re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Wayne Scott]

I prefer using the braille display to the rotor.  No wrist 
strain.  But, yes, when I use the speech, it can ge	tiresome.


- Original Message -
From: "'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone" <viphone@googlegroups.com
To: VI Phone Users <viphone@googlegroups.com
Date sent: Thu, 19 Jan 2017 23:00:21 +0000
Subject: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

HI all,


I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging 
around

that I wanted views upon, so here it is!


As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the 
rotor
system has become rather more of an irksome task.  I have most of 
the
items offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of 
wrist
strain in sometimes needing to turn it several times in 
succession on

web pages, etc.


I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps 
having
two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and 
change the

rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.


First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and,
secondly, what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to 
suggest?



If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you 
could
give your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with 
a

number of voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.


I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.


Thanks.


Carol P - UK


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RE: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Sieghard Weitzel]

I think people should write to Apple Accessibility and point out that the rotor 
can be too cluttered to be efficient and Apple should maybe come up with a 
better way to do certain things especially frequent things like changing from 
character to word or line or to select things like headings, form controls, 
tables, lists, links etc. on web pages. I don't think we need to give 
suggestions, after all that why Apple has smart people in their teams, they can 
come up with better ways to do stuff just like they came up with a better and 
easier way to move apps. Just tell them to not stop and leave things at where 
they are but to continue to innovate and make things better and also to maybe 
offer choices on how to accomplish things because while the rotor works for me 
it may not for somebody else who has issues with making certain movements. 
Wrist strain doesn't even come into play for me because I don't use my wrist to 
make the rotor gesture, it doesn't have to be so pronounced, just moving two 
fingers in opposite directions works fine. On the other hand I have hand 
injuries from my accident which also caused my blindness and in my case this 
means I only have 3 fingers on each hand (index and middle fingers are missing) 
so a 4-finger tap for me means I have to put the phone down and use both hands 
to do it, not very efficient and I wish there were an easier way to move to the 
end of a page.

Regards,
Sieghard

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Christopher Chaltain
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:28 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

I don't find the angle gestures in Talk Back to be impossible to use. I don't 
recall a time when I struggled with them. I know some complain about them, but 
some iPhone users complain about the roter as well.

I personally prefer the Talk Back approach. The things I access the most in the 
roter are the granularity settings, e.g. character, word, line, and in Talk 
Back, I can change these with a flick up or down. If I want to get to more 
options, I can bring up a context menu and then just access them out of a list, 
as Mary describes.

IMHO, the roter is overused in VoiceOver. Of course, I just may have too many 
items in it. The fact that VoiceOver may put me somewhere else in the roter, is 
nice when VoiceOver guesses right, but it can be a pain when it guesses wrong, 
and I've got to twist my way back to the settings I want to change.

I agree that the Talk Back gesture set is too limited. Hopefully the Talk Back 
and Android developers are listening to us and will open it up some in the near 
future.

On 19/01/17 22:01, Mary Otten wrote:
> The fly in the ointment with the talkback approach is that they have very few 
> gestures, and many of those they do have are the right angle gestures which 
> cause a lot of people a lot of problems. It is true that you can change the 
> jesters, which is nice. But if you are one of those who has difficulty either 
> performing or remembering those gestures, and which one goes with what 
> action, it really doesn't do you much good to have all that customizability. 
> I don't personally have a problem with the rotor, although I do wish it were 
> shorter. I am careful about what I leave in there. But depending on where I 
> am and where I need to go, it's quite a few turns or twists away.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Marie <scribbl...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>> This is one of the few places where I think that Talk Back on the Android is 
>> doing a better job. Instead of the rotor there is the Global context menu or 
>> the Local context menu. Talk Back will now let you change the gesture to 
>> invoke either of these menus and once there, you use the normal swiping that 
>> we are all accustomed to. I got to try this out with a newer version of Talk 
>> Back and was quite impressed. In the past the gesture to invoke these menus 
>> was all but impossible to use.
>> JMT
>> Marie
>>
>>
>> -Original Message----- From: Mary Otten
>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 3:27 PM
>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?
>>
>>
>>
>> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
>> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
>> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
>> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
>> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
>> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
>> separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, in 
&

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Marie]

Oh I agree, the right angle gestures are terrible. But I was able to 
reassign the left/right swipe for the global menu and the right/left swipe 
for the local. I found these easy to perform and to remember. Once the menu 
is up there are some great links like going directly to your talk back 
setting, etc. I don't have any major issue with the rotor but there are 
times when it seems I have to go around it twice to find what I want. 
Fortunately I don't have the mobility problems that some have so it is not a 
big deal.

