I was do

Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Terrie Arnold]

yes  many many  people  have  had  problems  with  the update  of ios.
so  what  if the keyboard  was talked  of  on this list  before  as  I just  
switched  from the 5  to  the 6 plus  and I did  not  pay attention  to the 
keyboard stuff as it  did not  apply to  myself  at  that  time. But  in 
getting  my  new phone and  trying to get  the  keybord set up/ I had  to learn 
 to  do  a few  things  different.
All of us are  on different  levels  as  to knowledge  of  the  iphone.  so  is 
this  list  not  to get  help  in doing  things  on  our  pc's  or  our phones 
/\. 
Yes  it is taking  Apple a long  time  to solve  the  problems  with voiceover  
and  seri  this  can cause  for  some of us to  pull  our hair out  over  these 
 issues , so  if  you  do think  that  one  thing  is asked  so  much  go  back 
and  look at  the  first  time  you ever  used  an  iphone  I am sure  that  
you do not  become a rocket  scientist  on the  first  go , its  a whole  new  
learning  curve  for  useing  this 
so  today  is  Thanksgiving  and  be  thankful  that  you  do know  how  to do  
things  and  be able  to pass  your  knowledge  on  to  others  that may  not  
be as  swift  as  you may be. 
so  god  bless  you  for  helping  people  that  need  the  help.
and  be  more  understanding  in  how frustrating these  issues  may be to 
others , god  is  guiding  your hand  as  you  help  others 
Happy  Thanksgiving  all
Terrie 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
> 
> Hi Raul.
> In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
> messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
> Are you owner of apple?
> No, right?
> Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
> accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
> list. What is your problem?
> That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
> No, it is not great, and you know that.
> That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
> allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
> fair, is not good?
> Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
> That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and 
> after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying 
> that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he 
> works with this matter, and has knowledge.
> What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
> I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 
> 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
> This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is 
> happy  with apple?
> No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
> accessibility in apple devices, right?
> Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
> You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, 
> talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose 
> your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of 
> that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom.
> Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
> I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I 
> got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs, and 
> also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the 
> Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or 
> any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
> And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly 
> thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't 
>> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2  
>> is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, 
>> liking or doesn't liking, I have to.
>> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of 
>> treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind 
>> of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous 
>> mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. a 
>> Again, it was my last apple device.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original 

Re: difference between touch typing and direct touch typing

[Christopher Chaltain]

Also with touch typing, even if you land right on top of the character 
you want to enter, you still need to wait a beat before the character is 
entered. This is so if you land on the wrong character you have a chance 
to move around and find the right character before lifting your finger. 
With touch typing, try just touching a character very quickly and 
lifting your finger. You'll see that it wasn't entered. This is to 
prevent erroneous characters from being typed.


With direct touch typing there is no pause. Just touch a character on 
the virtual keyboard as quickly as you can, and you'll see that it's 
entered immediately.


On 11/27/2014 09:58 AM, Jonathan Mosen wrote:

Hi Mike, direct touch typing is actually a pretty good description of
how the feature works. Rather than dragging your finger around the
screen and lifting your finger when you find the character you were
looking for, direct touch typing is designed for you to tap the
character exactly. It requires good muscle memory, but particularly on
an iPhone 6 Plus or an iPad, you can get speeds comparable to regular
touch typing on a PC or Mac with it if you practice enough and make good
use of auto-correct.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org


On 28/11/2014, at 4:55 am, Mike Arrigo mailto:n0...@charter.net>> wrote:

Hey everyone. I finally did upgrade to IOS 8.1.1, so far it seems to
work fine, only issue I have found so far is that the caller id does
not always speak. Anyway, wondering what the difference is between
touch typing and direct touch typing. The direct touch typing option
is new with IOS 8

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Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Terrie Arnold]

 yes  many many  people  have  had  problems  with  the update  of ios.
 so  what  if the keyboard  was talked  of  on this list  before  as  I just  
switched  from the 5  to  the 6 plus  and I did  not  pay attention  to the 
keyboard stuff as it  did not  apply to  myself  at  that  time. But  in 
getting  my  new phone and  trying to get  the  keybord set up/ I had  to learn 
 to  do  a few  things  different.
All of us are  on different  levels  as  to knowledge  of  the  iphone.  so  is 
this  list  not  to get  help  in doing  things  on  our  pc's  or  our phones 
/\. 
 Yes  it is taking  Apple a long  time  to solve  the  problems  with voiceover 
 and  seri  this  can cause  for  some of us to  pull  our hair out  over  
these  issues , so  if  you  do think  that  one  thing  is asked  so  much  go 
 back and  look at  the  first  time  you ever  used  an  iphone  I am sure  
that  you do not  become a rocket  scientist  on the  first  go , its  a whole  
new  learning  curve  for  useing  this 
 so  today  is  Thanksgiving  and  be  thankful  that  you  do know  how  to do 
 things  and  be able  to pass  your  knowledge  on  to  others  that may  not  
be as  swift  as  you may be. 
 so  god  bless  you  for  helping  people  that  need  the  help.
 and  be  more  understanding  in  how frustrating these  issues  may be to 
others , god  is  guiding  your hand  as  you  help  others 
 Happy  Thanksgiving  all
 Terrie 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
> 
> Hi Raul.
> In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
> messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
> Are you owner of apple?
> No, right?
> Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
> accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email 
> list. What is your problem?
> That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
> No, it is not great, and you know that.
> That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
> allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
> fair, is not good?
> Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
> That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and 
> after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying 
> that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he 
> works with this matter, and has knowledge.
> What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that 
> I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 
> 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
> This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is 
> happy  with apple?
> No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
> accessibility in apple devices, right?
> Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
> You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, 
> talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose 
> your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of 
> that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom.
> Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
> I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I 
> got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs, and 
> also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the 
> Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or 
> any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
> And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Raul A. Gallegos
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly 
> thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't 
>> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2  
>> is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, 
>> liking or doesn't liking, I have to.
>> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of 
>> treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind 
>> of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous 
>> mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. a 
>> Again, it was my last apple device.
>> 
>> 
>> -O

