RE: An oddity with contacts
Well, for 32 year or so we were told recast sentences that begin with numbers, change verb tenses as necessary, and most definitely which we still do, if the doctor says some outrageous dose such as a thyroid medication of 125 mg to change that to mcg, micrograms. There were other things like adding in headings even if not dictated that we were supposed to do. Now it is a mixed bag, I got a reprimand for not adding a heading by one person and told by another if it was not dictated don't add it by another, both of them are higher on the food chain than I am. If I could make a living transcribing podcasts and have medical insurance and other benefits, I'd probably consider reducing my time at the hospital but, I have to have the medical insurance, the retirement fund, and vacation time I now get. I also realize my transcription vocabulary is broad in medical and zilch in legal or in pop culture terms. Heck, I have problems with street drugs a lot, Google is my friend. I still have to think how to spell Cannibis or marijuana. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Betty Emmons Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 3:50 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts what short time i did medical transcribing I was told to type exactly what I heard. Betty Emmons - Original Message - From: "Rose Combs" To: Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 6:58 PM Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts Transcription even for a fast typist is time-consuming. Dialog in fact is probably the most difficult especially if you don't know who is speaking. Then you have the laughter, or the "I am thinking" sounds people make and you have to decide if it detracts from the transcript if you don't put that in. Verbatim transcription with no attempt at phrasing something so it can be better understood is something most people are offended with but, I have done medical transcription for 36 years and until the past two years we have been expected to clean it up without changing the meaning. Then someone said type verbatim, even if it is incorrect, but then there are exceptions to that rule also according to the quality assurance folks so it is a whole mess of stuff you have to consider. I know when I transcribe a couple of meetings for folks and did not know who was speaking it was frustrating, especially in one case when someone was very unhappy and very verbal and I could not put a name to that person. I tried transcribing a bookshare meeting off Access World about six years ago, the recording was just over an hour and it took me 6 hours to transcribe and it was something like 25 pages as I recall. That is from someone who types fast. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts And here we have some of the problems. Advertisers are constantly seeking visual methods to draw the eye of people away from the main content of the page over to their advertisements. Web authors are trying to keep the person's eyes on the page material, yet allowing the ads to help cover the costs of the page and maybe make a profit. Designs and techniques are constantly changing, so it is impossible for automatic systems to keep up with the ever-changing variability. The standard screen reader response is to somehow script specific complex webpages (Jaws) or flag and otherwise mark-up aspects of webpages. Aria is a system that web developers can use which has been accepted by the screen readers. However, most web developers will probably never use it any more than they have ever used accessibility techniques in the past. We are a tiny minority, so most never think our accessibility needs. Though I would love to see it be otherwise, I am a realist. We are way beneath the average web-developer's notice, so it will most likely always be an uphill battle. Consider it this way. How many of you who make podcasts create written transcriptions of your podcast for the deaf? I have seen very few. You probably never thought of the fact that you are discriminating against the deaf exactly the same way with your podcast that sighted people are discriminating against you with inaccessible web pages. Oh, and if your podcast were for certain governmental information websites, you would be required to make the podcast information accessible to everyone, including those who are deaf. In other words, you would need to sit down and transcribe everything that is said in the podcast, and place it alongside the podcast so the deaf can have equal access. For me, at least, it takes several hours to transcribe a half hour interview. I am a slow typist. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPh
Re: An oddity with contacts
what short time i did medical transcribing I was told to type exactly what I heard. Betty Emmons - Original Message - From: "Rose Combs" To: Sent: Friday, April 26, 2013 6:58 PM Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts Transcription even for a fast typist is time-consuming. Dialog in fact is probably the most difficult especially if you don't know who is speaking. Then you have the laughter, or the "I am thinking" sounds people make and you have to decide if it detracts from the transcript if you don't put that in. Verbatim transcription with no attempt at phrasing something so it can be better understood is something most people are offended with but, I have done medical transcription for 36 years and until the past two years we have been expected to clean it up without changing the meaning. Then someone said type verbatim, even if it is incorrect, but then there are exceptions to that rule also according to the quality assurance folks so it is a whole mess of stuff you have to consider. I know when I transcribe a couple of meetings for folks and did not know who was speaking it was frustrating, especially in one case when someone was very unhappy and very verbal and I could not put a name to that person. I tried transcribing a bookshare meeting off Access World about six years ago, the recording was just over an hour and it took me 6 hours to transcribe and it was something like 25 pages as I recall. That is from someone who types fast. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts And here we have some of the problems. Advertisers are constantly seeking visual methods to draw the eye of people away from the main content of the page over to their advertisements. Web authors are trying to keep the person's eyes on the page material, yet allowing the ads to help cover the costs of the page and maybe make a profit. Designs and techniques are constantly changing, so it is impossible for automatic systems to keep up with the ever-changing variability. The standard screen reader response is to somehow script specific complex webpages (Jaws) or flag and otherwise mark-up aspects of webpages. Aria is a system that web developers can use which has been accepted by the screen readers. However, most web developers will probably never use it any more than they have ever used accessibility techniques in the past. We are a tiny minority, so most never think our accessibility needs. Though I would love to see it be otherwise, I am a realist. We are way beneath the average web-developer's notice, so it will most likely always be an uphill battle. Consider it this way. How many of you who make podcasts create written transcriptions of your podcast for the deaf? I have seen very few. You probably never thought of the fact that you are discriminating against the deaf exactly the same way with your podcast that sighted people are discriminating against you with inaccessible web pages. Oh, and if your podcast were for certain governmental information websites, you would be required to make the podcast information accessible to everyone, including those who are deaf. In other words, you would need to sit down and transcribe everything that is said in the podcast, and place it alongside the podcast so the deaf can have equal access. For me, at least, it takes several hours to transcribe a half hour interview. I am a slow typist. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 13:04, Christopher Chaltain wrote: The results of these studies on how the blind work with web sites surprise me a bit, but I wonder how much of this goes back to how JAWS presents web content to the JAWS user. Even so, I distinctly recall using the JAWS cursor with web pages to explore how they're laid out and how they appear to sighted users. I did this even more frequently when JAWS allowed for alternate web page presentations, and I started using a screen reader like Orca which doesn't change the lay out of the page much at all. I don't recall how much NVDA manipulates the presentation of the web. It would be interesting to know the results of these studies with blind people who predominantly use Orca instead of JAWS. I do think it'll always take the blind a bit longer to digest information on a web page than it will for sighted users. Just as I can't take in a list of email messages at a glance, focusing in on the unread messages based on colors, or automatically jump to the interesting part of a spread sheet, I'm not going to be able to follow the visual queues on a web page directing the sighted user to the pertinent portion of the web page. Ironically, I think screen reader technology is going to
