Re: [Vo]: Boswell windless turbine...
In reply to Stephen A. Lawrence's message of Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:28:10 -0400: Hi, [snip] As to harvesting the altitude voltage differential (as a third power source), I'm not sure how much power is available there. Lots of volts, but not sure of the capacity. Anybody know? I'm not sure whether you mean power capacity or capacitance, but the potential power output is more important IMO, and last time I worked it out based upon the fair weather current I came to about 500 MW. Others will get somewhat different numbers, but it's not a lot. I'm also afraid you might find you needed a really whopping big kite to produce a low enough resistance coupling to the air, conductivity of air being what it is (vanishingly small). This can in theory be improved by painting the wings with a mildly radioactive substance that ionizes the air around them. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website
From Jed: See: http://superwavefusion.com/ One of the best video promotional pieces I've seen in a long time - presented in stereo too. The presentation of the theory sounds plausible to me. It's my understanding that the idea of using super waves has been explored by start-ups. What does the Vort Collective think? Is there reason to remain hopeful, or is this just, well, another dog and pony show? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:promoting CF
From Mike Carrell: Valuable comments regarding the work of Jed, Ed, and Steve Krivit deleted here. ... ... There should be a 60 Minutes story from ICCF-14; a TV crew was there covering the first day. There has been goverment support from the Navy and DARPA. Is that true? I would love to see a 60 Minutes story come out on this subject. I was wondering when they were going to get around to it. Guess it's all about timing, isn't it. ;-) The burning question is: How will 60 Minutes handle the subject, especially the conclusion. You KNOW there will be significant condensation of the subject material. Will the scientists and researchers who have been toiling away for twenty years get the final say, or will 60 Minutes leave it to Park to sum it all up for the masses. My gut feeling suggests that 60 Minutes will produce a generally positive article. I suspect they will cite years of controversy, the unsuccessful attempts by CF researchers to get their work recognized, published and funded. I suspect they will cite how the system has generally worked against most CF researchers, particularly during this dire time in our country's history when all forms of alternative energy should be seriously explored. That's what 60 minutes does best: Produce controversial articles, where blatant injustices become obvious even to individuals with no better than sixth grade educations. It doesn't make sense from my POV that 60 Minutes would care to produce an article on CF - unless the producers felt there actually was something legitimate going on here, and more to the point, that what is going on is being purposely ignored. My two cents. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website
This is an impressive website and an impressive program, which shows what can be accomplished by a well funded effort run by competent people. It also shows the damage skeptics have done by stopping such progress from taking place all over the world earlier in the field's history. Ed On Mar 13, 2009, at 8:59 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: See: http://superwavefusion.com/
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Type A palladium
Edmund Storms wrote: On Mar 13, 2009, at 8:36 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: ARRGH! How can everything in this field be so *vague* !? If I read the messages from Jed and Dr. Storms correctly, it's not known at this time whether PF used pure palladium, or used a Pd/Ag alloy. That doesn't seem like a trivial difference! The fact is that F-P used both pure Pd and the Pd-Ag alloy. However,they did not say and frequently did not know how the Pd they used was made. They made a deal with Johnson and Matthey to supply the Pd for free and J-M decided what to send for testing. Apparently, J-M knows what kind of Pd works best, but attempts to get this information made public have failed. It is interesting to note that, if J-M knows what kind works best, then they also know that there are differences which result solely from the choice of palladium, and therefore they also know with dead certainty that cold fusion is for real. If the effect weren't real it wouldn't matter what kind of palladium you used. Later workers used Pd from various sources and found that some batches worked better than others, but did not have the resources to test all of the properties that might be relevant. Later still, the role of cracking and the role of surface deposits became known. Until recently, no one had the resources to make tests that could identify the critical parameters. Therefore, the information simply is not known. We know now that the Pd needs have a characteristic that allows a high D/Pd ratio. This is not easy to accomplish although Italian workers have now mastered the trick. The Pd-Ag alloy cannot achieve such a high ratio and, therefore, should not work. Peachy. This sounds kind of like the occasional light-water positive CF result which seem to throw monkeywrenches into the works of just about any theory of how it all works, eh? To further complicate the problem, Pd electroplated on various substrates is also found to work sometimes for no apparat reason. The problem is not public documentation but simple ignorance about what characteristics are required. People are not hiding this information, they just do not