Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Or learn from the lesson. The next time a new operating system comes out, think of what you went through during the last one when you jumped into it before others had reported that bugs were fixed. Remember that you do not have to get the latest upgrade just because you can do so. If your phone is working, don't mess with it until the next operating system is stable and working as it should, then you won't be a complainer. If you take the plunge, don't complain if the water is too cold. It is your responsibility, not Apple's, and you, not Apple, are taking the risk when you upgrade. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Pinky" To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2014 1:51 AM Subject: RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Pablo, We hear you loud and clear. We don't like bugs either so like in my case I have not downloaded to the new version. If you want to keep complaining about the bugs email Apple and complain then it might help. But to keep complaining to this list of all the problem is not going to help solve the problem. So why don't you just pull your big fat lip back in and move on and deal with the bugs until they are fix. If not complain to Apple. Have a good day. Ed -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:53 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Sieghard I can say the same thing about you. You always are defending apple here, you always are trying to minimize the problems or apple bugs, and looks like you are soling iPhones. Yu always has good ways to fix a problem, and sometimes you have good news about something interesting. Because of that , you looks like you are making some money with apple. Even though, I could be wrong. But, I can say that is time to stop making advertisement of apple here. You don't want me talking bad about apple? Ok, easy, accept some times, that the people with bugs has the right to be mad, and go back to your corner, but don't start defending apple like someone who is defending their family. You almost always, when someone is frustrated with the last bugs of apple, you jump to the front, and starting justifying apple, or trying to make the problem to looks, like without importance. It has been happening in the last 3 years. Also Sieghard, you know that I don't have one point, I have several points, and every year I have several points. Or you mean because of I made complain about IOs 6, I have no right to say anything about IOs 8? Why? Are you saying that the bugs that IOs 6 had, were the same that IOs 8 has? If it is what you mean, man, then apple is worse than I thought. So, you don't want to read me making complain about IOs 8? You have 2 choices. One you can give me the money that I paid for my iPhone, or you can just recognize that apple is wrong, and stop justifying apple behavior. Apple is been unfair since Steve Jobs died. This email list is to try about apple accessibility, specifically on iPhones. This list is not to defend or attack any position. My concerns are related with the accessibility. Your position is about what? Thanks Yours truly, Pablo - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 5:47 AM Subject: RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Christopher and others, I agree that Pablo has a point. However, he has made his point dozens of time over the last few years and I think many list members are just getting tired of hearing his rather radical point of view true as it may be. The point is that repeating it on Viphone has about as much effect on Apple as beating a dead horse would have on riding it from point A to point B. I don't think anybody enjoys the bugs, but maybe it's time for Pablo to start a website or Google Plus community or something along these lines with the express purpose of attracting people who feel how he does and where Apple may notice them should enough people sign up. But I guess since he is leaving the iOS platform after his 5S lifetime is over, this will not happen so we're back at running in circles. I am at any rate done with comments regarding this at least until Pablo is back with more of the same when iOS 9 comes out *smile*. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 6:31 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 All this is
RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Hi Pablo, We hear you loud and clear. We don't like bugs either so like in my case I have not downloaded to the new version. If you want to keep complaining about the bugs email Apple and complain then it might help. But to keep complaining to this list of all the problem is not going to help solve the problem. So why don't you just pull your big fat lip back in and move on and deal with the bugs until they are fix. If not complain to Apple. Have a good day. Ed -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pablo Morales Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 10:53 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Sieghard I can say the same thing about you. You always are defending apple here, you always are trying to minimize the problems or apple bugs, and looks like you are soling iPhones. Yu always has good ways to fix a problem, and sometimes you have good news about something interesting. Because of that , you looks like you are making some money with apple. Even though, I could be wrong. But, I can say that is time to stop making advertisement of apple here. You don't want me talking bad about apple? Ok, easy, accept some times, that the people with bugs has the right to be mad, and go back to your corner, but don't start defending apple like someone who is defending their family. You almost always, when someone is frustrated with the last bugs of apple, you jump to the front, and starting justifying apple, or trying to make the problem to looks, like without importance. It has been happening in the last 3 years. Also Sieghard, you know that I don't have one point, I have several points, and every year I have several points. Or you mean because of I made complain about IOs 6, I have no right to say anything about IOs 8? Why? Are you saying that the bugs that IOs 6 had, were the same that IOs 8 has? If it is what you mean, man, then apple is worse than I thought. So, you don't want to read me making complain about IOs 8? You have 2 choices. One you can give me the money that I paid for my iPhone, or you can just recognize that apple is wrong, and stop justifying apple behavior. Apple is been unfair since Steve Jobs died. This email list is to try about apple accessibility, specifically on iPhones. This list is not to defend or attack any position. My concerns are related with the accessibility. Your position is about what? Thanks Yours truly, Pablo - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 5:47 AM Subject: RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Christopher and others, I agree that Pablo has a point. However, he has made his point dozens of time over the last few years and I think many list members are just getting tired of hearing his rather radical point of view true as it may be. The point is that repeating it on Viphone has about as much effect on Apple as beating a dead horse would have on riding it from point A to point B. I don't think anybody enjoys the bugs, but maybe it's time for Pablo to start a website or Google Plus community or something along these lines with the express purpose of attracting people who feel how he does and where Apple may notice them should enough people sign up. But I guess since he is leaving the iOS platform after his 5S lifetime is over, this will not happen so we're back at running in circles. I am at any rate done with comments regarding this at least until Pablo is back with more of the same when iOS 9 comes out *smile*. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 6:31 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 All this is true, but many iPhone users and many members of this list will point out that the iPhone gives you the best accessibility on a smart phone. I don't think Pablo or anyone else should have to choose between the best accessibility experience on a smart phone and putting up with these bugs in subsequent releases of major versions of IOS. I don't always agree with Pablo, but I think he has every right to complain and be frustrated with IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I'm sure Pablo pays the same for his iPhone as everyone else does. This isn't a cheap device, and I don't think it's too much to expect that it should work as documented. I'm not saying it should be perfect or bug free, but I'm still dealing with a few pretty frustrating bugs over two months after IOS 8 was released. On 11/28/2014 05:27 AM, Larry Smith wrote: > I don’t usually respond to topics like this one. But being a
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Hi, Likewise, if a list member has a problem with what a moderator says on list, it's equally prudent to write said moderator off list. Now all, please let's stop this nonsense. -- Raul A. Gallegos Love is in the air? Wrong. Nitrogen, Oxygen, Argon and Carbon Dioxide are in the air. Bazinga. - Sheldon Cooper Twitter and Facebook user ID: rau47 On 11/30/2014 10:53 AM, gs wrote: If a moderator has a specific problem with the message an individual sends, he or she should notify that individual and not start a general discussion of it on the list. As we see, the outcome is exactly what the moderator claims he was trying to avoid. On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:09 AM, RobH. wrote: Ok, so now we have it taped, only upgrade at least 6 months down the line for any new version. Some only ever do that. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:24 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have been using this iPhone 5s, for the last year. Using 7.1.2 since march of this year. Of course, I had bunches of problems when IOs 7.0 was release. But since march, my phone has been working perfectly until now. Maybe in march 2015, I will get my iPhone working fine again. But will be again, 6 months of problems, and 6 months of good use of my iPhone. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:32 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have not been following your iPhone problems, so please answer one question for me. Did you ever exchange your phone for another unit or is this the same phone which has been giving you problems? - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:50 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. Pablo tired of IOs bugs. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RobH. Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I a
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Adding to this, if the offending person continues to keep sending the offending message over and over again, then he should do something about it. No disrespect to Raul, but this is getting out of hand. And basically now Pablo's biting the hand that feeds him. We as a whole try to help him out and then he turns around and bashes us. Look at the message he posted to Sieghard about "advertising" Apple. And to the person that suggested to use the delete feature, yeah sure, I could do that in some cases, but when my messages are sorted out by thread, I would have to read the entire thread and then delete what I think is offensive to me. If I wanted to do that, I might as well unsubscribe rather than deal with that BS. Shawn Sent From My White MacBook > On Nov 30, 2014, at 10:53 AM, gs wrote: > > If a moderator has a specific problem with the message an individual sends, > he or she should notify that individual and not start a general discussion of > it on the list. As we see, the outcome is exactly what the moderator claims > he was trying to avoid. > > On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:09 AM, RobH. wrote: > > Ok, so now we have it taped, only upgrade at least 6 months down the line > for any new version. > > > Some only ever do that. > - Original Message - > From: "Pablo Morales" > To: > Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:24 AM > Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > > I have been using this iPhone 5s, for the last year. Using 7.1.2 since march > of this year. Of course, I had bunches of problems when IOs 7.0 was release. > But since march, my phone has been working perfectly until now. Maybe in > march 2015, I will get my iPhone working fine again. But will be again, 6 > months of problems, and 6 months of good use of my iPhone. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Gary Petraccaro > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:32 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > I have not been following your iPhone problems, so please answer one > question for me. Did you ever exchange your phone for another unit or is > this the same phone which has been giving you problems? > > - Original Message - > From: "Pablo Morales" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:50 PM > Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > > Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the > list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, > even me. > I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, > regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of > apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we > stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs > 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look > IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the > quality is lower, and lower, and lower. > Why is it happening? > Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs > quality. > A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good > job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't > see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because > there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with > whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. > My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, > then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but > been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. > I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. > Pablo tired of IOs bugs. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of RobH. > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > I think he means, he usually means:- > > if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real > purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a > few falling over them, that at least was useful. > He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented > so far. > > I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying > so. > > Rh. > > -