Marie


-Original Message- 
From: Mary Otten

Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 8:01 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

The fly in the ointment with the talkback approach is that they have very 
few gestures, and many of those they do have are the right angle gestures 
which cause a lot of people a lot of problems. It is true that you can 
change the jesters, which is nice. But if you are one of those who has 
difficulty either performing or remembering those gestures, and which one 
goes with what action, it really doesn't do you much good to have all that 
customizability. I don't personally have a problem with the rotor, although 
I do wish it were shorter. I am careful about what I leave in there. But 
depending on where I am and where I need to go, it's quite a few turns or 
twists away.


Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Marie <scribbl...@comcast.net> wrote:

This is one of the few places where I think that Talk Back on the Android 
is doing a better job. Instead of the rotor there is the Global context 
menu or the Local context menu. Talk Back will now let you change the 
gesture to invoke either of these menus and once there, you use the normal 
swiping that we are all accustomed to. I got to try this out with a newer 
version of Talk Back and was quite impressed. In the past the gesture to 
invoke these menus was all but impossible to use.

JMT
Marie


-Original Message- From: Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 3:27 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?



I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, 
in a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think 
fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.



On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
<viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:


HI all,


I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
that I wanted views upon, so here it is!



As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the 
items offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist 
strain in sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web 
pages, etc.



I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having 
two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the 
rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.



First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, 
secondly, what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?



If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could 
give your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number 
of voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.



I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.


Thanks.


Carol P - UK


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list.


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If you have any quest

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Christopher Chaltain]

One person having a problem with a gesture or even multiple people 
complaining about it doesn't mean it's almost impossible to use. That 
would be like me going on an Android list and saying that the roter or 
scrub gestures in VoiceOver are almost impossible to use. I don't have 
trouble with either gesture, but there are certainly those on this list 
who do. The gesture I have the most problem with is the four finger tap 
at the bottom of the screen to get to the end of a page, but I've never 
said that it's almost impossible to jump to the end of a page in 
VoiceOver. The most I'd ever say is that it's a gesture I have problems 
with. I just think we do each other a disservice when we use hyperbole 
and end up mis characterizing another option that might appeal to 
someone else.


On 19/01/17 23:04, Mary Otten wrote:

To each their own. I have had three android devices, make that four, I forgot 
about my first Nexus seven. And none of them worked all the time with the angle 
gestures. They just don't for me. Hit and miss. And that's inefficient. And 
judging from the amount of complaints I've heard, I am surely not alone.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 19, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't find the angle gestures in Talk Back to be impossible to use. I don't 
recall a time when I struggled with them. I know some complain about them, but 
some iPhone users complain about the roter as well.

I personally prefer the Talk Back approach. The things I access the most in the 
roter are the granularity settings, e.g. character, word, line, and in Talk 
Back, I can change these with a flick up or down. If I want to get to more 
options, I can bring up a context menu and then just access them out of a list, 
as Mary describes.

IMHO, the roter is overused in VoiceOver. Of course, I just may have too many 
items in it. The fact that VoiceOver may put me somewhere else in the roter, is 
nice when VoiceOver guesses right, but it can be a pain when it guesses wrong, 
and I've got to twist my way back to the settings I want to change.

I agree that the Talk Back gesture set is too limited. Hopefully the Talk Back 
and Android developers are listening to us and will open it up some in the near 
future.