Re: difference between touch typing and direct touch typing

[Jonathan Mosen]

Hi Mike, direct touch typing is actually a pretty good description of how the 
feature works. Rather than dragging your finger around the screen and lifting 
your finger when you find the character you were looking for, direct touch 
typing is designed for you to tap the character exactly. It requires good 
muscle memory, but particularly on an iPhone 6 Plus or an iPad, you can get 
speeds comparable to regular touch typing on a PC or Mac with it if you 
practice enough and make good use of auto-correct.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

> On 28/11/2014, at 4:55 am, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> 
> Hey everyone. I finally did upgrade to IOS 8.1.1, so far it seems to work 
> fine, only issue I have found so far is that the caller id does not always 
> speak. Anyway, wondering what the difference is between touch typing and 
> direct touch typing. The direct touch typing option is new with IOS 8
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. 
> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any 
> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a 
> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators 
> directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list 
> can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/.
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Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Jonathan Mosen]

Hi Robin, you make a really important point. With all the extensability 
features added in iOS 8, there is still no Siri API. Imagine if you could ask 
Siri to read the latest John Grisham from Bookshare, which could cause Voice 
Dream to spring into action, tune into your favourite local station, which 
could cause TuneIn Radio to open, "Call me a taxi to pick me up", which could 
cause a taxi app to open pre-populated with your current address...the 
possibilities are endless.
Apple doesn't  like being behind. It has  the resources to fix Siri, which is 
clearly an offering not keeping pace, and I'm sure it will.
There's so much more room for intelligent use of natural language to be 
explored as well. But Siri absolutely needs an API.
An interesting footnote to my audio piece is that yesterday afternoon a few 
hours after recording it, I asked Siri how much the 11-inch Macbook Air 
weighed. Siri performed a web search and showed results on the screen, but when 
I asked the same question of Google Voice Search, it spoke me the precise 
answer. It was impressive on Google's part.
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

> On 28/11/2014, at 3:25 am, Robin  wrote:
> 
> In my opinion, Microsoft's Cortana, its Virtual Personal Assistant BLOWS 
> Apple's Siri OUT of the WATER in terms of what it can do. Also, Microsoft is 
> allowing its WP App Developers to incorporate the use of Microsoft's Cortana 
> with the functionality of apps. I only HOPE App Developers provide more 
> Microsoft Narrator friendly access as well as access to other disabled 
> populations without diminishing features of the apps.
> 
> At 05:18 AM 11/27/2014, you wrote:
>> Here in the United States there have been commercials over the last couple 
>> of months comparing Siri to the Windows phone personal assistant called 
>> Cortana. If you guys want some amusement go to YouTube and do a search for 
>> Siri Cortona commercials and you will be highly amused. One of my personal 
>> ones is the mirror mere.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:57 AM, Jonathan Mosen > > wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi kelly. This demonstrates that the vision of Siri has yet to be truly 
>>> fulfilled. The idea with such services as announced in 2011 was that you 
>>> could talk to your phone in natural language style, much like you would ask 
>>> your personal assistant a question. Indeed, Siri has been described as a 
>>> personal assistant. One shouldn't have to get a syntax just so in order to 
>>> get the answer you want. Natural language queries will improve over time, 
>>> and it is good to know that at least if you ask a question in just the 
>>> right way, you may get the answer you're looking for. Who knows what things 
>>> will be like a year from now, but at this point it seems Google can parse 
>>> queries a little more intelligently, at least in some cases.
>>> Apple seem to know it has some catch-up to do. Word is they are devoting 
>>> some serious new resources to improving what Siri can do. I suspect we will 
>>> see big things relating to Siri in iOS 9.
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org 
>>> 
 On 27/11/2014, at 1:59 pm, Kelly Pierce >>> > wrote:
 
 Jonathan,
 
 I was able to successfully convert $19.95 in American currency to New
 Zealand dollars.  first in converting currencies in SIRI, it is always
 important to say the name of the country using dollars, as multiple
 countries call their currency dollars.  I told both SIRI and Google
 quote "convert 19 point 95 United States dollars into New Zealand
 dollars" end quote.  I received the exact value from both SIRI and
 Google.  In your instance, it was an unfair comparison, disadvantaging
 Apple.  As discussed previously on this list, SIRI requires people to
 use the word convert at the beginning of a currency conversion.  SIRI
 taps into yahoo finance, which uses the command structure country
 followed by currency name of originating currency followed by the
 country name and currency name of destination currency.  when this
 syntax is used, SIRI can be used easily for currency conversion.
 
