[volt-nuts] Fluke 893 vs 895.........or other?

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

I am in the process of putting together AC/DC voltage standards in the home 
lab.  I want to add the necessary equipment to check out the gear and need a 
differential voltmeter / null detector as called out in the service manuals for 
the Fluke 5200A and 332D that I have recently acquired.   I am new enough to 
this that it would be helpful for me to have the brain trust here offer a 
little experience to my thoughts.

The manual for the Fluke 332D stipulates that I need (2) 895A or equivalent.

The Fluke 5200A manual calls for a Fluke 887A and a 931A or equivalent.

And... I will be adding a Fluke 5205A to finish 
off the standards.

There is a very nice 893A at a local shop with ALL factory new accessory cords 
and a fair price.  Will this fill the bill or should I be looking specifically 
for the 895, 887, and 931?

Orare there any others that are better suited, like the 845A.  
Fluke has so many darn Differential Voltmeters and Null-Detectors that it seems 
a daunting task to sort it all out.

Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] volt-nuts Digest, Vol 63, Issue 5

[David Garrido]

So what I am hearing is that I should find either a Fluke 8506 or HP 
3458A.h.  I have always wanted that HP!

:  )

David
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[volt-nuts] Sometimes you just gotta gloat............

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

I have been on the lookout for a variety of different FLUKE equipment.  And 
today, it all came together in a wonderful way.

I went to my favorite local Equipment Surplus Center on the hunt for an HP 
6260B DC PSU.  Found one, 40 dollars. DONE!!!  Or so I thought, until I decided 
to take one more quick look before leaving with my new to me DC PSU.

While cruising around I spotted what looked like a FLUKE 7105A Calibration 
System.  You know the one.all hidden back in a dark corner.  Well, sure 
enough it was a 7105A with its full compliment of test gear.  335D, 845AR, 
720A, 721A, and a BUNCH of interconnects.  All of the equipment looks to be in 
fine shape and VERY clean.  No busted or bent posts, all knobs and switches 
intact.  The best part..when I asked how much he would sell it for he told 
me, “If and ONLY if you take both the HP 6260B and the 7105A, I will give it to 
you for $250 cash total.”

Needles to say, I could not get my pocket opened fast enoughout flew the 
cash and the gear was even loaded into the back of my truck for me.

It has been a VERY good morning gentleman, a very good morning indeed.

I do have a question regarding all of the FLUKE cables that came with the 7105A:

These are the part no’s:

PCA-0110
PCA-0116
PCA-0126
PCA-0136
PCA-0227
PCA-0536
PCA-0627
PCA-0636

I have multiples of these and cannot seem to locate any info on these anywhere. 
 I have skimmed through the manuals for all of the gear and they seem to have 
no reference.  What SPECIFICALLY are these for and where would one find the 
info for them and their use?

Cheers,

David
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[volt-nuts] Fluke 720a self calibration repair

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

I am trying to track down what I think is a small issue in the calibration of 
my new to me 720a.  I am dreadfully paranoid of jacking something up in the 
process and need a little hand holding.

I was going through the Self Calibration steps and every thing was going well 
up to the adjustment of the "A 1.0" decade switch position.  All of the 
variable resistors up to that point needed to be turned CW in order to null the 
appropriate switch position.  The “A 1.0” adjustment pot does not null the 
switch position and is not getting any closer than about 2.5uV.  I verified the 
meter balance between every other step.  I have checked, in circuit, R302 and 
R303 and I am getting a VERY SOLID reading of 9.896 on all of those.  Of 
course, checking R1006 and R1010 give me significantly different readings than 
the stipulated 8.45k.

I cannot seem to be able to find a CCW or CW limit to this resistor and I think 
I read somewhere that there are supposed to be run from end to end several 
times if an issue arises.  Do these var resistors have limits?  I need a little 
help moving forward.

Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 720a self calibration repair

[David Garrido]

Bill,

After having spent the last couple of hours getting to know the switching, 
schematic, circuit, and layout I had a chance to lift the leg of R1006.  
Measured spot on as did R1005 and R1007.  I was able to measure those resistors 
in the tank as well.  Having done all of this I was thinking about the VERY 
same thought to find the center as I did have to turn all of the pots in the 
“A” decade in the same CW direction to bring them into spec.  If I remember 
correctly as I was checking the R1005 (20 turn pot), I recall it bringing the 
resistance out of R1005 down, as I was turning the pot CW and that was 
lowering, so opposite.  I am going to try this and if all the rest falls into 
place after the adjustments, I will call it a success.

BTW……….so far after initial inspection and testing, the 335D, 845AR, and the 
721a all seem like they just needed cleaning and adjustment.  This is the only 
one left from that 7105a Calibrator and I have a 750a on the way to finish it 
all out.  The 5200a is all clean and adjusted and I am still working on a small 
issue in the 5205a.  Other than that, I just need a 540b and a rented 3458a to 
calibrate all of the calibrators.

LOL!

Thank you so much for allowing the bandwidth.

Cheers,

David
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[volt-nuts] Fluke 750a batteries.............

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

I posted this over at the HP yahoo group as well, so pardon the redundancy if 
you belong to both or more.

My new to me Fluke 750a reference divider arrived last evening and I have been 
having one heck of a time finding info on replacement battery options others 
have used on their 750a's.  Fluke spec'd (2) 6.7v mercury cell batteries for 
the overload protection circuit and these are clearly no longer available.  
What is everyone using for power?  I am hoping to not use a separate DC supply 
for this app.



The only manual I can find is here:



http://bama.edebris.com/manuals/fluke/750a/ 


I have been able to find Wein batteries that are 1.35v zinc/air and I could 
stack and shrink wrap 5 of those in series to arrive at 6.75 very stable volts, 
but they are a minimum of $4.50 each cell.  I was hoping to find a more 
affordable / elegant solution.



Will the circuit handle (2) 3.6v Li-Ion in series instead?



Any thoughts?



Cheers,



David
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 750a batteries.............

[David Garrido]

WOW  Thank you for that.

I must not know the best way to search the archives.  I only know to go to 
google and type in my search and add volt-nuts febo.com 

Is there a better way to search the archives that I am not aware of?

Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 720a self calibration repair

[David Garrido]

I like that Idea.  Do you recall the part number of the resistors you found?

Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 750a batteries.............

[David Garrido]

Ah, Thank you Dave!!!

cheers
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 720a self calibration repair

[David Garrido]

Thank you for all of the input on this folks.

Does anyone have a copy of the datasheet for the original Ramo-Eltra P/N 
3800P-502?

The reason I ask is that the price of these parts is driven in part by the 
tempco and I found info that indicated 20ppm/C on one website, but that was not 
a DS, just a listing of the info.  If they can be 50ppm/C or even 100ppm/C, 
then the price drops exponentially.  

I will do whatever is necessary to maintain or (LOL) improve the 720’s 
legendary performance.

Cheers,

David
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[volt-nuts] Fluke 5205a Repair

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

I know this is not specifically discussing precise voltage, but it is about 
producing it.  We should consider starting a FLUKE calibration equipment repair 
forum.

Anyhoo………I have been scratching my head over this 5205a issue for a couple 
weeks now.  It presents with a OVERLOAD light after the warm-up period of about 
30 seconds. If I try to apply a voltage from the 5200a I get a FAULT light and 
I have to reboot the power in order to clear the FAULT led, but the OVERLOAD 
led still comes back on after the warm-up period.

Going through the TS procedures on page 4-24 in the manual tell me to check for 
an issue “…….in the disabling circuit between the Warm-Up Delay circuit and 
U8-11 on the logic assy.”

The first place I looked was at both of the bases of Q104 for a difference of 
more than 125mV. Pin 2 reads -5.83v and pin 5 reads -5.19v, so obviously it 
sends it into OVERLOAD mode.

Knowing this, I continued deeper into the circuit.  I am currently working in 
the Neg HV Sensor circuit on pg. 3-7 and it tells me “If the output (HV) 
becomes less negative than -2225a, a high output results at the coupler U52, 
setting the instrument to standby.”  Pin 3 of U167 is +4.97v, Pin 2 is +6.25v, 
Pin 7 is +21.1v and so is Pin 5 of U52.