On 19/01/17 22:01, Mary Otten wrote:
The fly in the ointment with the talkback approach is that they have very few 
gestures, and many of those they do have are the right angle gestures which 
cause a lot of people a lot of problems. It is true that you can change the 
jesters, which is nice. But if you are one of those who has difficulty either 
performing or remembering those gestures, and which one goes with what action, 
it really doesn't do you much good to have all that customizability. I don't 
personally have a problem with the rotor, although I do wish it were shorter. I 
am careful about what I leave in there. But depending on where I am and where I 
need to go, it's quite a few turns or twists away.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Marie <scribbl...@comcast.net> wrote:

This is one of the few places where I think that Talk Back on the Android is 
doing a better job. Instead of the rotor there is the Global context menu or 
the Local context menu. Talk Back will now let you change the gesture to invoke 
either of these menus and once there, you use the normal swiping that we are 
all accustomed to. I got to try this out with a newer version of Talk Back and 
was quite impressed. In the past the gesture to invoke these menus was all but 
impossible to use.
JMT
Marie


-Original Message- From: Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 3:27 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?



I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed via 
the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the language 
rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to select your 
language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up web elements and 
document navigation type elements, such as word line and character. Of course, 
it can be argued that that is an artificial separation, because you do often 
want to navigate by words on the web or, in a document, maybe by headings. But 
nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and 
down flicks could be used.



On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
<viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:

HI all,


I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around that I 
wanted views upon, so here it is!


As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor system 
has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items offered on 
my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in sometimes needing 
to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.


I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-construct

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

['Carol Pearson' via VIPhone]

Richard, I like that one very much! It certainly takes some strain out and I'm 
going to practice, keep practising, and use it! :-)



Carol P - Sent from my iPhone :)


On 20 Jan 2017, at 12:26 am, Richard Turner  wrote:


I think having two rotors would be worse for most. 
To save on wrist strain, try using one finger on each hand and slide them in 
opposite directions, but parallel with each other. So, start with one finger of 
each hand in about the middle of the screen, move the left one slowly upward, 
and the right one slowly downward, that will turn the rotor clockwise. When you 
run out of room, just put the two fingers back at your starting point and 
repeat.
HTH,
Richard


> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial separation, 
> because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, in a document, 
> maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer twists of the 
> rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.
> 
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> HI all,
>> 
>> 
>> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around that 
>> I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>> 
>> 
>> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
>> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
>> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
>> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>> 
>> 
>> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having two 
>> so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the rotor 
>> setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>> 
>> 
>> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
>> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>> 
>> 
>> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
>> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
>> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
>> 
>> 
>> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> Carol P - UK
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
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>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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> 
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> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
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Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

['Carol Pearson' via VIPhone]

Mary, I can see what you're saying and agree with you. I was only thinking of 
the second rotor to try to separate things but that would only half solve the 
problem because I do find it quite tiring! :-) Okay, I'm going to keep thinking 
about it and do appreciate all the feedback I've had so far.



Carol P - Sent from my iPhone :)


On 20 Jan 2017, at 4:03 am, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote:

Sorry, richard. I guess I missed that. I read the message, the first one, but 
missed the fact that two actual rotors were apparently being suggested. That 
would be a problem and wouldn't solve the twist problem that some people have. 
That gesture is the hardest one for people coming to iOS, just like the right 
angles are the hardest for people coming to android.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Richard Turner <richardturne...@outlook.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I know you were not suggestion two rotors Mary.
> A message in the thread before yours had suggested it.  I think the first one.
> 
> SubMenus would be fine.
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mary Otten
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:55 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?
> 
> I wasn't suggesting two rotors. I was suggesting submenus off of the rotor 
> which would lessen the number of rotor twists you have to do to get the item. 
> We now have the actions rotor and the language rotor. Those are not actually 
> rotors. They are menus off of the rotor, and you get to the items by flicking 
> up or down. I am suggesting that we could have more of that sort of thing. It 
> isn't always convenient to operate your phone with two hands, which the two 
> finger method you propose requires.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Richard Turner <richardturne...@outlook.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I think having two rotors would be worse for most. 
>> To save on wrist strain, try using one finger on each hand and slide them in 
>> opposite directions, but parallel with each other. So, start with one finger 
>> of each hand in about the middle of the screen, move the left one slowly 
>> upward, and the right one slowly downward, that will turn the rotor 
>> clockwise. When you run out of room, just put the two fingers back at your 
>> starting point and repeat.
>> HTH,
>> Richard
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
>>> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
>>> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
>>> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
>>> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
>>> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
>>> separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, 
>>> in a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think 
>>> fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>>>> <viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> HI all,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
>>>> that I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
>>>> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
>>>> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
>>>> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having 
>>>> two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the 
>>>> rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
>>>> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
>>>> your ideas a whirl h