 What was interesting was that SIRI and Google reported a penny
 difference in your example.
 
 Kelly
 
 
 
 On 11/26/14, Jonathan Mosen mailto:jmo...@mosen.org>> 
 wrote:
> Hi Charles. That link takes you to the Audioboom website, which is a 
> popular
> way of creating and distributing audio. But here is the direct link to the
> MP3.
> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search.mp3
>  
> 
>  
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
>

difference between touch typing and direct touch typing

[Mike Arrigo]

Hey everyone. I finally did upgrade to IOS 8.1.1, so far it seems to work fine, 
only issue I have found so far is that the caller id does not always speak. 
Anyway, wondering what the difference is between touch typing and direct touch 
typing. The direct touch typing option is new with IOS 8

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Re: How do i make Sonos see i have a nas with music on it?

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi,
Thanks so much everyone who have answered. The problem has now been solved 
using just the method outlined below.
/Krister

> 27 nov 2014 kl. 15:54 skrev Jim Ruby :
> 
> Hi, here is what I did using sonos on the ios device.
> 
> Note I am using the beta 5.2.x
> 
> From sonos main menu double click sonos
> Double Click settings
> Dluble Click on manage music library
> Double Click on Music library setup
> Double Click on more options
> Double Click on add new share
> Path edit You would enter something like
> \\yournas\sharename/path/folder
> Some examples
> \\nas\jim/media
> \\nas\media/music
> This presumes your nas has an assigned ip, you need the ip try
> \\192.168.1.123\media/music
> 
> Next enter the user name and password
> Double Click next
> 
> 
> Hope this helps
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Krister Ekstrom
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 5:35 AM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: How do i make Sonos see i have a nas with music on it?
> 
> Hi, as you know by now, i am a bear with a very, very small brain so that’s 
> why i can’t get my thick head around how to make Sonos play from my Nas where 
> i will have all of my music and mp3 books stored as well as my Itunes 
> library. My nas is a Netgear Readynas Ultra ii and i want to be able to play 
> music from it even if my computer isn’t on. Is this at all possible or should 
> i forget the idea alltogether?
> /Krister
> 
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RE: turning voice over on and off

[Richard Turner]

A couple things.  If you have a case on the phone, make sure it is not loose.  
I had a case that until I made sure it was on correctly, I could not get a 
triple click of the home button to work.

 

Also, the clicks need to be within about a half second of each other.

 

Make sure in Settings, General Accessibility that the Accessibility Shortcut 
says VoiceOver.

 

HTH,

Richard

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
alia robinson
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 7:20 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: turning voice over on and off

 

if it opened the app switcher you are only pressing it twice. 

 

Alia

On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:23 AM, Pablo Morales mailto:pablomorale...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

In my phone now, after 8.1.1, when I press 3 times the homebutton, it opens the 
app switcher now, it doesn’t turn off or on VO. Before with IOs 7.1.2  did 
pretty well, but now No.

 

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Re: turning voice over on and off

[alia robinson]

if it opened the app switcher you are only pressing it twice. 

Alia
> On Nov 27, 2014, at 9:23 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
> 
> In my phone now, after 8.1.1, when I press 3 times the homebutton, it opens 
> the app switcher now, it doesn’t turn off or on VO. Before with IOs 7.1.2  
> did pretty well, but now No.

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RE: How do i make Sonos see i have a nas with music on it?

[Jim Ruby]

Hi, here is what I did using sonos on the ios device.

Note I am using the beta 5.2.x

>From sonos main menu double click sonos
Double Click settings
Dluble Click on manage music library
Double Click on Music library setup
Double Click on more options
Double Click on add new share
Path edit You would enter something like
\\yournas\sharename/path/folder
Some examples
\\nas\jim/media
\\nas\media/music
This presumes your nas has an assigned ip, you need the ip try
\\192.168.1.123\media/music

Next enter the user name and password
Double Click next


Hope this helps

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Krister Ekstrom
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 5:35 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: How do i make Sonos see i have a nas with music on it?

Hi, as you know by now, i am a bear with a very, very small brain so that’s why 
i can’t get my thick head around how to make Sonos play from my Nas where i 
will have all of my music and mp3 books stored as well as my Itunes library. My 
nas is a Netgear Readynas Ultra ii and i want to be able to play music from it 
even if my computer isn’t on. Is this at all possible or should i forget the 
idea alltogether?
/Krister

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Solution to Texting Problem with Braille Display

[Jerry Berrier]

Maybe everyone else already knew this, but I just learned that hitting the
space with e command after entering the phone number in a text message will
usually take you to the text area.  I've tried it several times, and it
seems to work, when everything else I tried did not.

 

On this Thanksgiving day I'm thankful for chord e.  Smiles.