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Agreed, but the moderator didn't, the recipient of it did. - Original Message - From: "gs" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 4:53 PM Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 If a moderator has a specific problem with the message an individual sends, he or she should notify that individual and not start a general discussion of it on the list. As we see, the outcome is exactly what the moderator claims he was trying to avoid. On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:09 AM, RobH. wrote: Ok, so now we have it taped, only upgrade at least 6 months down the line for any new version. Some only ever do that. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:24 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have been using this iPhone 5s, for the last year. Using 7.1.2 since march of this year. Of course, I had bunches of problems when IOs 7.0 was release. But since march, my phone has been working perfectly until now. Maybe in march 2015, I will get my iPhone working fine again. But will be again, 6 months of problems, and 6 months of good use of my iPhone. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:32 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have not been following your iPhone problems, so please answer one question for me. Did you ever exchange your phone for another unit or is this the same phone which has been giving you problems? - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:50 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. Pablo tired of IOs bugs. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RobH. Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Si
RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Sieghard I can say the same thing about you. You always are defending apple here, you always are trying to minimize the problems or apple bugs, and looks like you are soling iPhones. Yu always has good ways to fix a problem, and sometimes you have good news about something interesting. Because of that , you looks like you are making some money with apple. Even though, I could be wrong. But, I can say that is time to stop making advertisement of apple here. You don't want me talking bad about apple? Ok, easy, accept some times, that the people with bugs has the right to be mad, and go back to your corner, but don't start defending apple like someone who is defending their family. You almost always, when someone is frustrated with the last bugs of apple, you jump to the front, and starting justifying apple, or trying to make the problem to looks, like without importance. It has been happening in the last 3 years. Also Sieghard, you know that I don't have one point, I have several points, and every year I have several points. Or you mean because of I made complain about IOs 6, I have no right to say anything about IOs 8? Why? Are you saying that the bugs that IOs 6 had, were the same that IOs 8 has? If it is what you mean, man, then apple is worse than I thought. So, you don't want to read me making complain about IOs 8? You have 2 choices. One you can give me the money that I paid for my iPhone, or you can just recognize that apple is wrong, and stop justifying apple behavior. Apple is been unfair since Steve Jobs died. This email list is to try about apple accessibility, specifically on iPhones. This list is not to defend or attack any position. My concerns are related with the accessibility. Your position is about what? Thanks Yours truly, Pablo - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 5:47 AM Subject: RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Christopher and others, I agree that Pablo has a point. However, he has made his point dozens of time over the last few years and I think many list members are just getting tired of hearing his rather radical point of view true as it may be. The point is that repeating it on Viphone has about as much effect on Apple as beating a dead horse would have on riding it from point A to point B. I don't think anybody enjoys the bugs, but maybe it's time for Pablo to start a website or Google Plus community or something along these lines with the express purpose of attracting people who feel how he does and where Apple may notice them should enough people sign up. But I guess since he is leaving the iOS platform after his 5S lifetime is over, this will not happen so we're back at running in circles. I am at any rate done with comments regarding this at least until Pablo is back with more of the same when iOS 9 comes out *smile*. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 6:31 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 All this is true, but many iPhone users and many members of this list will point out that the iPhone gives you the best accessibility on a smart phone. I don't think Pablo or anyone else should have to choose between the best accessibility experience on a smart phone and putting up with these bugs in subsequent releases of major versions of IOS. I don't always agree with Pablo, but I think he has every right to complain and be frustrated with IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I'm sure Pablo pays the same for his iPhone as everyone else does. This isn't a cheap device, and I don't think it's too much to expect that it should work as documented. I'm not saying it should be perfect or bug free, but I'm still dealing with a few pretty frustrating bugs over two months after IOS 8 was released. On 11/28/2014 05:27 AM, Larry Smith wrote: > I don’t usually respond to topics like this one. But being a member of > this list, it’s becoming a bit annoying. Pablo, you stated that you left > your home country because of the lack of freedom. So why not leave apple > for some other platform if you believe so strongly that apple has no real > concern for accessibility. In this country, you have that freedom. Some of > your IOS problem appears to be human error. For example, you can’t > convince me that the triple click of the home button gets you in to the > app switcher. Unless because of all of your negative complaining apple has > decided to target your phone exclusively! Smiles, lighten up man! It can’t > be that bad can it? You are still here, still using apple products smiles > and still exercising your freedom to point out
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
If a moderator has a specific problem with the message an individual sends, he or she should notify that individual and not start a general discussion of it on the list. As we see, the outcome is exactly what the moderator claims he was trying to avoid. On Nov 30, 2014, at 4:09 AM, RobH. wrote: Ok, so now we have it taped, only upgrade at least 6 months down the line for any new version. Some only ever do that. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:24 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have been using this iPhone 5s, for the last year. Using 7.1.2 since march of this year. Of course, I had bunches of problems when IOs 7.0 was release. But since march, my phone has been working perfectly until now. Maybe in march 2015, I will get my iPhone working fine again. But will be again, 6 months of problems, and 6 months of good use of my iPhone. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:32 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have not been following your iPhone problems, so please answer one question for me. Did you ever exchange your phone for another unit or is this the same phone which has been giving you problems? - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:50 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. Pablo tired of IOs bugs. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RobH. Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same vers
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I for one have no patience for someone who does nothing but complain, and never does anything to fix it. I got to the point where I hated windows, and was tired of Jaws. I didn’t go on lists and rant; I switched to mac, end of story. Alia > On Nov 30, 2014, at 12:47 AM, Sieghard Weitzel wrote: > > Christopher and others, > > I agree that Pablo has a point. However, he has made his point dozens of time > over the last few years and I think many list members are just getting tired > of hearing his rather radical point of view true as it may be. The point is > that repeating it on Viphone has about as much effect on Apple as beating a > dead horse would have on riding it from point A to point B -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
as people usually say on these lists. You always can use your delete key! - Original Message - From: "Sieghard Weitzel" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 5:47 AM Subject: RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Christopher and others, I agree that Pablo has a point. However, he has made his point dozens of time over the last few years and I think many list members are just getting tired of hearing his rather radical point of view true as it may be. The point is that repeating it on Viphone has about as much effect on Apple as beating a dead horse would have on riding it from point A to point B. I don't think anybody enjoys the bugs, but maybe it's time for Pablo to start a website or Google Plus community or something along these lines with the express purpose of attracting people who feel how he does and where Apple may notice them should enough people sign up. But I guess since he is leaving the iOS platform after his 5S lifetime is over, this will not happen so we're back at running in circles. I am at any rate done with comments regarding this at least until Pablo is back with more of the same when iOS 9 comes out *smile*. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 6:31 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 All this is true, but many iPhone users and many members of this list will point out that the iPhone gives you the best accessibility on a smart phone. I don't think Pablo or anyone else should have to choose between the best accessibility experience on a smart phone and putting up with these bugs in subsequent releases of major versions of IOS. I don't always agree with Pablo, but I think he has every right to complain and be frustrated with IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I'm sure Pablo pays the same for his iPhone as everyone else does. This isn't a cheap device, and I don't think it's too much to expect that it should work as documented. I'm not saying it should be perfect or bug free, but I'm still dealing with a few pretty frustrating bugs over two months after IOS 8 was released. On 11/28/2014 05:27 AM, Larry Smith wrote: I don’t usually respond to topics like this one. But being a member of this list, it’s becoming a bit annoying. Pablo, you stated that you left your home country because of the lack of freedom. So why not leave apple for some other platform if you believe so strongly that apple has no real concern for accessibility. In this country, you have that freedom. Some of your IOS problem appears to be human error. For example, you can’t convince me that the triple click of the home button gets you in to the app switcher. Unless because of all of your negative complaining apple has decided to target your phone exclusively! Smiles, lighten up man! It can’t be that bad can it? You are still here, still using apple products smiles and still exercising your freedom to point out to everyone listening everything negative with apple IOS software. Smiles, ok, I’m done exercising my rights to comment about you exercising your rights to complain about appple IOS!On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:42 PM , Christopher Chaltain wrote: I see. IOS 8.1.1 is the fourth release of the IOS 8 firmware. It's been out for more than 2 months, more than 1/6 or 16% of it's life expectancy. How long do people have to wait before upgrading and being able to take advantage of the new features without being portrayed as pioneers? We're not talking about beta testers. If I recall, it wasn't until late January or sometime in February before I moved up to a version of IOS 7 that squashed the most annoying bugs I had with IOS 7. On 11/27/2014 05:47 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to get bugs. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. Microsoft also suppor
