Re: [Vo]:The melting miracle
I had that weird thought too that the reactor might be generating microwave radiation and heating the water... Tin foil hat time again On Friday, January 2, 2015, Ken Deboer barlaz...@gmail.com wrote: Regarding the 'shell' of various LENR reactors, I wonder if someone could recap or comment on what the history has been and what some of the considerations and rational were behind them. Most reactors have been built around steel if I'm not mistaken, and some of glass. The new Rossi model is of alumina and I wonder what led him to that? Also, someone a good while back, Jones I think, mentioned about maybe silicon carbide having some beneficial features (electrical or electromagnetic?). People have mused about what kinds of physical or geometric, micro or macro, configurations might help, and all this seems to me to be of value. I also had another wild (dangerous!) thought- heating by microwave? cheers, ken On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','frobertc...@hotmail.com'); wrote: I think the size of the nano Ni is important in creating resonant conditions to support LENR reactions in a magnetic field. This may include cavity sizes. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Nick javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','nix...@ameritech.net'); *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','vortex-l@eskimo.com'); *Sent:* Thursday, January 01, 2015 6:06 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The melting miracle I’m way out of my zone of expertise here, as a speaker builder/designer, I am familiar with resonant frequencies of boxes, cavities, or spaces. Has the possibility that Rossi is optimizing the reactor design so the reactor cavity resonates at specific frequencies? Has this been considered? We’ve all seen the YouTube videos that show how powdered materials dance and move in patterns when subjected to strong fields of acoustic energy at varying frequencies. Acoustic waves can levitate heavy objects, is it not possible that such an effect could keep the powder mix in a turbulent and evenly distributed state even when at high temperatures? The sintering seen afterward could be taking place when the device is powered down and the fuel mix settles to the bottom, no longer being agitated. I realize I don’t have the background to tell you much of anything that you do not already know in this discussion, but I have not seen the subject addressed, at least not that I can recall. The differing pressures and temperatures inside the active vessel would alter these figures significantly I'm sure, but these such factors could be addressed and managed. A link about this here, http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/cavity.html#c1 Resonance of a Coke Bottle, http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/coke.html#c1 Nixter On Thursday, January 1, 2015 4:08 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','janap...@gmail.com'); wrote: As I have stated in another thread: Doing science inside the dog bone can be like doing science inside another universe. There is no certainty that physics or chemistry works that same inside the a functioning dog bone as it does in the real world. Maybe different physical rules apply. On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','eric.wal...@gmail.com'); wrote: On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','janap...@gmail.com'); wrote: I am interested in what keeps the Rossi micro powder from sintering/melting at high surface temperatures when the reactor is in operation. We call this weird behavior the melting miracle. This is an interesting question. If the same internal/external temperature gradient was in effect in the Lugano test as seen in the MFMP dogbone calibrations (at the higher temperatures, a delta T of 330 C [1]), we're left with some weird possibilities to sort through: - the temperature calculated for the outside of the Lugano E-Cat was significantly lower than 1400. - the nickel in the volume of the core of the Lugano reactor was not subject to the same amount of heat across the length of the core, and the nickel extracted for the isotope assays was from an area that maintained a temperature below the point of the complete melting point of nickel. - the outside temperature of the Lugano reactor was as reported, and the nickel in the core vaporized and then recrystallized when the temperature was still high towards the end of the test, resulting in a partially sintered appearance, while somehow maintaining an isotope gradient. - other possibilities? I do not know what unsintered nickel looks like, so it is hard for me to get a sense of where along the spectrum the nickel in the images taken from the Lugano assays was. Eric [1]