know what is required. Ed It's as though Dr. Jekyll not only couldn't get a working batch of the reagent that would change him back from being Hyde, but he'd forgotten what the compound was that he ordered the one time he got a batch that did work. It does seem like Jed's right -- the level of public documentation here is lacking. It *ought* to be possible to just pull paper number 12321-PF from the Lenr-Canr archives and see for sure what was used. But, apparently it's not that easy. Jed Rothwell wrote: Edmund Storms wrote: Thanks for this detail Jed, but no where do I see mentioned that this material is a Pd-Ag alloy. That is my recollection of what he told me. This document says Fleischmann reported success with pure palladium, as well as silver and cerium alloys. As I recall he said Type A is the silver alloy used in filters. We could ask J-M if they ever used pure Pd in filters. I doubt they did. My guess is that the modern reformulated filter palladium would work just as well as the old stuff. My guess is that the reason it works is prosaic: it loads to high levels easily and it does not crack. Those are well known necessary characteristics to achieve cold fusion. Why they are necessary I do not know, but they are. I see that I managed to misspell his name in this document. Good grief! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Type A palladium
On Mar 14, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: Edmund Storms wrote: On Mar 13, 2009, at 8:36 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: ARRGH! How can everything in this field be so *vague* !? If I read the messages from Jed and Dr. Storms correctly, it's not known at this time whether PF used pure palladium, or used a Pd/Ag alloy. That doesn't seem like a trivial difference! The fact is that F-P used both pure Pd and the Pd-Ag alloy. However,they did not say and frequently did not know how the Pd they used was made. They made a deal with Johnson and Matthey to supply the Pd for free and J-M decided what to send for testing. Apparently, J-M knows what kind of Pd works best, but attempts to get this information made public have failed. It is interesting to note that, if J-M knows what kind works best, then they also know that there are differences which result solely from the choice of palladium, and therefore they also know with dead certainty that cold fusion is for real. If the effect weren't real it wouldn't matter what kind of palladium you used. Good point and this is probably why they are unwilling to give away the information. I expect they are waiting until the effect is accepted and people are interested in buying the active material, or they are just stupid because by then people will know how to make their own active Pd. Later workers used Pd from various sources and found that some batches worked better than others, but did not have the resources to test all of the properties that might be relevant. Later still, the role of cracking and the role of surface deposits became known. Until recently, no one had the resources to make tests that could identify the critical parameters. Therefore, the information simply is not known. We know now that the Pd needs have a characteristic that allows a high D/Pd ratio. This is not easy to accomplish although Italian workers have now mastered the trick. The Pd-Ag alloy cannot achieve such a high ratio and, therefore, should not work. Peachy. This sounds kind of like the occasional light-water positive CF result which seem to throw monkeywrenches into the works of just about any theory of how it all works, eh? The explanation for why Pd-Ag works involves the assumption that the effect only occurs in the near surface region, the properties of which are much different from the bulk material because of reaction with Li and other impurities in the electrolyte. Pd-Ag alloy allows a higher surface composition to be achieved because the diffusion rate from the surface is slower than in pure Pd. Pure Pd has to have a structure that allows a high bulk composition to reduce the loss from the surface in order to achieve the same high D/Pd ratio on the surface. Anyway, this is my explanation, which shows the complexity of trying to reproduce the effect. Ed To further complicate the problem, Pd electroplated on various substrates is also found to work sometimes for no apparat reason. The problem is not public documentation but simple ignorance about what characteristics are required. People are not hiding this information, they just do not know what is required. Ed It's as though Dr. Jekyll not only couldn't get a working batch of the reagent that would change him back from being Hyde, but he'd forgotten what the compound was that he ordered the one time he got a batch that did work. It does seem like Jed's right -- the level of public documentation here is lacking. It *ought* to be possible to just pull paper number 12321-PF from the Lenr-Canr archives and see for sure what was used. But, apparently it's not that easy. Jed Rothwell wrote: Edmund Storms wrote: Thanks for this detail Jed, but no where do I see mentioned that this material is a Pd-Ag alloy. That is my recollection of what he told me. This document says Fleischmann reported success with pure palladium, as well as silver and cerium alloys. As I recall he said Type A is the silver alloy used in filters. We could ask J-M if they ever used pure Pd in filters. I doubt they did. My guess is that the modern reformulated filter palladium would work just as well as the old stuff. My guess is that the reason it works is prosaic: it loads to high levels easily and it does not crack. Those are well known necessary characteristics to achieve cold fusion. Why they are necessary I do not know, but they are. I see that I managed to misspell his name in this document. Good grief! - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Type A palladium