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I have to agree as well. Case in point: I was trying to tune into a football game on Direct TV for my wife so she would miss as little of her game as possible. I looked for the game, and found a likely channel. What sounded like the game I wanted came on and then the audio blanked. When my wife got back to the tv, she said that there was a notice about a search feature of some kind. There was no sound at all. When I tried turning the receiver off and on, same thing. I immediately called the 800 number for Direct TV and she and I spoke with them to make the point about this being a decidedly less than successful way of dealing with the situation. Btw, the notice said to turn to the wrong channel (snicker>. I doubt that any changes will be made, but not registering the point would have been counterproductive. Same with Apple Accessibility. These people are here, talk to them. The people on this list can be helpful, but, if no help is forthcoming or no solution, then bug Apple. They can't respond to a problem unless they know about it. - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 9:31 PM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 All this is true, but many iPhone users and many members of this list will point out that the iPhone gives you the best accessibility on a smart phone. I don't think Pablo or anyone else should have to choose between the best accessibility experience on a smart phone and putting up with these bugs in subsequent releases of major versions of IOS. I don't always agree with Pablo, but I think he has every right to complain and be frustrated with IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I'm sure Pablo pays the same for his iPhone as everyone else does. This isn't a cheap device, and I don't think it's too much to expect that it should work as documented. I'm not saying it should be perfect or bug free, but I'm still dealing with a few pretty frustrating bugs over two months after IOS 8 was released. On 11/28/2014 05:27 AM, Larry Smith wrote: I don’t usually respond to topics like this one. But being a member of this list, it’s becoming a bit annoying. Pablo, you stated that you left your home country because of the lack of freedom. So why not leave apple for some other platform if you believe so strongly that apple has no real concern for accessibility. In this country, you have that freedom. Some of your IOS problem appears to be human error. For example, you can’t convince me that the triple click of the home button gets you in to the app switcher. Unless because of all of your negative complaining apple has decided to target your phone exclusively! Smiles, lighten up man! It can’t be that bad can it? You are still here, still using apple products smiles and still exercising your freedom to point out to everyone listening everything negative with apple IOS software. Smiles, ok, I’m done exercising my rights to comment about you exercising your rights to complain about appple IOS!On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:42 PM , Christopher Chaltain wrote: I see. IOS 8.1.1 is the fourth release of the IOS 8 firmware. It's been out for more than 2 months, more than 1/6 or 16% of it's life expectancy. How long do people have to wait before upgrading and being able to take advantage of the new features without being portrayed as pioneers? We're not talking about beta testers. If I recall, it wasn't until late January or sometime in February before I moved up to a version of IOS 7 that squashed the most annoying bugs I had with IOS 7. On 11/27/2014 05:47 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to get bugs. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen reading solution. I don't think one application
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I totaly agree! this list should be for everyone to say what bugs they are encountering, and not just for the apple but kissers. - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:31 AM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 All this is true, but many iPhone users and many members of this list will point out that the iPhone gives you the best accessibility on a smart phone. I don't think Pablo or anyone else should have to choose between the best accessibility experience on a smart phone and putting up with these bugs in subsequent releases of major versions of IOS. I don't always agree with Pablo, but I think he has every right to complain and be frustrated with IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I'm sure Pablo pays the same for his iPhone as everyone else does. This isn't a cheap device, and I don't think it's too much to expect that it should work as documented. I'm not saying it should be perfect or bug free, but I'm still dealing with a few pretty frustrating bugs over two months after IOS 8 was released. On 11/28/2014 05:27 AM, Larry Smith wrote: I don’t usually respond to topics like this one. But being a member of this list, it’s becoming a bit annoying. Pablo, you stated that you left your home country because of the lack of freedom. So why not leave apple for some other platform if you believe so strongly that apple has no real concern for accessibility. In this country, you have that freedom. Some of your IOS problem appears to be human error. For example, you can’t convince me that the triple click of the home button gets you in to the app switcher. Unless because of all of your negative complaining apple has decided to target your phone exclusively! Smiles, lighten up man! It can’t be that bad can it? You are still here, still using apple products smiles and still exercising your freedom to point out to everyone listening everything negative with apple IOS software. Smiles, ok, I’m done exercising my rights to comment about you exercising your rights to complain about appple IOS!On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:42 PM , Christopher Chaltain wrote: I see. IOS 8.1.1 is the fourth release of the IOS 8 firmware. It's been out for more than 2 months, more than 1/6 or 16% of it's life expectancy. How long do people have to wait before upgrading and being able to take advantage of the new features without being portrayed as pioneers? We're not talking about beta testers. If I recall, it wasn't until late January or sometime in February before I moved up to a version of IOS 7 that squashed the most annoying bugs I had with IOS 7. On 11/27/2014 05:47 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to get bugs. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should define the entire Windows ecosystem. I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility, they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they can invest a bit less in accessib
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Ok, so now we have it taped, only upgrade at least 6 months down the line for any new version. Some only ever do that. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2014 2:24 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have been using this iPhone 5s, for the last year. Using 7.1.2 since march of this year. Of course, I had bunches of problems when IOs 7.0 was release. But since march, my phone has been working perfectly until now. Maybe in march 2015, I will get my iPhone working fine again. But will be again, 6 months of problems, and 6 months of good use of my iPhone. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:32 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have not been following your iPhone problems, so please answer one question for me. Did you ever exchange your phone for another unit or is this the same phone which has been giving you problems? - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:50 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. Pablo tired of IOs bugs. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RobH. Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everyt
RE: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Christopher and others, I agree that Pablo has a point. However, he has made his point dozens of time over the last few years and I think many list members are just getting tired of hearing his rather radical point of view true as it may be. The point is that repeating it on Viphone has about as much effect on Apple as beating a dead horse would have on riding it from point A to point B. I don't think anybody enjoys the bugs, but maybe it's time for Pablo to start a website or Google Plus community or something along these lines with the express purpose of attracting people who feel how he does and where Apple may notice them should enough people sign up. But I guess since he is leaving the iOS platform after his 5S lifetime is over, this will not happen so we're back at running in circles. I am at any rate done with comments regarding this at least until Pablo is back with more of the same when iOS 9 comes out *smile*. Regards, Sieghard -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Saturday, November 29, 2014 6:31 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 All this is true, but many iPhone users and many members of this list will point out that the iPhone gives you the best accessibility on a smart phone. I don't think Pablo or anyone else should have to choose between the best accessibility experience on a smart phone and putting up with these bugs in subsequent releases of major versions of IOS. I don't always agree with Pablo, but I think he has every right to complain and be frustrated with IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I'm sure Pablo pays the same for his iPhone as everyone else does. This isn't a cheap device, and I don't think it's too much to expect that it should work as documented. I'm not saying it should be perfect or bug free, but I'm still dealing with a few pretty frustrating bugs over two months after IOS 8 was released. On 11/28/2014 05:27 AM, Larry Smith wrote: > I don’t usually respond to topics like this one. But being a member of this > list, it’s becoming a bit annoying. Pablo, you stated that you left your home > country because of the lack of freedom. So why not leave apple for some other > platform if you believe so strongly that apple has no real concern for > accessibility. In this country, you have that freedom. Some of your IOS > problem appears to be human error. For example, you can’t convince me that > the triple click of the home button gets you in to the app switcher. Unless > because of all of your negative complaining apple has decided to target your > phone exclusively! Smiles, lighten up man! It can’t be that bad can it? You > are still here, still using apple products smiles and still exercising your > freedom to point out to everyone listening everything negative with apple IOS > software. Smiles, ok, I’m done exercising my rights to comment about you > exercising your rights to complain about appple IOS!On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:42 > PM , Christopher Chaltain wrote: >> >> I see. IOS 8.1.1 is the fourth release of the IOS 8 firmware. It's been out >> for more than 2 months, more than 1/6 or 16% of it's life expectancy. How >> long do people have to wait before upgrading and being able to take >> advantage of the new features without being portrayed as pioneers? We're not >> talking about beta testers. If I recall, it wasn't until late January or >> sometime in February before I moved up to a version of IOS 7 that squashed >> the most annoying bugs I had with IOS 7. >> >> On 11/27/2014 05:47 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: >>> The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to >>> immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to >>> get bugs. >>> >>> --- >>> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're >>> finished, you! really! are! finished! >>> - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM >>> Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting >>> with IOs 8.1.1 >>> >>> >>> I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple >>> products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM >>> and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. >>> >>> I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other >>> technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my >>