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Mary Otten]

To each their own. I have had three android devices, make that four, I forgot 
about my first Nexus seven. And none of them worked all the time with the angle 
gestures. They just don't for me. Hit and miss. And that's inefficient. And 
judging from the amount of complaints I've heard, I am surely not alone. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 8:28 PM, Christopher Chaltain <chalt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I don't find the angle gestures in Talk Back to be impossible to use. I don't 
> recall a time when I struggled with them. I know some complain about them, 
> but some iPhone users complain about the roter as well.
> 
> I personally prefer the Talk Back approach. The things I access the most in 
> the roter are the granularity settings, e.g. character, word, line, and in 
> Talk Back, I can change these with a flick up or down. If I want to get to 
> more options, I can bring up a context menu and then just access them out of 
> a list, as Mary describes.
> 
> IMHO, the roter is overused in VoiceOver. Of course, I just may have too many 
> items in it. The fact that VoiceOver may put me somewhere else in the roter, 
> is nice when VoiceOver guesses right, but it can be a pain when it guesses 
> wrong, and I've got to twist my way back to the settings I want to change.
> 
> I agree that the Talk Back gesture set is too limited. Hopefully the Talk 
> Back and Android developers are listening to us and will open it up some in 
> the near future.
> 
>> On 19/01/17 22:01, Mary Otten wrote:
>> The fly in the ointment with the talkback approach is that they have very 
>> few gestures, and many of those they do have are the right angle gestures 
>> which cause a lot of people a lot of problems. It is true that you can 
>> change the jesters, which is nice. But if you are one of those who has 
>> difficulty either performing or remembering those gestures, and which one 
>> goes with what action, it really doesn't do you much good to have all that 
>> customizability. I don't personally have a problem with the rotor, although 
>> I do wish it were shorter. I am careful about what I leave in there. But 
>> depending on where I am and where I need to go, it's quite a few turns or 
>> twists away.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Marie <scribbl...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> This is one of the few places where I think that Talk Back on the Android 
>>> is doing a better job. Instead of the rotor there is the Global context 
>>> menu or the Local context menu. Talk Back will now let you change the 
>>> gesture to invoke either of these menus and once there, you use the normal 
>>> swiping that we are all accustomed to. I got to try this out with a newer 
>>> version of Talk Back and was quite impressed. In the past the gesture to 
>>> invoke these menus was all but impossible to use.
>>> JMT
>>> Marie
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Mary Otten
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 3:27 PM
>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
>>> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
>>> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
>>> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
>>> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
>>> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
>>> separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, 
>>> in a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think 
>>> fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>>>> <viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> HI all,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
>>>> that I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
>>>> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
>>>> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
>>>> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>>>> 

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[regina alvarado]

Mary, I agree with you that more up and down flicks should be used. In fact I 
would like to see a whole new design of the rotor as those with wrist problems 
or finger weakness cannot use the rotor at all. I have a friend who cannot make 
even the beginning of the movement for the rotor, and it makes it very hard for 
her to do a lot of the things I take for granted such as reading by letter or 
word to add or delete something. I can do the motion with my fingers and wrist 
but sometimes I find even I get very tired if I need to use it a lot. 


Reggie and Lex


On Jan 19, 2017, at 6:27 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:



I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed via 
the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the language 
rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to select your 
language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up web elements and 
document navigation type elements, such as word line and character. Of course, 
it can be argued that that is an artificial separation, because you do often 
want to navigate by words on the web or, in a document, maybe by headings. But 
nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and 
down flicks could be used.


> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>  wrote:
> 
> HI all,
> 
> 
> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around that 
> I wanted views upon, so here it is!
> 
> 
> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
> 
> 
> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having two 
> so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the rotor 
> setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
> 
> 
> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
> 
> 
> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
> 
> 
> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Carol P - UK
> 
> 
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Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Christopher Chaltain]

I don't find the angle gestures in Talk Back to be impossible to use. I 
don't recall a time when I struggled with them. I know some complain 
about them, but some iPhone users complain about the roter as well.