 

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Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Pete Nalda]

My only concern, is if windows phone has a screen reader that can read books 
for me. If it had that, I'd might take another look. 

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda
Facebook.com/lpnalda
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter: @lpnalda

> On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:25 AM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> In my opinion, Microsoft's Cortana, its Virtual Personal Assistant BLOWS 
> Apple's Siri OUT of the WATER in terms of what it can do. Also, Microsoft is 
> allowing its WP App Developers to incorporate the use of Microsoft's Cortana 
> with the functionality of apps. I only HOPE App Developers provide more 
> Microsoft Narrator friendly access as well as access to other disabled 
> populations without diminishing features of the apps.
> 
> At 05:18 AM 11/27/2014, you wrote:
>> Here in the United States there have been commercials over the last couple 
>> of months comparing Siri to the Windows phone personal assistant called 
>> Cortana. If you guys want some amusement go to YouTube and do a search for 
>> Siri Cortona commercials and you will be highly amused. One of my personal 
>> ones is the mirror mere.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:57 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi kelly. This demonstrates that the vision of Siri has yet to be truly 
>>> fulfilled. The idea with such services as announced in 2011 was that you 
>>> could talk to your phone in natural language style, much like you would ask 
>>> your personal assistant a question. Indeed, Siri has been described as a 
>>> personal assistant. One shouldn't have to get a syntax just so in order to 
>>> get the answer you want. Natural language queries will improve over time, 
>>> and it is good to know that at least if you ask a question in just the 
>>> right way, you may get the answer you're looking for. Who knows what things 
>>> will be like a year from now, but at this point it seems Google can parse 
>>> queries a little more intelligently, at least in some cases.
>>> Apple seem to know it has some catch-up to do. Word is they are devoting 
>>> some serious new resources to improving what Siri can do. I suspect we will 
>>> see big things relating to Siri in iOS 9.
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org
>>> 
 On 27/11/2014, at 1:59 pm, Kelly Pierce  wrote:
 
 Jonathan,
 
 I was able to successfully convert $19.95 in American currency to New
 Zealand dollars.  first in converting currencies in SIRI, it is always
 important to say the name of the country using dollars, as multiple
 countries call their currency dollars.  I told both SIRI and Google
 quote "convert 19 point 95 United States dollars into New Zealand
 dollars" end quote.  I received the exact value from both SIRI and
 Google.  In your instance, it was an unfair comparison, disadvantaging
 Apple.  As discussed previously on this list, SIRI requires people to
 use the word convert at the beginning of a currency conversion.  SIRI
 taps into yahoo finance, which uses the command structure country
 followed by currency name of originating currency followed by the
 country name and currency name of destination currency.  when this
 syntax is used, SIRI can be used easily for currency conversion.
 
 What was interesting was that SIRI and Google reported a penny
 difference in your example.
 
 Kelly
 
 
 
> On 11/26/14, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
> Hi Charles. That link takes you to the Audioboom website, which is a 
> popular
> way of creating and distributing audio. But here is the direct link to the
> MP3.
> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search.mp3
>  
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org
> 
>> On 27/11/2014, at 8:46 am, Charles Rivard  wrote:
>> 
>> How do I get this audio recording into a folder of audio recordings that
>> is on my PC?  The link you supplied takes me to your web site, but what
>> would be the next step or steps?  Thanks.
>> 
>> ---
>> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
>> finished, you! really! are! finished!
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Jonathan Mosen 
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com < mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:41 AM
>>> Subject: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone. I've put together a half-hour comparison of Siri and Google
>>> Voice Search, performing a range of tasks.
>>> Hope some of you find it useful.
>>> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search
>>>  
>>> < 
>>> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-

Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Robin]

In my opinion, Microsoft's Cortana, its Virtual Personal Assistant 
BLOWS Apple's Siri OUT of the WATER in terms of what it can do. Also, 
Microsoft is allowing its WP App Developers to incorporate the use of 
Microsoft's Cortana with the functionality of apps. I only HOPE App 
Developers provide more Microsoft Narrator friendly access as well as 
access to other disabled populations without diminishing features of the apps.


At 05:18 AM 11/27/2014, you wrote:
Here in the United States there have been commercials over the last 
couple of months comparing Siri to the Windows phone personal 
assistant called Cortana. If you guys want some amusement go to 
YouTube and do a search for Siri Cortona commercials and you will be 
highly amused. One of my personal ones is the mirror mere.




On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:57 AM, Jonathan Mosen 
<jmo...@mosen.org> wrote:


Hi kelly. This demonstrates that the vision of Siri has yet to be 
truly fulfilled. The idea with such services as announced in 2011 
was that you could talk to your phone in natural language style, 
much like you would ask your personal assistant a question. Indeed, 
Siri has been described as a personal assistant. One shouldn't have 
to get a syntax just so in order to get the answer you want. 
Natural language queries will improve over time, and it is good to 
know that at least if you ask a question in just the right way, you 
may get the answer you're looking for. Who knows what things will 
be like a year from now, but at this point it seems Google can 
parse queries a little more intelligently, at least in some cases.
Apple seem to know it has some catch-up to do. Word is they are 
devoting some serious new resources to improving what Siri can do. 
I suspect we will see big things relating to Siri in iOS 9.

Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

On 27/11/2014, at 1:59 pm, Kelly Pierce 
<kellyt...@gmail.com> wrote:


Jonathan,

I was able to successfully convert $19.95 in American currency to New
Zealand dollars.  first in converting currencies in SIRI, it is always
important to say the name of the country using dollars, as multiple
countries call their currency dollars.  I told both SIRI and Google
quote "convert 19 point 95 United States dollars into New Zealand
dollars" end quote.  I received the exact value from both SIRI and
Google.  In your instance, it was an unfair comparison, disadvantaging
Apple.  As discussed previously on this list, SIRI requires people to
use the word convert at the beginning of a currency conversion.  SIRI
taps into yahoo finance, which uses the command structure country
followed by currency name of originating currency followed by the
country name and currency name of destination currency.  when this
syntax is used, SIRI can be used easily for currency conversion.

What was interesting was that SIRI and Google reported a penny
difference in your example.

Kelly



On 11/26/14, Jonathan Mosen 
<jmo...@mosen.org> wrote:
Hi Charles. That link takes you to the Audioboom website, which 
is a popular

way of creating and distributing audio. But here is the direct link to the
MP3.
https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search.mp3
Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

On 27/11/2014, at 8:46 am, Charles Rivard 
<wee1s...@fidnet.com> wrote:


How do I get this audio recording into a folder of audio recordings that
is on my PC?  The link you supplied takes me to your web site, but what
would be the next step or steps?  Thanks.

---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
finished, you! really! are! finished!

- Original Message -
From: Jonathan Mosen <mailto:jmo...@mosen.org>
To: viphone@googlegroups.com 


Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:41 AM
Subject: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

Hi everyone. I've put together a half-hour comparison of Siri and Google
Voice Search, performing a range of tasks.
Hope some of you find it useful.
https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search

Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org 

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RE: turning voice over on and off

[Pablo Morales]

In my phone now, after 8.1.1, when I press 3 times the homebutton, it opens the 
app switcher now, it doesn’t turn off or on VO. Before with IOs 7.1.2  did 
pretty well, but now No.

 

, 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:39 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: turning voice over on and off

 

Make sure that this is setup in accessibility settings. If it is then it is a 
triple click of the home button not a 4-times click.

 

 

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
JR Vaughn
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 7:59 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: turning voice over on and off

 

List, 

This is to clarify the issue in my previous message.

Recently Apple Care replaced my 9 month old 5S running latest IOS 7 with a new 
5S also running latest IOS7

On my  old 5S, I could press the home key four times quickly to toggle voice 
over on and off so my sighted wife could use the phone with regular IPhone 
commands. This command is not working on the new phone.

 

I can still use the three  finger   double tap to turn speech on and off, but 
that does not turn voice over on and off. I can still have Siri turn voice over 
off, but then I need sighted assistance to turn voice over on again. 

Any thoughts.

John

P.S. I am fairly New to this helpful list and appreciate the tips.. 

 

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RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

[Pablo Morales]

Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the 
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. 
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the 
accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. 
What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.
That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not 
allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not 
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.
That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and 
after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that 
IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with 
this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see that I 
wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 
that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy  
with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about 
accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking 
very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, 
and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my 
country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I 
got the freedom to say that I am getting a  lot of problems with the IOs, and 
also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the 
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any 
body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly 
thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up.



> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales  wrote:
> 
> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't 
> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2  
> is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, 
> liking or doesn't liking, I have to.
> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of treatment 
> from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind of problems 
> with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous mistakes, 
> again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. a Again, it 
> was my last apple device.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Sieghard Weitzel
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:44 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> Then you should have stayed with iOS 7.1.2, the issues with bluetooth 
> keyboards and braille displays have been well documented. And in case you 
> wonder, no, you can't go back to iOS 7.1.2 any more.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Pablo Morales
> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:52 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1
> 
> Hi Sieghard.
> Well, I have been using Bluetooth keyboard since my first iphone 4, years 
> ago. The problem is that if I am using the Bluetooth keyboard, some times the 
> keyboard stop responding. I turn it off, but the virtual keyboard doesn't 
> appear,  so I turn on the BT, and is no way to make it to type, or to make 
> the iPhone respond. So I have to close what ever I was doing, and try again. 
> Other times, if my iPhone gets the lock screen, and I try to deactivate the 
> lock screen using my BT, it just doesn't respond, but it doesn't happen 
> always, it happen some times.
> Other times, if I am trying to type the info in several text boxes, with the 
> bt is no way to jump and type several text boxes. I type in the first a few 
> boxes, but later the bt keyboard stop working.
> It is very bad, because my bt was working perfectly in IOs7.1.2.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@google

Re: gold iPhone

[Terrie Arnold]

  have  the  gold  iphone  and it is only  gold  on the  back of the phone  the 
 front  is  white   you only see  the  gold  where  the  camara

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:48 AM, RobH.  wrote:
> 
> Yes, we have.
> Was there more to this question?
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Zee Dee" 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:36 AM
> Subject: gold iPhone
> 
> 
> Hi there!
> Does any one have an gold iPhone?
> 
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Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Here in the United States there have been commercials over the last couple of 
months comparing Siri to the Windows phone personal assistant called Cortana. 
If you guys want some amusement go to YouTube and do a search for Siri Cortona 
commercials and you will be highly amused. One of my personal ones is the 
mirror mere.