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
All this is true, but many iPhone users and many members of this list will point out that the iPhone gives you the best accessibility on a smart phone. I don't think Pablo or anyone else should have to choose between the best accessibility experience on a smart phone and putting up with these bugs in subsequent releases of major versions of IOS. I don't always agree with Pablo, but I think he has every right to complain and be frustrated with IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I'm sure Pablo pays the same for his iPhone as everyone else does. This isn't a cheap device, and I don't think it's too much to expect that it should work as documented. I'm not saying it should be perfect or bug free, but I'm still dealing with a few pretty frustrating bugs over two months after IOS 8 was released. On 11/28/2014 05:27 AM, Larry Smith wrote: I don’t usually respond to topics like this one. But being a member of this list, it’s becoming a bit annoying. Pablo, you stated that you left your home country because of the lack of freedom. So why not leave apple for some other platform if you believe so strongly that apple has no real concern for accessibility. In this country, you have that freedom. Some of your IOS problem appears to be human error. For example, you can’t convince me that the triple click of the home button gets you in to the app switcher. Unless because of all of your negative complaining apple has decided to target your phone exclusively! Smiles, lighten up man! It can’t be that bad can it? You are still here, still using apple products smiles and still exercising your freedom to point out to everyone listening everything negative with apple IOS software. Smiles, ok, I’m done exercising my rights to comment about you exercising your rights to complain about appple IOS!On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:42 PM , Christopher Chaltain wrote: I see. IOS 8.1.1 is the fourth release of the IOS 8 firmware. It's been out for more than 2 months, more than 1/6 or 16% of it's life expectancy. How long do people have to wait before upgrading and being able to take advantage of the new features without being portrayed as pioneers? We're not talking about beta testers. If I recall, it wasn't until late January or sometime in February before I moved up to a version of IOS 7 that squashed the most annoying bugs I had with IOS 7. On 11/27/2014 05:47 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to get bugs. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should define the entire Windows ecosystem. I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility, they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on accessibility. On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote: Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first to encounter arrows! That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspo
RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I have been using this iPhone 5s, for the last year. Using 7.1.2 since march of this year. Of course, I had bunches of problems when IOs 7.0 was release. But since march, my phone has been working perfectly until now. Maybe in march 2015, I will get my iPhone working fine again. But will be again, 6 months of problems, and 6 months of good use of my iPhone. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary Petraccaro Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 9:32 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I have not been following your iPhone problems, so please answer one question for me. Did you ever exchange your phone for another unit or is this the same phone which has been giving you problems? - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:50 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. Pablo tired of IOs bugs. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RobH. Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my count
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Staying with the topic here: are the Moderators not concerned with all these messages repeating the same thing aimed at flaming Pablo? >From a longterm subscriber concerned for the health of the list. Sandy Sent from my iPhone > On 27 Nov 2014, at 23:43, Charles Rivard wrote: > > Wouldn't it be better for you to continually voice your opinions to Apple > rather than to this list? Why not cut out any "middle men", and convey your > thoughts directly to the source? > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, > you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:50 PM > Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > > Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the > list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, > even me. > I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, > regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of > apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay > quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it > had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, > the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality > is lower, and lower, and lower. > Why is it happening? > Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. > A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, > because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see > this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there > were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple > is doing, always they will decrease the quality. > My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, > then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but > been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. > I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. > Pablo tired of IOs bugs. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > RobH. > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > I think he means, he usually means:- > > if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real > purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a > few falling over them, that at least was useful. > He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented > so far. > > I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying > so. > > Rh. > > - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM > Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > > Hi Raul. > In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the > messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. > Are you owner of apple? > No, right? > Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the > accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email > list. What is your problem? > That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? > No, it is not great, and you know that. > That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not > allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not > fair, is not good? > Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. > That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, > and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people > saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like > he works with this matter, and has knowledge. > What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that > I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs > 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? > This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is > happy with apple? > No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about > accessibility in apple devices, right? > Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. > You remin
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I don’t usually respond to topics like this one. But being a member of this list, it’s becoming a bit annoying. Pablo, you stated that you left your home country because of the lack of freedom. So why not leave apple for some other platform if you believe so strongly that apple has no real concern for accessibility. In this country, you have that freedom. Some of your IOS problem appears to be human error. For example, you can’t convince me that the triple click of the home button gets you in to the app switcher. Unless because of all of your negative complaining apple has decided to target your phone exclusively! Smiles, lighten up man! It can’t be that bad can it? You are still here, still using apple products smiles and still exercising your freedom to point out to everyone listening everything negative with apple IOS software. Smiles, ok, I’m done exercising my rights to comment about you exercising your rights to complain about appple IOS!On Nov 27, 2014, at 7:42 PM, Christopher Chaltain wrote: > > I see. IOS 8.1.1 is the fourth release of the IOS 8 firmware. It's been out > for more than 2 months, more than 1/6 or 16% of it's life expectancy. How > long do people have to wait before upgrading and being able to take advantage > of the new features without being portrayed as pioneers? We're not talking > about beta testers. If I recall, it wasn't until late January or sometime in > February before I moved up to a version of IOS 7 that squashed the most > annoying bugs I had with IOS 7. > > On 11/27/2014 05:47 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: >> The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to >> immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to >> get bugs. >> >> --- >> Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're >> finished, you! really! are! finished! >> - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" >> >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM >> Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting >> with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> >> I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple >> products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM >> and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. >> >> I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other >> technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my >> house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS >> supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. >> Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of >> another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my >> PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen >> reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should >> define the entire Windows ecosystem. >> >> I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to >> IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but >> iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a >> sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to >> upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a >> supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the >> top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs >> to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as >> more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development >> and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration >> needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility, >> they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they >> can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community >> is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on >> accessibility. >> >> On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote: >>> Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first >>> to encounter arrows! >>> >>> That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on >>> other lists of course)! >>> >>> Holland's Boy, Bill >>> - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off >>> their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." >>> - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) >>> - Original Message - From: &qu