I personally prefer the Talk Back approach. The things I access the most 
in the roter are the granularity settings, e.g. character, word, line, 
and in Talk Back, I can change these with a flick up or down. If I want 
to get to more options, I can bring up a context menu and then just 
access them out of a list, as Mary describes.


IMHO, the roter is overused in VoiceOver. Of course, I just may have too 
many items in it. The fact that VoiceOver may put me somewhere else in 
the roter, is nice when VoiceOver guesses right, but it can be a pain 
when it guesses wrong, and I've got to twist my way back to the settings 
I want to change.


I agree that the Talk Back gesture set is too limited. Hopefully the 
Talk Back and Android developers are listening to us and will open it up 
some in the near future.


On 19/01/17 22:01, Mary Otten wrote:

The fly in the ointment with the talkback approach is that they have very few 
gestures, and many of those they do have are the right angle gestures which 
cause a lot of people a lot of problems. It is true that you can change the 
jesters, which is nice. But if you are one of those who has difficulty either 
performing or remembering those gestures, and which one goes with what action, 
it really doesn't do you much good to have all that customizability. I don't 
personally have a problem with the rotor, although I do wish it were shorter. I 
am careful about what I leave in there. But depending on where I am and where I 
need to go, it's quite a few turns or twists away.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Marie <scribbl...@comcast.net> wrote:

This is one of the few places where I think that Talk Back on the Android is 
doing a better job. Instead of the rotor there is the Global context menu or 
the Local context menu. Talk Back will now let you change the gesture to invoke 
either of these menus and once there, you use the normal swiping that we are 
all accustomed to. I got to try this out with a newer version of Talk Back and 
was quite impressed. In the past the gesture to invoke these menus was all but 
impossible to use.
JMT
Marie


-Original Message- From: Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 3:27 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?



I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed via 
the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the language 
rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to select your 
language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up web elements and 
document navigation type elements, such as word line and character. Of course, 
it can be argued that that is an artificial separation, because you do often 
want to navigate by words on the web or, in a document, maybe by headings. But 
nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and 
down flicks could be used.



On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
<viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:

HI all,


I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around that I 
wanted views upon, so here it is!


As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor system 
has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items offered on 
my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in sometimes needing 
to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.


I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having two so 
that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the rotor setting 
(to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.


First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, what 
do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?


If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give your 
ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of voices to 
tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.


I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.


Thanks.


Carol P - UK


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Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Mary Otten]

Sorry, richard. I guess I missed that. I read the message, the first one, but 
missed the fact that two actual rotors were apparently being suggested. That 
would be a problem and wouldn't solve the twist problem that some people have. 
That gesture is the hardest one for people coming to iOS, just like the right 
angles are the hardest for people coming to android.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 6:39 PM, Richard Turner <richardturne...@outlook.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I know you were not suggestion two rotors Mary.
> A message in the thread before yours had suggested it.  I think the first one.
> 
> SubMenus would be fine.
> 
> Richard
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Mary Otten
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:55 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?
> 
> I wasn't suggesting two rotors. I was suggesting submenus off of the rotor 
> which would lessen the number of rotor twists you have to do to get the item. 
> We now have the actions rotor and the language rotor. Those are not actually 
> rotors. They are menus off of the rotor, and you get to the items by flicking 
> up or down. I am suggesting that we could have more of that sort of thing. It 
> isn't always convenient to operate your phone with two hands, which the two 
> finger method you propose requires.
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Richard Turner <richardturne...@outlook.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I think having two rotors would be worse for most. 
>> To save on wrist strain, try using one finger on each hand and slide them in 
>> opposite directions, but parallel with each other. So, start with one finger 
>> of each hand in about the middle of the screen, move the left one slowly 
>> upward, and the right one slowly downward, that will turn the rotor 
>> clockwise. When you run out of room, just put the two fingers back at your 
>> starting point and repeat.
>> HTH,
>> Richard
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
>>> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
>>> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
>>> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
>>> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
>>> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
>>> separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, 
>>> in a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think 
>>> fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>>>> <viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> HI all,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
>>>> that I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
>>>> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
>>>> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
>>>> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having 
>>>> two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the 
>>>> rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
>>>> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
>>>> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
>>>> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Carol P - UK
>>>> 
>>>> 
>&g