RE: An oddity with contacts
Transcription even for a fast typist is time-consuming. Dialog in fact is probably the most difficult especially if you don't know who is speaking. Then you have the laughter, or the "I am thinking" sounds people make and you have to decide if it detracts from the transcript if you don't put that in. Verbatim transcription with no attempt at phrasing something so it can be better understood is something most people are offended with but, I have done medical transcription for 36 years and until the past two years we have been expected to clean it up without changing the meaning. Then someone said type verbatim, even if it is incorrect, but then there are exceptions to that rule also according to the quality assurance folks so it is a whole mess of stuff you have to consider. I know when I transcribe a couple of meetings for folks and did not know who was speaking it was frustrating, especially in one case when someone was very unhappy and very verbal and I could not put a name to that person. I tried transcribing a bookshare meeting off Access World about six years ago, the recording was just over an hour and it took me 6 hours to transcribe and it was something like 25 pages as I recall. That is from someone who types fast. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts And here we have some of the problems. Advertisers are constantly seeking visual methods to draw the eye of people away from the main content of the page over to their advertisements. Web authors are trying to keep the person's eyes on the page material, yet allowing the ads to help cover the costs of the page and maybe make a profit. Designs and techniques are constantly changing, so it is impossible for automatic systems to keep up with the ever-changing variability. The standard screen reader response is to somehow script specific complex webpages (Jaws) or flag and otherwise mark-up aspects of webpages. Aria is a system that web developers can use which has been accepted by the screen readers. However, most web developers will probably never use it any more than they have ever used accessibility techniques in the past. We are a tiny minority, so most never think our accessibility needs. Though I would love to see it be otherwise, I am a realist. We are way beneath the average web-developer's notice, so it will most likely always be an uphill battle. Consider it this way. How many of you who make podcasts create written transcriptions of your podcast for the deaf? I have seen very few. You probably never thought of the fact that you are discriminating against the deaf exactly the same way with your podcast that sighted people are discriminating against you with inaccessible web pages. Oh, and if your podcast were for certain governmental information websites, you would be required to make the podcast information accessible to everyone, including those who are deaf. In other words, you would need to sit down and transcribe everything that is said in the podcast, and place it alongside the podcast so the deaf can have equal access. For me, at least, it takes several hours to transcribe a half hour interview. I am a slow typist. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 13:04, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > The results of these studies on how the blind work with web sites surprise me a bit, but I wonder how much of this goes back to how JAWS presents web content to the JAWS user. Even so, I distinctly recall using the JAWS cursor with web pages to explore how they're laid out and how they appear to sighted users. I did this even more frequently when JAWS allowed for alternate web page presentations, and I started using a screen reader like Orca which doesn't change the lay out of the page much at all. I don't recall how much NVDA manipulates the presentation of the web. It would be interesting to know the results of these studies with blind people who predominantly use Orca instead of JAWS. > > I do think it'll always take the blind a bit longer to digest information on a web page than it will for sighted users. Just as I can't take in a list of email messages at a glance, focusing in on the unread messages based on colors, or automatically jump to the interesting part of a spread sheet, I'm not going to be able to follow the visual queues on a web page directing the sighted user to the pertinent portion of the web page. Ironically, I think screen reader technology is going to have to help fill in the gap here, which may focus more on the type of content on a web page and less on the visual layout. > > > On 04/25/2013 07:26 PM, David Chittenden wrote: >> Like I said, I ca
Re: An oddity with contacts
I have that same problem. Have I missed a fix for it! Carol P Sent from my iPhone using BrailleTouch On 26 Apr 2013, at 03:47 AM, Ron Pelletier wrote: > Hi, > > The only problem I've had in contacts and its not a big problem is that when > I use the table index to go to a letter, it puts me on the last contact of > the previous letter. I don't know, maybe its meant to be that way. Better > that than missing the first contact in that letter. > > Ron & Danvers > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Neal Ewers > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 6:58 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts > > I have actually had my wife who has vision look at my contacts because I at > first thought there was something wrong with them because the letter > headings did not match up with the names of the contacts. They looked fine > to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover problem. Nice to have more > clarification on this. > > Neal > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Cristóbal > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts > > This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages. It's > annoying as all get out. > > You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages with lots > of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to swipe through. > Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine. > > I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a response > particular to my message and not just the standard "We appreciate your > message and will forward it to the proper department." Or some such. > > They said that they were aware of the problem and were investigating it, but > could not say more beyond that. So basically we have to wait for a fix if at > all in the next iOS release. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Raul A. Gallegos > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM > To: ViPhone List > Subject: An oddity with contacts > > Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is > experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts > list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way > the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first > name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is > if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next > contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to > the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that > start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness > there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, > H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out > of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for > the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me > that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for > the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the > G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G > are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure > what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left > flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case. > > --- > Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or > auto complete errors. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone&quo