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Plus, you can put Linux on that PC. And there's K1000 and GWMicro. - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:10 PM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should define the entire Windows ecosystem. I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility, they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on accessibility. On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote: Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first to encounter arrows! That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on other lists of course)! Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows. Always, when a new operating system is introduced, keep this in mind. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to see iOS 40.???! The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution. That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right." I intend to buy a Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about protecting their customers' investments. Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anythi
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I have not been following your iPhone problems, so please answer one question for me. Did you ever exchange your phone for another unit or is this the same phone which has been giving you problems? - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:50 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. Pablo tired of IOs bugs. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RobH. Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.co
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Why did you have to restore your iPhone? I'm just curious. Thanks, Ari > On Nov 27, 2014, at 4:17 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: > > You could have continued using 7.1.2. Once you upgraded from that, though, > beyond a certain time, you could not downgrade. Instructions on how to > downgrade, when it was still possible to do so, were given on this list. I > know. I saw them. Not doing so during the grace period was your fault, not > Apple's. Upgrading when you knew about the bugs was also your fault, not > Apple's. Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to upgrade. You did > it knowing the risks. Now, start living with your decision and stop sending > your complaints to us, please? > > --- > Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, > you! really! are! finished! > - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:09 PM > Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > > No Kelly. You are wrong. > I had to update my iPhone. You know why? > Because the dictator apple, doesn't allow me to restore my iPhone, with the > IOs 7.1.2 that I have stored in my computer. I couldn't restore my iPhone > when I was using IOs 7.1.2, because ... guess. Apple doesn't allow to do it. > After I discovered that, and after I sent many emails to apple, > accessibility. I asked here about IOs 8.1.1, and one of the more trustable > source here, said. IOs 8.1.1 has still bugs, even though I think it is great. > So, I didn't have choices, or update, or use a phone who was getting to much > problems. Because of that I needed to restore my iPhone. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Kelly Pierce > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:34 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Pablo, > > In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western > world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have > corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to > revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS > version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put > out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover > users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on > the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources. Both reviews strongly > recommended that people wait until another version to receive better > performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both > stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved. > Despite all of this you upgraded anyway. > > The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility. At this point, > you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to > learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple > is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are. > > Kelly > > > > >> On 11/27/14, Kerri G wrote: >> And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will >> happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you >> cry foul too many times. >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote: >>> >>> Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your >>> negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list. >>> You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a >>> damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major >>> release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've >>> said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about >>> that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I >>> can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8 >>> is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing >>> Apple will never get us anywhere. >>> >>> Shawn >>> Sent From My White MacBook >>> >>>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for >>>> the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help >>>> everybody, even me. >>>> I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the lis
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I see. IOS 8.1.1 is the fourth release of the IOS 8 firmware. It's been out for more than 2 months, more than 1/6 or 16% of it's life expectancy. How long do people have to wait before upgrading and being able to take advantage of the new features without being portrayed as pioneers? We're not talking about beta testers. If I recall, it wasn't until late January or sometime in February before I moved up to a version of IOS 7 that squashed the most annoying bugs I had with IOS 7. On 11/27/2014 05:47 PM, Charles Rivard wrote: The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to get bugs. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should define the entire Windows ecosystem. I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility, they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on accessibility. On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote: Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first to encounter arrows! That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on other lists of course)! Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message ----- From: "Charles Rivard" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows. Always, when a new operating system is introduced, keep this in mind. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! ----- Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to see iOS 40.???! The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution. That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
You could have continued using 7.1.2. Once you upgraded from that, though, beyond a certain time, you could not downgrade. Instructions on how to downgrade, when it was still possible to do so, were given on this list. I know. I saw them. Not doing so during the grace period was your fault, not Apple's. Upgrading when you knew about the bugs was also your fault, not Apple's. Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to upgrade. You did it knowing the risks. Now, start living with your decision and stop sending your complaints to us, please? --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:09 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 No Kelly. You are wrong. I had to update my iPhone. You know why? Because the dictator apple, doesn't allow me to restore my iPhone, with the IOs 7.1.2 that I have stored in my computer. I couldn't restore my iPhone when I was using IOs 7.1.2, because ... guess. Apple doesn't allow to do it. After I discovered that, and after I sent many emails to apple, accessibility. I asked here about IOs 8.1.1, and one of the more trustable source here, said. IOs 8.1.1 has still bugs, even though I think it is great. So, I didn't have choices, or update, or use a phone who was getting to much problems. Because of that I needed to restore my iPhone. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Pierce Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:34 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pablo, In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources. Both reviews strongly recommended that people wait until another version to receive better performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved. Despite all of this you upgraded anyway. The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility. At this point, you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are. Kelly On 11/27/14, Kerri G wrote: And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you cry foul too many times. On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote: Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list. You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8 is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing Apple will never get us anywhere. Shawn Sent From My White MacBook On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales wrote: Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy
RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
No Kelly. You are wrong. I had to update my iPhone. You know why? Because the dictator apple, doesn't allow me to restore my iPhone, with the IOs 7.1.2 that I have stored in my computer. I couldn't restore my iPhone when I was using IOs 7.1.2, because ... guess. Apple doesn't allow to do it. After I discovered that, and after I sent many emails to apple, accessibility. I asked here about IOs 8.1.1, and one of the more trustable source here, said. IOs 8.1.1 has still bugs, even though I think it is great. So, I didn't have choices, or update, or use a phone who was getting to much problems. Because of that I needed to restore my iPhone. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kelly Pierce Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:34 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pablo, In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources. Both reviews strongly recommended that people wait until another version to receive better performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved. Despite all of this you upgraded anyway. The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility. At this point, you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are. Kelly On 11/27/14, Kerri G wrote: > And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will > happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you > cry foul too many times. >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote: >> >> Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your >> negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list. >> You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a >> damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major >> release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've >> said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about >> that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I >> can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8 >> is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing >> Apple will never get us anywhere. >> >> Shawn >> Sent From My White MacBook >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales >>> wrote: >>> >>> Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for >>> the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help >>> everybody, even me. >>> I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, >>> regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers >>> of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If >>> we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember >>> IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, >>> and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like >>> every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. >>> Why is it happening? >>> Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs >>> quality. >>> A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good >>> job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I >>> don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is >>> because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy >>> with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. >>> My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of >>> noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their >>> customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to >>> improve anything. >>> I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive >>> messages.
