Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 6:28 PM H LV  wrote:

>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 4:20 PM JonesBeene  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>- If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen
>>atoms they should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old 
>> technology
>>many decades ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their
>>existence.
>>
>>
>>
>> Harry
>>
>>
>>
>> What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an
>> intriguing path to follow
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old
>> data.. should anyone here be looking for a new project.
>>
>>
>>
>> H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much
>> denser that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they
>> are relatively inert.
>>
>>
>>
>> For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of water
>> where one of the protons is replaced with dense hydrogen as this could
>> present a charge imbalance.
>>
>>
>>
>> It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place dense hydrogen
>> should be found in nature (assuming it is real)
>>
>>
>>
>> My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use it for
>> survival, somehow.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jones
>>
>
>
> Look for abnormally high energetic emissions from a hot hydrogen gas. That
> would be evidence of hydrogen relaxing below the ground state. The
> probability of the formation of hydrinos in an ideal gas would be very
> low.. However, I think the probability might increase as the gas got
> cooler. This would be in contrast with the probability of fusion
> increasing as the temperature of the gas increased.
>
> Harry
>

It might be better to look for unusual absorption lines in a cold gas of
hydrogen. This would indicate the hydrino atom was there but changed back
into an ordinary hydrogen atom by absorbing energy.

Harry



>
>

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 4:20 PM JonesBeene  wrote:

>
>
>- If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen atoms
>they should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old technology many
>decades ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their existence.
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
> What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an
> intriguing path to follow
>
>
>
> BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old data..
> should anyone here be looking for a new project.
>
>
>
> H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much
> denser that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they
> are relatively inert.
>
>
>
> For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of water
> where one of the protons is replaced with dense hydrogen as this could
> present a charge imbalance.
>
>
>
> It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place dense hydrogen
> should be found in nature (assuming it is real)
>
>
>
> My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use it for
> survival, somehow.
>
>
>
> Jones
>


Look for abnormally high energetic emissions from a hot hydrogen gas. That
would be evidence of hydrogen relaxing below the ground state. The
probability of the formation of hydrinos in an ideal gas would be very
low.. However, I think the probability might increase as the gas got
cooler. This would be in contrast with the probability of fusion
increasing as the temperature of the gas increased.

Harry
Harry

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Do you mean no closed orbits?


No flat orbits = classic planetary orbits do exist. All natural orbits 
are toroidal! See movements of earth axis!


Mills: No the charge increases linearly with state number (N) what is 
nonsense as a locked in photon (Mills slang) cannot produce such a charge!


J.W.
On 22.11.2020 23:59, H LV wrote

a

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 4:24 PM Jürg Wyttenbach > wrote:


Hydrinos are based on speculative math and contradict the basic
law of charge invariance --> nonsensical. But there are Hydrino
like resonances based on magnetic resonance that is pretty close
to the calculated values. So wrong model - pretty good results.


Yes I recall reading that  a charge on the proton changes slightly 
when one of Mill's hydrino forms.


Dark matter is based on pretty bad understanding of physics
only... There are no flat orbits in nature and thus SM/GR is
incomplete.


Do you mean no closed orbits?

Harry

J.W.

On 22.11.2020 19:55, JonesBeene wrote:


*From: *H LV 

  * Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen
atom is stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should
be more common than ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the
case. Therefore, if below ground states of hydrogen atoms can
exist I think it is more likely that such an atom is
typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart
and a special environment is needed to favour the formation
of such a 'cold atom'.

Harry

This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also
espoused by Holmlid, Mills and others…

Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter

This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal
scale. Now there is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than
primordial hydrogen and this is indicative of eons of
densification of light hydrogen followed by accumulation as dark
matter.

IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much
less of what is now dark matter.

-- 
Jürg Wyttenbach

Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06


--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 4:24 PM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> Hydrinos are based on speculative math and contradict the basic law of
> charge invariance --> nonsensical. But there are Hydrino like resonances
> based on magnetic resonance that is pretty close to the calculated values.
> So wrong model - pretty good results.
>
>
> Yes I recall reading that  a charge on the proton changes slightly when
one of Mill's hydrino forms.

Dark matter is based on pretty bad understanding of physics only... There
> are no flat orbits in nature and thus SM/GR is incomplete.
>
>
> Do you mean no closed orbits?