Re: An oddity with contacts
windows screen readers have >> always presented information in a serial manner, blind people perceive web >> pages as being long columns of text on the left side of the web page. >> >> One study set a tactile button in the middle of the computer screen a little >> below the centre. Using a tactile mouse, blind people, and sighted people >> under blindfold, tried to locate and click on the button. The sighted people >> took a fair amount of time to locate the tactile button. Over half the blind >> people were unable to locate the tactile button. Whilst the sighted people >> explored the web page from side to side, top to bottom, the blind people >> stayed on the left edge of the display and kept searching up and down in the >> left side only. This is very significant as it shows how blind people >> mentally visualise and comprehend webpages. >> >> Another study used eye-tracking equipment to assess exactly how sighted >> people determine relevance of webpages, and compared this with blind people. >> The vast majority of websites display link bars / tool bars down the left >> side, across the top, and down the right side of the page. the main text of >> the page is in the middle, surrounded by these bars. The sighted person >> first looks at the two or three links in the upper left corner of the page. >> They then look at the main text of the page. Only after that do they go back >> and look at the other link bars. Because the screen reader goes from left to >> right, top to bottom, in a serial, linear manner, and because all the link >> bars start above the main text area, the blind person must go through all >> the bars first. This creates the mental impression that everything is on the >> left side above the text. This visualisation is subconscious, and it is what >> we do automatically. >> >> Since I've learned all of this from my research, I have been using my iPhone >> to retrain my mental visualisation of webpages to make it similar to what >> sighted people perceive. I no longer start at the beginning of the webpage. >> I touch the display and find where the actual text starts. I also slowly >> explore the page to find multiple columns of text. When I am ready to start >> reading, I use a two-finger flick down to read from my current location. >> This is, in fact one of the biggest reasons I want an iPad. I want to better >> train myself on fully understanding the visual lay-out of webpages so I can >> better and more quickly find information the way sighted people do >> (considering that websites are designed for the sighted, and relatively few >> will ever be designed for the blind given that we are one of the smallest >> minorities of people around). Besides, it will greatly improve my research >> skills. >> >> Oh, I almost forgot, sighted people were found to assess a webpage for >> relevance usually within 5 seconds. It took blind people 10 seconds to three >> minutes just to find the information on familiar webpages. >> >> Finally, title and author information for these studies is available upon >> request. Unfortunately, I cannot provide the actual text as it is >> copyrighted. >> >> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA >> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com >> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> On 26/04/2013, at 11:34, "Raul A. Gallegos" wrote: >> >>> It is very odd for sure. I have never seen this problem on my 4S. I have >>> over 300 contacts in my phone of the same model and have never experienced >>> this problem. So Innoway I am glad to know that others are having this >>> issue even though it is annoying. >>> >>> --- >>> Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or >>> auto complete errors. >>> >>> On Apr 25, 2013, at 5:57 PM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: >>> >>>> I have actually had my wife who has vision look at my contacts because I at >>>> first thought there was something wrong with them because the letter >>>> headings did not match up with the names of the contacts. They looked fine >>>> to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover problem. Nice to have more >>>> clarification on this. >>>> >>>> Neal >>>> >>>> -Original Message- >>>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >>>> Of Cristóbal >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM >>>> To: viphone@googl
RE: An oddity with contacts
David, You're likely right. I was going rather fast. It's not a big bother, just a curiosity now that I know the contacts are as they should be. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 7:36 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts Did you flick faster the second time round? I find that when I am flicking extremely fast, I start making a similar mistake. What I do is sometimes touch rather than flick, thereby completely moving the focus of VO. The next flick, of course, starts VO where I touched the display. Oh, I also become sloppy with my angle. My flick becomes more diagonal. Once 45 degrees is passed, the flick changes from horizontal to vertical, and the rotor setting kicks in. If set to headings, it gets really interesting. If set to things like language, it can get annoying. :-) David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 11:37, "Neal Ewers" wrote: > David, Thanks and a couple observations. > > This is why I try to explain to new users that they need almost to > start their swiping motion before they touch the screen and end after > their finger is off the screen. It's like an air plane that hits the > runway and decides to take off again. It continues on both ends of the time on the runway. > However, I just noticed something strange. > > I just rebooted my phone. Held down the power button for the time > required and then tapped to turn off. When I went into my contacts, I > tried to really do a good job of swiping just like I said before, and they worked perfectly. > However, when I swiped backwards to the beginning and went through > them with a right swipe again, the letters were no longer in sync with the names. > > I'm guessing that one of your helpful bits of knowledge explains this, > but I don't think I swiped any differently the second time than I did > the first time. It is nice to know, however, that my contacts are OK. > It's just me and the iPhone that may not be in total sync. . > > Neal > > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On > Behalf Of David Chittenden > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 6:11 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts > > Based on your description, there are a couple things going on. > > First, I need to make an assumption. On a few of the letters in > contacts, there are either no, or very few contacts under the > particular letter. The number would be less than 6 to 10 depending on > whether the iPhone is a 5 or an earlier model. > > To understand what is going on, you need to be aware of how and when > the iPhone activates its interpretation algorithm for VO commands. All > tap, flick, and other movement-based commands are interpreted and > activated when the finger(s) are removed from the display. However, > location tracking of one finger is activated when one finger touches > the display and remains still for about half a second. This is very > important, especially when a person is learning to use the iPhone. > What inevitably happens is, the person wants to do a flick. The person > touches the display. The person is thinking so hard about doing the > technique properly that they hesitate for about half a second to a > second (this amount of hesitation is well-known in martial arts > training). The hesitation moves VO focus to the part of the display > where the person happens to be barely touching the display. Before VO > announces the item that is under the person's finger, the person > performs the flick and removes the finger from the display. The new > command interrupts the announcement of the previous command, VO > performs the required action, and the new location is announced. > Because VO's focus was shifted to a different position / item on the > screen, the alphabetical listings announcements are apparently out of > order. Yet, when the screen is checked, everything is where it is > supposed to be. If you pay careful attention, you will actually notice > the same thing occurring even when letters do not change. It is less > noticeable in this case because the first letter is the same, and we find it much more difficult to remember all the names in a single letter. > > As for the headings, the display shows all letters, and the display is > continuous. If a letter only has one entry, and the next letter also > only has one entry, you can see several heading letters on the display > at one time. If the focused letter is at the top of the display and > the hesitation moves focus t
