Re: [Vo]:Acoustic demonstration of beats
Could the "cold radiation" be considered something like hole carriers in a semiconductor? On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 1:29 PM H LV wrote: > In my estimation Rumford's theory is the seed of an alternate theory of > radiation. It could still grow and blossom into a well > developed mathematical theory of heat. > > I am interested in beat theory because it resonants (pun intended) with > Rumford`s theory of hot and cold radiation, since > both involve _differences_. A beat frequency is given by the difference > of two frequencies and in Rumford`s theory two types of differences are > important.The first is that the relative difference in temperature between > two bodies determines which body is producing more hot or more cold > radiation. The second is that the sign and magnitude of the difference > between the received frequency and the oscillator's frequency determines > whether the radiation increases or decreases the energy of the oscillator. > > Harry >
Re: [Vo]:Acoustic demonstration of beats
Sean, What you are describing is entirely possible. Also, diode lasers can be driven into modes that produce sidebands just at the threshold of ordinary output - but it is hard to control the sidebands without an expensive "loop" receiver and some kind of lock-in control. Using 2 lasers is pretty easy. I am presently working on a dual laser experiment with 2 tunable diode lasers combined optically onto a single fiber. The wavelength separation (determines the beat frequency) is continuously monitored in a high resolution fiber spectrometer. We are nearly ready to run experiments with this hardware. On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 2:10 PM Sean Logan wrote: > Could you use an Optical Parametric Amplifier to create your desired > sidebands? Using one laser as the "signal input" and the other as the > "pump" should give you an output containing sum and difference frequencies > (sidebands, or heterodynes). > > > On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 12:29 H LV wrote: > >> In my estimation Rumford's theory is the seed of an alternate theory of >> radiation. It could still grow and blossom into a well >> developed mathematical theory of heat. >> >> I am interested in beat theory because it resonants (pun intended) with >> Rumford`s theory of hot and cold radiation, since >> both involve _differences_. A beat frequency is given by the difference >> of two frequencies and in Rumford`s theory two types of differences are >> important.The first is that the relative difference in temperature between >> two bodies determines which body is producing more hot or more cold >> radiation. The second is that the sign and magnitude of the difference >> between the received frequency and the oscillator's frequency determines >> whether the radiation increases or decreases the energy of the oscillator. >> >> Harry >> >> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 3:21 PM JonesBeene wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> The beat frequency they were after was in the THz range and this was >>> in order to fit Hagelstein’s theory of optical phonons – >>> >>> >>> >>> … and yes - small gain was seen. >>> >>> >>> >>> However, in the earlier similar work without beat frequencies – single >>> laser only - much higher gain (order of magnitude more) has been reported >>> by Letts/Cravens. >>> >>> >>> >>> The reproducibility was apparently better in the later experiments - >>> but I do not think the lower result with the beat frequency is leading >>> anywhere. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *From: *H LV >>> >>> >>> >>> Beat frequencies of two lasers irradiating a surface appear in >>> >>> _Stimulation of Optical Phonons in Deuterated Palladium_ by Dennis Letts >>> and Peter Hagelstein >>> >>> https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LettsDstimulatio.pdf >>> >>> >>> >>> Harry >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>
Re: [Vo]:Acoustic demonstration of beats
Could you use an Optical Parametric Amplifier to create your desired sidebands? Using one laser as the "signal input" and the other as the "pump" should give you an output containing sum and difference frequencies (sidebands, or heterodynes). On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 12:29 H LV wrote: > In my estimation Rumford's theory is the seed of an alternate theory of > radiation. It could still grow and blossom into a well > developed mathematical theory of heat. > > I am interested in beat theory because it resonants (pun intended) with > Rumford`s theory of hot and cold radiation, since > both involve _differences_. A beat frequency is given by the difference > of two frequencies and in Rumford`s theory two types of differences are > important.The first is that the relative difference in temperature between > two bodies determines which body is producing more hot or more cold > radiation. The second is that the sign and magnitude of the difference > between the received frequency and the oscillator's frequency determines > whether the radiation increases or decreases the energy of the oscillator. > > Harry > > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 3:21 PM JonesBeene wrote: > >> >> >> The beat frequency they were after was in the THz range and this was in >> order to fit Hagelstein’s theory of optical phonons – >> >> >> >> … and yes - small gain was seen. >> >> >> >> However, in the earlier similar work without beat frequencies – single >> laser only - much higher gain (order of magnitude more) has been reported >> by Letts/Cravens. >> >> >> >> The reproducibility was apparently better in the later experiments - but >> I do not think the lower result with the beat frequency is leading >> anywhere. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *From: *H LV >> >> >> >> Beat frequencies of two lasers irradiating a surface appear in >> >> _Stimulation of Optical Phonons in Deuterated Palladium_ by Dennis Letts >> and Peter Hagelstein >> >> https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LettsDstimulatio.pdf >> >> >> >> Harry >> >> >> >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Acoustic demonstration of beats
