Re: [Vo]: Proton's internal structure...
As I mentioned before, Cook gave a presentation on this subject at ICCF-15: http://iccf15.frascati.enea.it/ICCF15-PRESENTATIONS/S8_O2_Cook.pdf After the presentation someone asked "what does this have to do with cold fusion?" Cook said "nothing so far." I felt like adding: "Come on people, it has to have *something* to do with it!" That's my gut feeling. The enea PRESENTATIONS folder has more files in it than it did a few weeks ago. Check back to see if they have *your* favorite! - Jed
RE: [Vo]: Proton's internal structure...
As a followup to this... Here's yet another example of the fact that there are still many things that modern science doesn't understand... and this is a weekly happening, if not daily: "We are interested in seeing how these nanotube quantum dots work, and tracking what happens in them. We've already seen some unexpected features, such as an unusual energy exchange.*" And this statement a bit earlier in the article: "Some of the spectroscopic features observed with the superconducting probe include signals from cotunneling and unusual scattering processes." Let me translate... "unexpected features", "unusual energy exchange" and "unusual scattering processes" = "WTF!" :-) And of course, cold fusion is IMPOSSIBLE since we know all there is to know about the atom... ;-) -Mark -Original Message- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 5:09 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]: Proton's internal structure... On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:13 PM, Mark Iverson wrote: > > This just out at PhysOrg... (see at bottom of msg) > > What I find funny, in a sad kind of way, is the following statement: > > "So you have one set of data that tells you the mass-dependence > picture doesn't work and another that tells you the density-dependence > picture doesn't work," > Arrington explained. > "So, if both of these pictures are wrong, what's really going on?" > > And the experts dare say that fusion is IMPOSSIBLE under the > conditions present in a CF cell? This can ONLY be said if one knows > everything about nuclear interactions, and CLEARLY, they DON'T! Good observation! > > -Mark > === > > JLab experiment E03-103 made precise new measurements of the EMC > effect ... [snip] Some related URLs: http://www.pg.infn.it/hadronic08/lectures/11_Gaskell.pdf http://conferences.jlab.org/elba/talks/solvignon.pdf http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-11/djna-ppp111809.php http://machineslikeus.com/news/protons-neighbors-may-alter-its- internal-structure http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/protons-party-pals-may-alter-its- internal-structure-27375.html http://www.physorg.com/news177787801.html Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.74/2515 - Release Date: 11/20/09 08:02:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.74/2515 - Release Date: 11/20/09 08:02:00
Re: [Vo]: Proton's internal structure...
so basically, london forces inside the protons? rock on. On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 1:13 AM, Mark Iverson wrote: > > This just out at PhysOrg... (see at bottom of msg) > > What I find funny, in a sad kind of way, is the following statement: > > "So you have one set of data that tells you the mass-dependence picture > doesn't work and another > that tells you the density-dependence picture doesn't work," Arrington > explained. > "So, if both of these pictures are wrong, what's really going on?" > > And the experts dare say that fusion is IMPOSSIBLE under the conditions > present in a CF cell? This > can ONLY be said if one knows everything about nuclear interactions, and > CLEARLY, they DON'T! > > -Mark > === > > JLab experiment E03-103 made precise new measurements of the EMC effect in a > variety of light > nuclei. The results indicate that the effect does not depend on nuclear mass > or density but rather > on the microscopic structure of nuclei, usually neglected in high-energy > measurements. This result > hinges on the unusual structure of 9Be. Most of the time, it is in a > configuration with two 4He-like > clusters and an additional neutron orbiting around each other. The orbiting > clusters yield a large > radius and an anomalously low average density similar to that of the much > less massive 3He. But the > size of the EMC Effect in 9Be is much more similar to that of the denser > nucleus of 12C. This is > probably because most nucleons are contained within the high local densities > of the clusters. The > results suggest that the EMC effect may be entirely generated within these > small, high-density > clusters, where densities can briefly approach those in a neutron star. > Credit: Image: Peter Mueller > (Argonne National Lab) > > > A recent experiment at the DOE's Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator > Facility has found that a > proton's nearest neighbors in the nucleus of the atom may modify the proton's > internal structure. > > The result was published in the November 13 issue of the journal Physical > Review Letters. > > When comparing large nuclei to small nuclei, past measurements have shown a > clear difference in how > the proton's constituent particles, called quarks, are distributed. This > difference is called the > EMC Effect. > > [deletions...] > > "So you have one set of data that tells you the mass-dependence picture > doesn't work and another > that tells you the density-dependence picture doesn't work," Arrington > explained. "So, if both of > these pictures are wrong, what's really going on?" > > [deletions...] > > "We want to isolate the quark structure during the moment when the proton and > neutron are very close > together. If we find a large effect in such a small and simple nucleus by > looking when the proton > and neutron are closest together, it will demonstrate that the EMC effect > does not require a large, > dense nucleus - it simply requires two nucleons coming into extremely close > contact," Arrington > explained. > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09 > 07:51:00 > >
Re: [Vo]: Proton's internal structure...