RE: An oddity with contacts
Hi, The only problem I've had in contacts and its not a big problem is that when I use the table index to go to a letter, it puts me on the last contact of the previous letter. I don't know, maybe its meant to be that way. Better that than missing the first contact in that letter. Ron & Danvers -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Neal Ewers Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 6:58 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts I have actually had my wife who has vision look at my contacts because I at first thought there was something wrong with them because the letter headings did not match up with the names of the contacts. They looked fine to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover problem. Nice to have more clarification on this. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cristóbal Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages. It's annoying as all get out. You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages with lots of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to swipe through. Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine. I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a response particular to my message and not just the standard "We appreciate your message and will forward it to the proper department." Or some such. They said that they were aware of the problem and were investigating it, but could not say more beyond that. So basically we have to wait for a fix if at all in the next iOS release. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM To: ViPhone List Subject: An oddity with contacts Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case. --- Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto complete errors. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You recei
Re: An oddity with contacts
Yes, and for all the pertinent data, you would most likely wish to read the entire articles. I keep only that which is pertinent to my research in my active summary notes. Everything else requires returning to the article. Note; as I have found a very significant discrepancy between how sighted people under blindfold and how blind people explore both physical and virtual environments using haptics, these are factors which I screen for. Additionally, there are differences between how congenitally and adventitiously blind people explore their environments. I strongly suspect we can find significant variations based on when the person actually goes blind, but I have not found studies across the spectrums I am monitoring about this. It has to do with mental spatial awareness, and most of the studies I have read in the particular field take the stance that blind people do not have mental visual spatial awareness. Therefore, the studies that bring in blind people tend to be focused on proving the basic concept. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 13:10, "Lauren Simmons" wrote: > Anyone can provide exact text from any research paper regardless of copyright > as long as you properly site the research(s). The problems start when you > begin quoting "lots" of the text--Information from DSM IV-TR . > > Also, research findings are not laws of nature. There is variation in > research subjects as much of human behavior falls on a continuum often > expressed statistically using the standard normal curve. In other words, what > David described below was probably observed, but this doesn't mean all > participants processed the webpage content in the way described. One would > have to read the entire research David alluded to below, but knowing a thing > or two about stats and human psychology, I'm pretty sure I can support my > point. Off the top of my head there was no mention about degree of vision > loss, amount of experience with a computer, age of participants, and > familiarity with task requested of blind people, etc, etc. Often it is > difficult to find a large group of blind research participants, so > blind-folded sighted participants are used to represent blind people and > researchers collect their data using this "proxy" population of blind > computer users. I need not go on any further as I'm sure you get the point; I > just wanted to explain how research findings are collected for those who may > think that just because information comes from research it is law. Let's not > forget that with replication of the study using a different population and > slightly different procedures the hypothesis of the research can come > tumbling down like a house of cards. > > LS > > ----- Original Message - From: "David Chittenden" > To: > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:26 PM > Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts > > > Like I said, I can reliably reproduce the problem by briefly hesitating > before performing the gesture. Otherwise, I never experience the problem, > even on webpages. > > Specific to webpages, when the webpage is large and in multiple columns, > headings very easily jump when what I describe happens. This is because the > multi-columns are not linear like we blind people perceive them. Your first > heading may be near the top on the left side of the display. Your next > heading may be near the bottom of the left side. Your third heading may be > one-third the way down in the middle of the display. Your next heading may be > half way down the middle of the display. Your next heading may be at the > bottom of the middle of the display. Your final four headings may be spaced > along the column on the right-hand side of the display. So, using a vertical > flick set to headings, with just a little hesitation before the flick, can > cause your headings to jump seemingly unpredictably, whilst attempting to > navigate the display. Consider that you hesitate between headings whilst > deciding whether to move to the next heading, and your finger is closer to > the display than you think. > > From various studies, we know that, based on how windows screen readers have > always presented information in a serial manner, blind people perceive web > pages as being long columns of text on the left side of the web page. > > One study set a tactile button in the middle of the computer screen a little > below the centre. Using a tactile mouse, blind people, and sighted people > under blindfold, tried to locate and click on the button. The sighted people > took a fair amount of time to locate the tactile button. Over half the blind >
Re: An oddity with contacts
Anyone can provide exact text from any research paper regardless of copyright as long as you properly site the research(s). The problems start when you begin quoting "lots" of the text--Information from DSM IV-TR . Also, research findings are not laws of nature. There is variation in research subjects as much of human behavior falls on a continuum often expressed statistically using the standard normal curve. In other words, what David described below was probably observed, but this doesn't mean all participants processed the webpage content in the way described. One would have to read the entire research David alluded to below, but knowing a thing or two about stats and human psychology, I'm pretty sure I can support my point. Off the top of my head there was no mention about degree of vision loss, amount of experience with a computer, age of participants, and familiarity with task requested of blind people, etc, etc. Often it is difficult to find a large group of blind research participants, so blind-folded sighted participants are used to represent blind people and researchers collect their data using this "proxy" population of blind computer users. I need not go on any further as I'm sure you get the point; I just wanted to explain how research findings are collected for those who may think that just because information comes from research it is law. Let's not forget that with replication of the study using a different population and slightly different procedures the hypothesis of the research can come tumbling down like a house of cards. LS - Original Message - From: "David Chittenden" To: Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:26 PM Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts Like I said, I can reliably reproduce the problem by briefly