Comparing VoiceOver and NVDA, Upcoming Panel Discussion

2021-03-05 Thread kliph miller Sr 
> Good evening, most of you probably remember the recent article attempting to 
> compare Voiceover on Mac OS with NVDA on Windows. As promised, Kliph and I, 
> along with our good friend John of Mac For the Blind, will host a reaction 
> panel, in which we will discuss this article and our opinions of it. This 
> discussion will be held in Zoom tonight at 8PM Eastern, 7PM Central, and you 
> are all invited to join us. Come ask your questions and share your thoughts. 
> The meeting link is the same one used by Trainer Kliph for some of his 
> various training sessions, as well as for our monthly Bible study. It is:
> 
> https://us02web.zoom.us/j/3116952583?pwd=SlFQZmVtbFZlNXppcmU4TmZGeDIwZz09
> 
> Meeting ID: 311 695 2583
> Passcode: 331042
> Hope to see you there. God bless you and take care.:)

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RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Marco Curralejo 
We have done comparisons between NVDA, Jaws, Dolphin and Windows Narrator in 
the past few episodes of Blind Tech Guys, so it may well be worthwhile checking 
those out.

www.blindtechguys.com <http://www.blindtechguys.com> 

 

If people are interested, we will look at doing a comparison between VoiceOver, 
Commentary and Talkback

 

Cheers,

 

Marco

 

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
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by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
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attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Simon A 
Fogarty
Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2021 3:11 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

 

Having used jaws, narrator,

NvdA

Voiceover and talkback,

 

Jaws is definatly my choice with windows,

And voiceover on the mac obviously, NvDA I haven’t used enough to make a highly 
informed decision  but with enterprise systems and in some cases through remote 
desktop connections,

Jaws works better for me.

 

As for the mobile side of things,

 

To me voiceover Is still out in front,

But talkback gets better with each release 

 

But then of course you get the likes of Samsung trying to create their own 
products which although do some things,

Voiceover just works on / with everything in most  cases.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2021 3:53 pm
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

 

True, and Microsoft and Narrator deserve credit for that, but just because 
you’re moving faster then someone in front of you doesn’t mean you’ve 
necessarily caught them yet. I don’t know if this is the case with Narrator and 
VoiceOver, since I don’t use VoiceOver on the Mac myself. I heard this a lot 
with Talk Back and VoiceOver, and although there was a time when Talk Back was 
making huge strides, and it did get to the point where it was a viable option, 
I’m not sure I’d ever say that it ended up heads and shoulders above VoiceOver. 
I’m not saying Talk Back doesn’t have it’s pros and there are definitely people 
who like Talk Back’s features, and choice is and options are good!

 

--

Christopher (AKA CJ)

Chaltain at Outlook

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 9:45 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

 

It's a bit general, but of course everybody is more or less biessed towards 
whatever system they use, in my case that would be Windows and Jaws and some 
are more biessed than others. If anything I would say that if you compare free 
screenreaders then nowadays one absolutely would have to include Narrator and 
if it is true that voiceover on the MAC has not seen major updates and 
development for some years this definitely cannot be said of Narrator. Under 
Windows 7 Narrator was very limited and of little use and definitely not a 
screenreader one could consider using on a daily bases. Under Windows 10 
Narrator has steadily been improved and it has received major updates and 
enhancements to the point where it is now quite impressive.

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
richr...@gmail.com <mailto:richr...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:32 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

 

This person knows very little about VoiceOver and shouldn’t be comparing it to 
NVDA!

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 8:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

 

I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they’re currently a 
Windows user. Maybe you’d like to point out where the article is incorrect. I’m 
not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but I would like to know more.

 

Also, if you’re going to repost an article it would be good if you could post 
the entire article, including who the author is or provide a link to the 
article, so people can read it in it’s entirety. BTW, I did see this forwarded 
to another list, so this isn’t my first ti

RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Simon A Fogarty 
Having used jaws, narrator,
NvdA
Voiceover and talkback,

Jaws is definatly my choice with windows,
And voiceover on the mac obviously, NvDA I haven’t used enough to make a highly 
informed decision  but with enterprise systems and in some cases through remote 
desktop connections,
Jaws works better for me.

As for the mobile side of things,

To me voiceover Is still out in front,
But talkback gets better with each release

But then of course you get the likes of Samsung trying to create their own 
products which although do some things,
Voiceover just works on / with everything in most  cases.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2021 3:53 pm
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

True, and Microsoft and Narrator deserve credit for that, but just because 
you’re moving faster then someone in front of you doesn’t mean you’ve 
necessarily caught them yet. I don’t know if this is the case with Narrator and 
VoiceOver, since I don’t use VoiceOver on the Mac myself. I heard this a lot 
with Talk Back and VoiceOver, and although there was a time when Talk Back was 
making huge strides, and it did get to the point where it was a viable option, 
I’m not sure I’d ever say that it ended up heads and shoulders above VoiceOver. 
I’m not saying Talk Back doesn’t have it’s pros and there are definitely people 
who like Talk Back’s features, and choice is and options are good!