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
The reference to being a pioneer is regarding those that chose to immediately install newly available firmware, risking being the first to get bugs. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Christopher Chaltain" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 12:10 PM Subject: Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should define the entire Windows ecosystem. I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility, they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on accessibility. On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote: Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first to encounter arrows! That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on other lists of course)! Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows. Always, when a new operating system is introduced, keep this in mind. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to see iOS 40.???! The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution. That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right." I intend to buy a Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about protecting their customers' investments. Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Wouldn't it be better for you to continually voice your opinions to Apple rather than to this list? Why not cut out any "middle men", and convey your thoughts directly to the source? --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 1:50 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. Pablo tired of IOs bugs. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RobH. Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Pablo, In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources. Both reviews strongly recommended that people wait until another version to receive better performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved. Despite all of this you upgraded anyway. The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility. At this point, you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are. Kelly On 11/27/14, Kerri G wrote: > And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will > happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you > cry foul too many times. >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote: >> >> Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your >> negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list. >> You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a >> damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major >> release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've >> said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about >> that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I >> can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8 >> is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing >> Apple will never get us anywhere. >> >> Shawn >> Sent From My White MacBook >> >>> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales >>> wrote: >>> >>> Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for >>> the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help >>> everybody, even me. >>> I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, >>> regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers >>> of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If >>> we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember >>> IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, >>> and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like >>> every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. >>> Why is it happening? >>> Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs >>> quality. >>> A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good >>> job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I >>> don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is >>> because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy >>> with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. >>> My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of >>> noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their >>> customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to >>> improve anything. >>> I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive >>> messages. >>> Pablo tired of IOs bugs. >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On >>> Behalf Of RobH. >>> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM >>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>> Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >>> >>> I think he means, he usually means:- >>> >>> if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no >>> real >>> purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save >>> a >>> few falling over them, that at least was useful. >>> He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge >>> presented >>> so far. >>> >>> I think that about summarises it, hope I d
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you cry foul too many times. > On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk wrote: > > Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your negative > messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list. You've been > saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a damn about us and > that they're breaking accessibility with every major release. And just like > Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've said it before and I'll say > it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about that. But honestly, the cool > new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I can say for most people that > Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8 is enjoyable. Can they improve? > Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing Apple will never get us anywhere. > > Shawn > Sent From My White MacBook > >> On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales wrote: >> >> Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the >> list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, >> even me. >> I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, >> regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of >> apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we >> stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs >> 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look >> IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the >> quality is lower, and lower, and lower. >> Why is it happening? >> Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. >> A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good >> job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't >> see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because >> there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with >> whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. >> My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, >> then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but >> been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. >> I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. >> Pablo tired of IOs bugs. >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf >> Of RobH. >> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM >> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> I think he means, he usually means:- >> >> if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real >> purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a >> few falling over them, that at least was useful. >> He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented >> so far. >> >> I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying >> so. >> >> Rh. >> >> - Original Message - >> From: "Pablo Morales" >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM >> Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> >> Hi Raul. >> In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the >> messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. >> Are you owner of apple? >> No, right? >> Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the >> accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email >> list. What is your problem? >> That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? >> No, it is not great, and you know that. >> That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not >> allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not >> fair, is not good? >> Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. >> That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, >> and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people >> saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that loo
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list. You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubt about that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8 is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing Apple will never get us anywhere. Shawn Sent From My White MacBook > On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales wrote: > > Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the > list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, > even me. > I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, > regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of > apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay > quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it > had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, > the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality > is lower, and lower, and lower. > Why is it happening? > Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. > A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, > because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see > this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there > were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple > is doing, always they will decrease the quality. > My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, > then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but > been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. > I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. > Pablo tired of IOs bugs. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > RobH. > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > I think he means, he usually means:- > > if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real > purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a > few falling over them, that at least was useful. > He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented > so far. > > I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying > so. > > Rh. > > - Original Message - > From: "Pablo Morales" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM > Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > > Hi Raul. > In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the > messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. > Are you owner of apple? > No, right? > Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the > accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email > list. What is your problem? > That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? > No, it is not great, and you know that. > That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not > allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not > fair, is not good? > Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. > That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, > and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people > saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like > he works with this matter, and has knowledge. > What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that > I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs > 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? > This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is > happy with apple? > No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about > accessibility in apple devices, right? > Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. > You
RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help everybody, even me. I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to the list, regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we are customers of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do you Remember IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6, and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower. Why is it happening? Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs quality. A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality. My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to improve anything. I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive messages. Pablo tired of IOs bugs. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of RobH. Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this ke
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I actually don't think Apple is wrong for downloading updates ahead of time and dropping support for older releases. There are good reasons to do this, and they're related to Apple's model of having the best customer experience and great customer support. I think this is all related to why people buy into the Apple experience. I do think Apple should be taken to task for not addressing more of these bugs before releasing the software though. I think customers have a right to be frustrated. Apple also doesn't have to postpone their release schedule or scale back their feature set to address more bugs before release. They'd have to do something, it could be one or the other or maybe just putting more money and resources into the release, but they don't have to do both. On 11/27/2014 12:27 PM, Sandratomkins wrote: Hi, I should like to add my voice to that of Pablo.I too felt somewhat pushed to update my for S.The unwanted update had been downloaded to my phone against my desires and was sitting using up the last bit of available space there.I could, of course, have deleted it, but it would've downloaded again!add to this the fact that I have severely restricted bandwidth and have no desire to download gigs of up dates dthat I don't want.I certainly don't want and cannot have this occurring on a repeated basis.Apple is in the wrong here.we should be able to downgrade if we find it necessary and we should be able to tick a box which says we will only download an update manually.for these reasons I would argue that Pablo has been completely correct throughout with regard to these policies re updating. As far as moderation is concerned:I would have thought, given the blurb at the bottom of every email, that it would be better had you spent your time discouraging people from entering into a feeding frenzy of insulting remarks aimed at people who are discontented with the service Apple is in many ways foisting upon us.instead, I see you have joined in… Sandy Sent from my iPhone On 27 Nov 2014, at 14:19, Pablo Morales wrote: Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 in