hesitating before performing the gesture. Otherwise, I never experience the problem, even on webpages. Specific to webpages, when the webpage is large and in multiple columns, headings very easily jump when what I describe happens. This is because the multi-columns are not linear like we blind people perceive them. Your first heading may be near the top on the left side of the display. Your next heading may be near the bottom of the left side. Your third heading may be one-third the way down in the middle of the display. Your next heading may be half way down the middle of the display. Your next heading may be at the bottom of the middle of the display. Your final four headings may be spaced along the column on the right-hand side of the display. So, using a vertical flick set to headings, with just a little hesitation before the flick, can cause your headings to jump seemingly unpredictably, whilst attempting to navigate the display. Consider that you hesitate between headings whilst deciding whether to move to the next heading, and your finger is closer to the display than you think. From various studies, we know that, based on how windows screen readers have always presented information in a serial manner, blind people perceive web pages as being long columns of text on the left side of the web page. One study set a tactile button in the middle of the computer screen a little below the centre. Using a tactile mouse, blind people, and sighted people under blindfold, tried to locate and click on the button. The sighted people took a fair amount of time to locate the tactile button. Over half the blind people were unable to locate the tactile button. Whilst the sighted people explored the web page from side to side, top to bottom, the blind people stayed on the left edge of the display and kept searching up and down in the left side only. This is very significant as it shows how blind people mentally visualise and comprehend webpages. Another study used eye-tracking equipment to assess exactly how sighted people determine relevance of webpages, and compared this with blind people. The vast majority of websites display link bars / tool bars down the left side, across the top, and down the right side of the page. the main text of the page is in the middle, surrounded by these bars. The sighted person first looks at the two or three links in the upper left corner of the page. They then look at the main text of the page. Only after that do they go back and look at the other link bars. Because the screen reader goes from left to right, top to bottom, in a serial, linear manner, and because all the link bars start above the main text area, the blind person must go through all the bars first. This creates the mental impression that everything is on the left side above the text. This visualisation is subconscious, and it is what we do automatically. Since I've learned all of this from my research, I have been using my iPhone to retrain my mental visualisation of webpages to make it similar to what sighted people perceive. I no longer start at the
Re: An oddity with contacts
visual lay-out of webpages so I can better and more quickly find information the way sighted people do (considering that websites are designed for the sighted, and relatively few will ever be designed for the blind given that we are one of the smallest minorities of people around). Besides, it will greatly improve my research skills. Oh, I almost forgot, sighted people were found to assess a webpage for relevance usually within 5 seconds. It took blind people 10 seconds to three minutes just to find the information on familiar webpages. Finally, title and author information for these studies is available upon request. Unfortunately, I cannot provide the actual text as it is copyrighted. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 11:34, "Raul A. Gallegos" wrote: It is very odd for sure. I have never seen this problem on my 4S. I have over 300 contacts in my phone of the same model and have never experienced this problem. So Innoway I am glad to know that others are having this issue even though it is annoying. --- Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto complete errors. On Apr 25, 2013, at 5:57 PM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: I have actually had my wife who has vision look at my contacts because I at first thought there was something wrong with them because the letter headings did not match up with the names of the contacts. They looked fine to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover problem. Nice to have more clarification on this. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cristóbal Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages. It's annoying as all get out. You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages with lots of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to swipe through. Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine. I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a response particular to my message and not just the standard "We appreciate your message and will forward it to the proper department." Or some such. They said that they were aware of the problem and were investigating it, but could not say more beyond that. So basically we have to wait for a fix if at all in the next iOS release. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM To: ViPhone List Subject: An oddity with contacts Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case. --- Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto complete errors. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/group
Re: An oddity with contacts
Did you flick faster the second time round? I find that when I am flicking extremely fast, I start making a similar mistake. What I do is sometimes touch rather than flick, thereby completely moving the focus of VO. The next flick, of course, starts VO where I touched the display. Oh, I also become sloppy with my angle. My flick becomes more diagonal. Once 45 degrees is passed, the flick changes from horizontal to vertical, and the rotor setting kicks in. If set to headings, it gets really interesting. If set to things like language, it can get annoying. :-) David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 11:37, "Neal Ewers" wrote: > David, Thanks and a couple observations. > > This is why I try to explain to new users that they need almost to start > their swiping motion before they touch the screen and end after their finger > is off the screen. It's like an air plane that hits the runway and decides > to take off again. It continues on both ends of the time on the runway. > However, I just noticed something strange. > > I just rebooted my phone. Held down the power button for the time required > and then tapped to turn off. When I went into my contacts, I tried to really > do a good job of swiping just like I said before, and they worked perfectly. > However, when I swiped backwards to the beginning and went through them with > a right swipe again, the letters were no longer in sync with the names. > > I'm guessing that one of your helpful bits of knowledge explains this, but I > don't think I swiped any differently the second time than I did the first > time. It is nice to know, however, that my contacts are OK. It's just me and > the iPhone that may not be in total sync. . > > Neal > > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of David Chittenden > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 6:11 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts > > Based on your description, there are a couple things going on. > > First, I need to make an assumption. On a few of the letters in contacts, > there are either no, or very few contacts under the particular letter. The > number would be less than 6 to 10 depending on whether the iPhone is a 5 or > an earlier model. > > To understand what is going on, you need to be aware of how and when the > iPhone activates its interpretation algorithm for VO commands. All tap, > flick, and other movement-based commands are interpreted and activated when > the finger(s) are removed from the display. However, location tracking of > one finger is activated when one finger touches the display and remains > still for about half a second. This is very important, especially when a > person is learning to use the iPhone. What inevitably happens is, the person > wants to do a flick. The person touches the display. The person is thinking > so hard about doing the technique properly that they hesitate for about half > a second to a second (this amount of hesitation is well-known