Edmund Storms wrote: They made a deal with Johnson and Matthey to supply the Pd for free and J-M decided what to send for testing. Plus, when FP were at Toyota, the deal was that they sent the used cathodes back to J-M without testing them. J-M did their own in-house analysis. J-M and Toyota failed to reach an agreement about how the information should be shared. Apparently, J-M knows what kind of Pd works best, but attempts to get this information made public have failed. Right. I have heard this from well-informed people . Not only do they know, but they have known all along (because the same characteristics are ideal for filters, as I said). Long before work began on cold fusion they knew how to make the ideal material. The Italians and many others have spent the last 20 years trying to figure out what people at J-M have known since the 1930s. I find this extremely frustrating, to say the least. Until recently, no one had the resources to make tests that could identify the critical parameters. Therefore, the information simply is not known. Not known outside of J-M, that is. People are not hiding this information, they just do not know what is required. Well, J-M is hiding this information. Other organizations such as Toyota are hiding critical experimental data. I am not hiding any information about cold fusion, but I do have to limit my remarks and not say who told me about the disagreements between J-M and Toyota, and the fact that various companies have experimental data that I would love to upload. I am certain that the people at J-M know cold fusion is real. Either that or they are insane. At least I can say with certainty that some of the people at J-M I have spoken with know this as well as I do. I cannot imagine why they have not pursued this technology. I cannot think of any reason why they would hesitate. But large corporations often do pass up fabulous opportunities for reasons that later seem absurd. IBM, HP and others built capable little computers in the 1970s, at about the time Apple computer was formed and before Tandy (Radio Shack) began selling computers. I saw the IBM machine around 1978, on display in the old Atlanta airport, of all places. It might have been this one, the 5110: http://www.old-computers.com/history/detail.asp?n=9t=3 (Anyway, there were several machines similar to that from large companies in those days.) Of course the opportunity that J-M may be passing up is several orders of magnitude larger than the personal computer market! If they had developed cold fusion over the last 20 years and applied their metallurgical expertise to Ti, Ni and other common materials, they might have become the wealthiest corporation on earth by now, and by far the most profitable. Stephen A. Lawrence's comment about the level of public documentation here is lacking is on the mark. It gets worse. Not only is public documentation lacking, but a great deal of information that has been widely disseminated is flat-out wrong, or pure nonsense. Especially in places such as Wikipedia. Widespread confusion is the norm in newly emerging fields of science. Unfortunately, cold fusion is still emerging. Mallove gave a perfect example of this confusion in his book. Segre described the work of Hahn and Meitner as follows: Their early papers are a mixture of error and truth as complicated as the mixture of fission products resulting from the bombardments. Such confusion was to remain for long time a characteristic of much of the work on uranium. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:3D time
Jones and Terry sed mucho-ado about time: I suspect PAM Dirac would have enjoyed this topic of discussion. Probably - but do you have anything specific on Dirac and 3D time? Just that mass contracts (actually rotates in 3 space) with velocity in tsubx (observed time), maybe it expands in tsuby and remains stable in tsubz. This could explain where the negative energy resides and could also explain the nature of rotation of half integer spin particles. Definitely requires more cogitation. More later. Terry I must confess that I was lost within the complex topological folds of this discussion pretty much from the beginning. In the meantime while the Vort Collective continues to cogitate on the timeless matter may I offer the following distraction. A brand new MP3 composition from Yours Truly, just uploaded to my web site. Titled: Chronillogical Time http://orionworks.com/audio/ChronIllogicalTimeNormalizedSForgeNearCDQuality.mp3 http://tinyurl.com/btfm9k Duration: 1:33 Enjoy! Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:promoting CF
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 We have wasted 20 years. We have made essentially no progress trying to convince the establishment. You people are going to have to find out the hard way -- more than you already have, I mean -- that it is the capitalist establishment which is in fact your biggest obstacle. Unfortunately, most all of you are entirely wedded to supporting this system, whatever it costs you. There Is No Alternative, after all. - -- grok. - -- *** FULL-SPECTRUM DOMINANCE! *** * NO ONE LEFT BEHIND: Free all U.S. political prisoners! * * Question authority -- before authority questions you! * * http://www.freepeltier.org Leonard Peltier * * http://www.freethefive.orgCuban Five * * http://www.spiritoffreedom.org.uk/profiles/rob.html Rob los Ricos* * http://www.defenestrator.org/roblosricosRob los Ricos* * http://www.prisonactivist.org/angolaAngola 3 * * http://www.prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/pplist-alpha.shtml U.S. * * http://www.mumia.org Mumia Abu-Jamal ***Pol. Prisoners * ***Solidarity against the New McCarthyism*** GPG fingerprint = 2E7F 2D69 4B0B C8D5 07E3 09C3 5E8D C4B4 461B B771 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkm8G2wACgkQXo3EtEYbt3E2qgCeKj+d4Q4a9kB5pkMpIcdJG9Td a1oAn1QOXURc1zi2v60+rdziVcY1zHS8 =aHoU -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:I told you it was cold
