Re: [volt-nuts] Datron 1281 Repair Help

2014-07-24 Thread jjohnson
Михаил timka2k@... writes:

 
 M202 (DG211) switchs, pins 6-8 and 1-3.
 
 Friday, March 21, 2014, 2:45:46 PM, you wrote:
 sun I am working on a Datron 1281 meter.
 sun DC voltage calibration at 10v functions ok, but the Internal source 
 sun calibration failed.
 sun This Meter has the following errors after Internal Source Calibration.
 sun Error codes:
 sun 2202 1KVRange zero magnitude test   (P028).
 sun 2192 100V  Range zero magnitude test   (P021).
 sun 2162 10VRange zero magnitude test   (P006).
 sun What would cause these errors?
 
 


I have the same issue and prior to seeing this blog i checked the m202 dg11 
switchs and did not find an issue. What i did see was noise on the guard 
around that line which goes to the non-inverting side of the dc amp, where 
that noise is coming from possibly the bootstrap i am not 100% or i would have 
fixed it. But it seems like this is a common issue this is the second post i 
have found on this issue which makes me believe it not a cold solder issue. 
Ive checked most caps in power supply and dc board if you have any other 
possibilities please let me know.

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Re: [volt-nuts] Matched resistors

2014-07-24 Thread Randy Evans
Tony,

Sorry for not reading further.  I will give it some thought. Interesting
idea.

Randy


On Thu, Jul 24, 2014 at 5:13 AM, Tony Holt vn...@toneh.demon.co.uk wrote:

 Randy,


 On 24/07/2014 04:22, Randy Evans wrote:

 Tony,

 Your improvement factor of SQRT(n) assumes that each resistor in the group
 has random changes uncorrelated to all others in the group.  For similar
 type resistors, I would think that is not likely to be true.


 Yes/,/ I'm well aware of that which is why I discussed that point further
 down in my post. It was a long post though so I don't blame you for getting
 bored and not getting that far!


  For shelf life
 stability it is likely that they all age in a similar way.  Unless the
 resistors are in a hermetic package, humidity would impact all the
 resistors in a similar manner.

 Randy

 Exactly. Since they are being used in a 1:1 divider configuration, if they
 age in a similar way, the tracking ratio stability will be good. The
 reality however is that there will be some variance between components, and
 using multiple resisters will reduce that overall variance. Part of the
 variance between individual resisters will likely follow a Guassian
 distribution and thus the improvement factor for that element will be
 SQRT(N).

 Some of the variance will likely be due to random factors which have a
 rather different distribution, probably highly skewed with long tails, and
 thus the improvement probably won't be SQRT(N). My conjecture (ok random
 speculation) is that factors such as stress differences due to
 microcracking in the ceramic substrate or at the terminations may cause
 some of the latter. Nevertheless, even though part of the variance doesn't
 follow SQRT(N) the variance will still reduce by using multiple identical
 resisters (if there are enough*). The problem is knowing how much - it
 probably can only be determined by lengthy experimentation, unless some
 good empirical data can be obtained from manufacturers or research papers.

 Another complication is that I believe that thin film resistor stability
 and TCR characteristics improve as the resistance reduces. This is not
 usually reflected in the datasheet but using multiple resistors in series
 allows lower values to be used which may perform better. On the other hand,
 thermal EMF problems may increase proportionally.

 TCR tracking is much easier to measure, so it might be interesting to see
 how it improves with increasing numbers of resisters. However, I understand
 that ratio stability is likely to be a bigger problem than TCR tracking.

 The other end of the spectrum, using a single Vishay VHD foil divider is
 certainly the simplest; however bear in mind that Vishay's stated typical
 tracking TCR of  .1ppm is just that, and the one that you buy may be
 anything but typical. And if you can work out the maximum tracking TCR from
 the VHD144/200 datasheet, you're a better man than I. My guess is that its
 probably better than .5ppm which is likely good enough for your
 application. But would it perform better than, say $30 worth of Vishay DFN,
 3ppm 4-resister networks, 1 year shelf life ratio stability  20ppm? I
 don't know.

 Of course there's nothing to stop you using multiple VHDs if you can get
 them at a good price. Ebay maybe?

 *) If all resisters are identical expcept that 1 in a 100 is markedly
 different, then any 10 will have a good chance (90%) of being identical;
 using 100 will have a good chance (64%) that at least one is different and
 thus the overall error would be at least 1/100 of the difference.

 Tony H

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