in martial > arts training). The hesitation moves VO focus to the part of the display > where the person happens to be barely touching the display. Before VO > announces the item that is under the person's finger, the person performs > the flick and removes the finger from the display. The new command > interrupts the announcement of the previous command, VO performs the > required action, and the new location is announced. Because VO's focus was > shifted to a different position / item on the screen, the alphabetical > listings announcements are apparently out of order. Yet, when the screen is > checked, everything is where it is supposed to be. If you pay careful > attention, you will actually notice the same thing occurring even when > letters do not change. It is less noticeable in this case because the first > letter is the same, and we find it much more difficult to remember all the > names in a single letter. > > As for the headings, the display shows all letters, and the display is > continuous. If a letter only has one entry, and the next letter also only > has one entry, you can see several heading letters on the display at one > time. If the focused letter is at the top of the display and the hesitation > moves focus to the bottom of the display before the vertical flick is sent, > several letters can be easily skipped. The same is true for the reverse. > > Finally, when horizontally flicking, the VO highlight tends to remain near > the middle of the display. When an item in a list is closed, however, that > item and VO tend to be placed at the top of the display. > > A note about touching. The display is not
Re: An oddity with contacts
I don't think this explains what I'm experiencing. When I'm in my Google Contacts that I sync with Exchange, flicking up or down after setting my roter to headings is very unpredictable. I don't experience this unpredictability with other lists of contacts, including my Google Contacts I've synced with CardDav or other apps like Safari. I don't think my flicking technique is any different when I'm in my Exchange synced Google Contacts than it is elsewhere on the phone. On 04/25/2013 06:11 PM, David Chittenden wrote: Based on your description, there are a couple things going on. First, I need to make an assumption. On a few of the letters in contacts, there are either no, or very few contacts under the particular letter. The number would be less than 6 to 10 depending on whether the iPhone is a 5 or an earlier model. To understand what is going on, you need to be aware of how and when the iPhone activates its interpretation algorithm for VO commands. All tap, flick, and other movement-based commands are interpreted and activated when the finger(s) are removed from the display. However, location tracking of one finger is activated when one finger touches the display and remains still for about half a second. This is very important, especially when a person is learning to use the iPhone. What inevitably happens is, the person wants to do a flick. The person touches the display. The person is thinking so hard about doing the technique properly that they hesitate for about half a second to a second (this amount of hesitation is well-known in martial arts training). The hesitation moves VO focus to the part of the display where the person happens to be barely touching the display. Before VO announces the item that is under the person's finger, the person performs the flick and removes the finger from the display. The new command interrupts the announcement of the previous command, VO performs the required action, and the new location is announced. Because VO's focus was shifted to a different position / item on the screen, the alphabetical listings announcements are apparently out of order. Yet, when the screen is checked, everything is where it is supposed to be. If you pay careful attention, you will actually notice the same thing occurring even when letters do not change. It is less noticeable in this case because the first letter is the same, and we find it much more difficult to remember all the names in a single letter. As for the headings, the display shows all letters, and the display is continuous. If a letter only has one entry, and the next letter also only has one entry, you can see several heading letters on the display at one time. If the focused letter is at the top of the display and the hesitation moves focus to the bottom of the display before the vertical flick is sent, several letters can be easily skipped. The same is true for the reverse. Finally, when horizontally flicking, the VO highlight tends to remain near the middle of the display. When an item in a list is closed, however, that item and VO tend to be placed at the top of the display. A note about touching. The display is not pressure sensitive. Barely touching the display is all that is needed. The touch can be so light that you are not sure you have touched the screen yet. The location timer activates at this point because the display does not know whether you are barely touching it or quite firmly touching it. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 10:31, "Raul A. Gallegos" wrote: Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have b
Re: An oddity with contacts
my contacts because I at >> first thought there was something wrong with them because the letter >> headings did not match up with the names of the contacts. They looked fine >> to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover problem. Nice to have more >> clarification on this. >> >> Neal >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Cristóbal >> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts >> >> This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages. It's >> annoying as all get out. >> >> You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages with lots >> of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to swipe through. >> Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine. >> >> I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a response >> particular to my message and not just the standard "We appreciate your >> message and will forward it to the proper department." Or some such. >> >> They said that they were aware of the problem and were investigating it, but >> could not say more beyond that. So basically we have to wait for a fix if at >> all in the next iOS release. >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of Raul A. Gallegos >> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM >> To: ViPhone List >> Subject: An oddity with contacts >> >> Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is >> experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts >> list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way >> the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first >> name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is >> if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next >> contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to >> the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that >> start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness >> there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, >> H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out >> of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for >> the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me >> that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for >> the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the >> G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G >> are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure >> what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left >> flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case. >> >> --- >> Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or >> auto complete errors. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google >> Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google >> Group. >> To search the VIPhone public archive, visit >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to th
RE: An oddity with contacts