In my estimation Rumford's theory is the seed of an alternate theory of radiation. It could still grow and blossom into a well developed mathematical theory of heat. I am interested in beat theory because it resonants (pun intended) with Rumford`s theory of hot and cold radiation, since both involve _differences_. A beat frequency is given by the difference of two frequencies and in Rumford`s theory two types of differences are important.The first is that the relative difference in temperature between two bodies determines which body is producing more hot or more cold radiation. The second is that the sign and magnitude of the difference between the received frequency and the oscillator's frequency determines whether the radiation increases or decreases the energy of the oscillator. Harry On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 3:21 PM JonesBeene wrote: > > > The beat frequency they were after was in the THz range and this was in > order to fit Hagelstein’s theory of optical phonons – > > > > … and yes - small gain was seen. > > > > However, in the earlier similar work without beat frequencies – single > laser only - much higher gain (order of magnitude more) has been reported > by Letts/Cravens. > > > > The reproducibility was apparently better in the later experiments - but > I do not think the lower result with the beat frequency is leading > anywhere. > > > > > > > > *From: *H LV > > > > Beat frequencies of two lasers irradiating a surface appear in > > _Stimulation of Optical Phonons in Deuterated Palladium_ by Dennis Letts > and Peter Hagelstein > > https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LettsDstimulatio.pdf > > > > Harry > > > > >
[Vo]:Finite Element Analysis recommendations?
Hello, Can you recommend software for performing Finite Element Analysis, or Method of Moments simulation of E and H fields around a 3D structure? I looked into FEMM, but that seems to only work in 2D. I am aware of commercial packages like CST, COMSOL, HFSS, etc. I dont have $20k to spend. Can you get a plot of the fields with NEC? Thank you for advice, Sean On Wed, Oct 14, 2020, 11:34 AlanG wrote: > On 10/13/2020 6:03 PM, Jones Beene wrote: > > Have you been able to buy one? > > As you suggested, there's a gap in the wavelength of commercially > available systems. Semiconductor diode lasers seem to be currently > available down to 3.5 um (83 THz) > > https://www.toptica.com/products/tunable-diode-lasers/ecdl-dfb-lasers/dfb-pro/ > > Optically pumped secondary lasers are available up to 7.5 THz / 100 mW, > typically used in security scanners. > https://www.edinst.com/products/firl-100-pumped-fir-system/ > > There appears to be a lot of current research to fill the gap, so > hopefully available soon but not quite yet. >
Re: [Vo]:Acoustic demonstration of beats
On 10/13/2020 6:03 PM, Jones Beene wrote: Have you been able to buy one? As you suggested, there's a gap in the wavelength of commercially available systems. Semiconductor diode lasers seem to be currently available down to 3.5 um (83 THz) https://www.toptica.com/products/tunable-diode-lasers/ecdl-dfb-lasers/dfb-pro/ Optically pumped secondary lasers are available up to 7.5 THz / 100 mW, typically used in security scanners. https://www.edinst.com/products/firl-100-pumped-fir-system/ There appears to be a lot of current research to fill the gap, so hopefully available soon but not quite yet.
Re: [Vo]:Acoustic demonstration of beats
Unfortunately, at least for electrochemical LENR, the THz radiation will
not penetrate the electrolyte (not even a micron). The dual laser approach
worked because the two red lasers would pass through the electrolyte and
the beat frequency was produced directly on the cathode surface without the
THz beat having to propagate through the electrolyte. However, for that
THz beat to form, a nonlinearity must be present at the surface of the
cathode. If it were linear, then the only frequencies in the output are
those at the input. It is believed that the addition of the thin film of
gold provided the prescribed nonlinearity. When gold goes down at a low
rate, it is possible for it to form micro- or nano-scale islands rather
than a uniform epitaxy of thin gold. These islands could form plasmon or
other resonant effects that could enhance the local nonlinearity - they
could even form metal-oxide semiconductor junctions for the nonlinear
mixing.
OTOH, if you had a gas phase system (perhaps Mizuno-like), a tunable THz
laser would be an excellent stimulation. I am not sure how well direct THz
stimulation would work through a plasma - it may just reflect or be
absorbed in the plasma.
I would love to have a tunable THz laser to try it.
