[volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Mark Sims]

Mine have 2 oz copper on each side and some via stitching between the sides.   
I am waiting for the prototypes from OSHPARK to determine if / where I can add 
additional vias without compromising the structural integrity by creating 
"break me here" fault paths.

I have a 4-way layout in the works (basically the same design with longer 
"legs" that will reach to the other pair of jacks.   Unlike the Fluke one, I 
don't have any solder mask on mine.  Different banana jacks have different 
sized contact disks and if you get the solder mask too close to the slot it can 
keep the jack from making contact to the copper / ENIG gold.

--

That said, the 8508A-7000K board has thick, wide traces on BOTH sides for the 
current and sense terminals and a smaller trace bridging sense to current
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Don@True-Cal]

For all of the instruments I referenced, including the Fluke 8508A by inference 
of the Fluke short model number, it is much more about controlling or 
minimizing Seebeck EMF. For the low end resistance ranges on these instruments, 
far greater error is introduced from thermal EMF than from the absolute trace 
resistance of the board. That said, the 8508A-7000K board has thick, wide 
traces on BOTH sides for the current and sense terminals and a smaller trace 
bridging sense to current. A more compelling test might be to measure and 
record sub-microvolts changes over time with air currents on the terminals. If 
this test was repeated using the solid copper S-shaped 4W short suggested for 
the 3458A calibration, I would guess that the solid wire might take more time 
to come to thermal equilibrium with the terminals. I may give it a try.
Don

-Original Message-
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Nichols
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 12:52 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement <volt-nuts@febo.com>
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

It would be interesting to see results of a resistance measurement of some of 
these "shorts" using an appropriate low-resistance instrument.

Jeremy
N6WFO


On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 8:09 AM Don@True-Cal <truecalservi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Mark,
> I would recommend duplicating the Fluke 8508A-7000K 4W Short 
> Calibration Board design. This board fits my 3458A & 3457A exactly and 
> drops in place nicely from the top after the binding posts are opened 
> sufficiently. I also have the banana plug style 2001-182-01B Cal Short 
> that fits my Keithley
> 2002
> (also 2000/01/15). I can provide hi-res pictures of either one and 
> provide measurements if needed. Both styles have Ag plating. See attachment 
> left.
> Don
>
> -Original Message-
> From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark 
> Sims
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 7:01 PM
> To: volt-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps
>
> Here's what they should look like...  dots are via stitching between 
> the top and bottom.
> ___
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> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Jeremy Nichols]

It would be interesting to see results of a resistance measurement of some
of these "shorts" using an appropriate low-resistance instrument.

Jeremy
N6WFO


On Sat, Nov 11, 2017 at 8:09 AM Don@True-Cal <truecalservi...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Mark,
> I would recommend duplicating the Fluke 8508A-7000K 4W Short Calibration
> Board design. This board fits my 3458A & 3457A exactly and drops in place
> nicely from the top after the binding posts are opened sufficiently. I also
> have the banana plug style 2001-182-01B Cal Short that fits my Keithley
> 2002
> (also 2000/01/15). I can provide hi-res pictures of either one and provide
> measurements if needed. Both styles have Ag plating. See attachment left.
> Don
>
> -Original Message-
> From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims
> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 7:01 PM
> To: volt-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps
>
> Here's what they should look like...  dots are via stitching between the
> top
> and bottom.
> ___
> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to
> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> and follow the instructions there.

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[volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Mark Sims]

If the two wire straps  work out, I will probably do a four wire short.  When I 
need I four wire short (which isn't very often), I usually just use a freshly 
stripped piece of copper wire.
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Don@True-Cal]

Mark,
I would recommend duplicating the Fluke 8508A-7000K 4W Short Calibration
Board design. This board fits my 3458A & 3457A exactly and drops in place
nicely from the top after the binding posts are opened sufficiently. I also
have the banana plug style 2001-182-01B Cal Short that fits my Keithley 2002
(also 2000/01/15). I can provide hi-res pictures of either one and provide
measurements if needed. Both styles have Ag plating. See attachment left.
Don

-Original Message-
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims
Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2017 7:01 PM
To: volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

Here's what they should look like...  dots are via stitching between the top
and bottom.
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[volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Mark Sims]

It's basically an "E" shaped PCB around 15x35mm that can be used to do things 
like short between sense and drive banana jacks.