Harry



> J.W.
> On 22.11.2020 19:55, JonesBeene wrote:
>
> *From: *H LV 
>
>
>
>- Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom
>is stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more common than
>ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the case. Therefore, if below ground
>states of hydrogen atoms can exist I think it is more likely that such
>an atom is typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart
>and a special environment is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold
>atom'.
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
>
> This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also espoused by
> Holmlid, Mills and others…
>
>
>
> Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter
>
>
>
> This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal scale. Now
> there is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than primordial hydrogen and
> this is indicative of eons of densification of light hydrogen followed by
> accumulation as dark matter.
>
>
>
> IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much less of
> what is now dark matter.
>
> --
> Jürg Wyttenbach
> Bifangstr. 22
> 8910 Affoltern am Albis
>
> +41 44 760 14 18
> +41 79 246 36 06
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

Hydrinos are based on speculative math and contradict the basic law of 
charge invariance --> nonsensical. But there are Hydrino like resonances 
based on magnetic resonance that is pretty close to the calculated 
values. So wrong model - pretty good results.



Dark matter is based on pretty bad understanding of physics only... 
There are no flat orbits in nature and thus SM/GR is incomplete.



J.W.

On 22.11.2020 19:55, JonesBeene wrote:


*From: *H LV 

  * Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom
is stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more
common than ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the case.
Therefore, if below ground states of hydrogen atoms can exist I
think it is more likely that such an atom is typically less stable
than its above ground state counterpart and a special environment
is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold atom'.

Harry

This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also espoused by 
Holmlid, Mills and others…


Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter

This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal scale. 
Now there is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than primordial 
hydrogen and this is indicative of eons of densification of light 
hydrogen followed by accumulation as dark matter.


IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much less 
of what is now dark matter.



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06

RE: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[JonesBeene]

➢ If hydrinos are just more stable versions of isolated hydrogen atoms they 
should have been discovered in hydrogen gas using old technology many decades 
ago. But this is just a strawman argument against their existence.

Harry

What old technology, exactly, would have discovered them? That is an intriguing 
path to follow

BTW it could be a “fundable” inquiry involving a deeper look at old data.. 
should anyone here be looking for a new project.

H* would have almost the same mass as hydrogen - but would be so  much denser 
that it  probably cannot react chemically in the same way, so they are 
relatively inert.

 For instance, there is unlikely to be found in nature a form of water where 
one of the protons is replaced with dense hydrogen as this could present a 
charge imbalance.

It would be worth the effort to find the most likely place dense hydrogen 
should be found in nature (assuming it is real)

My guess is that it would be in biological lifeforms which use it for survival, 
somehow.

Jones

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 1:55 PM JonesBeene  wrote:

> *From: *H LV 
>
>
>
>- Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom
>is stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more common than
>ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the case. Therefore, if below ground
>states of hydrogen atoms can exist I think it is more likely that such
>an atom is typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart
>and a special environment is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold
>atom'.
>
>
>
> Harry
>
>
>
>
>
> This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also espoused by
> Holmlid, Mills and others…
>
>
>
> Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter
>
>
>
> This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal scale. Now
> there is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than primordial hydrogen and
> this is indicative of eons of densification of light hydrogen followed by
> accumulation as dark matter.
>
>
>
> IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much less of
> what is now dark matter.
>

I guess it depends on what one means by stable.  If hydrinos are just more
stable versions of isolated hydrogen atoms they should have been discovered
in hydrogen gas using old technology many decades ago. But this is just a
strawman argument against their existence.

Harry

RE: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[JonesBeene]

From: H LV

➢ Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom is stable. 
However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more common than ordinary 
hydrogen atoms which is not the case. Therefore, if below ground states of 
hydrogen atoms can exist I think it is more likely that such an atom is 
typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart and a special 
environment is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold atom'. 

Harry


This is the beauty of the further related hypothesis, also espoused by Holmlid, 
Mills and others…

Which is basically this: dense hydrogen = dark matter 

This solves the precise problem you mention on the universal scale. Now there 
is far more dark matter (dense hydrogen)than primordial hydrogen and this is 
indicative of eons of densification of light hydrogen followed by accumulation 
as dark matter. 

IOW billions of years ago there was much more hydrogen and much less of what is 
now dark matter.