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Mary Otten]

The fly in the ointment with the talkback approach is that they have very few 
gestures, and many of those they do have are the right angle gestures which 
cause a lot of people a lot of problems. It is true that you can change the 
jesters, which is nice. But if you are one of those who has difficulty either 
performing or remembering those gestures, and which one goes with what action, 
it really doesn't do you much good to have all that customizability. I don't 
personally have a problem with the rotor, although I do wish it were shorter. I 
am careful about what I leave in there. But depending on where I am and where I 
need to go, it's quite a few turns or twists away. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Marie <scribbl...@comcast.net> wrote:
> 
> This is one of the few places where I think that Talk Back on the Android is 
> doing a better job. Instead of the rotor there is the Global context menu or 
> the Local context menu. Talk Back will now let you change the gesture to 
> invoke either of these menus and once there, you use the normal swiping that 
> we are all accustomed to. I got to try this out with a newer version of Talk 
> Back and was quite impressed. In the past the gesture to invoke these menus 
> was all but impossible to use.
> JMT
> Marie
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Mary Otten
> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 3:27 PM
> To: viphone@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?
> 
> 
> 
> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial separation, 
> because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, in a document, 
> maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer twists of the 
> rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.
> 
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>> <viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>> 
>> HI all,
>> 
>> 
>> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around that 
>> I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>> 
>> 
>> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
>> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
>> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
>> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>> 
>> 
>> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having two 
>> so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the rotor 
>> setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>> 
>> 
>> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
>> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>> 
>> 
>> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
>> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
>> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
>> 
>> 
>> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> Carol P - UK
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone.
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> 
> -- 
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RE: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Cris Ali]

I do not have a problem with the rotor the way it is.  I personally find it 
easy to switch between words letters headings etc.  This is perhaps because I 
do not have that many items included in the rotor.  The one I use the most is 
headings and characters and volume.
Cheers,
Cris 

-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Marie
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:29 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

This is one of the few places where I think that Talk Back on the Android is 
doing a better job. Instead of the rotor there is the Global context menu or 
the Local context menu. Talk Back will now let you change the gesture to invoke 
either of these menus and once there, you use the normal swiping that we are 
all accustomed to. I got to try this out with a newer version of Talk Back and 
was quite impressed. In the past the gesture to invoke these menus was all but 
impossible to use.
JMT
Marie


-Original Message-
From: Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 3:27 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?



I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, in 
a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer 
twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.


> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
> <viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> HI all,
>
>
> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
> that I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>
>
> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, 
> etc.
>
>
> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having 
> two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the 
> rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>
>
> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>
>
> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
>
>
> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> Carol P - UK
>
>
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone 
> list.
>
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or 
> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
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> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
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Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Marie]

This is one of the few places where I think that Talk Back on the Android is 
doing a better job. Instead of the rotor there is the Global context menu or 
the Local context menu. Talk Back will now let you change the gesture to 
invoke either of these menus and once there, you use the normal swiping that 
we are all accustomed to. I got to try this out with a newer version of Talk 
Back and was quite impressed. In the past the gesture to invoke these menus 
was all but impossible to use.

JMT
Marie


-Original Message- 
From: Mary Otten

Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 3:27 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?



I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, in 
a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer 
twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.



On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
<viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:


HI all,


I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
that I wanted views upon, so here it is!



As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, 
etc.



I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having 
two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the 
rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.



First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?



If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.



I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.


Thanks.


Carol P - UK


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To 

RE: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Richard Turner]

I know you were not suggestion two rotors Mary.
A message in the thread before yours had suggested it.  I think the first one.

SubMenus would be fine.