David, Thanks and a couple observations. This is why I try to explain to new users that they need almost to start their swiping motion before they touch the screen and end after their finger is off the screen. It's like an air plane that hits the runway and decides to take off again. It continues on both ends of the time on the runway. However, I just noticed something strange. I just rebooted my phone. Held down the power button for the time required and then tapped to turn off. When I went into my contacts, I tried to really do a good job of swiping just like I said before, and they worked perfectly. However, when I swiped backwards to the beginning and went through them with a right swipe again, the letters were no longer in sync with the names. I'm guessing that one of your helpful bits of knowledge explains this, but I don't think I swiped any differently the second time than I did the first time. It is nice to know, however, that my contacts are OK. It's just me and the iPhone that may not be in total sync. . Neal From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chittenden Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 6:11 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: An oddity with contacts Based on your description, there are a couple things going on. First, I need to make an assumption. On a few of the letters in contacts, there are either no, or very few contacts under the particular letter. The number would be less than 6 to 10 depending on whether the iPhone is a 5 or an earlier model. To understand what is going on, you need to be aware of how and when the iPhone activates its interpretation algorithm for VO commands. All tap, flick, and other movement-based commands are interpreted and activated when the finger(s) are removed from the display. However, location tracking of one finger is activated when one finger touches the display and remains still for about half a second. This is very important, especially when a person is learning to use the iPhone. What inevitably happens is, the person wants to do a flick. The person touches the display. The person is thinking so hard about doing the technique properly that they hesitate for about half a second to a second (this amount of hesitation is well-known in martial arts training). The hesitation moves VO focus to the part of the display where the person happens to be barely touching the display. Before VO announces the item that is under the person's finger, the person performs the flick and removes the finger from the display. The new command interrupts the announcement of the previous command, VO performs the required action, and the new location is announced. Because VO's focus was shifted to a different position / item on the screen, the alphabetical listings announcements are apparently out of order. Yet, when the screen is checked, everything is where it is supposed to be. If you pay careful attention, you will actually notice the same thing occurring even when letters do not change. It is less noticeable in this case because the first letter is the same, and we find it much more difficult to remember all the names in a single letter. As for the headings, the display shows all letters, and the display is continuous. If a letter only has one entry, and the next letter also only has one entry, you can see several heading letters on the display at one time. If the focused letter is at the top of the display and the hesitation moves focus to the bottom of the display before the vertical flick is sent, several letters can be easily skipped. The same is true for the reverse. Finally, when horizontally flicking, the VO highlight tends to remain near the middle of the display. When an item in a list is closed, however, that item and VO tend to be placed at the top of the display. A note about touching. The display is not pressure sensitive. Barely touching the display is all that is needed. The touch can be so light that you are not sure you have touched the screen yet. The location timer activates at this point because the display does not know whether you are barely touching it or quite firmly touching it. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 10:31, "Raul A. Gallegos" wrote: > Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. I se
Re: An oddity with contacts
It is very odd for sure. I have never seen this problem on my 4S. I have over 300 contacts in my phone of the same model and have never experienced this problem. So Innoway I am glad to know that others are having this issue even though it is annoying. --- Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto complete errors. On Apr 25, 2013, at 5:57 PM, "Neal Ewers" wrote: > I have actually had my wife who has vision look at my contacts because I at > first thought there was something wrong with them because the letter > headings did not match up with the names of the contacts. They looked fine > to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover problem. Nice to have more > clarification on this. > > Neal > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Cristóbal > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts > > This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages. It's > annoying as all get out. > > You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages with lots > of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to swipe through. > Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine. > > I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a response > particular to my message and not just the standard "We appreciate your > message and will forward it to the proper department." Or some such. > > They said that they were aware of the problem and were investigating it, but > could not say more beyond that. So basically we have to wait for a fix if at > all in the next iOS release. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Raul A. Gallegos > Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM > To: ViPhone List > Subject: An oddity with contacts > > Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is > experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts > list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way > the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first > name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is > if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next > contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to > the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that > start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness > there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, > H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out > of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for > the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me > that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for > the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the > G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G > are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure > what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left > flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case. > > --- > Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or > auto complete errors. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://gro
Re: An oddity with contacts
Based on your description, there are a couple things going on. First, I need to make an assumption. On a few of the letters in contacts, there are either no, or very few contacts under the particular letter. The number would be less than 6 to 10 depending on whether the iPhone is a 5 or an earlier model. To understand what is going on, you need to be aware of how and when the iPhone activates its interpretation algorithm for VO commands. All tap, flick, and other movement-based commands are interpreted and activated when the finger(s) are removed from the display. However, location tracking of one finger is activated when one finger touches the display and remains still for about half a second. This is very important, especially when a person is learning to use the iPhone. What inevitably happens is, the person wants to do a flick. The person touches the display. The person is thinking so hard about doing the technique properly that they hesitate for about half a second to a second (this amount of hesitation is well-known in martial arts training). The hesitation moves VO focus to the part of the display where the person happens to be barely touching the display. Before VO announces the item that is under the person's finger, the person performs the flick and removes the finger from the display. The new command interrupts the announcement of the previous command, VO performs the required action, and the new location is announced. Because VO's focus was shifted to a different position / item on the screen, the alphabetical listings announcements are apparently out of order. Yet, when the screen is checked, everything is where it is supposed to be. If you pay careful attention, you will actually notice the same thing occurring even when letters do not change. It is less noticeable in this case because the first letter is the same, and we find it much more difficult to remember all the names in a single letter. As for the headings, the display shows all letters, and the display is continuous. If a letter only has one entry, and the next letter also only has one entry, you can see several heading letters on the display at one time. If the focused letter is at the top of the display and the hesitation moves focus to the bottom of the display before the vertical flick is sent, several letters can be easily skipped. The same is true for the reverse. Finally, when horizontally flicking, the VO highlight tends to remain near the middle of the display. When an item in a list is closed, however, that item and VO tend to be placed at the top of the display. A note about touching. The display is not pressure sensitive. Barely touching the display is all that is needed. The touch can be so light that you are not sure you have touched the screen yet. The location timer activates at this point because the display does not know whether you are barely touching it or quite firmly touching it. David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA Email: dchitten...