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[H LV]

Mills says his hydrino model of a below ground state hydrogen atom is
stable. However, if hydrinos were stable they should be more common than
ordinary hydrogen atoms which is not the case. Therefore, if below ground
states of hydrogen atoms can exist I think it is more likely that such
an atom is typically less stable than its above ground state counterpart
and a special environment is needed to favour the formation of such a 'cold
atom'.

Harry

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 6:54 AM Jürg Wyttenbach  wrote:

> There is one deep state for Hydrogen/Deuterium that has been detected by
> R.Santilli more than 20 years ago.
>
> There are dozens of fantasts that believe in deep electron orbits and some
> finally end up in nuclear bonds that cannot be understood by classic
> physics. H* the "deep" Hydrogen state has been extensively measured by R.
> Mills and can be exactly calculated by new physics (SO(4) physics).
>
> In fact it is not a deep Hydrogen state, its a weak nuclear bond we call
> H*-H*.
>
> We today exactly understand how (cold) fusion works but you must learn new
> physics and forget the rotten/nonsensical standard model.
>
>
> J.W.
> On 22.11.2020 07:23, H LV wrote:
>
> In response to hot fusion detractors of the cold fusion explanation of
> excess heat, proponents of cold fusion say that the conventional theory of
> hot fusion does not apply to the conditions present in a lattice. The
> proponents argue that the lattice can somehow amplify the probability of
> fusion through some sort of enhanced quantum tunneling effect.
>
> What I would like to know is if anyone has proposed the possibility that
> the familiar ground state of a hydrogen atom can  be changed and lowered
> through some sort of quantum effect of the lattice on the wave function of
> a hydrogen atom. If special quantum circumstances are required for the
> formation of sub states of hydrogen it would explain why they are not
> typically observed.
>
> Harry
>
>
> --
> Jürg Wyttenbach
> Bifangstr. 22
> 8910 Affoltern am Albis
>
> +41 44 760 14 18
> +41 79 246 36 06
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Stefan Israelsson Tampe]

I think that electron screening means that the nuclei also can aim better
at each other. In hot plasma you do not have this screening effect. Also an
effect to consider.

On Sun, Nov 22, 2020 at 7:46 AM H LV  wrote:

> In response to hot fusion detractors of the cold fusion explanation of
> excess heat, proponents of cold fusion say that the conventional theory of
> hot fusion does not apply to the conditions present in a lattice. The
> proponents argue that the lattice can somehow amplify the probability of
> fusion through some sort of enhanced quantum tunneling effect.
>
> What I would like to know is if anyone has proposed the possibility that
> the familiar ground state of a hydrogen atom can  be changed and lowered
> through some sort of quantum effect of the lattice on the wave function of
> a hydrogen atom. If special quantum circumstances are required for the
> formation of sub states of hydrogen it would explain why they are not
> typically observed.
>
> Harry
>
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Concerning sub states of hydrogen

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

There is one deep state for Hydrogen/Deuterium that has been detected by 
R.Santilli more than 20 years ago.


There are dozens of fantasts that believe in deep electron orbits and 
some finally end up in nuclear bonds that cannot be understood by 
classic physics. H* the "deep" Hydrogen state has been extensively 
measured by R. Mills and can be exactly calculated by new physics (SO(4) 
physics).


In fact it is not a deep Hydrogen state, its a weak nuclear bond we call 
H*-H*.


We today exactly understand how (cold) fusion works but you must learn 
new physics and forget the rotten/nonsensical standard model.



J.W.

On 22.11.2020 07:23, H LV wrote:
In response to hot fusion detractors of the cold fusion explanation of 
excess heat, proponents of cold fusion say that the conventional 
theory of hot fusion does not apply to the conditions present in a 
lattice. The proponents argue that the lattice can somehow amplify the 
probability of fusion through some sort of enhanced quantum tunneling 
effect.


What I would like to know is if anyone has proposed the possibility 
that the familiar ground state of a hydrogen atom can  be changed and 
lowered through some sort of quantum effect of the lattice on the wave 
function of a hydrogen atom. If special quantum circumstances are 
required for the formation of sub states of hydrogen it would explain 
why they are not typically observed.


Harry



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr. 22
8910 Affoltern am Albis

+41 44 760 14 18
+41 79 246 36 06