Richard


-Original Message-
From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Mary Otten
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 4:55 PM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

I wasn't suggesting two rotors. I was suggesting submenus off of the rotor 
which would lessen the number of rotor twists you have to do to get the item. 
We now have the actions rotor and the language rotor. Those are not actually 
rotors. They are menus off of the rotor, and you get to the items by flicking 
up or down. I am suggesting that we could have more of that sort of thing. It 
isn't always convenient to operate your phone with two hands, which the two 
finger method you propose requires.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Richard Turner <richardturne...@outlook.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I think having two rotors would be worse for most. 
> To save on wrist strain, try using one finger on each hand and slide them in 
> opposite directions, but parallel with each other. So, start with one finger 
> of each hand in about the middle of the screen, move the left one slowly 
> upward, and the right one slowly downward, that will turn the rotor 
> clockwise. When you run out of room, just put the two fingers back at your 
> starting point and repeat.
> HTH,
> Richard
> 
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
>> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
>> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
>> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
>> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
>> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
>> separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, in 
>> a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer 
>> twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>>> <viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> HI all,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
>>> that I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
>>> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
>>> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
>>> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having two 
>>> so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the rotor 
>>> setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
>>> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
>>> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
>>> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Carol P - UK
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> ema

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Michael Feir]

Remember that you can remove and re-order options on the rotor. I have the
majority of options added to my rotor. However, I've customised the order
of options so that I don't have to turn the rotor a great deal to get to
what I need in most circumstances. I've also removed options which I simply
wasn't using. Personally, I wouldn't mind having some sort of multi-rotor
selection but I think some people would find it harder remembering which
options were on which rotor. The way things are now, you'll eventually get
to what you need if you keep turning the rotor.

One thing I definitely support is making certain that any critical options
aren't exclusively acesivle via the rotor. I'm glad you can now change
typing mode inside the settings app rather than strictly through the rotor.
The typing mode deeply effects user experience and I used to run into cases
where beginners who couldn't master the rotor found it very difficult to do
much with their devices once they acidentally trapped themselves in a
typing mode which was hard for them.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 7:26 PM Richard Turner 
wrote:

>
>
> I think having two rotors would be worse for most.
>
> To save on wrist strain, try using one finger on each hand and slide them
> in opposite directions, but parallel with each other. So, start with one
> finger of each hand in about the middle of the screen, move the left one
> slowly upward, and the right one slowly downward, that will turn the rotor
> clockwise. When you run out of room, just put the two fingers back at your
> starting point and repeat.
>
> HTH,
>
> Richard
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is
> accessed via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job
> with the language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and
> down to select your language. Maybe they could do something like that
> splitting up web elements and document navigation type elements, such as
> word line and character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an
> artificial separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on
> the web or, in a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I
> do think fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be
> used.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone <
> viphone@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >> HI all,
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around
> that I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor
> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items
> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in
> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having
> two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the
> rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and,
> secondly, what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could
> give your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number
> of voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Thanks.
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> Carol P - UK
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >> --
>
> >> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone
> list.
>
> >>
>
> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the
> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>
> >>
>
> >> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
> >>
>
> >> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>
> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>
> >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "VIPhone" group.
>
> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
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> >
>
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> list.
>
> >
>
> > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or
> if you feel that a member's post 

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Mary Otten]

I wasn't suggesting two rotors. I was suggesting submenus off of the rotor 
which would lessen the number of rotor twists you have to do to get the item. 
We now have the actions rotor and the language rotor. Those are not actually 
rotors. They are menus off of the rotor, and you get to the items by flicking 
up or down. I am suggesting that we could have more of that sort of thing. It 
isn't always convenient to operate your phone with two hands, which the two 
finger method you propose requires.
Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2017, at 4:26 PM, Richard Turner  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I think having two rotors would be worse for most. 
> To save on wrist strain, try using one finger on each hand and slide them in 
> opposite directions, but parallel with each other. So, start with one finger 
> of each hand in about the middle of the screen, move the left one slowly 
> upward, and the right one slowly downward, that will turn the rotor 
> clockwise. When you run out of room, just put the two fingers back at your 
> starting point and repeat.
> HTH,
> Richard
> 
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
>> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
>> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
>> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
>> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
>> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial 
>> separation, because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, in 
>> a document, maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer 
>> twists of the rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.
>> 
>> 
>>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> HI all,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
>>> that I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
>>> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
>>> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
>>> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having two 
>>> so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the rotor 
>>> setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
>>> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
>>> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
>>> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Carol P - UK
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>>> 
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners 
>>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>>> 
>>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>>> 
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/viphone.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
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>> To post to 