-

> I'm trying to imagine what you are describing - is this PCBs with 4mm banana 
> plugs installed or a small PCB with two slots at 3/4" centres to match the 
> socket spacing?
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Rob Klein]

Hmm, it appears that is true. I've just checked on both my 3456 and 3457 and 
they do indeed have a larger horizontal spacing. Interestingly, the spacing on 
the 3456 is slightly smaller than on the 3457.


⁣Met vriendelijke groet,
Rob Klein

verstuurd vanaf mijn smartphone​

Op 9 nov. 2017 19:48, om 19:48, Randy Evans <randyevans2...@gmail.com> schreef:
>I believe that the Fluke shorting system has 3/4" spacing both
>vertically
>and horizontally, which is not compatible with the 3458 (I couldn't
>find a
>spec but visually it looks identically in both dimensions in the
>photos).
>The 3458 spacing is slightly greater than 3/4' horizontally.
>
>On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Rob Klein <rob.kl...@smalldesign.nl>
>wrote:
>
>> You gentlemen are aware that these things are available from Fluke at
>a
>> fairly reasonable price?
>>
>> http://nl.farnell.com/fluke/fluke-884x-short/lead-test-4-
>> wire-fluke-884x-short/dp/1274092
>>
>>
>> ⁣Met vriendelijke groet,
>> Rob Klein
>>
>> verstuurd vanaf mijn smartphone​
>>
>> Op 9 nov. 2017 14:12, om 14:12, "David C. Partridge" <
>> david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk> schreef:
>> >Mark
>> >
>> >I'm trying to imagine what you are describing - is this PCBs with
>4mm
>> >banana plugs installed or a small PCB with two slots at 3/4" centres
>to
>> >match the socket spacing?
>> >
>> >If the latter is this intended to cover just two sockets or to short
>> >all four Force and Sense sockets together (if arranged like a
>3458A)?
>> >
>> >Thanks
>> >Dave
>> >
>> >-Original Message-
>> >From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of
>Mark
>> >Sims
>> >Sent: 09 November 2017 02:14
>> >To: volt-nuts@febo.com
>> >Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps
>> >
>> >The main use of these would be shorting sense to drive jacks.  They
>> >could also be used for input shorts.  The advantage over bare copper
>> >would be the ENIG gold finish... bare copper quickly forms oxide
>layers
>> >and copper oxide has a horrible thermal EMF.  Granted, ENIG gold
>> >basically involves waving a bar of gold over the plating tank and
>> >hoping some gold atoms fall off.  The board house I use deposits a
>> >thicker layer than most.   You don't want to know what "hard gold"
>> >finish would cost.
>> >
>> >Using a PCB house to fab them is probably 20 times less expensive
>than
>> >having a machine shop do them out of solid copper... maybe 50 times
>> >less if you need to get them gold plated.
>> >___
>> >volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
>> >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>> >and follow the instructions there.
>> >
>> >___
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>> >and follow the instructions there.
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>> and follow the instructions there.
>>
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Randy Evans]

I believe that the Fluke shorting system has 3/4" spacing both vertically
and horizontally, which is not compatible with the 3458 (I couldn't find a
spec but visually it looks identically in both dimensions in the photos).
The 3458 spacing is slightly greater than 3/4' horizontally.

On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 10:14 AM, Rob Klein <rob.kl...@smalldesign.nl> wrote:

> You gentlemen are aware that these things are available from Fluke at a
> fairly reasonable price?
>
> http://nl.farnell.com/fluke/fluke-884x-short/lead-test-4-
> wire-fluke-884x-short/dp/1274092
>
>
> ⁣Met vriendelijke groet,
> Rob Klein
>
> verstuurd vanaf mijn smartphone​
>
> Op 9 nov. 2017 14:12, om 14:12, "David C. Partridge" <
> david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk> schreef:
> >Mark
> >
> >I'm trying to imagine what you are describing - is this PCBs with 4mm
> >banana plugs installed or a small PCB with two slots at 3/4" centres to
> >match the socket spacing?
> >
> >If the latter is this intended to cover just two sockets or to short
> >all four Force and Sense sockets together (if arranged like a 3458A)?
> >
> >Thanks
> >Dave
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> >Sims
> >Sent: 09 November 2017 02:14
> >To: volt-nuts@febo.com
> >Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps
> >
> >The main use of these would be shorting sense to drive jacks.  They
> >could also be used for input shorts.  The advantage over bare copper
> >would be the ENIG gold finish... bare copper quickly forms oxide layers
> >and copper oxide has a horrible thermal EMF.  Granted, ENIG gold
> >basically involves waving a bar of gold over the plating tank and
> >hoping some gold atoms fall off.  The board house I use deposits a
> >thicker layer than most.   You don't want to know what "hard gold"
> >finish would cost.
> >
> >Using a PCB house to fab them is probably 20 times less expensive than
> >having a machine shop do them out of solid copper... maybe 50 times
> >less if you need to get them gold plated.
> >___
> >volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to
> >https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
> >and follow the instructions there.
> >
> >___
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Rob Klein]

