Re: [Vo]: Survey based on Steam Phase diagram...
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 11:26 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: > Assuming the boiling is always happening at the same pressure, you can > extend the horizontal line B-C to the temperature axis and treat that as the > temperature of boiling. Wet steam is present only AT the temperature of > boiling. As long as the temperature of the vapour is just above the boiling > temperature then you can be sure it is dry steam, even if it is only a tenth > of degree above the boiling temperature. > > Perhaps, but we don't know that it is a tenth of a degree above the boiling temperature. If it were, then when it reaches point C, you should see an increase in the temperature by 0.1C, but there is no indication of such an increase. And then the ecat would be operating on the steep gradient between points C and D. It would have to be stable to a fraction of a per cent for the temperature to remain so perfectly constant. That seems impossible. The perfectly regulated temperature is much better evidence that the steam is at the boiling point than the absolute measurements of the temperature and pressure are that the steam is 0.1C above the boiling.
Re: [Vo]: Survey based on Steam Phase diagram...
Assuming the boiling is always happening at the same pressure, you can extend the horizontal line B-C to the temperature axis and treat that as the temperature of boiling. Wet steam is present only AT the temperature of boiling. As long as the temperature of the vapour is just above the boiling temperature then you can be sure it is dry steam, even if it is only a tenth of degree above the boiling temperature. Harry From: Mark Iverson >To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2011 3:47:37 PM >Subject: [Vo]: Survey based on Steam Phase diagram... > > >Take a look at Fig. 2.2.3 (about 2/3rds of the way down the page) on this >website: >http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/steam-engineering-tutorials/steam-engineering-principles-and-he >at-transfer/what-is-steam.asp > >There is a very clear explanation below the Figure... > >This is the best reference and explanation I've seen so far... > >* >For all those who care to chime in, >I'd like to know where you think the >E-Cat is operating along the A-B-C-D >line segments? >Or NOT on any of those segments... >* > >-Mark > > > > >
Re: [Vo]: Survey based on Steam Phase diagram...
On Tue, Jul 5, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Mark Iverson wrote: > > Take a look at Fig. 2.2.3 (about 2/3rds of the way down the page) on this > website: > > http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/steam-engineering-tutorials/steam-engineering-principles-and-he > at-transfer/what-is-steam.asp > > There is a very clear explanation below the Figure... > > This is the best reference and explanation I've seen so far... > > * > For all those who care to chime in, > I'd like to know where you think the > E-Cat is operating along the A-B-C-D > line segments? > Or NOT on any of those segments... > * > > That is a nice account. The diagram (2.2.3) is schematic, and the ABCD path represents constant pressure, so presumably it could represent atmospheric pressure. The diagram illustrates nicely why the constant temperature observed means the ecat is operating between points B and C, and that the enthalpy changes by a factor of about 8 over that range (depending on the starting temperature of the water). Rossi is clearly claiming the ecat operates at point C, and skeptics like me are saying it is probably operating closer to point B. Note that none of the quantitative measures that Rossi reports distinguishes between these two extreme possibilities. The appearance of the steam at the output, seems more consistent to me with something close to B, rather than close to C, but we should not have to rely on that. It's a really poor (or really clever, depending on your purpose) experimental design that does not measure (let alone monitor) anything relevant during an 8-fold increase in enthalpy, like the output flow rate, or the temperature inside the ecat.
[Vo]: Survey based on Steam Phase diagram...
Take a look at Fig. 2.2.3 (about 2/3rds of the way down the page) on this website: http://www.spiraxsarco.com/resources/steam-engineering-tutorials/steam-engineering-principles-and-he at-transfer/what-is-steam.asp There is a very clear explanation below the Figure... This is the best reference and explanation I've seen so far... * For all those who care to chime in, I'd like to know where you think the E-Cat is operating along the A-B-C-D line segments? Or NOT on any of those segments... * -Mark