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 9:45 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It's a bit general, but of course everybody is more or less biessed towards 
whatever system they use, in my case that would be Windows and Jaws and some 
are more biessed than others. If anything I would say that if you compare free 
screenreaders then nowadays one absolutely would have to include Narrator and 
if it is true that voiceover on the MAC has not seen major updates and 
development for some years this definitely cannot be said of Narrator. Under 
Windows 7 Narrator was very limited and of little use and definitely not a 
screenreader one could consider using on a daily bases. Under Windows 10 
Narrator has steadily been improved and it has received major updates and 
enhancements to the point where it is now quite impressive.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
richr...@gmail.com<mailto:richr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:32 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

This person knows very little about VoiceOver and shouldn’t be comparing it to 
NVDA!

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 8:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they’re currently a 
Windows user. Maybe you’d like to point out where the article is incorrect. I’m 
not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but I would like to know more.

Also, if you’re going to repost an article it would be good if you could post 
the entire article, including who the author is or provide a link to the 
article, so people can read it in it’s entirety. BTW, I did see this forwarded 
to another list, so this isn’t my first time reading this.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of kliph 
miller Sr
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:50 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
1. This is a windows user
2. They haven’t done there homework.
Note: I am not the author of this article!

Introduction
The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end

RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Christopher Chaltain 
True, and Microsoft and Narrator deserve credit for that, but just because 
you’re moving faster then someone in front of you doesn’t mean you’ve 
necessarily caught them yet. I don’t know if this is the case with Narrator and 
VoiceOver, since I don’t use VoiceOver on the Mac myself. I heard this a lot 
with Talk Back and VoiceOver, and although there was a time when Talk Back was 
making huge strides, and it did get to the point where it was a viable option, 
I’m not sure I’d ever say that it ended up heads and shoulders above VoiceOver. 
I’m not saying Talk Back doesn’t have it’s pros and there are definitely people 
who like Talk Back’s features, and choice is and options are good!

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 9:45 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It's a bit general, but of course everybody is more or less biessed towards 
whatever system they use, in my case that would be Windows and Jaws and some 
are more biessed than others. If anything I would say that if you compare free 
screenreaders then nowadays one absolutely would have to include Narrator and 
if it is true that voiceover on the MAC has not seen major updates and 
development for some years this definitely cannot be said of Narrator. Under 
Windows 7 Narrator was very limited and of little use and definitely not a 
screenreader one could consider using on a daily bases. Under Windows 10 
Narrator has steadily been improved and it has received major updates and 
enhancements to the point where it is now quite impressive.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
richr...@gmail.com<mailto:richr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:32 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

This person knows very little about VoiceOver and shouldn’t be comparing it to 
NVDA!

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 8:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they’re currently a 
Windows user. Maybe you’d like to point out where the article is incorrect. I’m 
not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but I would like to know more.

Also, if you’re going to repost an article it would be good if you could post 
the entire article, including who the author is or provide a link to the 
article, so people can read it in it’s entirety. BTW, I did see this forwarded 
to another list, so this isn’t my first time reading this.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of kliph 
miller Sr
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:50 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
1. This is a windows user
2. They haven’t done there homework.
Note: I am not the author of this article!

Introduction
The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end of this article, you will have a better understanding of each 
product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.
NVDA
Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind the 
project is an Australian company called NV Access 
(www.nvaccess.org<http://www.nvaccess.org/>). It has been around since 2006 and 
primarily competes with the JAWS for Windows screen reader produced by Freedom 
Scientific or Vispero as they are now known by. It offers many of the same 
features that JAWS offers and should be suitable for 99% of screen reader 
users. The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered free 
of charge to anyone in the world, meaning there is no longer a financial 
barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do anything else on a computer. NV 
Access does rely on dona

RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Simon A Fogarty 
Oh and the other thing I found badly noted,

Yes NVDA is free to download and use,
And yes you can make donations to the organisation,

But there is no way that an apple product is cheap and voiceover is part of the 
apple system / OS
It is really not free it is a built in feature which users can use if they need 
or wish to,

The way the guys describing Voiceover is more like narrator within windows.


From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of kliph 
miller Sr
Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2021 3:59 am
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It came from David goldfields top tidbits news letter

Are you good at editing audio or want to learn how? Want to explore all the 
options on how to make your recordings for podcasts or other files sound good? 
Then audio editing101 is the group for you, join here
audio-editing101+subscr...@groups.io
<mailto:audio-editing101+subscr...@groups.io>Let’s master editing audio 
together!