Bob
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 8:39 AM JonesBeene wrote:
>
>
> Good post, Bob
>
>
>
> Because of this effect (Letts/Cravens) and the optical phonon addition of
> Hagelstein and the Holmlid work also – it seems clear that laser
> irradiation of a metal matrix is perhaps the most promising open avenue
> for optimizing LENR gain.
>
>
>
> It would be great if THz lasers were available now at reasonable cost, and
> maybe they will be soon but it seems like this is the stumbling point in
> progress.
>
>
>
> I would like to see what happens if sequential THz pulsing is followed
> closely in time by a UV laser pulse on the exact same area of loaded matrix.
>
>
>
> IOW the Terahertz pulse primes the target for the much more intense
> radiation which follows.
>
>
>
> This could be a shortcut to Holmlid’s claimed proton annihilation instead
> of “mere fusion. “
>
>
>
> proton annihilation… Ha ! what a concept, almost a LOL…
>
>
>
> … and to think it could be generally ignored by the institutionalized
> Fizzix establishment …
>
>
>
> That would be the Science Story of the century. I was hoping to hear from
> Norront this year.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *Bob Higgins
>
>
>
> Laser stimulation of LENR cells is an interesting subject. These
> experiments can probe the underlying mechanisms of LENR itself. One of the
> things that has not been characterized in the laser stimulation studies is
> the sideband noise of the lasers. All oscillators exhibit sideband noise.
> Oscillators are nonlinear electronic/electro-optical circuits. Because of
> the internal high Q cavity, the intensity of the oscillation is Q times
> higher than the output of the oscillator/laser. This oscillator
> nonlinearity causes the noise at baseband to beat up to form sidebands
> around the oscillator primary output. Also, any noise or modulation of the
> cavity beats to baseband. This means that for a 400 THz red laser, there
> could easily be 8-15 THz sideband energy that will mix with the laser's
> main component producing 8-15 THz baseband excitation.
>
>
>
> So, a single laser excitation is not necessarily a pure 400 THz excitation
> - it could directly excite 8-15 THz phonons with its sidebands.
>
>
>
> The dual laser experiment is important because it provides a controlled
> frequency of THz beat excitation. The LENR output was found to be
> triggered only by specific frequencies of the beat signal that happened to
> correspond to phonon excitation.
>
>
>
> I don't think the phonon correspondence is air-tight because no one
> apparently calculates true phonon solutions for the material. If you look
> at the acoustic propagation formulation, they begin by expanding the
> nonlinear Young's modulus in a series. Then they throw away the nonlinear
> terms of the series and use a linear representation of the Young's
> modulus. Because of this, true phonon solutions will not emerge from the
> equations because phonons are soliton solutions. Soliton solutions
> *require* a nonlinear medium which the present formulations of the
> acoustics do not represent (by choice because they cannot solve the
> nonlinear formulated equation). Yes, you can find singularities in the
> solutions of the linear formulations and say that's where the phonons must
> lie - but it is only an approximate guess ("thar be dragons").
>
>
>
> JonesBeene wrote:
>
> The beat frequency they were after was in the THz range and this was in
> order to fit Hagelstein’s theory of optical phonons … and yes - small gain
> was seen.
>
> However, in the earlier similar work without beat frequencies – single
> laser only - much higher gain (order of magnitude more) has been reported
> by Letts/Cravens.
>
> The reproducibility was apparently better in
RE: [Vo]:Acoustic demonstration of beats
Good post, Bob
Because of this effect (Letts/Cravens) and the optical phonon addition of
Hagelstein and the Holmlid work also – it seems clear that laser irradiation
of a metal matrix is perhaps the most promising open avenue for optimizing
LENR gain.
It would be great if THz lasers were available now at reasonable cost, and
maybe they will be soon but it seems like this is the stumbling point in
progress.
I would like to see what happens if sequential THz pulsing is followed closely
in time by a UV laser pulse on the exact same area of loaded matrix.
IOW the Terahertz pulse primes the target for the much more intense radiation
which follows.
This could be a shortcut to Holmlid’s claimed proton annihilation instead of
“mere fusion. “
proton annihilation… Ha ! what a concept, almost a LOL…
… and to think it could be generally ignored by the institutionalized Fizzix
establishment …
That would be the Science Story of the century. I was hoping to hear from
Norront this year.
From: Bob Higgins
Laser stimulation of LENR cells is an interesting subject. These experiments
can probe the underlying mechanisms of LENR itself. One of the things that has
not been characterized in the laser stimulation studies is the sideband noise
of the lasers. All oscillators exhibit sideband noise. Oscillators are
nonlinear electronic/electro-optical circuits. Because of the internal high Q
cavity, the intensity of the oscillation is Q times higher than the output of
the oscillator/laser. This oscillator nonlinearity causes the noise at
baseband to beat up to form sidebands around the oscillator primary output.