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Hi, I should like to add my voice to that of Pablo.I too felt somewhat pushed to update my for S.The unwanted update had been downloaded to my phone against my desires and was sitting using up the last bit of available space there.I could, of course, have deleted it, but it would've downloaded again!add to this the fact that I have severely restricted bandwidth and have no desire to download gigs of up dates dthat I don't want.I certainly don't want and cannot have this occurring on a repeated basis.Apple is in the wrong here.we should be able to downgrade if we find it necessary and we should be able to tick a box which says we will only download an update manually.for these reasons I would argue that Pablo has been completely correct throughout with regard to these policies re updating. As far as moderation is concerned:I would have thought, given the blurb at the bottom of every email, that it would be better had you spent your time discouraging people from entering into a feeding frenzy of insulting remarks aimed at people who are discontented with the service Apple is in many ways foisting upon us.instead, I see you have joined in… Sandy Sent from my iPhone > On 27 Nov 2014, at 14:19, Pablo Morales wrote: > > Hi Raul. > In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the > messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. > Are you owner of apple? > No, right? > Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the > accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email > list. What is your problem? > That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? > No, it is not great, and you know that. > That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not > allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not > fair, is not good? > Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. > That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and > after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying > that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he > works with this matter, and has knowledge. > What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that > I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs > 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? > This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is > happy with apple? > No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about > accessibility in apple devices, right? > Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. > You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, > talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose > your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of > that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. > Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. > I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I > got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and > also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the > Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or > any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. > And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Raul A. Gallegos > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly > thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. > > > >> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: >> >> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't >> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2 >> is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, >> liking or doesn't liking, I have to. >> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of >> treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind >> of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous >> mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. a >> Again, it was my last apple dev
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Bill, congratulations on your (soon to be) Mac! If you need help with it, there are a couple email lists, and www.applevis.com <http://www.applevis.com/> has a page with content for those new to the Mac. Everyone else: I believe what Raul was saying is that, with every update, bugs happen. This list, AppleVis, and other resources exist so users can know what bugs to expect before they upgrade, and can decide whether or not to proceed. In the case of Pablo, I think Raul was saying that the same thing happens every year: he decries Apple for their lack of accessibility support, says that he'd like to switch to Android, then upgrades his iOS version and says the same things over again. Of course, this list is for people to get help and share knowledge, but messages simply stating that Apple isn't doing enough and isn't worth the poster's money don't contribute to that knowledge or support. As to accessibility bugs, yes, they exist, I'm not saying they don't. Yes, it's usually best to wait for the x.1 version of a major new release. However, to think that accessibility is the only area affected is simply wrong. Many mainstream publications have been saying that there are more bugs in iOS8 than in any previous release, and these are bugs affecting the sighted world. Apple is even getting hit with a class action lawsuit over its refusal to fix certain MacBook Pros that all show the same kind of video card problems. My point is that a fast upgrade cycle, like what Apple has in place, is great for business and for pushing forward, but bugs get missed for sighted and blind users alike. Saying that Apple isn't committed to accessibility by pointing to iOS8's bugs is like saying that Apple doesn't care about wifi users by pointing to the ongoing wifi problems in iOS8. It is also to ignore the braille input system, direct touch typing, Alex voice, Hebrew braille support, expanded braille options, totally overhauled Zoom, fully accessible new mainstream features, and all the other work that went into iOS8's accessibility. > On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:07 PM, Bill Gallik wrote: > > I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might > be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming > until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to > see iOS 40.???! > > The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been > quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) > take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I > would advise all here to exercise such caution. > > That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing > technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to > maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that > seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am > referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to > retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the > accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo > I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right." I intend to buy a > Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific > because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about > protecting their customers' investments. > > Holland's Boy, Bill > - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their > guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." > - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) > - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" > To: > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM > Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > > Hi Raul. > In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the > messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. > Are you owner of apple? > No, right? > Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the > accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email > list. What is your problem? > That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? > No, it is not great, and you know that. > That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not > allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not > fair, is not good? > Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. > That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and > after read email
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I don't get the pioneers reference. I don't see people moving to Apple products as being pioneers. Apple has been making PC's longer than IBM and Apple created the smart phone market in the US. I also don't understand the discussion about Windows and other technologies not protecting a user's investment. Every PC I have in my house is older than my iPhone 4S, and they'll still be running an OS supported by Microsoft long after Apple stops supporting my 4S. Microsoft also supported Windows XP for over ten years. I can't think of another company who's supported an OS for nearly that long. BTW, my PC's, when they're running Windows, are using NVDA for their screen reading solution. I don't think one applications upgrade model should define the entire Windows ecosystem. I myself have also been frustrated with Apple and both the updates to IOS 7 and now IOS 8. I think Apple will eventually make it right,but iPhones aren't cheap, and I don't think I should have to settle for a sub par experience for a few months every year just because I choose to upgrade my operating system to take advantage of new features on a supported device. I think some of the criticism of Apple is over the top, but I also think for things to improve in the future, Apple needs to hear some frustration from the blindness community. I see myself as more conciliatory, but I know from my experience in product development and my association with accessibility professionals is that frustration needs to be heard. Regardless of Apple's commitment to accessibility, they are a company looking at the bottom line, and if they think they can invest a bit less in accessibility because the blindness community is happy with whatever we get then they will be tempted to spend less on accessibility. On 11/27/2014 11:22 AM, Bill Gallik wrote: Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first to encounter arrows! That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on other lists of course)! Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows. Always, when a new operating system is introduced, keep this in mind. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message ----- From: "Bill Gallik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to see iOS 40.???! The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution. That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right." I intend to buy a Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about protecting their customers' investments. Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybod
Re: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Ha ha ha! Very well put Charles, pioneers are indeed usually the first to encounter arrows! That is funny -- methinks I'll save this for future correspondence (on other lists of course)! Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "Charles Rivard" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:15 AM Subject: to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows. Always, when a new operating system is introduced, keep this in mind. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to see iOS 40.???! The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution. That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right." I intend to buy a Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about protecting their customers' investments. Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message ----- From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. And by the way, you didn't do
to update or not - Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Pioneers are usually the first to encounter arrows. Always, when a new operating system is introduced, keep this in mind. --- Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished, you! really! are! finished! - Original Message - From: "Bill Gallik" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:07 AM Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to see iOS 40.???! The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution. That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right." I intend to buy a Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about protecting their customers' investments. Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 instal
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to see iOS 40.???! The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I would advise all here to exercise such caution. That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right." I intend to buy a Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about protecting their customers' investments. Holland's Boy, Bill - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2 is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, liking or doesn't liking, I have to. But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
I think he means, he usually means:- if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no real purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs to save a few falling over them, that at least was useful. He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge presented so far. I think that about summarises it, hope I don't go getting flack for saying so. Rh. - Original Message - From: "Pablo Morales" To: Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. > On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales > wrote: > > Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't > restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 installed in my phone, because IOs8 > 7.1.2 is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install > IOs 8, liking or doesn't liking, I have to. > But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of > treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind > of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous > mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. > a Again, it was my last apple device. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Sieghard Weitzel > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:44 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Then you should have stayed with iOS 7.1.2, the issues with bluetooth > keyboards and braille displays have been well documented. And in case you > wonder, no, you can't go back to iOS 7.1.2 any more. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of Pablo Morales > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:52 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Hi Sieghard. > Well, I have been using Bluetooth keyboard since my first iphone 4, years > ago. The problem is that if I am using the Bluetooth keyboard, some times > the keyboard stop respondin
