Re: [volt-nuts] volt-nuts Digest, Vol 77, Issue 15

2016-01-31 Thread new 

I'm thinking of doing non-commercial 'calibrations' for
folks like us volt-nuts.

 Since I have three 3458s, three 732As, a 732b, a 4214,
an sr104, a 4210, all NIST cal'ed and I could do front-panel
adjustments for the 3457.

 Would anyone here like to do that? I would start by
replacing the cal battery, too.

  I could give the 'as found' and 'as left' numbers too,
for the meters that arrived with 'alive' batteries.

 Probably best to do it on fleabay to protect everyone
involved.

 If this post is a violation of volt-nuts policy, please take it down!

Willy



On 1/31/2016 12:00 PM, volt-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:

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Today's Topics:

1. Re: 3457A - should I preserve SRAM contents, or purposely
   corrupt them by removing power?
   (Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd))


--

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:54:10 +
From: "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)"

To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement 
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] 3457A - should I preserve SRAM contents, or
purposely corrupt them by removing power?
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On 25 January 2016 at 11:12, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:


As noted in another thread, I want to replace a battery in a 3457A that
has not been replaced in at least 11 years. The instrument has not been
calibrated in that time either. At the time it was purchased from a dealer,
I was told it was within specification, but if I wanted it calibrated I
would need to pay. I never did have it calibrated, so have no historical
data about this. I've no idea when it was calibrated, and have no cal
certificate, so have no idea of the errors at the time of calibration.

I now want to change the battery, *and* send it to Keysight for
calibration - I have a healthy skepticism of 3rd party labs, so would
rather pay more and get the job done by Keysight.

I'm wondering if I would be better purposely removing the battery, and
putting a short across the SRAM so I ensure the contents are definitely
lost. My logic is that

1) If I send it to Keysight and the cal data is corrupt, they will set the
meter correct.

2) If sent to Keysight, with the cal data in tact, then if its within
specification they will not adjust it. So if the limit on some parameter is
1%, and the error is 0.5%, then it will not be adjusted. But if the SRAM is
corrupted, the error will be huge (if it will read at all), so it would
force Keysight to adjust it to the correct value.





At that point the error should be effectively zero





Thoughts?


Someone sent me a private email, saying that if by purposely removed the
power from the SRAM  caused the 3457A to fail its self-tests, which is may
well do, then Keysight may consider the 3457A needs repair, and so offer a
fixed-price repair. Hence my "trick" to get this calibrated as accurately
as possible would have backfired, and I'd be out of pocket. In fact, on a
3457A, the fixed-price-repair would probably cost more than the instrument
is worth, as these are not worth a lot now.

Hence I would not do this before getting clarification from Keysight. It
might be possible to get them to set it right, even if within spec, but I
think their calibration routines are very automated, so its probably not so
easy to get a special calibration, whilst paying for their cheapest
calibration service.

Dave


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End of volt-nuts Digest, Vol 77, Issue 15
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Re: [volt-nuts] volt-nuts Digest, Vol 77, Issue 15

2016-01-31 Thread Randy Evans 
Willy,

Where are you located?

Randy Evans
AE6YG

On Sun, Jan 31, 2016 at 11:49 AM, new  wrote:

> I'm thinking of doing non-commercial 'calibrations' for
> folks like us volt-nuts.
>
>  Since I have three 3458s, three 732As, a 732b, a 4214,
> an sr104, a 4210, all NIST cal'ed and I could do front-panel
> adjustments for the 3457.
>
>  Would anyone here like to do that? I would start by
> replacing the cal battery, too.
>
>   I could give the 'as found' and 'as left' numbers too,
> for the meters that arrived with 'alive' batteries.
>
>  Probably best to do it on fleabay to protect everyone
> involved.
>
>  If this post is a violation of volt-nuts policy, please take it down!
>
> Willy
>
>
>
> On 1/31/2016 12:00 PM, volt-nuts-requ...@febo.com wrote:
>
>> Send volt-nuts mailing list submissions to
>> volt-nuts@febo.com
>>
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> volt-nuts-requ...@febo.com
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> volt-nuts-ow...@febo.com
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of volt-nuts digest..."
>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: 3457A - should I preserve SRAM contents, or purposely
>>corrupt them by removing power?
>>(Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd))
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sun, 31 Jan 2016 10:54:10 +
>> From: "Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd)"
>> 
>> To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement 
>> Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] 3457A - should I preserve SRAM contents, or
>> purposely corrupt them by removing power?
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> canx10hcqoek9n+a0pinrzdzvc3b4d7twyztkuzvx_n9nmwc...@mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> On 25 January 2016 at 11:12, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
>> drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> As noted in another thread, I want to replace a battery in a 3457A that
>>> has not been replaced in at least 11 years. The instrument has not been
>>> calibrated in that time either. At the time it was purchased from a
>>> dealer,
>>> I was told it was within specification, but if I wanted it calibrated I
>>> would need to pay. I never did have it calibrated, so have no historical
>>> data about this. I've no idea when it was calibrated, and have no cal
>>> certificate, so have no idea of the errors at the time of calibration.
>>>
>>> I now want to change the battery, *and* send it to Keysight for
>>> calibration - I have a healthy skepticism of 3rd party labs, so would
>>> rather pay more and get the job done by Keysight.
>>>
>>> I'm wondering if I would be better purposely removing the battery, and
>>> putting a short across the SRAM so I ensure the contents are definitely
>>> lost. My logic is that
>>>
>>> 1) If I send it to Keysight and the cal data is corrupt, they will set
>>> the
>>> meter correct.
>>>
>>> 2) If sent to Keysight, with the cal data in tact, then if its within
>>> specification they will not adjust it. So if the limit on some parameter
>>> is
>>> 1%, and the error is 0.5%, then it will not be adjusted. But if the SRAM
>>> is
>>> corrupted, the error will be huge (if it will read at all), so it would
>>> force Keysight to adjust it to the correct value.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> At that point the error should be effectively zero
>>>
>>> 
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Someone sent me a private email, saying that if by purposely removed the
>> power from the SRAM  caused the 3457A to fail its self-tests, which is may
>> well do, then Keysight may consider the 3457A needs repair, and so offer a
>> fixed-price repair. Hence my "trick" to get this calibrated as accurately
>> as possible would have backfired, and I'd be out of pocket. In fact, on a
>> 3457A, the fixed-price-repair would probably cost more than the instrument
>> is worth, as these are not worth a lot now.
>>
>> Hence I would not do this before getting clarification from Keysight. It
>> might be possible to get them to set it right, even if within spec, but I
>> think their calibration routines are very automated, so its probably not
>> so
>> easy to get a special calibration, whilst paying for their cheapest
>> calibration service.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> ___
>> volt-nuts mailing list
>> volt-nuts@febo.com
>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>>
>> --
>>
>> End of volt-nuts Digest, Vol 77, Issue 15
>> *
>>
>>
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Re: [volt-nuts] 3457A - should I preserve SRAM contents, or purposely corrupt them by removing power?

2016-01-31 Thread Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) 
On 25 January 2016 at 11:12, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) <
drkir...@kirkbymicrowave.co.uk> wrote:

> As noted in another thread, I want to replace a battery in a 3457A that
> has not been replaced in at least 11 years. The instrument has not been
> calibrated in that time either. At the time it was purchased from a dealer,
> I was told it was within specification, but if I wanted it calibrated I
> would need to pay. I never did have it calibrated, so have no historical
> data about this. I've no idea when it was calibrated, and have no cal
> certificate, so have no idea of the errors at the time of calibration.
>
> I now want to change the battery, *and* send it to Keysight for
> calibration - I have a healthy skepticism of 3rd party labs, so would
> rather pay more and get the job done by Keysight.
>
> I'm wondering if I would be better purposely removing the battery, and
> putting a short across the SRAM so I ensure the contents are definitely
> lost. My logic is that
>
> 1) If I send it to Keysight and the cal data is corrupt, they will set the
> meter correct.
>
> 2) If sent to Keysight, with the cal data in tact, then if its within
> specification they will not adjust it. So if the limit on some parameter is
> 1%, and the error is 0.5%, then it will not be adjusted. But if the SRAM is
> corrupted, the error will be huge (if it will read at all), so it would
> force Keysight to adjust it to the correct value.
>



> At that point the error should be effectively zero
>


> Thoughts?
>

Someone sent me a private email, saying that if by purposely removed the
power from the SRAM  caused the 3457A to fail its self-tests, which is may
well do, then Keysight may consider the 3457A needs repair, and so offer a
fixed-price repair. Hence my "trick" to get this calibrated as accurately
as possible would have backfired, and I'd be out of pocket. In fact, on a
3457A, the fixed-price-repair would probably cost more than the instrument
is worth, as these are not worth a lot now.

Hence I would not do this before getting clarification from Keysight. It
might be possible to get them to set it right, even if within spec, but I
think their calibration routines are very automated, so its probably not so
easy to get a special calibration, whilst paying for their cheapest
calibration service.

Dave
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