On Mar 1, 2021, at 7:21 AM, Richard Turner 
mailto:richardturne...@outlook.com>> wrote:

Kliph,
Who wrote the article and where is it from?

Richard

"You know," said Arthur, "it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon 
airlock with a man from Betelgeuse, and about to die of asphyxiation in deep 
space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was 
young."
"Why, what did she tell you?"
"I don't know, I didn't listen."
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy


On Mar 1, 2021, at 4:49 AM, kliph miller Sr 
mailto:kliph.miller...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
1. This is a windows user
2. They haven’t done there homework.
Note: I am not the author of this article!


Introduction
The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end of this article, you will have a better understanding of each 
product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.
NVDA
Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind the 
project is an Australian company called NV Access 
(www.nvaccess.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C323923a3294a4d725f6008d8dcb0801f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637501997920036953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=pcl7xfbaRbPEWr97QCZK8ZtFGFURS8AcGXcY4%2FD37U8%3D=0>).
 It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes with the JAWS for Windows 
screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or Vispero as they are now known 
by. It offers many of the same features that JAWS offers and should be suitable 
for 99% of screen reader users. The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely 
compelling. It is offered free of charge to anyone in the world, meaning there 
is no longer a financial barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do 
anything else on a computer. NV Access does rely on donations, either from 
individuals or grants from large companies, so if you can donate, it is very 
much worth it to help this amazing project continue long into the future. The 
obvious benefit is that a blind person can compete on a level playing field 
with sighted peers at no more cost than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also 
free, and NV Access releases 3-4 updates per year that fix bugs and add new 
features.
Since NVDA is open 
source<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeeksmodo.com%2Fopen-source-blindness%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C323923a3294a4d725f6008d8dcb0801f%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637501997920046911%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=bHhBbAHhfd6DfAIdb%2Ft%2F8R2ILEhbmn412%2FMo8lftU%2Fk%3D=0>,
 anyone is free to review the source code and propose changes. While anyone can 
propose a change and submit code, it’s still reviewed and approved by NV Access 
before it is included in anything anyone can download. This ensures the 
security of the software from unauthorised changes and means that the final 
product available from 
https://www.nvaccess.org/<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%

Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Devin Prater 
Of course he'd just get someone else to write it. I just have so much
other stuff to do. Like, I can't always just write a long form post
about comparing screen readers when people could just look at the
respective sites for them, read their documentation... But I'm glad they
found someone else to write for them, lol.

On 3/1/21 8:59 AM, Richard Turner wrote:
>
> I found the article by searching for the title.
>
> The author is: CHRISTOPHER WRIGHT
> <https://geeksmodo.com/author/christopher-wright/>, who apparently is
> wrong, grin.
>
> It is on the GeeksModo web site at: Comparing VoiceOver and NVDA |
> GeeksModo <https://geeksmodo.com/comparing-voiceover-and-nvda/>
>
>  
>
> I would suggest any Mac VoiceOver user who can point out his errors
> contact him through the web site’s comments.
>
> Here is one that is up already:
>
> Tyler Stephen says
>
> TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2021 AT 9:32 AM
>
> Is the Disk Utility crash bug not fixed in macOS 11.2?
>
>  
>
> Christopher Wright says
>
> TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2021 AT 4:45 PM
>
> I don’t know. I exclusively run Windows on my Mac and haven’t used Big
> Sur’s 11.2 update. If this indeed has been fixed, I can edit the
> article to reflect
>
> this.
>
>  
>
> My only statement about this article is what an absolute waste of
> bytes, and I wouldn’t use a Mac if you gave it to me, but I know lots
> of people who use Mac’s exclusively and hopefully will take this
> person to task on their stupidity.
>
> .
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Richard
>
>  
>
> Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical
> object<>to realize that you are in a hurry.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> My web site, www.turner42.com <http://www.turner42.com>
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com  *On Behalf
> Of *Christopher Chaltain
> *Sent:* Monday, March 1, 2021 6:08 AM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA
>
>  
>
> I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they’re
> currently a Windows user. Maybe you’d like to point out where the
> article is incorrect. I’m not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but
> I would like to know more.
>
>  
>
> Also, if you’re going to repost an article it would be good if you
> could post the entire article, including who the author is or provide
> a link to the article, so people can read it in it’s entirety. BTW, I
> did see this forwarded to another list, so this isn’t my first time
> reading this.
>
>  
>
> --
>
> Christopher (AKA CJ)
>
> Chaltain at Outlook
>
>  
>
> *From:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
> mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> *On
> Behalf Of *kliph miller Sr
> *Sent:* Monday, March 1, 2021 6:50 AM
> *To:* viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA
>
>  
>
>
> It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
>
> 1. This is a windows user
>
> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
>
> Note: I am not the author of this article!
>
>  
>
>
> Introduction
>
> The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are
> blind or visually impaired. One of the most important tools a
> blind user uses with modern computing devices is a screen
> reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been very expensive
> third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain
> depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet
> capable screen readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The
> two that we will be discussing are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS
> and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for Windows. Both are
> powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have
> their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more
> detail. Hopefully by the end of this article, you will have a
> better understanding of each product and its individual
> strengths/weaknesses.
>
>
>   NVDA
>
> Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open
> source screen reader for the Microsoft Windows operating
> system. The organization behind the project is an Australian
> company called NV Access (www.nvaccess.org
> 
> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C1a96b4cc2cc54c587b8008d8dcbb689d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637502044753999539%7CUnknown

RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Richard Turner 
I decided even though I'm not a Mac user, and will never be one, I added a 
comment and pointed the author to the AppleVis blog where improvements to 
VoiceOver on Mac OS is well documented.




Richard

Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to 
realize that you are in a hurry.


My web site, www.turner42.com<http://www.turner42.com>



From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of Sieghard 
Weitzel
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 7:45 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It's a bit general, but of course everybody is more or less biessed towards 
whatever system they use, in my case that would be Windows and Jaws and some 
are more biessed than others. If anything I would say that if you compare free 
screenreaders then nowadays one absolutely would have to include Narrator and 
if it is true that voiceover on the MAC has not seen major updates and 
development for some years this definitely cannot be said of Narrator. Under 
Windows 7 Narrator was very limited and of little use and definitely not a 
screenreader one could consider using on a daily bases. Under Windows 10 
Narrator has steadily been improved and it has received major updates and 
enhancements to the point where it is now quite impressive.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
richr...@gmail.com<mailto:richr...@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:32 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

This person knows very little about VoiceOver and shouldn't be comparing it to 
NVDA!

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 8:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they're currently a 
Windows user. Maybe you'd like to point out where the article is incorrect. I'm 
not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but I would like to know more.

Also, if you're going to repost an article it would be good if you could post 
the entire article, including who the author is or provide a link to the 
article, so people can read it in it's entirety. BTW, I did see this forwarded 
to another list, so this isn't my first time reading this.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of kliph 
miller Sr
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:50 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It's clear to me about this article 2 things.
1. This is a windows user
2. They haven't done there homework.
Note: I am not the author of this article!

Introduction
The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one's financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple's VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end of this article, you will have a better understanding of each 
product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.
NVDA
Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind the 
project is an Australian company called NV Access 
(www.nvaccess.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C42cb2a7f414a44ec241608d8dcc8f69e%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637502102986757373%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=Jc6tP0tozg27zdEM9lPfe%2BGRbwfVbGd6%2FVT1h0c2L%2FY%3D=0>).
 It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes with the JAWS for Windows 
screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or Vispero as they are now known 
by. It offers many of the same features that JAWS offers and should be suitable 
for 99% of screen reader users. The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely 
compelling. It is offered free of charge to anyone in the world, meaning there 
is no longer a financial barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do 
anything else on a computer. NV Access does rely on donations, either from 
individuals or grants

RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Sieghard Weitzel 
It's a bit general, but of course everybody is more or less biessed towards 
whatever system they use, in my case that would be Windows and Jaws and some 
are more biessed than others. If anything I would say that if you compare free 
screenreaders then nowadays one absolutely would have to include Narrator and 
if it is true that voiceover on the MAC has not seen major updates and 
development for some years this definitely cannot be said of Narrator. Under 
Windows 7 Narrator was very limited and of little use and definitely not a 
screenreader one could consider using on a daily bases. Under Windows 10 
Narrator has steadily been improved and it has received major updates and 
enhancements to the point where it is now quite impressive.

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
richr...@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:32 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

This person knows very little about VoiceOver and shouldn’t be comparing it to 
NVDA!

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 8:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they’re currently a 
Windows user. Maybe you’d like to point out where the article is incorrect. I’m 
not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but I would like to know more.

Also, if you’re going to repost an article it would be good if you could post 
the entire article, including who the author is or provide a link to the 
article, so people can read it in it’s entirety. BTW, I did see this forwarded 
to another list, so this isn’t my first time reading this.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of kliph 
miller Sr
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:50 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
1. This is a windows user
2. They haven’t done there homework.
Note: I am not the author of this article!