Re: [Vo]:The melting miracle
Regarding the 'shell' of various LENR reactors, I wonder if someone could recap or comment on what the history has been and what some of the considerations and rational were behind them. Most reactors have been built around steel if I'm not mistaken, and some of glass. The new Rossi model is of alumina and I wonder what led him to that? Also, someone a good while back, Jones I think, mentioned about maybe silicon carbide having some beneficial features (electrical or electromagnetic?). People have mused about what kinds of physical or geometric, micro or macro, configurations might help, and all this seems to me to be of value. I also had another wild (dangerous!) thought- heating by microwave? cheers, ken On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: I think the size of the nano Ni is important in creating resonant conditions to support LENR reactions in a magnetic field. This may include cavity sizes. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Nick nix...@ameritech.net *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Thursday, January 01, 2015 6:06 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The melting miracle I’m way out of my zone of expertise here, as a speaker builder/designer, I am familiar with resonant frequencies of boxes, cavities, or spaces. Has the possibility that Rossi is optimizing the reactor design so the reactor cavity resonates at specific frequencies? Has this been considered? We’ve all seen the YouTube videos that show how powdered materials dance and move in patterns when subjected to strong fields of acoustic energy at varying frequencies. Acoustic waves can levitate heavy objects, is it not possible that such an effect could keep the powder mix in a turbulent and evenly distributed state even when at high temperatures? The sintering seen afterward could be taking place when the device is powered down and the fuel mix settles to the bottom, no longer being agitated. I realize I don’t have the background to tell you much of anything that you do not already know in this discussion, but I have not seen the subject addressed, at least not that I can recall. The differing pressures and temperatures inside the active vessel would alter these figures significantly I'm sure, but these such factors could be addressed and managed. A link about this here, http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/cavity.html#c1 Resonance of a Coke Bottle, http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/waves/coke.html#c1 Nixter On Thursday, January 1, 2015 4:08 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: As I have stated in another thread: Doing science inside the dog bone can be like doing science inside another universe. There is no certainty that physics or chemistry works that same inside the a functioning dog bone as it does in the real world. Maybe different physical rules apply. On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 4:48 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 12:58 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: I am interested in what keeps the Rossi micro powder from sintering/melting at high surface temperatures when the reactor is in operation. We call this weird behavior the melting miracle. This is an interesting question. If the same internal/external temperature gradient was in effect in the Lugano test as seen in the MFMP dogbone calibrations (at the higher temperatures, a delta T of 330 C [1]), we're left with some weird possibilities to sort through: - the temperature calculated for the outside of the Lugano E-Cat was significantly lower than 1400. - the nickel in the volume of the core of the Lugano reactor was not subject to the same amount of heat across the length of the core, and the nickel extracted for the isotope assays was from an area that maintained a temperature below the point of the complete melting point of nickel. - the outside temperature of the Lugano reactor was as reported, and the nickel in the core vaporized and then recrystallized when the temperature was still high towards the end of the test, resulting in a partially sintered appearance, while somehow maintaining an isotope gradient. - other possibilities? I do not know what unsintered nickel looks like, so it is hard for me to get a sense of where along the spectrum the nickel in the images taken from the Lugano assays was. Eric [1] http://www.e-catworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/DogboneDec30.jpg
RE: [Vo]:The melting miracle