On this point I'm reminded of the Oppenheimer-Phillips effect. Heavy nuclei, under deuteron bombardment, undergo nuclear transmutation short of the energy required to overcome the Coulomb barrier. A deuteron is the most polarized nucleus, being possible to conceive of as something like a dumbell. Apparently what happens is that a deuteron approaches a target nucleus. If the polarization of the deuteron is favorable, as the deuteron is deaccelerated by Coulomb repulsion, the neutron end can approach the nucleus close enough for the nuclear force to start operating. The proton is repelled by the nucleus, but still attracted by the neutron due to the binding energy of the deuteron. If the approach is close enough, the neutron is stripped from the proton, because at that point the repulsive force on the proton becomes stronger than the binding force of the deuteron, so the proton is expelled, carrying a range of energies which can be more than double the original energy of the deuteron. What the deuteron has effectively done is to deliver a nice, fat, slow neutron to the nucleus, so it can fuse. I helped write the Wikipedia article on the topic, working with ScienceApologist, who was a bit prickly, suspecting that I was up to no good, trying to propose O-P process as cold fusion or something like that. In fact, of course, something like O-P process might be involved in the F-P effect, but I wasn't about to push it. Takahashi's theory involves four deuterons in a tetrahedral configuration, and there are two factors that might positively influence the fusion cross-section: possible electron screening that could amplify the effect of confinement, and polarization of the deuterons, so that the neutron ends can approach and begin to attract each other. I don't know if Takahashi has taken this into account; my guess is that he has. He does predict 100% fusion within a femtosecond if the tetrahedral configuration forms, which is remarkable, assuming he's done the math correctly. Does the configuration form? Eventually, someone may figure out how to check for that; but we do know that the rate of fusion is very low. It might only be detectable through the heat and radiation, i.e., after the fact.
Re: [Vo]: Proton's internal structure...
On Nov 19, 2009, at 11:13 PM, Mark Iverson wrote: This just out at PhysOrg... (see at bottom of msg) What I find funny, in a sad kind of way, is the following statement: "So you have one set of data that tells you the mass-dependence picture doesn't work and another that tells you the density-dependence picture doesn't work," Arrington explained. "So, if both of these pictures are wrong, what's really going on?" And the experts dare say that fusion is IMPOSSIBLE under the conditions present in a CF cell? This can ONLY be said if one knows everything about nuclear interactions, and CLEARLY, they DON'T! Good observation! -Mark === JLab experiment E03-103 made precise new measurements of the EMC effect ... [snip] Some related URLs: http://www.pg.infn.it/hadronic08/lectures/11_Gaskell.pdf http://conferences.jlab.org/elba/talks/solvignon.pdf http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2009-11/djna-ppp111809.php http://machineslikeus.com/news/protons-neighbors-may-alter-its- internal-structure http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/protons-party-pals-may-alter-its- internal-structure-27375.html http://www.physorg.com/news177787801.html Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
[Vo]: Proton's internal structure...
This just out at PhysOrg... (see at bottom of msg) What I find funny, in a sad kind of way, is the following statement: "So you have one set of data that tells you the mass-dependence picture doesn't work and another that tells you the density-dependence picture doesn't work," Arrington explained. "So, if both of these pictures are wrong, what's really going on?" And the experts dare say that fusion is IMPOSSIBLE under the conditions present in a CF cell? This can ONLY be said if one knows everything about nuclear interactions, and CLEARLY, they DON'T! -Mark === JLab experiment E03-103 made precise new measurements of the EMC effect in a variety of light nuclei. The results indicate that the effect does not depend on nuclear mass or density but rather on the microscopic structure of nuclei, usually neglected in high-energy measurements. This result hinges on the unusual structure of 9Be. Most of the time, it is in a configuration with two 4He-like clusters and an additional neutron orbiting around each other. The orbiting clusters yield a large radius and an anomalously low average density similar to that of the much less massive 3He. But the size of the EMC Effect in 9Be is much more similar to that of the denser nucleus of 12C. This is probably because most nucleons are contained within the high local densities of the clusters. The results suggest that the EMC effect may be entirely generated within these small, high-density clusters, where densities can briefly approach those in a neutron star. Credit: Image: Peter Mueller (Argonne National Lab) A recent experiment at the DOE's Thomas Jefferson National Accelerator Facility has found that a proton's nearest neighbors in the nucleus of the atom may modify the proton's internal structure. The result was published in the November 13 issue of the journal Physical Review Letters. When comparing large nuclei to small nuclei, past measurements have shown a clear difference in how the proton's constituent particles, called quarks, are distributed. This difference is called the EMC Effect. [deletions...] "So you have one set of data that tells you the mass-dependence picture doesn't work and another that tells you the density-dependence picture doesn't work," Arrington explained. "So, if both of these pictures are wrong, what's really going on?" [deletions...] "We want to isolate the quark structure during the moment when the proton and neutron are very close together. If we find a large effect in such a small and simple nucleus by looking when the proton and neutron are closest together, it will demonstrate that the EMC effect does not require a large, dense nucleus - it simply requires two nucleons coming into extremely close contact," Arrington explained. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.425 / Virus Database: 270.14.73/2513 - Release Date: 11/19/09 07:51:00 <>
