Re: [Vo]:Podcast of interest

2018-02-03 Thread mixent
In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Sat, 3 Feb 2018 15:56:35 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 3:49 PM,  wrote:
>
>When you look at the night sky, it is mostly black, so there don't seem to
>> be as
>> many photons around as would be needed to account for dark matter (or dark
>> energy for that matter ;). Of course, I could be wrong, but that's my first
>> impression.
>>
>
>Your eyes do not see the radio, infrared or microwave backgrounds, nor the
>high-energy gamma rays that are present. :)

True, but the number of gamma/x rays is way fewer than the number of visible
light/heat photons, and the radio waves carry far less energy. Given that most
of the photons in the Universe come from stars, of which our Sun is reasonably
typical, we could expect most of the photons in the Universe to have a spectrum
roughly the same as that of our Sun. 

Another way to look at it is that if most of the photons come from stars, then
the total mass/energy of all photons can't exceed the total mass loss of all
stars over the life of the Universe, and since the mass loss of stars is due to
fusion reactions, and is only a fraction of the total mass of stars, the total
photon mass must be (much) less than the total baryonic mass of the Universe,
thus insufficient to account for dark matter/energy (which must exceed baryonic
matter by a large margin IIRC).
Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success



Re: [Vo]:Podcast of interest

2018-02-03 Thread Eric Walker
On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 3:49 PM,  wrote:

When you look at the night sky, it is mostly black, so there don't seem to
> be as
> many photons around as would be needed to account for dark matter (or dark
> energy for that matter ;). Of course, I could be wrong, but that's my first
> impression.
>

Your eyes do not see the radio, infrared or microwave backgrounds, nor the
high-energy gamma rays that are present. :)

Eric


Re: [Vo]:Podcast of interest

2018-02-03 Thread mixent
In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Sat, 3 Feb 2018 15:42:29 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
>On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 6:21 PM,  wrote:
>
>So now, you have either proven that photons do contribute to gravitational
>> mass,
>> or that particles never enter a black hole. :)
>>
>
>Suppose for the sake of argument that photons carry mass in a very
>delocalized way.  Would there be enough of this mass to account for the
>experimental observations that heave lead astrophysicists to search for
>dark matter?

When you look at the night sky, it is mostly black, so there don't seem to be as
many photons around as would be needed to account for dark matter (or dark
energy for that matter ;). Of course, I could be wrong, but that's my first
impression.

Regards,


Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success



Re: [Vo]:Podcast of interest

2018-02-03 Thread Eric Walker
Horrible spelling on my part:  how about "that have led astrophysicists...".

On Sat, Feb 3, 2018 at 3:42 PM, Eric Walker  wrote:

> On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 6:21 PM,  wrote:
>
> So now, you have either proven that photons do contribute to gravitational
>> mass,
>> or that particles never enter a black hole. :)
>>
>
> Suppose for the sake of argument that photons carry mass in a very
> delocalized way.  Would there be enough of this mass to account for the
> experimental observations that heave lead astrophysicists to search for
> dark matter?
>
> Eric
>
>


Re: [Vo]:Podcast of interest

2018-02-03 Thread Eric Walker
On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 6:21 PM,  wrote:

So now, you have either proven that photons do contribute to gravitational
> mass,
> or that particles never enter a black hole. :)
>

Suppose for the sake of argument that photons carry mass in a very
delocalized way.  Would there be enough of this mass to account for the
experimental observations that heave lead astrophysicists to search for
dark matter?

Eric