From: Ken Deboer Ø Regarding the 'shell' of various LENR reactors, I wonder if someone could recap or comment on what the history has been and what some of the considerations and rational were behind them. Most reactors have been built around steel if I'm not mistaken, and some of glass. The new Rossi model is of alumina and I wonder what led him to that? In his eulogy to Focardi, Rossi mentioned the “eureka” moment where the two of them the discovered the hot-cat principle. This happened when they were using the nearly abandoned ENEA nuclear lab at Brasimone, Italy. This would be the rough equivalent of Oak Ridge in the USA on a much smaller scale. They tried several types of ceramic tubes at the Lab for purposes of high temperature experiment. The tubes had been used for plumbing in the Italian liquid fuel fission reactor RD. That program had been abandoned by this time, and they essentially borrowed the Lab and the tubes. Previously, I had thought that the SiC tubes were more important for the success of the hot cat than the alumina tubes, and that is because of the monochromatic IR spectrum of SiC - but now it appears to be that alumina is more important - and this could related to porosity…. Some of the story is here: http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/06/22/sergio-focardi-dies/ BTW - Rossi was not relating this as an idle story. It was part of his tribute to Focardi, and AR was intending to show by anecdote the high level connections of Focardi within ENEA, where he was greatly respected. They had free reign to the lab. Rossi removed this story from his own site, apparently - maybe it gave away too much information… or maybe he thought he would face a problem with the Italian justice system or WIPO - if it became known how they had made the discovery, using a restricted National Lab for personal purposes. By the way, since the original hot-cat has both SiC and alumina tubes, and since its performance was actually better than what was seen at Lugano --- if Rossi can be believed --- then it is possibly that the best tactic for improving on the dogbone would be to go back to the earlier work and combine the best features of both. HOWEVER, that should not happen until one of two further replications of the dogbone have happened. There are some who do not trust the Russians, and particularly the University of Parkhomov (which was formerly a propaganda tool). Jones
[Vo]:Judgement deadline for CFsn 1/1/2015
Claim CFsn - Cold Fusion http://ideosphere.com/fx-bin/Claim?claim=CFsn Category: *Science Technology:Physics*bid 0, ask 2, last 2Owner:0, Bank ( i...@ideosphere.com)Judge:306, SMWinnie (smwin...@yahoo.com)created: 1994/09/23due date:TBDThe Claim Cold fusion of deuterium in palladium can produce over 10 watts/cc. net power at STP (standard temperature and pressure). Cold fusion is discussed on the fusion newsgroup news:sci.physics.fusion. Judge's Statement Judgment will be entered on CFsn on or before January 1, 2015. I will judge based on the intent of this claim, if I perceive such intent to be obvious. If such intent is ambiguous I will judge on the basis of the precise wording. If both are ambiguous, I will look for a solution which follows IF/FX precedent insofar as such precedent is apparent to me and applicable to the claim. I will seek the guidance of the claim's owner/author in interpreting the claim. It's his or her question - s/he ought to get the answer sought. If I believe this claim to have met a YES or NO condition, and if I believe judgement will be controversial, I will post a prospective judgement to fx-discuss and forestall entering the judgement for a comment period to be announced in the post.
[Vo]:who can lead a LENR+ dialog?
Please read first Georgina's nice post of today, because what I say here: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2015/01/shared-lenr-ideas-january-2-2015.html is rather sad and unpleasant. It is also real, but this makes the situation worse. Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
[Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogboneRe:
Does any1 have the GOOGLE+ Hangout URL? ... Thnx From: a.ashfield Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 3:03 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogboneRe: The second test is under way. Temperature currently over 400C https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=IQlqzLzQDUA
Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone
Ya' gotta love the 21st century. This seems kind of pointless. Why not read the data a week later? Still, it is fun! The technical chatter makes it sound like NASA. Impressive! I wish Arthur Clarke had lived to see this. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogboneRe:
The second test is under way. Temperature currently over 400C https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embeddedv=IQlqzLzQDUA
[Vo]:live - grr... dogbone
Not much happening, but 95 viewers are tuned in.