Now, there are two adjustments in the cal procedure, 4-82 & 4-85, that adjust 
the POS and NEG Current Trip Level, but I am not certain I want to disable the 
OVERLOAD circuit to make this adjustment without knowing what may be wrong for 
fear of doing more harm than good.  But on the other hand, this may very well 
be exactly what is causing the tripping in the first place.

I could use any help one would offer and the manual is located here:

http://assets.fluke.com/manuals/5205A___imeng.pdf 


Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 5205a Repair

[David Garrido]

Hello Chuck,

You are absolutely correct, this is a one hand in your back pocket job, no 
doubt!!!

This is VERY clean inside, in fact one might even say pristine.  Which is just 
one of the many reasons I want to get it going properly.  I re-seated all of 
the boards during the initial inspection when it arrived as well as all of the 
connectors and patch cords.  It truly is spotless and I just rechecked for 
spiders………..hmmm.

Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 5205a Repair

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

I am making a little more headway on this issue of the OVERLOAD & FAULT led’s 
being triggered and shutting down the system.

In paragraph 3-34 on page 3-4 of the manual it states:

Once U2-3 has been pulled low and a 3-9ms delay, the Operate FF J Input, U41-4 
is supposed to go high.  And it does, BUT the next thing in the line is a short 
delay caused by R121 & C43 and that signal showing up at U41-1 should be low.  
It is NOT and neither is the Q Output (U41-14).  So I thought ok GREAT, only 
pin 4 should be high and both of the others must be low.  Easy fix, plop in 
another SN74106N and I should be GTG.

Not so much………..still the same issue after warm-up, the OVERLOAD led comes on, 
followed very shortly by the FAULT led.  Now I checked U3-9, it is low and U3-8 
high.  Next was U4-9 and it was high and pin 8 was low.  On to U40-9, it is low 
and pin 8 is high which is what was pushing U41-1 high.

So I went and checked R121, she measured 389 ohms and C43, a 4.7uf TA, measured 
5.1 with 1.2 ESR.  That all seems good.

BUT…….

So I decided to try putting the amp into the OPERATE mode and see if that 
changed the input to U41-1as it is supposed to follow the low from U3-8, it 
did.  Yes, U3-8 is now 100mV along with U3-9.  U4-9 is low and U4-8 is high.  
U40-9 is high and 8 is low.  Now the signal at U41-4 is high as before, The 
signal at U41-1 is low as expected, BUT………..the signal at U41-14 did not go low 
following the low at U41-1.  Hmmm

Scratching my head………..

In summary in the standby mode:

U3-9 LOW
U3-8 HIGH

U4-9 HIGH
U4-8 LOW

U40-9 LOW
U40-8 HIGH

U41-1 HIGH
U41-4 HIGH
U41-14 HIGH

In summary in the OPERATE mode:

U3-9 LOW
U3-8 LOW

U4-9 LOW
U4-8 HIGH

U40-9 HIGH
U40-8 LOW

U41-1 LOW
U41-4 HIGH
U41-14 HIGH


I could use a little more brain power as this too seems to be a bad U41-FF, but 
I changed that.  So unless my other U41 FF was bad in the very same 
way…what am I missing

Thoughts?

Cheers,

David


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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 720a self calibration repair

[David Garrido]

Thank you Bill.  I think I found the exact same thing.  I have to add them to 
the "need to order” list.

I am very hopeful that I can get this whole analog ac/dc calibration nailed by 
the first of the year.  Going at it from a mostly independent lab standards 
point, it is not an easy thing to accomplish for less than a WHOLE bunch-o-time 
and a little cash at the right moment.  It is a great learning experience so 
far!

Cheers,

David
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[volt-nuts] 540b Arrival...........

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

My new to me 540b arrived last evening.  I have never used one of these so I 
put it on the bench, opened it up and inspected it looking for leaks primarily. 
 EVERYTHING is spotless.  Fluke factory cal stickers everywhere.  AND.after 
plugging her in over night, all of the batteries take a charge and test in the 
middle of the BATT scale.