You gentlemen are aware that these things are available from Fluke at a fairly 
reasonable price?

http://nl.farnell.com/fluke/fluke-884x-short/lead-test-4-wire-fluke-884x-short/dp/1274092


⁣Met vriendelijke groet,
Rob Klein

verstuurd vanaf mijn smartphone​

Op 9 nov. 2017 14:12, om 14:12, "David C. Partridge" 
<david.partri...@perdrix.co.uk> schreef:
>Mark 
>
>I'm trying to imagine what you are describing - is this PCBs with 4mm
>banana plugs installed or a small PCB with two slots at 3/4" centres to
>match the socket spacing?
>
>If the latter is this intended to cover just two sockets or to short
>all four Force and Sense sockets together (if arranged like a 3458A)?
>
>Thanks
>Dave
>
>-Original Message-
>From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark
>Sims
>Sent: 09 November 2017 02:14
>To: volt-nuts@febo.com
>Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps
>
>The main use of these would be shorting sense to drive jacks.  They
>could also be used for input shorts.  The advantage over bare copper
>would be the ENIG gold finish... bare copper quickly forms oxide layers
>and copper oxide has a horrible thermal EMF.  Granted, ENIG gold
>basically involves waving a bar of gold over the plating tank and
>hoping some gold atoms fall off.  The board house I use deposits a
>thicker layer than most.   You don't want to know what "hard gold"
>finish would cost.
>
>Using a PCB house to fab them is probably 20 times less expensive than
>having a machine shop do them out of solid copper... maybe 50 times
>less if you need to get them gold plated.
>___
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>https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
>and follow the instructions there.
>
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[David C. Partridge]

Mark 

I'm trying to imagine what you are describing - is this PCBs with 4mm banana 
plugs installed or a small PCB with two slots at 3/4" centres to match the 
socket spacing?

If the latter is this intended to cover just two sockets or to short all four 
Force and Sense sockets together (if arranged like a 3458A)?

Thanks
Dave

-Original Message-
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sims
Sent: 09 November 2017 02:14
To: volt-nuts@febo.com
Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

The main use of these would be shorting sense to drive jacks.  They could also 
be used for input shorts.  The advantage over bare copper would be the ENIG 
gold finish... bare copper quickly forms oxide layers and copper oxide has a 
horrible thermal EMF.  Granted, ENIG gold basically involves waving a bar of 
gold over the plating tank and hoping some gold atoms fall off.  The board 
house I use deposits a thicker layer than most.   You don't want to know what 
"hard gold" finish would cost.

Using a PCB house to fab them is probably 20 times less expensive than having a 
machine shop do them out of solid copper... maybe 50 times less if you need to 
get them gold plated.
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[volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Mark Sims]

The main use of these would be shorting sense to drive jacks.  They could also 
be used for input shorts.  The advantage over bare copper would be the ENIG 
gold finish... bare copper quickly forms oxide layers and copper oxide has a 
horrible thermal EMF.  Granted, ENIG gold basically involves waving a bar of 
gold over the plating tank and hoping some gold atoms fall off.  The board 
house I use deposits a thicker layer than most.   You don't want to know what 
"hard gold" finish would cost.

Using a PCB house to fab them is probably 20 times less expensive than having a 
machine shop do them out of solid copper... maybe 50 times less if you need to 
get them gold plated.
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[John Allen]

Tonight please.  J

PS: I am flat broke and scared shitless.

-Original Message-
From: volt-nuts [mailto:volt-nuts-boun...@febo.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Nichols
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 8:57 PM
To: Discussion of precise voltage measurement
Subject: Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

Previous <http://jokes.cc.com/funny-god/4028vq/incredible-confession>Next
<http://jokes.cc.com/funny-god/rltky3/greg-giraldo--on-islam>

Did you hear about the dyslexic, agnostic insomniac?

He stayed up all night wondering if there was a dog.