> On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:57 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
> 
> Hi kelly. This demonstrates that the vision of Siri has yet to be truly 
> fulfilled. The idea with such services as announced in 2011 was that you 
> could talk to your phone in natural language style, much like you would ask 
> your personal assistant a question. Indeed, Siri has been described as a 
> personal assistant. One shouldn't have to get a syntax just so in order to 
> get the answer you want. Natural language queries will improve over time, and 
> it is good to know that at least if you ask a question in just the right way, 
> you may get the answer you're looking for. Who knows what things will be like 
> a year from now, but at this point it seems Google can parse queries a little 
> more intelligently, at least in some cases.
> Apple seem to know it has some catch-up to do. Word is they are devoting some 
> serious new resources to improving what Siri can do. I suspect we will see 
> big things relating to Siri in iOS 9.
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org
> 
>> On 27/11/2014, at 1:59 pm, Kelly Pierce  wrote:
>> 
>> Jonathan,
>> 
>> I was able to successfully convert $19.95 in American currency to New
>> Zealand dollars.  first in converting currencies in SIRI, it is always
>> important to say the name of the country using dollars, as multiple
>> countries call their currency dollars.  I told both SIRI and Google
>> quote "convert 19 point 95 United States dollars into New Zealand
>> dollars" end quote.  I received the exact value from both SIRI and
>> Google.  In your instance, it was an unfair comparison, disadvantaging
>> Apple.  As discussed previously on this list, SIRI requires people to
>> use the word convert at the beginning of a currency conversion.  SIRI
>> taps into yahoo finance, which uses the command structure country
>> followed by currency name of originating currency followed by the
>> country name and currency name of destination currency.  when this
>> syntax is used, SIRI can be used easily for currency conversion.
>> 
>> What was interesting was that SIRI and Google reported a penny
>> difference in your example.
>> 
>> Kelly
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 11/26/14, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>>> Hi Charles. That link takes you to the Audioboom website, which is a popular
>>> way of creating and distributing audio. But here is the direct link to the
>>> MP3.
>>> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search.mp3
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org
>>> 
 On 27/11/2014, at 8:46 am, Charles Rivard  wrote:
 
 How do I get this audio recording into a folder of audio recordings that
 is on my PC?  The link you supplied takes me to your web site, but what
 would be the next step or steps?  Thanks.
 
 ---
 Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
 finished, you! really! are! finished!
> - Original Message -
> From: Jonathan Mosen 
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:41 AM
> Subject: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search
> 
> Hi everyone. I've put together a half-hour comparison of Siri and Google
> Voice Search, performing a range of tasks.
> Hope some of you find it useful.
> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search
> 
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org 
> 
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Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Personally I find that Google voice search gives answers and clear ones more 
quickly than Siri.



> On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:23 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
> 
> Hi kerri, this demonstration examines the two voice search options as I 
> experience them. The question needs to be asked, if Google can look for 
> businesses in more countries, why is Apple behind in this regard? There is an 
> increasing disparity emerging not just with Siri, but also with iTunes Radio 
> and now Apple Pay. Yet people pay the same price for their iphones.
> This limitation only affects a couple of the questions asked, however, and 
> it's made clear when this is the case. Most of the others will be answered 
> similarly no matter where in the world you live. .
> The best thing people can do, I think, is try both apps and see which works 
> best for them in any given scenario.
> Jonathan Mosen
> Mosen Consulting
> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
> http://Mosen.org
> 
>> On 27/11/2014, at 12:54 pm, Kerri G  wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks, Jonathan for this excellent review:
>> 
>> I find that both Siri and Google have advantages and disadvantages.  
>> However, knowing Siri isn’t available  in New Zealand, is that a fair test? 
>>> On Nov 26, 2014, at 6:41 AM, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi everyone. I've put together a half-hour comparison of Siri and Google 
>>> Voice Search, performing a range of tasks.
>>> Hope some of you find it useful.
>>> https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search
>>> Jonathan Mosen
>>> Mosen Consulting
>>> Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
>>> http://Mosen.org
>>> 
>>> 
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Re: Google Play Music, Accessible?

[Raul A. Gallegos]

Hello. This service and this app is completely accessible to me. I used the app 
and voiceover does speak all of the things necessary to use the app. It used to 
not be this way but in the latest three or four versions it has worked fine.



> On Nov 27, 2014, at 3:02 AM, Arnold Schmidt  wrote:
> 
> One of my sighted friends with an Android phone was telling me about Google 
> Play Music.  I do not remember its being mentioned in the discussion of the 
> music streaming services.  Is it accessible?There is an app for it in the App 
> store.  Thanks in advance for any opinions.
>  
> Arnold Schmidt 
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adventures with iCloud backups

[Paul Ferrara]

Happy Thanksgiving to all,

I am trying to get an iCloud backup for my friend’s 4s; iCloud keeps asking me 
to put in his password, and it keeps saying backup is incomplete.