@gmail.com Mobile: +64 21 2288 288 Sent from my iPhone On 26/04/2013, at 10:31, "Raul A. Gallegos" wrote: > Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is > experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts > list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the > client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. > And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you > are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts > which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right > and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. > I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness there as well. As I > flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if > things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the > screen to see what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is > supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is > actually speaking different letters in the headings for the categories but > those letters are not correct. So in my example above the G is missing. Yet > if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G are actually > spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure what to do to > fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left flicking instead > of right flicking, but that's not the case. > > --- > Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto > complete errors. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, se
RE: An oddity with contacts
I have actually had my wife who has vision look at my contacts because I at first thought there was something wrong with them because the letter headings did not match up with the names of the contacts. They looked fine to her, so I assumed it was a voiceover problem. Nice to have more clarification on this. Neal -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Cristóbal Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 5:42 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: An oddity with contacts This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages. It's annoying as all get out. You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages with lots of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to swipe through. Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine. I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a response particular to my message and not just the standard "We appreciate your message and will forward it to the proper department." Or some such. They said that they were aware of the problem and were investigating it, but could not say more beyond that. So basically we have to wait for a fix if at all in the next iOS release. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM To: ViPhone List Subject: An oddity with contacts Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case. --- Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto complete errors. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubsc
RE: An oddity with contacts
This has to do with the headings bug mentioned in earlier messages. It's annoying as all get out. You'll find it in other apps such as Safari when visiting webpages with lots of headings. VO gets placed all over the place when trying to swipe through. Oddly enough though, the NFB Newsline app seems to work fine. I wrote Apple about this the other day and I actually got a response particular to my message and not just the standard "We appreciate your message and will forward it to the proper department." Or some such. They said that they were aware of the problem and were investigating it, but could not say more beyond that. So basically we have to wait for a fix if at all in the next iOS release. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2013 3:31 PM To: ViPhone List Subject: An oddity with contacts Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case. --- Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto complete errors. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: An oddity with contacts
Hi, Did you try restarting the phone? That sometimes solves weirdness of that sort. Best, Anna On Apr 25, 2013, at 5:31 PM, "Raul A. Gallegos" wrote: > Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is > experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts > list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the > client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. > And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you > are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts > which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right > and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. > I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness there as well. As I > flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if > things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the > screen to see what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is > supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is > actually speaking different letters in the headings for the categories but > those letters are not correct. So in my example above the G is missing. Yet > if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G are actually > spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure what to do to > fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left flicking instead > of right flicking, but that's not the case. > > --- > Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto > complete errors. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google > Group. > To search the VIPhone public archive, visit > http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. > To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "VIPhone" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
An oddity with contacts
Hello all. The following is a weird problem that one of my clients is experiencing and I am not sure how to help them. This is all in the contacts list. From what I can tell the contacts are in alphabetical order the way the client wants them to be. They are set up to sort by last name, first name. And display by first name, last name. This is all good. The problem is if you are flicking to the right and you come across the letter C the next contacts which are displayed all start with D. Then as you keep flicking to the right and you eventually get to the letter E, the contacts after that start with D. I set the rotor to headings and am experiencing weirdness there as well. As I flaked down I would hear things like a, B, H, E, F, P, H. So it is as if things are being misread. However if I hear a letter out of turn, I touch the screen to see what is there and the correct contact for the letter it is supposed to be is actually displayed. This is telling me that voiceover is actually speaking different letters in the headings for the categories but those letters are not correct. So in my example above the G is missing. Yet if I stop on that missplaced the letter the contacts for G are actually spoken. I have never seen this happen before and I am not sure what to do to fix it. At first I thought the client might have been left flicking instead of right flicking, but that's not the case. --- Sent from Raul's iPhone - (832) 554-7285. Please excuse any dictation or auto complete errors. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