OrionWorks wrote: Thomas sez: According to a news report I just heard, Minnesota had a record low for March 12 this morning in Embarass. Haven't you also agreed with the assessment that there is a warming trend occurring? Isn't the argument about who or what is causing the prolonged warming trend? The Sun has an eleven year cycle. We're now at the bottom, Solar Quiesence. Having this coincide with a very cold winter fits with the solar driven model. Ditto for Horner's contention that global temperature has been decreasing for the past eight years. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:Energetics Technology website
OrionWorks wrote: From Jed: http://superwavefusion.com/ What does the Vort Collective think? Is there reason to remain hopeful, or is this just, well, another dog and pony show? I think that the Super Wave Theory is great! I assume that it relates to the use of multiple harmonics. I've been fascinated with Dale Pond's research into the area, see svpvril.com . Does Super Wave's website go into that detail? --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:I told you it was cold
In reply to thomas malloy's message of Sat, 14 Mar 2009 18:46:59 -0500 (CDT): Hi, [snip] The Sun has an eleven year cycle. We're now at the bottom, Solar Quiesence. Having this coincide with a very cold winter fits with the solar driven model. Ditto for Horner's contention that global temperature has been decreasing for the past eight years. [snip] Correct, however the Solar cycle is probably not the only influence. AGW probably plays a significant role as well. IOW you need to compare a whole series of solar minima, to see if there is a rising trend. (The Solar cycle can be expected to superimpose a sine wave on the trend.) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:promoting CF
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:00:02 -0600: Hi, [snip] A problem exists with respect to Type A Pd, which is claimed to be used for gas purification. However, only the Pd075Ag25 alloy is used for this purpose because this alloy, unlike pure Pd, does not crack upon reacting with H2. Nevertheless, Fleischmann claimed the Type A is pure Pd. The Pd in the hydrogen generator used by BARC was the Pd-Ag alloy. Fleischman also used cathodes identified as being the Pd-Ag alloy and claimed good success. The confusion lies in what Type A Pd is really made of. Ed I wonder if the lack of cracking is the reason it worked, or perhaps it had more to do with the presence of Silver. Has anyone tried a pure Silver cathode? (Much cheaper than Pd. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:promoting CF
My belief is that the Pd-Ag works because it is able to support a high D/Pd at the surface because the diffusion rate is lower than pure Pd. Also, it does not crack. I have tried pure silver, but it does not absorb D. Ed On Mar 14, 2009, at 8:12 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Fri, 13 Mar 2009 15:00:02 -0600: Hi, [snip] A problem exists with respect to Type A Pd, which is claimed to be used for gas purification. However, only the Pd075Ag25 alloy is used for this purpose because this alloy, unlike pure Pd, does not crack upon reacting with H2. Nevertheless, Fleischmann claimed the Type A is pure Pd. The Pd in the hydrogen generator used by BARC was the Pd-Ag alloy. Fleischman also used cathodes identified as being the Pd-Ag alloy and claimed good success. The confusion lies in what Type A Pd is really made of. Ed I wonder if the lack of cracking is the reason it worked, or perhaps it had more to do with the presence of Silver. Has anyone tried a pure Silver cathode? (Much cheaper than Pd. ;) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Type A palladium
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:47:37 -0400: Hi, [snip] Right. I have heard this from well-informed people . Not only do they know, but they have known all along (because the same characteristics are ideal for filters, as I said). Long before work began on cold fusion they knew how to make the ideal material. The Italians and many others have spent the last 20 years trying to figure out what people at J-M have known since the 1930s. I find this extremely frustrating, to say the least. Maybe the info is in an old JM patent? Anyone feel like doing some hunting? Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Notes on Type A palladium
In reply to Jed Rothwell's message of Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:47:37 -0400: Hi, [snip] I cannot imagine why they have not pursued this technology. I cannot think of any reason why they would hesitate. [snip] Perhaps they have tried, and have never been able to get more than trivial excess heat out of it, so they figured it wasn't worth it. Of course, this is just speculation, but it would make sense out of their behaviour. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:promoting CF
In reply to Edmund Storms's message of Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:01:03 -0600: Hi, [snip] My belief is that the Pd-Ag works because it is able to support a high D/Pd at the surface because the diffusion rate is lower than pure Pd. Also, it does not crack. I have tried pure silver, but it does not absorb D. ...and apparently doesn't produce excess heat either, or you would have said so. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