What is going on; what settings should I look at?

Thanks.

Paul

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Re: Persistent Bug with Repeated Characters in Edit Fields With External Keyboards, Or is This Just Me?

[rhondaprincess]

Sent from my iPad

> On Nov 18, 2014, at 12:29 PM, Teresa Cochran  wrote:
> 
> Hi, all. 
> 
> This has been a problem for me intermittently since I've owned an iThingy, 
> but now it's the worst ever. I've updated to iOS8.1.1, and I'm basically 
> happy with it. But this repeated keystroke thing is getting to the point that 
> I'm using dictation and the onscreen keyboard a lot. This happens with my 
> Focus 40 Braille display and my Anker Bluetooth keyboard. Anyone else 
> experiencing this?
> 
> Thanks,
> Teresa
> 
> "We can see with the eyes, but we see with the brain as well, and seeing with 
> the brain is often called imagination."--Oliver Sacks
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.. Yes I am seeing 
> the same problem when I use my Logitech Bluetooth keyboard on my iPad mini. 
> Running in the latest iOS version.

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Re: turning voice over on and off

[RobH.]

I still can't see the distinction;  clicking the Home button 3 times is all 
it takes to turn voice over off/on when it is set.  Since you had your phone 
reset, it is almost certainly not set now.  But pressing and hold the Home 
button until you hear that double beep that Siri does, then say "turn 
voiceover On", and she should do it.  Then you do as Chris said, think it 
was Chris, I know I did too;  settings/general/accessibility and find that 
accessibility short cut thing so you can change the triple click home to 
voiceover.  The default is None.

Hth, RobH, again.
- Original Message - 
From: "JR Vaughn" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 3:58 PM
Subject: turning voice over on and off


List,
This is to clarify the issue in my previous message.
Recently Apple Care replaced my 9 month old 5S running latest IOS 7 with a
new 5S also running latest IOS7
On my  old 5S, I could press the home key four times quickly to toggle voice
over on and off so my sighted wife could use the phone with regular IPhone
commands. This command is not working on the new phone.

I can still use the three  finger   double tap to turn speech on and off,
but that does not turn voice over on and off. I can still have Siri turn
voice over off, but then I need sighted assistance to turn voice over on
again.
Any thoughts.
John
P.S. I am fairly New to this helpful list and appreciate the tips..


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Google Play Music, Accessible?

[Arnold Schmidt]

One of my sighted friends with an Android phone was telling me about Google 
Play Music.  I do not remember its being mentioned in the discussion of the 
music streaming services.  Is it accessible?There is an app for it in the App 
store.  Thanks in advance for any opinions.

Arnold Schmidt  

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Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

[Arnold Schmidt]

I have had Google Search on my phone for maybe a year, and find it to be a 
great complement to Searie.  I put it onto my phone because I was, and still 
am, as it were,  somewhat underwhelmed by Searie. My friends with Android 
phones seemed to be able to do very easily some things that Searie wouldn't do, 
or had a hard time doing, such as giving me an address or phone number of a 
local business.  I am glad I have them both, some things one will do better, 
some things, the other one will do better.  I think if I only could have one, I 
would choose Google, but I assure you, it has its issues, too.I am glad I 
learned how to use my iPhone with the touch screen, rather than having to rely 
on these voice assistants to try to do everything.  

Arnold Schmidt

 
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jonathan Mosen 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:57 AM
  Subject: Re: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search


  Hi kelly. This demonstrates that the vision of Siri has yet to be truly 
fulfilled. The idea with such services as announced in 2011 was that you could 
talk to your phone in natural language style, much like you would ask your 
personal assistant a question. Indeed, Siri has been described as a personal 
assistant. One shouldn't have to get a syntax just so in order to get the 
answer you want. Natural language queries will improve over time, and it is 
good to know that at least if you ask a question in just the right way, you may 
get the answer you're looking for. Who knows what things will be like a year 
from now, but at this point it seems Google can parse queries a little more 
intelligently, at least in some cases.
  Apple seem to know it has some catch-up to do. Word is they are devoting some 
serious new resources to improving what Siri can do. I suspect we will see big 
things relating to Siri in iOS 9.

  Jonathan Mosen
  Mosen Consulting
  Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
  http://Mosen.org


On 27/11/2014, at 1:59 pm, Kelly Pierce  wrote:


Jonathan,

I was able to successfully convert $19.95 in American currency to New
Zealand dollars.  first in converting currencies in SIRI, it is always
important to say the name of the country using dollars, as multiple
countries call their currency dollars.  I told both SIRI and Google
quote "convert 19 point 95 United States dollars into New Zealand
dollars" end quote.  I received the exact value from both SIRI and
Google.  In your instance, it was an unfair comparison, disadvantaging
Apple.  As discussed previously on this list, SIRI requires people to
use the word convert at the beginning of a currency conversion.  SIRI
taps into yahoo finance, which uses the command structure country
followed by currency name of originating currency followed by the
country name and currency name of destination currency.  when this
syntax is used, SIRI can be used easily for currency conversion.