[Vo]:Porosity vs.Purity
CB Sites wrote: * Just doing a search, here is an article discussing hydrogen permeation of Alumina at high temperatures. http://www.academia.edu/7323157/GAS_PERMEATION_PROPERTIES_OF_HYDROGEN_PERMEABLE_MACROPOROUS_ALUMINA_CERAMIC_MEMBRANES_AT_HIGH_TEMPERATURE * Of course this is about porous alumina membranes to purify hydrogen, but the effects of high temperature may apply to alumina in general porous or non-porous. For future reference, there is a semantics problem which turned up yesterday, which cannot be easily resolved since it goes back to the manufacturer: purity vs porosity. Sorry that I did not pick up on this sooner. As for present needs, it would be interesting to characterize the tubes of Rossi and Parkhomov in the context of the CoorsTek tube for hydrogen permeability. There could be a major difference and surprisingly - “more porosity” could be needed for success. Here’s why. We can see from the famous image of the dogbone on a gram scale, that the net weight is 450+ grams. Take away the end caps and resistance wire and we could be seeing a tube that weighs about 250 grams. The MFMP used a high purity tube that would be almost impermeable to hydrogen, but the typical sintered alumina tube, with a density of 3.65 g/cc (as opposed to 3.9 for pure) could have uniform voids which are in the subnanometer geometry. In fact the voids in 250 grams of could in theory retain almost all of the hydrogen from the sub gram of fuel after only a few hours of operation! This gets us to the “purity” vs. “density” issue – where we have a semantic problem – since the specifications used by manufacturers are not uniform. You can see from this tube on eBay - which is 99.5% “pure” that its density is only 3.6 g/cc. The full density of alumina is 3.95 g/cc so this tube has voids of over 8% of its theoretical full density, and this is one of the best. We can call the difference “porosity” or nanoporosity, for lack of a better term. http://www.ebay.com/itm/6-LONG-HIGH-PURITY-ALUMINA-CERAMIC-TEST-TUBE-1-OD-0-75-ID-REFACTORY-/271722882427?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item3f43f2257b Other tubes which are well over 99% pure are nevertheless 9% voids – in the sense of porosoty, since these are different parameters. With hydrogen, the rate of permeability though 8-9% porosity, depending on pore size - would still be slow – but most importantly, an outer coating of cement, if it were to be impermeable to hydrogen – would trap much of the hydrogen within the nanopores or the walls of the tube. Fran Roarty must love this: hydrogen trapped in Casimir cavitites. BTW - the density of sapphire - which is fused by heat within metamorphic rock to gem quality is even higher: 3.98 g/cc! So the bottom line is that even high purity alumina will have substantial porosity unless it has been fused to full density. This will be around 8% and it will probably be nanoporosity based on small pore geometry. This nanoporosity is typically the meaning of “sintered alumina” as opposed to fused or polycrystalline (which is in between and fully translucent). More on nanoporosity later. Jones
Re: [Vo]:Re: The MFMP replication effort live on youtube.
Under certain conditions the fine structure constant has been found to differ from the regular value. On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 10:28 AM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Doing science inside the dog bone can be like doing science inside another universe. There is no certainty that physics or chemistry works that same inside the dog bone as it does in the real world. Maybe different physical rules apply. On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 4:07 PM, CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Just doing a search, here is an article discussing hydrogen permeation of Alumina at high temperatures. http://www.academia.edu/7323157/GAS_PERMEATION_PROPERTIES_OF_HYDROGEN_PERMEABLE_MACROPOROUS_ALUMINA_CERAMIC_MEMBRANES_AT_HIGH_TEMPERATURE Of course this is about porous alumina membranes to purify hydrogen, but the effects of high temperature may apply to alumina in general porous or non-porous. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 5:45 PM, James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com wrote: -- Forwarded message -- From: Randy Mills rmi...@blacklightpower.com [SocietyforClassicalPhysics] societyforclassicalphys...@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon, Dec 29, 2014 at 7:51 AM Subject: Re: [SocietyforClassicalPhysics] a mixture of nickel and lithium aluminum hydride To: societyforclassicalphys...@yahoogroups.com societyforclassicalphys...@yahoogroups.com ...I think that it is a mistake to use a hydrogen porous vessel for a hydrino reaction. On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 4:48 AM, pjvannoor...@caiway.nl wrote: Probably at that temperature the hydrogen will leak very fast through the cell even if it is sealed properly Peter v Noorden *From:* Bob Higgins rj.bob.higg...