Introduction
The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end of this article, you will have a better understanding of each 
product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.
NVDA
Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind the 
project is an Australian company called NV Access 
(www.nvaccess.org<http://www.nvaccess.org/>). It has been around since 2006 and 
primarily competes with the JAWS for Windows screen reader produced by Freedom 
Scientific or Vispero as they are now known by. It offers many of the same 
features that JAWS offers and should be suitable for 99% of screen reader 
users. The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered free 
of charge to anyone in the world, meaning there is no longer a financial 
barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do anything else on a computer. NV 
Access does rely on donations, either from individuals or grants from large 
companies, so if you can donate, it is very much worth it to help this amazing 
project continue long into the future. The obvious benefit is that a blind 
person can compete on a level playing field with sighted peers at no more cost 
than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also free, and NV Access releases 3-4 
updates per year that fix bugs and add new features.
Since NVDA is open source<https://geeksmodo.com/open-source-blindness/>, anyone 
is free to review the source code and propose changes. While anyone can propose 
a change and submit code, it’s still reviewed and approved by NV Access before 
it is included in anything anyone can download. This ensures the security of 
the software from unauthorised changes and means that the final product 
available from https://www.nvaccess.org/ is just as secure and well vetted as 
the closed source from another company. Thousands of people from all over the 
world constantly contribute to the project which benefits everyone in the end. 
NVDA is a screen reader made for the blind by the blind. NV Access is overseen 
by a board of directors (of whom at least 33% mu

RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Richard Turner 
I found the article by searching for the title.
The author is: CHRISTOPHER 
WRIGHT<https://geeksmodo.com/author/christopher-wright/>, who apparently is 
wrong, grin.
It is on the GeeksModo web site at: Comparing VoiceOver and NVDA | 
GeeksModo<https://geeksmodo.com/comparing-voiceover-and-nvda/>

I would suggest any Mac VoiceOver user who can point out his errors contact him 
through the web site's comments.
Here is one that is up already:
Tyler Stephen says
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2021 AT 9:32 AM
Is the Disk Utility crash bug not fixed in macOS 11.2?

Christopher Wright says
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 23, 2021 AT 4:45 PM
I don't know. I exclusively run Windows on my Mac and haven't used Big Sur's 
11.2 update. If this indeed has been fixed, I can edit the article to reflect
this.

My only statement about this article is what an absolute waste of bytes, and I 
wouldn't use a Mac if you gave it to me, but I know lots of people who use 
Mac's exclusively and hopefully will take this person to task on their 
stupidity.
.



Richard

Ralph's Observation:  It is a mistake to allow any mechanical object<>to 
realize that you are in a hurry.


My web site, www.turner42.com<http://www.turner42.com>



From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they're currently a 
Windows user. Maybe you'd like to point out where the article is incorrect. I'm 
not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but I would like to know more.

Also, if you're going to repost an article it would be good if you could post 
the entire article, including who the author is or provide a link to the 
article, so people can read it in it's entirety. BTW, I did see this forwarded 
to another list, so this isn't my first time reading this.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of kliph 
miller Sr
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:50 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com<mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It's clear to me about this article 2 things.
1. This is a windows user
2. They haven't done there homework.
Note: I am not the author of this article!

Introduction
The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one's financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple's VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end of this article, you will have a better understanding of each 
product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.
NVDA
Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind the 
project is an Australian company called NV Access 
(www.nvaccess.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nvaccess.org%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C1a96b4cc2cc54c587b8008d8dcbb689d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C637502044753999539%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000=HuwDbJojdd7L2uQA1VliLgS4BJMAOWQh9DyiW9AHgrM%3D=0>).
 It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes with the JAWS for Windows 
screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or Vispero as they are now known 
by. It offers many of the same features that JAWS offers and should be suitable 
for 99% of screen reader users. The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely 
compelling. It is offered free of charge to anyone in the world, meaning there 
is no longer a financial barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do 
anything else on a computer. NV Access does rely on donations, either from 
individuals or grants from large companies, so if you can donate, it is very 
much worth it to help this amazing project continue long into the future. The 
obvious benefit is that a blind person can compete on a level playing field 
with sighted peers at no more cost than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also 
free, and NV Access releases 3-4 updates per year that fix bugs and add new 
features.
Since NVDA is open 
source<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgeeksmodo.com%2Fopen-source-blindness%2F=04%7C01%7C%7C1a96b4cc2cc54c587b8008d8dcbb689d%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435

Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread kliph miller Sr 
It came from David goldfields top tidbits news letter

Are you good at editing audio or want to learn how? Want to explore all the 
options on how to make your recordings for podcasts or other files sound good? 
Then audio editing101 is the group for you, join here
audio-editing101+subscr...@groups.io
 Let’s master editing audio 
together!

> On Mar 1, 2021, at 7:21 AM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> Kliph,
> Who wrote the article and where is it from?
> 
> 
> Richard
> 
> "You know," said Arthur, "it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a 
> Vogon airlock with a man from Betelgeuse, and about to die of asphyxiation in 
> deep space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I 
> was young."
> "Why, what did she tell you?"
> "I don't know, I didn't listen."
> -- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy
> 
>> On Mar 1, 2021, at 4:49 AM, kliph miller Sr  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
 It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
>>> 1. This is a windows user
>>> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
>>> Note: I am not the author of this article!
>>> 
 Introduction
 The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or 
 visually impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with 
 modern computing  devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen 
 readers have been very expensive third-party programs that were very 
 difficult to obtain depending on one’s financial status. However, several 
 free yet capable screen readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two 
 that we will be discussing are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the 
 Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for Windows. Both are powerful screen 
 readers in their own right, but they have their strengths and weaknesses 
 which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully by the end of this article, 
 you will have a better understanding of each product and its individual 
 strengths/weaknesses.
 