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
yes many many people have had problems with the update of ios. so what if the keyboard was talked of on this list before as I just switched from the 5 to the 6 plus and I did not pay attention to the keyboard stuff as it did not apply to myself at that time. But in getting my new phone and trying to get the keybord set up/ I had to learn to do a few things different. All of us are on different levels as to knowledge of the iphone. so is this list not to get help in doing things on our pc's or our phones /\. Yes it is taking Apple a long time to solve the problems with voiceover and seri this can cause for some of us to pull our hair out over these issues , so if you do think that one thing is asked so much go back and look at the first time you ever used an iphone I am sure that you do not become a rocket scientist on the first go , its a whole new learning curve for useing this so today is Thanksgiving and be thankful that you do know how to do things and be able to pass your knowledge on to others that may not be as swift as you may be. so god bless you for helping people that need the help. and be more understanding in how frustrating these issues may be to others , god is guiding your hand as you help others Happy Thanksgiving all Terrie Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: > > Hi Raul. > In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the > messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. > Are you owner of apple? > No, right? > Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the > accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email > list. What is your problem? > That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? > No, it is not great, and you know that. > That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not > allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not > fair, is not good? > Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. > That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and > after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying > that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he > works with this matter, and has knowledge. > What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that > I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs > 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? > This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is > happy with apple? > No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about > accessibility in apple devices, right? > Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. > You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, > talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose > your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of > that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. > Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. > I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I > got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and > also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the > Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or > any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. > And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Raul A. Gallegos > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly > thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. > > > >> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: >> >> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't >> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2 >> is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, >> liking or doesn't liking, I have to. >> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of >> treatment from apple. It is ridicu
Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
yes many many people have had problems with the update of ios. so what if the keyboard was talked of on this list before as I just switched from the 5 to the 6 plus and I did not pay attention to the keyboard stuff as it did not apply to myself at that time. But in getting my new phone and trying to get the keybord set up/ I had to learn to do a few things different. All of us are on different levels as to knowledge of the iphone. so is this list not to get help in doing things on our pc's or our phones /\. Yes it is taking Apple a long time to solve the problems with voiceover and seri this can cause for some of us to pull our hair out over these issues , so if you do think that one thing is asked so much go back and look at the first time you ever used an iphone I am sure that you do not become a rocket scientist on the first go , its a whole new learning curve for useing this so today is Thanksgiving and be thankful that you do know how to do things and be able to pass your knowledge on to others that may not be as swift as you may be. so god bless you for helping people that need the help. and be more understanding in how frustrating these issues may be to others , god is guiding your hand as you help others Happy Thanksgiving all Terrie Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 27, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: > > Hi Raul. > In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the > messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. > Are you owner of apple? > No, right? > Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the > accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email > list. What is your problem? > That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? > No, it is not great, and you know that. > That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not > allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not > fair, is not good? > Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. > That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and > after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying > that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he > works with this matter, and has knowledge. > What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that > I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs > 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? > This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is > happy with apple? > No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about > accessibility in apple devices, right? > Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. > You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, > talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose > your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of > that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. > Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. > I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I > got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and > also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the > Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or > any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. > And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. > > > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Raul A. Gallegos > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly > thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. > > > >> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: >> >> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't >> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2 >> is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, >> liking or doesn't liking, I have to. >> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of >> treatmen
RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Hi Raul. In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. Are you owner of apple? No, right? Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email list. What is your problem? That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? No, it is not great, and you know that. That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not fair, is not good? Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he works with this matter, and has knowledge. What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is happy with apple? No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about accessibility in apple devices, right? Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. > On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: > > Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't > restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2 > is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, > liking or doesn't liking, I have to. > But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of treatment > from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind of problems > with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous mistakes, > again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. a Again, it > was my last apple device. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Sieghard Weitzel > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:44 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Then you should have stayed with iOS 7.1.2, the issues with bluetooth > keyboards and braille displays have been well documented. And in case you > wonder, no, you can't go back to iOS 7.1.2 any more. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Pablo Morales > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:52 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Hi Sieghard. > Well, I have been using Bluetooth keyboard since my first iphone 4, years > ago. The problem is that if I am using the Bluetooth keyboard, some times the > keyboard stop responding. I turn it off, but the virtual keyboard doesn't > appear, so I turn on the BT, and is no way to make it to type, or to make > the iPhone respond. So I have to close what ever I was doing, and try again. > Other times, if my iPhone gets the lock screen, and I try to deactivate the > lock screen using my BT, it just doesn't respond, but it doesn't happen > always, it happen some times. > Other times, if I am trying to type the info in several text boxes, with the > bt is no way to jump and type several text boxes. I type in the first a few >
moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1
Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. > On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales wrote: > > Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't > restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2 > is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, > liking or doesn't liking, I have to. > But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of treatment > from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind of problems > with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous mistakes, > again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. a Again, it > was my last apple device. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Sieghard Weitzel > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:44 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Then you should have stayed with iOS 7.1.2, the issues with bluetooth > keyboards and braille displays have been well documented. And in case you > wonder, no, you can't go back to iOS 7.1.2 any more. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Pablo Morales > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:52 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Hi Sieghard. > Well, I have been using Bluetooth keyboard since my first iphone 4, years > ago. The problem is that if I am using the Bluetooth keyboard, some times the > keyboard stop responding. I turn it off, but the virtual keyboard doesn't > appear, so I turn on the BT, and is no way to make it to type, or to make > the iPhone respond. So I have to close what ever I was doing, and try again. > Other times, if my iPhone gets the lock screen, and I try to deactivate the > lock screen using my BT, it just doesn't respond, but it doesn't happen > always, it happen some times. > Other times, if I am trying to type the info in several text boxes, with the > bt is no way to jump and type several text boxes. I type in the first a few > boxes, but later the bt keyboard stop working. > It is very bad, because my bt was working perfectly in IOs7.1.2. > > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Sieghard Weitzel > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:58 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Hi Pablo, > > I don't use a bluetooth keyboard a lot, but I think most of the problems were > fixed. Anyhow, it's not like you didn't know what you were getting into, > especially the issue with bluetooth keyboards and braille devices has been > discussed exhaustively. It might help if you more specifically explain what > exactly your problems are. I do assume you know that you have to turn quick > nav off in order to enter text? > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Pablo Morales > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:10 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Hi Sieghard > Yes, I guess that apple did so. I am getting a lot of problems with the > Bluetooth keyboard, and I need to use the Bluetooth keyboard, a lot! > I am noticing a little bit slow my phone, I am not talking about how voice > over works, I am talking about how my iPhone respond to the events. > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Sieghard Weitzel > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:14 PM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > The 2-finger double tap works I would say 90% or so of the time. Every now > and then it will start playing whatever audio I was last listening to, > usually Audible, instead of answering the call. In that case I just 2-finger > double tap again to stop the audio and then double tap the accept button to > answer the call. Like I said, it happens rarely, but it still does happen > from time to time. > > Pablo, I hope Apple put a few extra bugs into your copy of iOS 8.1.1 just > because we all love to hear you complain *smile*. > > > Regards, > Sieghard > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Neal Ewers > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 11:04 AM > To: viphone@googlegroups.com > Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > I can double tap to answer all calls. > > Neal > > > -Original Message- > From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of > Pablo Morales > Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 12:51 PM > To: viphone > Subject: starting wi