@gmail.com *Sent:* Wednesday, December 31, 2014 5:36 AM *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:The MFMP replication effort live on youtube. Based on analysis of Lugano and Parkhomov work, excess heat begins at about 950C. The MFMP dogbone core was measured to be over 1200C and no excess heat was found. The likely suspect is that the glue used to seal the reactor tube failed, allowing a leak of the H2 when the LiAlH4 decomposed. The experiment was shut down because going higher in temperature risked burnout of the dogbone heater coil and the excess heat should already have been seen at a lower temperature than the 1200C core temperature that was achieved. Ryan Hunt is going to try again. We will try to contact Parkhomov to ask what cement he used to seal his reactor. We are also looking at ways to test the seals that we make. Bob Higgins On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: CB Sites cbsit...@gmail.com wrote: Wow, Replication fails. They had the dog bone so hot the steel stand holding it was white hot. But power in was equal to power out. No radiation. I have a hunch that was too hot. As the proverbial shaggy dog was too shaggy, since we are using dog-related images here. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone
Lithium hydride does not decompose at 900C when the pressure is high. The pressure that is being read in this system must be a vapor state of LiH. It seems to me that pure dissociated hydrogen will be hard to come by in such a high pressure system. On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: I think it would be interesting to test a similar pressure transducer to the one that they are using to understand how it operates under a varying magnetic or electric fields. It may be that local conditions are affecting the transducer and are indicative of unexpected electric or magnetic conditions in the reactor. They may be caused by LENR or SPP formation or something unexpected. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Friday, January 02, 2015 5:09 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone I am glad to see that with 30% pressure swings indicated, the operator decided to at least wear a face mask. I think I heard that the tube was good for 1000 psi and they were getting indications of over 600 psi with large swings. It appeared they did not believe their pressure sensor. I think they should have a good bullet proof shield around the dog bone. I would worry about the integrity of an alumina pressure vessel. Is such material commonly used for pressure containing vessels at high temperatures and pressures? It seems they disconnected the pressure sensor at about 2 hrs. and 40 min. into the test, or at least discontinued the video of the signal. I hope they keep the pressure data that since it may be real. However, it would appear that it was correlated with heater power input. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Friday, January 02, 2015 4:52 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone Ya' gotta love the 21st century. This seems kind of pointless. Why not read the data a week later? Still, it is fun! The technical chatter makes it sound like NASA. Impressive! I wish Arthur Clarke had lived to see this. - Jed
[Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone
A dual coil eddy current pressure transducer is way more immune to magnetic field, radiation and noise, but costs $6k instead of the $500 one they have. It also can go to 580C or so, instead of 85C as this one, in use. - Mark Jurich From: Bob Cook Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 5:34 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone I think it would be interesting to test a similar pressure transducer to the one that they are using to understand how it operates under a varying magnetic or electric fields. It may be that local conditions are affecting the transducer and are indicative of unexpected electric or magnetic conditions in the reactor. They may be caused by LENR or SPP formation or something unexpected. Bob - Original Message - From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone I am glad to see that with 30% pressure swings indicated, the operator decided to at least wear a face mask. I think I heard that the tube was good for 1000 psi and they were getting indications of over 600 psi with large swings. It appeared they did not believe their pressure sensor. I think they should have a good bullet proof shield around the dog bone. I would worry about the integrity of an alumina pressure vessel. Is such material commonly used for pressure containing vessels at high temperatures and pressures? It seems they disconnected the pressure sensor at about 2 hrs. and 40 min. into the test, or at least discontinued the video of the signal. I hope they keep the pressure data that since it may be real. However, it would appear that it was correlated with heater power input. Bob - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone Ya' gotta love the 21st century. This seems kind of pointless. Why not read the data a week later? Still, it is fun! The technical chatter makes it sound like NASA. Impressive! I wish Arthur Clarke had lived to see this. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone
I think it would be interesting to test a similar pressure transducer to the one that they are using to understand how it operates under a varying magnetic or electric fields. It may be that local conditions are affecting the transducer and are indicative of unexpected electric or magnetic conditions in the reactor. They may be caused by LENR or SPP formation or something unexpected. Bob - Original Message - From: Bob Cook To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone I am glad to see that with 30% pressure swings indicated, the operator decided to at least wear a face mask. I think I heard that the tube was good for 1000 psi and they were getting indications of over 600 psi with large swings. It appeared they did not believe their pressure sensor. I think they should have a good bullet proof shield around the dog bone. I would worry about the integrity of an alumina pressure vessel. Is such material commonly used for pressure containing vessels at high temperatures and pressures? It seems they disconnected the pressure sensor at about 2 hrs. and 40 min. into the test, or at least discontinued the video of the signal. I hope they keep the pressure data that since it may be real. However, it would appear that it was correlated with heater power input. Bob - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone Ya' gotta love the 21st century. This seems kind of pointless. Why not read the data a week later? Still, it is fun! The technical chatter makes it sound like NASA. Impressive! I wish Arthur Clarke had lived to see this. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone
I am glad to see that with 30% pressure swings indicated, the operator decided to at least wear a face mask. I think I heard that the tube was good for 1000 psi and they were getting indications of over 600 psi with large swings. It appeared they did not believe their pressure sensor. I think they should have a good bullet proof shield around the dog bone. I would worry about the integrity of an alumina pressure vessel. Is such material commonly used for pressure containing vessels at high temperatures and pressures? It seems they disconnected the pressure sensor at about 2 hrs. and 40 min. into the test, or at least discontinued the video of the signal. I hope they keep the pressure data that since it may be real. However, it would appear that it was correlated with heater power input. Bob - Original Message - From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 4:52 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone Ya' gotta love the 21st century. This seems kind of pointless. Why not read the data a week later? Still, it is fun! The technical chatter makes it sound like NASA. Impressive! I wish Arthur Clarke had lived to see this. - Jed
[Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone
Yes, it’s me ... Since Bob Greenyer reads over here, I will post the info for this beast, in a sec. - Mark Jurich From: Jed Rothwell Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 6:23 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com wrote: A dual coil eddy current pressure transducer is way more immune to magnetic field, radiation and noise, but costs $6k instead of the $500 one they have. In the YouTube talk window someone mentioned a $6,000 pressure meter: Justa Guy MFMP: Can you budget in a $6k Pressure Transducer for a future run, or will that break the bank, at this point? Was that you? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone
Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com wrote: A dual coil eddy current pressure transducer is way more immune to magnetic field, radiation and noise, but costs $6k instead of the $500 one they have. In the YouTube talk window someone mentioned a $6,000 pressure meter: Justa Guy https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMoDRvYYNvVGETNtqmUvDHw MFMP: Can you budget in a $6k Pressure Transducer for a future run, or will that break the bank, at this point? Was that you? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone
A shout out to you, Mark! Someone there just read your remarks. Yo: MFMP, that Geiger counter makes a heck of a racket. It hurt my ears! Can you cover it up or turn down the volume? Granted, it does make ths sound like a real old-fashioned experiment.
[Vo]:Capacitor May not give true results
Guys, the capacitor might be a bad load for the sensor circuitry. I would be suspicious that the output circuit can not operate into the large capacitor you are using. Dave
Re: [Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone
LIGHTS OUT! Incandescent glow. This is fun. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone
Well that was another fun dog bone experiment to watch. After all the discussion on a leaking inner chamber, someone wisely decided to abandon the alumina cylinder for stainless steal and add a pressure sensor to it! Unfortunately it took way to get the noise out of the pressure readings, so it wasn't much help in seeing the decomposition of LiAlH4 or seeing when the leak occurred. After the transducer was fixed, you could see the pressure drop linearly from 100psi to about 18psi indicating a leak. I think that experiment is worth another try. The only suggestions to add would be to find an isolated ground for the pressure transducer and second, verify with Omega that that pressure transducer can be used to measure hydrogen gas pressure. On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 8:47 PM, Axil Axil janap...@gmail.com wrote: Lithium hydride does not decompose at 900C when the pressure is high. The pressure that is being read in this system must be a vapor state of LiH. It seems to me that pure dissociated hydrogen will be hard to come by in such a high pressure system. On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 8:34 PM, Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com wrote: I think it would be interesting to test a similar pressure transducer to the one that they are using to understand how it operates under a varying magnetic or electric fields. It may be that local conditions are affecting the transducer and are indicative of unexpected electric or magnetic conditions in the reactor. They may be caused by LENR or SPP formation or something unexpected. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Bob Cook frobertc...@hotmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Friday, January 02, 2015 5:09 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone I am glad to see that with 30% pressure swings indicated, the operator decided to at least wear a face mask. I think I heard that the tube was good for 1000 psi and they were getting indications of over 600 psi with large swings. It appeared they did not believe their pressure sensor. I think they should have a good bullet proof shield around the dog bone. I would worry about the integrity of an alumina pressure vessel. Is such material commonly used for pressure containing vessels at high temperatures and pressures? It seems they disconnected the pressure sensor at about 2 hrs. and 40 min. into the test, or at least discontinued the video of the signal. I hope they keep the pressure data that since it may be real. However, it would appear that it was correlated with heater power input. Bob - Original Message - *From:* Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com *Sent:* Friday, January 02, 2015 4:52 PM *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:live - grr... dogbone Ya' gotta love the 21st century. This seems kind of pointless. Why not read the data a week later? Still, it is fun! The technical chatter makes it sound like NASA. Impressive! I wish Arthur Clarke had lived to see this. - Jed
[Vo]:Sealing the Dog Bone
Let us not underestimate Rossi. The account of how Rossi loaded the fuel into the alumina tubes told by the TPR2 report does not sound like Rossi when through a complicated time consuming and/or involved alumina sealing process to protect against hydrogen leakage. An excerpt from the Lugano report: A thermocouple probe, inserted into one of the caps, allows the control system to manage power supply to the resistors by measuring the internal temperature of the reactor. The hole for the thermocouple probe is also the only access point for the fuel charge. The thermocouple probe cable is inserted in an alumina cement cylinder, which acts as a bushing and perfectly fits the hole, about 4 mm in diameter. When charging the reactor, the bushing is pulled out, and the charge is inserted. After the thermocouple probe has been lodged back in place, the bushing is sealed and secured with alumina cement. To extract the charge, pliers are used to open the seal. These recent tests by MFMP indicate that sealing alumina from hydrogen leakage is a challenge. But the Rossi Hot Cat did run for weeks without apparent loss of hydrogen. Rossi has come up with a way to effectively seal alumina. How could have Rossi made the alumina tube resistant to hydrogen leakage? Could Rossi have used a self sealing additive included in the fuel mix that entered the pores of the alumina after the reactor was started to minimize hydrogen exfiltration? There was a large amount of carbon in the element analysis of the fuel load. Could it be that Rossi used a organic sealant to stop hydrogen leakage? An excerpt from the Lugano report: Besides the analyzed elements it has been found that the fuel also contains rather high concentrations of C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, Mn and these are not found in the ash. Where did all those rather high concentrations of elements go? Could it be that the C, Ca, Cl, Fe, Mg, and Mn were nano particles used to seal the fuel including hydrogen by blocking the pores of the alumina in a self anodizing process in the initial stages during of reactor startup? Carbon is a well know hydrogen blocker.
Re: [Vo]:A bombshell of a different type?