CRAZY!

All of the batteries in the 20 cell pack are individually shrink wrapped in 
light blue and the two others on top are AA size lithiums.  Two of them 
side-by-side.  Was this a factory mod?  All the work looks to be factory, but 
who knows if the PO was just REALLY good at clean work.

Anyhoo………thanks for the bandwidth.

Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] 540b Arrival...........

[David Garrido]

Thank you Bill.  I would like a copy.

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 5205a Repair

[David Garrido]

Hmm…..

I am having one heck of a time tracking this one down folks.  I am starting to 
entertain the idea that there is a possibility that somehow, me having this 
things wide open is causing my difficulties here.  Besides having the “Lid Open 
and Disable switch,” I have that pulled up, is it possible that not having this 
thing buttoned up all snug and tight could be a problem?

I have found myself in a spot where U41-11 is being sent low and causing a 
fault indicator or high to be sent to U4-13.  I cannot for the life of me 
figure out why this is.

The differential Q104 is experiencing a difference of about 600mV from pin 5 
and 2.

But I am wondering if that is one end of my loop and not the start?

Hmm…..

Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] Fluke 5205a Repair

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

Could someone be so kind as to measure TP1 and tell me what TP1 should read 
under normal circumstances.  I am getting 7v at TP1 and need to know if this is 
correct or even close.  I think it should be zero with zero input, but I am not 
certain.

Cheers,

David
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[volt-nuts] Fluke 731b Rack Mounting

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

I just picked up a 731b that I would like to mount in a rack with a back up 
UPS.  I know that Fluke made the "Rack Mounting Kit M03-205-605"

These were used to house up to four of these standards in the space of 3U, I 
think.

The present day version of this is the Fluke 734a-7001.

Does anyone know where to find one of these older rack options or know if the 
present day 734a would fit the older 731b standards?

Cheers,

David
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[volt-nuts] Solartron 7071 fair market value?

[David Garrido]

I have been trying to find some selling history for these units, but it seems 
to be lacking.  Does anyone have an idea what these are going for in fully 
functional condition without probes, errors, or docs?

Cheers,

David
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[volt-nuts] Solartron 7061 "CAL NOT DONE" error

[David Garrido]

Hello All,

I recently picked up a 7061 and found it to have a “CAL NOT DONE” error on 
start-up.  I understand this to mean that I need to calibrate the unit of 
course, but I was hoping some might have a little experience based guidance for 
the newbe owner of a solatron/schlumberger 7061.  The last cal sticker is 
intact and probably needs a new battery as well as a good cleaning, but what 
else should I look for or replace while I am in there.  I will take it to a 
friend with a few standards in house to calibrate it.  I know I will find the 
zener ref data written somewhere toward the rear of the inside and that will be 
needed for calibration.  I have not fully digested the manual at this point and 
was hoping someone would know off the top of their head whether or not it needs 
to be calibrated with specific software or do we simply need voltage and 
resistance standards?

Cheers,

David
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Re: [volt-nuts] LTZ1000 project build

[David Garrido]

Heck, if you’re going to make one, you might as well make one GREAT.

I would be interested in doing a 4910 version, so to speak.  Four in one 
thermal box and the ability to use them independently or summed and averaged.  
Similar to the Fluke 730a, I think?  Oh, and one of them must be removable for 
transportation.  :  )

Of course, if properly designed one could build any number of them into 
whatever box they can podge together and use the boards as they please.  I’m 
in!!  I would find it difficult to believe we could not find 100 individuals 
that would buy at least one.  The challenge is buying the LTZ’s in enough QTY 
to grade them like Solartron did in the 7071 and 81’s.

David


> On May 25, 2016, at 9:42 PM, bownes  wrote:
> 
> 
> As Dr K said, traceable and usefully calibrated are not necessarily 
> connected. 

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Re: [volt-nuts] Looking for Datron 4808 Service Manual

[David Garrido]

Did you ever find the manual?

Cheers,

David



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Re: [volt-nuts] Keithley 2001 vs HP 3457A multimeters / Any problems to watch out for on Keithley 2001?