 NVDA
 Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source 
 screen reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization 
 behind the project is an Australian company called NV Access 
 (www.nvaccess.org 
 ).
  It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes with the JAWS for 
 Windows screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or Vispero as they 
 are now known by. It offers many of the same features that JAWS offers and 
 should be suitable for 99% of screen reader users. The philosophy behind 
 NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered free of charge to anyone in 
 the world, meaning there is no longer a financial barrier for blind people 
 to work, learn, or do anything else on a computer. NV Access does rely on 
 donations, either from individuals or grants from large companies, so if 
 you can donate, it is very much worth it to help this amazing project 
 continue long into the future. The obvious benefit is that a blind person 
 can compete on a level playing field with sighted peers at no more cost 
 than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also free, and NV Access releases 
 3-4 updates per year that fix bugs and add new features.
 
 Since NVDA is open source 
 ,
  anyone is free to review the source code and propose changes. While 
 anyone can propose a change and submit code, it’s still reviewed and 
 approved by NV Access before it is included in anything anyone can 
 download. This ensures the security of the software from unauthorised 
 changes and means that the final product available from 
 https://www.nvaccess.org/ 
 
  is just as secure and well vetted as the closed source from another 
 company. Thousands of people from all over the world constantly contribute 
 to the

RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread richring 
This person knows very little about VoiceOver and shouldn’t be comparing it to 
NVDA!

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 8:08 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

 

I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they’re currently a 
Windows user. Maybe you’d like to point out where the article is incorrect. I’m 
not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but I would like to know more.

 

Also, if you’re going to repost an article it would be good if you could post 
the entire article, including who the author is or provide a link to the 
article, so people can read it in it’s entirety. BTW, I did see this forwarded 
to another list, so this isn’t my first time reading this.

 

--

Christopher (AKA CJ)

Chaltain at Outlook

 

From: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com>  
mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> > On Behalf Of 
kliph miller Sr
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:50 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com <mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com> 
Subject: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

 


It’s clear to me about this article 2 things. 


1. This is a windows user

2. They haven’t done there homework.

Note: I am not the author of this article!

 


Introduction


The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end of this article, you will have a better understanding of each 
product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.


NVDA


Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind the 
project is an Australian company called NV Access ( <http://www.nvaccess.org/> 
www.nvaccess.org). It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes with 
the JAWS for Windows screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or Vispero as 
they are now known by. It offers many of the same features that JAWS offers and 
should be suitable for 99% of screen reader users. The philosophy behind NVDA 
is extremely compelling. It is offered free of charge to anyone in the world, 
meaning there is no longer a financial barrier for blind people to work, learn, 
or do anything else on a computer. NV Access does rely on donations, either 
from individuals or grants from large companies, so if you can donate, it is 
very much worth it to help this amazing project continue long into the future. 
The obvious benefit is that a blind person can compete on a level playing field 
with sighted peers at no more cost than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also 
free, and NV Access releases 3-4 updates per year that fix bugs and add new 
features.

Since NVDA is  <https://geeksmodo.com/open-source-blindness/> open source, 
anyone is free to review the source code and propose changes. While anyone can 
propose a change and submit code, it’s still reviewed and approved by NV Access 
before it is included in anything anyone can download. This ensures the 
security of the software from unauthorised changes and means that the final 
product available from  <https://www.nvaccess.org/> https://www.nvaccess.org/ 
is just as secure and well vetted as the closed source from another company. 
Thousands of people from all over the world constantly contribute to the 
project which benefits everyone in the end. NVDA is a screen reader made for 
the blind by the blind. NV Access is overseen by a board of directors (of whom 
at least 33% must be blind or vision impaired, according to their  
<https://www.nvaccess.org/about-nv-access/> constitution.


VoiceOver


 <https://support.apple.com/en-ke/guide/voiceover/welcome/mac> VoiceOver is 
Apple’s built-in and the only screen reader for the Mac. It has been around 
since 2005, although the last significant update was in 2011 with Mac OS X 
Lion. VoiceOver works well with Apple’s built-in apps and used to be very 
reliable. Since it is built into the system, anyone can walk up to a Mac 
running a modern version of macOS and get it talking by pressing Command+F5. 
Apple should be commended for building a very capable screen reader into the 
system and showing the rest of the world that it is possible to build very 
robust accessibility features into mainstream products.