What was interesting was that SIRI and Google reported a penny
difference in your example.

Kelly



On 11/26/14, Jonathan Mosen  wrote:

  Hi Charles. That link takes you to the Audioboom website, which is a 
popular
  way of creating and distributing audio. But here is the direct link to the
  MP3.
  
https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search.mp3
  Jonathan Mosen
  Mosen Consulting
  Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
  http://Mosen.org


On 27/11/2014, at 8:46 am, Charles Rivard  wrote:

How do I get this audio recording into a folder of audio recordings that
is on my PC?  The link you supplied takes me to your web site, but what
would be the next step or steps?  Thanks.

---
Be positive!  When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're
finished, you! really! are! finished!

  - Original Message -
  From: Jonathan Mosen 
  To: viphone@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:41 AM
  Subject: Audio Demonstration: Siri versus Google Voice Search

  Hi everyone. I've put together a half-hour comparison of Siri and 
Google
  Voice Search, performing a range of tasks.
  Hope some of you find it useful.
  
https://audioboom.com/boos/2684908-audio-comparison-siri-versus-google-voice-search
  

  Jonathan Mosen
  Mosen Consulting
  Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
  http://Mosen.org 

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  ha

Re: Turning voice over off and on

[RobH.]

The two obvious:-
why not use Siri to turn voiceover back on, it works just the same.

second, go to settings/general/accessibility, and go to the end of that 
section where there is an option to set the home key feature;  can't 
remember how it's prased now, they changed it.

Rh.
- Original Message - 
From: "JR Vaughn" 
To: 
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 3:11 PM
Subject: Turning voice over off and on


List, Recently Apple Care replaced my 9 month old 5S running latest IOS 7 
with a new 5S also running latest IOS7
On my  old 5S, I could press the home key four times quickly to toggle voice 
over on and off so my sighted wife could use the phone with regular IPhone 
commands.
I can still use the three  finger   double tap to turn speech on and off, 
but that does not turn voice over on and off. I can still have Siri turn 
voice over off, but then I need sighted assistance to turn voice over on 
again.
Any thoughts.
John
P.S. I am fairly New to this helpful list and appreciate the tips..
This is not working on the new phone..
-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
Of Christopher Hallsworth
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2014 3:19 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: How do I return to the English compact voice?

They're not called compact now they are called default, not sure why but
I saw the logic right from the first iOS 8.0 beta, default is the lower
quality voice, enhanced is the higher quality voice. Think of default as
the voice that is shipped with iOS 8 and enhanced as the voice
downloaded and installed to improve the overall quality, hence enhanced.

On 21/11/2014 23:28, Neal Ewers wrote:
> Hi, when I updated the OS today, I selected the enhanced voice. Now I want
> to go back to the compact voice. I don't see how to do this in iOS 8.
>
>
>
> Thanks for any help.
>
>
>
> Neal
>
>
>

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Re: gold iPhone

[RobH.]

Yes, we have.
Was there more to this question?
- Original Message - 
From: "Zee Dee" 
To: 
Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 10:36 AM
Subject: gold iPhone


Hi there!
Does any one have an gold iPhone?

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Re: Fantastical 2

[Ioana Gandrabur]

JYou can customize the widget in fantastical settings. I set it to show only 
events and it now works like the native widget of calendar. 
Hth,

Ioana




Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 26, 2014, at 4:35 PM, Wayne Merritt  wrote:
> 
> I'm glad the native calendar has finally improved and caught up. I
> still use Fantastical 2, for the combination of reminders and
> appointments in the same place, for more alert options, and ease of
> use. Fortunately, the native calendar and Fantastical work together
> quite well, so I could schedule an appointment in one and it would
> appear in the other. I tried the Fantastical 2 today widget but
> there's too much information in there for my liking. I like the idea
> of widgets, but want them to be short and simple, to give me what I
> need to know without too much fuss. I would still recommend
> Fantastical 2, but if you like more scheduling options and are
> satisfied with the native calendar, then that works.
> 
> Wayne
> 
>> On 11/26/14, Jessica Dail  wrote:
>> As I have found, it's extremely tricky to do this using voice over. Can
>> someone give me the steps?
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Nov 26, 2014, at 11:57 AM, Bill Gallik  wrote:
>>> 
>>> While I was a huge Fantastical fan at one time, I see that the 8.
>>> native calendar app offers the ability to set repeat events on a "1st
>>> Monday of each month" or "3rd Thursday of each month" basis so I am quite
>>> satisfied with that native app.
>>> 
>>> Holland's Boy, Bill
>>> - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off
>>> their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more."
>>> - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: Steve & Shannon Cook
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 8:08 AM
>>> Subject: Fantastical 2
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> Fantastical 2 is on sell in the app store today for $1.99, normally
>>> $2.99.
>>> 
>>> Steve and Shannon Cook
>>> Today I married my best friend.
>>> The one that I laugh with, live for, love.
>>> October 11, 2003
>>> 
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>>> 
>>>  
>>> This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus
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>>> 
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