[David Garrido]

Good Morning Dave,

I just traded my 2001 for a 182 in equally nice condition.  Each of them in 
solid working condition should fetch north of 1000USD.  One of the hidden 
features of the 2001 is that it WILL display 8.5 digits on screen.  It will not 
be as stable as running a Solartron 7071 in 8.5 DM, but nice to know.  To my 
understanding the 3457 is not as stable as the 3456 not to mention all of its 
other limitations WRT other 6.5 digit meters.

Your inner volt-nut will be pleased.  Especially at that price!!!

Cheers,

David
> On Jun 24, 2016, at 7:16 AM, Dr. David Kirkby (Kirkby Microwave Ltd) 
>  wrote:
> 
> I've got an HP 3457A (6.5 digit multimeter) which has served me well.  But
> I see a Keithley 2001 7.5 digit meter on eBay
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/152113460174
> 
> which sort of tempted me as
> 
> 1) It has an extra digit, I have not looked to see how much that extra
> digit gains one. It would be nice to think the uncertainty is only 10% of
> the 6.5 digit 3457A, but I very much doubt that's the case. I have not
> looked at the specs closely.
> 
> 2) I see it was a current model at Farnell selling at £4150 + 20% VAT =
> £4980, so quite a bit of money. The 2001 is not a cheap meter.
> 
> 3) It was £650 or "best offer".
> 
> 4) The 3457A is a great meter, but is much older.
> 
> Anyway, my offer of £380 (GBP), was accepted, which is 7.6% of the current
> cost of this new from Farnell. As I write, this is around $520 (USD), but
> with the UK just voted to exit the EU, and the pound fallen quite a bit,
> that US price may not be very representative. But it seems fairly cheap. I
> can't see any Keithley 2001's sell for that low on eBay, unless they have
> had faults.
> 
> Having made an offer, it been accepted, and me paid for it, now I decide to
> see if it was a good or bad idea! I think one is compare the meters first,
> then make a decision to buy or not, but I have done this the other way
> around!
> 
> I'm interested in hearing any onions on
> 
> 1) What's the 2001 like in general?
> 
> 2) How does it compare to the 3457A? Have I made  big mistake in paying
> £380 (GBP) to buy a 2001, when I already have a HP 3457A?
> 
> 3) Are there any specific advantages of the 3457A which would make it
> desirable to keep both units, rather than sell the 3457A, which is my
> intention?
> 
> 4) I assume the "Revision A06" refers to some hardware/firmware releases.
> Does that give any idea of how old this is?
> 
> 5) I note from a Google there are some revision B07's, which I am assuming
> are later. Does anyone know if there are any significant issues on an A06,
> or whether it can be upgraded - is it just firmware?
> 
> *6) Most importantly, are there any specific faults that occur on the 2001,
> which I might be able to spot doing procedures X, Y and Z, but which are
> not blindingly obvious? *
> 
> Obviously when this arrives, I will attempt to do any self-tests I can find
> in the manual. I don't have any "standard" good enough to check the
> accuracy, but a comparison with the 3457A should show up any really bad
> faults - or at least leave me wondering what meter to trust! I will be like
> the man with two clocks! The 3457A has not bee calibrated for ages.
> 
> I will get a quote from Tektronix for calibration. Hopefully that will show
> up any faults.
> 
> BTW, it does seem the 8.5 digit meters (Agilent 3458A, Keithley 2002) hold
> their value far more than the 7.5 digit ones. I guess the cheaper 7.5 digit
> ones are sold in much larger quantities.
> 
> 
> Dave
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Re: [volt-nuts] 731B on eBay

[David Garrido]

They were from Harris Semiconductor which just shut down a fab plant not long 
ago.  That is the assumption as all of the Fluke TE that seller has been moving 
is marked with a Harris sticker.

Cheers,

d
> On Jul 5, 2016, at 6:49 PM, gilb...@nickgilbert.org wrote:
> 
> Auctions for Fluke 731Bs for $39 starting seem to be going up on the bay 
> daily. Sellers using the same picture for each. Anyone score one or know 
> where they're coming from?
> 
> -Nick
> 
> 
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