On Wed, Oct 8, 2014 at 7:21 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Jones Beene's message of Wed, 8 Oct 2014 09:22:13 -0700: Hi, [snip] Li7 + Ni58 = Ni59 + Li6 + 1.75 MeV Li7 + Ni59 = Ni60 + Li6 + 4.14 MeV Li7 + Ni60 = Ni61 + Li6 + 0.57 MeV Li7 + Ni61 = Ni62 + Li6 + 3.34 MeV Li7 + Ni62 = Ni63 + Li6 - 0.41 MeV (Endothermic!) This series stops at Ni62, hence all isotopes of Ni less than 62 are depleted and Ni62 is strongly enriched. The authors of the Lugano report mention a total energy balance of 1.5 MWh excess heat to be accounted for (p. 29). Translating that value, we get 3.3e22 MeV. If the average reaction is 3.5 MeV (just to choose an optimistic number), that means there were 9.4e21 reactions, and presumably 9.4e21 7Li atoms to be consumed in the process. The authors mention that in the sample of the fuel they looked at, there was 1.17 percent lithium (p. 53). If we extrapolate out from the 2 mg sample they obtained to the 1 g of fuel from which it was taken (not necessarily wise), there would have been 0.0117 g * 1 mole / 6.94 g * 6.022e23 / mole = 1.0e21 atoms lithium in the total charge. If we assume that that was 100 percent 7Li to be optimistic, that would mean there were about 1/10th the number of 7Li atoms needed to account for the 1.5 MWh that were produced. Judging from the fact that these calculations go back to the isotope ratios found in a single 2 mg sample of fuel, there's a lot of room for uncertainty. But in this instance we've been optimistic about the average energy per reaction (3.5 MeV), about there being 100 percent lithium, and about all of the 7Li being consumed. The actual heat balance is another variable that can be adjusted to within one's sense of uncertainty. But it would have to be pretty far off for the reaction to consist entirely of 7Li neutron stripping reactions. Have I missed something important? Eric
Re: [Vo]:The melting miracle
I for one did not understand that the center tube was made from stainless steel. Apparently it was not sealed very well. The access port for the pressure transducer to allow it to sense pressure, but remain at below 85 degrees, probably leaked. That design and the welding or bonding of the access tube at the port should be reviewed as the most likely problem area for the leak that occurred. At least the temperature measuring equipment seemed to work and act to confirm the thermal characteristics of the alumina. The bonding of the Stainless steel inner tube to the alumina outer vessel should be described and checked for gaps that may have caused higher local internal temperatures. I would guess that the stainless steel tube was grounded? You would not want it to act as an electrical conductor? I hope someone familiar with the dog bone test design can answer some of these questions. Bob - Original Message - From: ChemE Stewart To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 9:09 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:The melting miracle I think a grounded metal pail might act like a faraday cage and absorb EMF, but if it was open at the top microwaves not absorbed by the water should leak out On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 11:37 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 10:40 AM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I had that weird thought too that the reactor might be generating microwave radiation and heating the water... Would the microwaves make it through the metal pail? Eric
Re: [Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone
KAMAN High Temperature Pressure Measuring Systems, KP-1911 and KP-2025 Series: http://www.kamansensors.com/pdf_files/kaman_high_pressure_sensors_manual_web.pdf ... I’ll try to post more info on this, tonight. I recall it’s just above $6k. - Mark Jurich From: Mark Jurich Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 6:29 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone Yes, it’s me ... Since Bob Greenyer reads over here, I will post the info for this beast, in a sec. - Mark Jurich From: Jed Rothwell Sent: Friday, January 02, 2015 6:23 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone Mark Jurich jur...@hotmail.com wrote: A dual coil eddy current pressure transducer is way more immune to magnetic field, radiation and noise, but costs $6k instead of the $500 one they have. In the YouTube talk window someone mentioned a $6,000 pressure meter: Justa Guy MFMP: Can you budget in a $6k Pressure Transducer for a future run, or will that break the bank, at this point? Was that you? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The melting miracle
I think a grounded metal pail might act like a faraday cage and absorb EMF, but if it was open at the top microwaves not absorbed by the water should leak out On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 11:37 PM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 10:40 AM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I had that weird thought too that the reactor might be generating microwave radiation and heating the water... Would the microwaves make it through the metal pail? Eric
Re: [Vo]:The melting miracle
On Fri, Jan 2, 2015 at 10:40 AM, ChemE Stewart cheme...@gmail.com wrote: I had that weird thought too that the reactor might be generating microwave radiation and heating the water... Would the microwaves make it through the metal pail? Eric
Re: [Vo]:Re: live - grr... dogbone
Justa Guy: Hello, MFMP Justa Guy: Ryan? Open the pod bay door, Hal. Hal! Do you read me? - Jed