Also, any noise or modulation of the cavity beats to baseband. This means that
for a 400 THz red laser, there could easily be 8-15 THz sideband energy that
will mix with the laser's main component producing 8-15 THz baseband excitation.
So, a single laser excitation is not necessarily a pure 400 THz excitation - it
could directly excite 8-15 THz phonons with its sidebands.
The dual laser experiment is important because it provides a controlled
frequency of THz beat excitation. The LENR output was found to be triggered
only by specific frequencies of the beat signal that happened to correspond to
phonon excitation.
I don't think the phonon correspondence is air-tight because no one apparently
calculates true phonon solutions for the material. If you look at the acoustic
propagation formulation, they begin by expanding the nonlinear Young's modulus
in a series. Then they throw away the nonlinear terms of the series and use a
linear representation of the Young's modulus. Because of this, true phonon
solutions will not emerge from the equations because phonons are soliton
solutions. Soliton solutions require a nonlinear medium which the present
formulations of the acoustics do not represent (by choice because they cannot
solve the nonlinear formulated equation). Yes, you can find singularities in
the solutions of the linear formulations and say that's where the phonons must
lie - but it is only an approximate guess ("thar be dragons").
JonesBeene wrote:
The beat frequency they were after was in the THz range and this was in order
to fit Hagelstein’s theory of optical phonons … and yes - small gain was seen.
However, in the earlier similar work without beat frequencies – single laser
only - much higher gain (order of magnitude more) has been reported by
Letts/Cravens.
The reproducibility was apparently better in the later experiments - but I do
not think the lower result with the beat frequency is leading anywhere.
From: H LV
Beat frequencies of two lasers irradiating a surface appear in
_Stimulation of Optical Phonons in Deuterated Palladium_ by Dennis Letts and
Peter Hagelstein
https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LettsDstimulatio.pdf
Re: [Vo]:Acoustic demonstration of beats
Laser stimulation of LENR cells is an interesting subject. These
experiments can probe the underlying mechanisms of LENR itself. One of the
things that has not been characterized in the laser stimulation studies is
the sideband noise of the lasers. All oscillators exhibit sideband noise.
Oscillators are nonlinear electronic/electro-optical circuits. Because of
the internal high Q cavity, the intensity of the oscillation is Q times
higher than the output of the oscillator/laser. This oscillator
nonlinearity causes the noise at baseband to beat up to form sidebands
around the oscillator primary output. Also, any noise or modulation of the
cavity beats to baseband. This means that for a 400 THz red laser, there
could easily be 8-15 THz sideband energy that will mix with the laser's
main component producing 8-15 THz baseband excitation.
So, a single laser excitation is not necessarily a pure 400 THz excitation
- it could directly excite 8-15 THz phonons with its sidebands.
The dual laser experiment is important because it provides a controlled
frequency of THz beat excitation. The LENR output was found to be
triggered only by specific frequencies of the beat signal that happened to
correspond to phonon excitation.
I don't think the phonon correspondence is air-tight because no one
apparently calculates true phonon solutions for the material. If you look
at the acoustic propagation formulation, they begin by expanding the
nonlinear Young's modulus in a series. Then they throw away the nonlinear
terms of the series and use a linear representation of the Young's
modulus. Because of this, true phonon solutions will not emerge from the
equations because phonons are soliton solutions. Soliton solutions
*require* a nonlinear medium which the present formulations of the
acoustics do not represent (by choice because they cannot solve the
nonlinear formulated equation). Yes, you can find singularities in the
solutions of the linear formulations and say that's where the phonons must
lie - but it is only an approximate guess ("thar be dragons").
On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 1:21 PM JonesBeene wrote:
>
>
> The beat frequency they were after was in the THz range and this was in
> order to fit Hagelstein’s theory of optical phonons –
>
>
>
> … and yes - small gain was seen.
>
>
>
> However, in the earlier similar work without beat frequencies – single
> laser only - much higher gain (order of magnitude more) has been reported
> by Letts/Cravens.
>
>
>
> The reproducibility was apparently better in the later experiments - but
> I do not think the lower result with the beat frequency is leading
> anywhere.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *H LV
>
>
>
> Beat frequencies of two lasers irradiating a surface appear in
>
> _Stimulation of Optical Phonons in Deuterated Palladium_ by Dennis Letts
> and Peter Hagelstein
>
> https://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LettsDstimulatio.pdf
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
>