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Richard Turner]

I think having two rotors would be worse for most. 
To save on wrist strain, try using one finger on each hand and slide them in 
opposite directions, but parallel with each other. So, start with one finger of 
each hand in about the middle of the screen, move the left one slowly upward, 
and the right one slowly downward, that will turn the rotor clockwise. When you 
run out of room, just put the two fingers back at your starting point and 
repeat.
HTH,
Richard


> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:27 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed 
> via the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the 
> language rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to 
> select your language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up 
> web elements and document navigation type elements, such as word line and 
> character. Of course, it can be argued that that is an artificial separation, 
> because you do often want to navigate by words on the web or, in a document, 
> maybe by headings. But nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer twists of the 
> rotor and Moore up and down flicks could be used.
> 
> 
>> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> HI all,
>> 
>> 
>> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around that 
>> I wanted views upon, so here it is!
>> 
>> 
>> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
>> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
>> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
>> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
>> 
>> 
>> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having two 
>> so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the rotor 
>> setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
>> 
>> 
>> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
>> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
>> 
>> 
>> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
>> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
>> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
>> 
>> 
>> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> Carol P - UK
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
>> 
>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
>> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
>> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "VIPhone" group.
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> 
> -- 
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You received this 

Re: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Mary Otten]

 I do think it would be a good idea if the top level menu which is accessed via 
the rotor could be made shorter. I think they did a good job with the language 
rotor, pick the language setting and then flick up and down to select your 
language. Maybe they could do something like that splitting up web elements and 
document navigation type elements, such as word line and character. Of course, 
it can be argued that that is an artificial separation, because you do often 
want to navigate by words on the web or, in a document, maybe by headings. But 
nothing is perfect, and I do think fewer twists of the rotor and Moore up and 
down flicks could be used.


> On Jan 19, 2017, at 3:00 PM, 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone 
>  wrote:
> 
> HI all,
> 
> 
> I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around that 
> I wanted views upon, so here it is!
> 
> 
> As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
> system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the items 
> offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist strain in 
> sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on web pages, etc.
> 
> 
> I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having two 
> so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the rotor 
> setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.
> 
> 
> First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, secondly, 
> what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?
> 
> 
> If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could give 
> your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a number of 
> voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.
> 
> 
> I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> 
> Carol P - UK
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the V iPhone list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your V iPhone list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - 
> you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/
> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "VIPhone" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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RE: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

[Laury-Johnson, Shawnese (LARA)]

Hello you are definitely not alone. I notice that there are times when I'm 
trying to activate the roter and nothing happens. Then there are other times 
when the slightest hand gesture causes me to quickly zip by the options 
available on the roter. I'm not sure what the fix would be.
Thanks 

-Original Message-
From: 'Carol Pearson' via VIPhone [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 6:00 PM
To: VI Phone Users <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Subject: WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

HI all,


I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around that I 
wanted views upon, so here it is!


As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the 
items offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist 
strain in sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on 
web pages, etc.


I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having 
two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the 
rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.


First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, 
secondly, what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?


If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could 
give your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a 
number of voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.


I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.


Thanks.


Carol P - UK


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WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK?

['Carol Pearson' via VIPhone]

HI all,


I've not written for a good while but have had something nagging around 
that I wanted views upon, so here it is!



As our i devices have grown in features, so I have found that the rotor 
system has become rather more of an irksome task. I have most of the 
items offered on my rotor and have noticed a certain amount of wrist 
strain in sometimes needing to turn it several times in succession on 
web pages, etc.



I am wondering if this rotor needs to be re-constructed, perhaps having 
two so that you can divide the rotor into better sections and change the 
rotor setting (to 1 or 2) via a designated keystroke.



First, am I the only one who finds this a little cumbersome and, 
secondly, what do you think to the kind of idea I'd like to suggest?



If indeed people think they'd like to see a change, perhaps you could 
give your ideas a whirl here also and then we can all speak with a 
number of voices to tell Apple what we think we'd like/need.



I look forward to receiving some feedback on this issue.


Thanks.


Carol P - UK


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