As previously mentioned, however, Voi

RE: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Christopher Chaltain 
I think the author is pretty upfront about the fact that they’re currently a 
Windows user. Maybe you’d like to point out where the article is incorrect. I’m 
not a VoiceOver user on the Mac myself, but I would like to know more.

Also, if you’re going to repost an article it would be good if you could post 
the entire article, including who the author is or provide a link to the 
article, so people can read it in it’s entirety. BTW, I did see this forwarded 
to another list, so this isn’t my first time reading this.

--
Christopher (AKA CJ)
Chaltain at Outlook

From: viphone@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of kliph 
miller Sr
Sent: Monday, March 1, 2021 6:50 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
1. This is a windows user
2. They haven’t done there homework.
Note: I am not the author of this article!


Introduction
The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end of this article, you will have a better understanding of each 
product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.
NVDA
Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind the 
project is an Australian company called NV Access 
(www.nvaccess.org<http://www.nvaccess.org/>). It has been around since 2006 and 
primarily competes with the JAWS for Windows screen reader produced by Freedom 
Scientific or Vispero as they are now known by. It offers many of the same 
features that JAWS offers and should be suitable for 99% of screen reader 
users. The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered free 
of charge to anyone in the world, meaning there is no longer a financial 
barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do anything else on a computer. NV 
Access does rely on donations, either from individuals or grants from large 
companies, so if you can donate, it is very much worth it to help this amazing 
project continue long into the future. The obvious benefit is that a blind 
person can compete on a level playing field with sighted peers at no more cost 
than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also free, and NV Access releases 3-4 
updates per year that fix bugs and add new features.
Since NVDA is open source<https://geeksmodo.com/open-source-blindness/>, anyone 
is free to review the source code and propose changes. While anyone can propose 
a change and submit code, it’s still reviewed and approved by NV Access before 
it is included in anything anyone can download. This ensures the security of 
the software from unauthorised changes and means that the final product 
available from https://www.nvaccess.org/ is just as secure and well vetted as 
the closed source from another company. Thousands of people from all over the 
world constantly contribute to the project which benefits everyone in the end. 
NVDA is a screen reader made for the blind by the blind. NV Access is overseen 
by a board of directors (of whom at least 33% must be blind or vision impaired, 
according to their constitution<https://www.nvaccess.org/about-nv-access/>.
VoiceOver
VoiceOver<https://support.apple.com/en-ke/guide/voiceover/welcome/mac> is 
Apple’s built-in and the only screen reader for the Mac. It has been around 
since 2005, although the last significant update was in 2011 with Mac OS X 
Lion. VoiceOver works well with Apple’s built-in apps and used to be very 
reliable. Since it is built into the system, anyone can walk up to a Mac 
running a modern version of macOS and get it talking by pressing Command+F5. 
Apple should be commended for building a very capable screen reader into the 
system and showing the rest of the world that it is possible to build very 
robust accessibility features into mainstream products.
As previously mentioned, however, VoiceOver is not as reliable as it could or 
should be. Apple has not made significant changes in nearly a decade, and bugs 
are rarely if ever fixed. Issues have piled up over the years and the 
experience, while still good, is far from satisfactory depending on the tasks 
you wish to do. The latest trend appears to be introducing bugs that make 
certain things unusable. For example, there is a bug in macOS Big Sur where 
VoiceOver crashes when opening the Disk Util

Re: Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread Richard Turner 
Kliph,
Who wrote the article and where is it from?


Richard

"You know," said Arthur, "it's at times like this, when I'm trapped in a Vogon 
airlock with a man from Betelgeuse, and about to die of asphyxiation in deep 
space, that I really wish I'd listened to what my mother told me when I was 
young."
"Why, what did she tell you?"
"I don't know, I didn't listen."
-- Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy

On Mar 1, 2021, at 4:49 AM, kliph miller Sr  wrote:


It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
1. This is a windows user
2. They haven’t done there homework.
Note: I am not the author of this article!

Introduction

The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or visually 
impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with modern 
computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers have been 
very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to obtain 
depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet capable screen 
readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we will be discussing 
are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for 
Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own right, but they have 
their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in more detail. Hopefully 
by the end of this article, you will have a better understanding of each 
product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.

NVDA

Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind the 
project is an Australian company called NV Access 
(www.nvaccess.org).
 It has been around since 2006 and primarily competes with the JAWS for Windows 
screen reader produced by Freedom Scientific or Vispero as they are now known 
by. It offers many of the same features that JAWS offers and should be suitable 
for 99% of screen reader users. The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely 
compelling. It is offered free of charge to anyone in the world, meaning there 
is no longer a financial barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do 
anything else on a computer. NV Access does rely on donations, either from 
individuals or grants from large companies, so if you can donate, it is very 
much worth it to help this amazing project continue long into the future. The 
obvious benefit is that a blind person can compete on a level playing field 
with sighted peers at no more cost than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also 
free, and NV Access releases 3-4 updates per year that fix bugs and add new 
features.