On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 2:20 PM Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Recently on EEVBLOG there was a thread where a guy mentioned that he was
> going to machine some shorting bars for banana jack out of copper.   I made
> the suggestion to gold plate them to avoid copper oxide issue.  Another guy
> mentioned making them like a PCB (like Fluke does).
>
> I did a little thinking and checking and am going to have some built.
> Probably 0.8 .. 1mm FR4 core, 15x35 mm, double sided 2 oz copper,  ENIG
> gold finish.   Anybody interested in some?   Fab cost goes down rather
> quickly with quantity.  Cost target is maybe $10 for 10 pieces shipped.
> OSHPARK cost would be around $5 for three boards on 1.6mm, 1 oz copper.
> ___
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Jeremy Nichols]

Previous Next


Did you hear about the dyslexic, agnostic insomniac?

He stayed up all night wondering if there was a dog.



On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 2:20 PM Mark Sims  wrote:

> Recently on EEVBLOG there was a thread where a guy mentioned that he was
> going to machine some shorting bars for banana jack out of copper.   I made
> the suggestion to gold plate them to avoid copper oxide issue.  Another guy
> mentioned making them like a PCB (like Fluke does).
>
> I did a little thinking and checking and am going to have some built.
> Probably 0.8 .. 1mm FR4 core, 15x35 mm, double sided 2 oz copper,  ENIG
> gold finish.   Anybody interested in some?   Fab cost goes down rather
> quickly with quantity.  Cost target is maybe $10 for 10 pieces shipped.
> OSHPARK cost would be around $5 for three boards on 1.6mm, 1 oz copper.
> ___
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>
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Eric Garner]

What is the advantage of doing it as a PCB?

-Eric

On Nov 8, 2017 4:14 PM, "randyevans2688" <randyevans2...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Mark,
> I would be interested in 2, one at a minimum.
> Randy Evans
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone
>
>  Original message 
> From: Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com>
> Date: 11/8/17  2:20 PM  (GMT-08:00)
> To: volt-nuts@febo.com
> Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps
>
> Recently on EEVBLOG there was a thread where a guy mentioned that he was
> going to machine some shorting bars for banana jack out of copper.   I made
> the suggestion to gold plate them to avoid copper oxide issue.  Another guy
> mentioned making them like a PCB (like Fluke does).
>
> I did a little thinking and checking and am going to have some built.
> Probably 0.8 .. 1mm FR4 core, 15x35 mm, double sided 2 oz copper,  ENIG
> gold finish.   Anybody interested in some?   Fab cost goes down rather
> quickly with quantity.  Cost target is maybe $10 for 10 pieces shipped.
> OSHPARK cost would be around $5 for three boards on 1.6mm, 1 oz copper.
> ___
> volt-nuts mailing list -- volt-nuts@febo.com
> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/
> mailman/listinfo/volt-nuts
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Re: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[randyevans2688]

Mark,
I would be interested in 2, one at a minimum.
Randy Evans


Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message 
From: Mark Sims <hol...@hotmail.com> 
Date: 11/8/17  2:20 PM  (GMT-08:00) 
To: volt-nuts@febo.com 
Subject: [volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps 

Recently on EEVBLOG there was a thread where a guy mentioned that he was going 
to machine some shorting bars for banana jack out of copper.   I made the 
suggestion to gold plate them to avoid copper oxide issue.  Another guy 
mentioned making them like a PCB (like Fluke does).

I did a little thinking and checking and am going to have some built.  Probably 
0.8 .. 1mm FR4 core, 15x35 mm, double sided 2 oz copper,  ENIG gold finish.   
Anybody interested in some?   Fab cost goes down rather quickly with quantity.  
Cost target is maybe $10 for 10 pieces shipped.    OSHPARK cost would be around 
$5 for three boards on 1.6mm, 1 oz copper.
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[volt-nuts] Banana jack shorting straps

[Mark Sims]

Recently on EEVBLOG there was a thread where a guy mentioned that he was going 
to machine some shorting bars for banana jack out of copper.   I made the 
suggestion to gold plate them to avoid copper oxide issue.  Another guy 
mentioned making them like a PCB (like Fluke does).

I did a little thinking and checking and am going to have some built.  Probably 
0.8 .. 1mm FR4 core, 15x35 mm, double sided 2 oz copper,  ENIG gold finish.   
Anybody interested in some?   Fab cost goes down rather quickly with quantity.  
Cost target is maybe $10 for 10 pieces shipped.OSHPARK cost would be around 
$5 for three boards on 1.6mm, 1 oz copper.
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