Since NVDA is open 
source,
 anyone is free to review the source code and propose changes. While anyone can 
propose a change and submit code, it’s still reviewed and approved by NV Access 
before it is included in anything anyone can download. This ensures the 
security of the software from unauthorised changes and means that the final 
product available from 
https://www.nvaccess.org/
 is just as secure and well vetted as the closed source from another company. 
Thousands of people from all over the world constantly contribute to the 
project which benefits everyone in the end. NVDA is a screen reader made for 
the blind by the blind. NV Access is overseen by a board of directors (of whom 
at least 33% must be blind or vision impaired, according to their 
constitution.

VoiceOver

Comparing VoiceOver And NVDA

2021-03-01 Thread kliph miller Sr 
>> It’s clear to me about this article 2 things.
> 1. This is a windows user
> 2. They haven’t done there homework.
> Note: I am not the author of this article!
> 
>> Introduction
>> The modern era has brought many advantages for those who are blind or 
>> visually impaired. One of the most important tools a blind user uses with 
>> modern computing devices is a screen reader. Traditionally, screen readers 
>> have been very expensive third-party programs that were very difficult to 
>> obtain depending on one’s financial status. However, several free yet 
>> capable screen readers have emerged in the last 20 years. The two that we 
>> will be discussing are Apple’s VoiceOver for macOS and the Nonvisual Desktop 
>> Access or NVDA for Windows. Both are powerful screen readers in their own 
>> right, but they have their strengths and weaknesses which I will discuss in 
>> more detail. Hopefully by the end of this article, you will have a better 
>> understanding of each product and its individual strengths/weaknesses.
>> 
>> NVDA
>> Nonvisual Desktop Access or NVDA for short is a free and open source screen 
>> reader for the Microsoft Windows operating system. The organization behind 
>> the project is an Australian company called NV Access (www.nvaccess.org 
>> ). It has been around since 2006 and primarily 
>> competes with the JAWS for Windows screen reader produced by Freedom 
>> Scientific or Vispero as they are now known by. It offers many of the same 
>> features that JAWS offers and should be suitable for 99% of screen reader 
>> users. The philosophy behind NVDA is extremely compelling. It is offered 
>> free of charge to anyone in the world, meaning there is no longer a 
>> financial barrier for blind people to work, learn, or do anything else on a 
>> computer. NV Access does rely on donations, either from individuals or 
>> grants from large companies, so if you can donate, it is very much worth it 
>> to help this amazing project continue long into the future. The obvious 
>> benefit is that a blind person can compete on a level playing field with 
>> sighted peers at no more cost than anyone else. Updates to NVDA are also 
>> free, and NV Access releases 3-4 updates per year that fix bugs and add new 
>> features.
>> 
>> Since NVDA is open source , 
>> anyone is free to review the source code and propose changes. While anyone 
>> can propose a change and submit code, it’s still reviewed and approved by NV 
>> Access before it is included in anything anyone can download. This ensures 
>> the security of the software from unauthorised changes and means that the 
>> final product available from https://www.nvaccess.org/ 
>>  is just as secure and well vetted as the closed 
>> source from another company. Thousands of people from all over the world 
>> constantly contribute to the project which benefits everyone in the end. 
>> NVDA is a screen reader made for the blind by the blind. NV Access is 
>> overseen by a board of directors (of whom at least 33% must be blind or 
>> vision impaired, according to their constitution 
>> .
>> 
>> VoiceOver
>> VoiceOver  is 
>> Apple’s built-in and the only screen reader for the Mac. It has been around 
>> since 2005, although the last significant update was in 2011 with Mac OS X 
>> Lion. VoiceOver works well with Apple’s built-in apps and used to be very 
>> reliable. Since it is built into the system, anyone can walk up to a Mac 
>> running a modern version of macOS and get it talking by pressing Command+F5. 
>> Apple should be commended for building a very capable screen reader into the 
>> system and showing the rest of the world that it is possible to build very 
>> robust accessibility features into mainstream products.
>> 
>> As previously mentioned, however, VoiceOver is not as reliable as it could 
>> or should be. Apple has not made significant changes in nearly a decade, and 
>> bugs are rarely if ever fixed. Issues have piled up over the years and the 
>> experience, while still good, is far from satisfactory depending on the 
>> tasks you wish to do. The latest trend appears to be introducing bugs that 
>> make certain things unusable. For example, there is a bug in macOS Big Sur 
>> where VoiceOver crashes when opening the Disk Utility application in macOS 
>> Recovery mode 
>> .
>>  This is absolutely unacceptable and would be fixed promptly if it was 
>> impacting sighted users, yet someone somewhere decided it was okay to 
>> release with this broken feature for blind users. This goes against Apple’s 
>> commitment to accessibility 
>>  and the high 
>> standard of quality many would