Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
This trick would be the same as using radiation in the construction of the E-cat at least in the minds of the certification regulators. On Wed, May 22, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Paul Breed wrote: > Another possibility > Maybe Rossi has some radiation source in a lead box he pulls it out > and shines it on his reactor starting it > This would be consistent with the diurnal variation some have seen that > matches the diurnal cosmic ray intensity. > > Maybe the system needs a trigger > > > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Axil Axil wrote: > >> My interpretation of this quote is as follows: >> >> Rossi starts off with 5 micron nickel powder. He then forms nickel >> nanowires on the surface of this micro-powder using a propriety surface >> treatment. >> >> This treatment uses ionized nickel that Rossi sprays on the surface of >> the micro-powder. He selects heavy nickel atoms from the nickel vapor spray >> using electromagnetic mass separation. >> >> This method is a form of mass spectrometry, and is sometimes referred to >> by that name. It uses the fact that charged particles are deflected in a >> magnetic field and the amount of deflection depends upon the particle's >> mass. It is very expensive for the quantity produced, as it has an >> extremely low throughput, but it can allow very high purities to be >> achieved. This method is often used for processing small amounts of pure >> isotopes for research or specific use (such as isotopic tracers), but is >> usually impractical for industrial use. >> >> At Oak Ridge and at the University of California, Berkeley, Ernest O. >> Lawrence developed electromagnetic separation for much of the uranium used >> in the first United States atomic bomb (see Manhattan Project). Devices >> using his principle are named calutrons. After the war the method was >> largely abandoned as impractical. It had only been undertaken (along with >> diffusion and other technologies) to guarantee there would be enough >> material for use, whatever the cost. Its main eventual contribution to the >> war effort was to further concentrate material from the gaseous diffusion >> plants to even higher levels of purity. >> Since Rossi must vaporize the nickel anyway, little addition energy is >> required to select the nickel atoms the land on the micro-powder using mass >> spectrometry principles. >> >> see: >> >> >> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Diagram_of_uranium_isotope_separation_in_the_calutron.png >> >> >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Arnaud Kodeck >> wrote: >> >>> Lovable : Is it an April fool ? (Look at the date of comment of Andrea >>> Rossi) >>> >>> **2. ** >>> Andrea Rossi >>> >>> April 1st, 2012 at 5:51 >>> PM<http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=614&cpage=1#comment-209521> >>> **** >>> >>> Dear Steven N. Karels: >>> *We use regular Ni, then we make series of treatment. The cost of >>> treatment is irrelevant compared to the energy produced.** >>> *Warm Regards, >>> A.R. >>> >>> ** ** >>> -- >>> >>> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] >>> *Sent:* mardi 21 mai 2013 20:23 >>> *To:* vortex-l >>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January >>> 14, 2011 Rossi Test >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> >>> http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/110-quotes-by-rossi-about-gamma-rays-and-transmutations/ >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> 110+ Quotes by Rossi about Gamma Rays and Transmutations >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Axil Axil wrote:** >>> ** >>> >>> http://cold-fusion.ca/floridagate-puts-rossi-under-scrutiny-299000 >>> >>> >>> >>> *“Floridagate” puts Rossi under scrutiny* >>> >>> >>> >>> The matter was investigated by Mr James Stokes who reported “Dr Rossi >>> stated the active ingredients are powdered nickel and a tablet containing a >>> compound which releases hydrogen gas during the process. The output thermal >>> energy is six times the electrical energy input. He acknowledged that *no >>> nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons >>> in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device. There are no &
Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
Another possibility Maybe Rossi has some radiation source in a lead box he pulls it out and shines it on his reactor starting it This would be consistent with the diurnal variation some have seen that matches the diurnal cosmic ray intensity. Maybe the system needs a trigger On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 11:46 AM, Axil Axil wrote: > My interpretation of this quote is as follows: > > Rossi starts off with 5 micron nickel powder. He then forms nickel > nanowires on the surface of this micro-powder using a propriety surface > treatment. > > This treatment uses ionized nickel that Rossi sprays on the surface of the > micro-powder. He selects heavy nickel atoms from the nickel vapor spray > using electromagnetic mass separation. > > This method is a form of mass spectrometry, and is sometimes referred to > by that name. It uses the fact that charged particles are deflected in a > magnetic field and the amount of deflection depends upon the particle's > mass. It is very expensive for the quantity produced, as it has an > extremely low throughput, but it can allow very high purities to be > achieved. This method is often used for processing small amounts of pure > isotopes for research or specific use (such as isotopic tracers), but is > usually impractical for industrial use. > > At Oak Ridge and at the University of California, Berkeley, Ernest O. > Lawrence developed electromagnetic separation for much of the uranium used > in the first United States atomic bomb (see Manhattan Project). Devices > using his principle are named calutrons. After the war the method was > largely abandoned as impractical. It had only been undertaken (along with > diffusion and other technologies) to guarantee there would be enough > material for use, whatever the cost. Its main eventual contribution to the > war effort was to further concentrate material from the gaseous diffusion > plants to even higher levels of purity. > Since Rossi must vaporize the nickel anyway, little addition energy is > required to select the nickel atoms the land on the micro-powder using mass > spectrometry principles. > > see: > > > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Diagram_of_uranium_isotope_separation_in_the_calutron.png > > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: > >> Lovable : Is it an April fool ? (Look at the date of comment of Andrea >> Rossi) >> >> **2. ** >> Andrea Rossi >> >> April 1st, 2012 at 5:51 >> PM<http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=614&cpage=1#comment-209521> >> >> >> Dear Steven N. Karels: >> *We use regular Ni, then we make series of treatment. The cost of >> treatment is irrelevant compared to the energy produced.** >> *Warm Regards, >> A.R. >> >> ** ** >> -- >> >> *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* mardi 21 mai 2013 20:23 >> *To:* vortex-l >> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January >> 14, 2011 Rossi Test >> >> ** ** >> >> >> http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/110-quotes-by-rossi-about-gamma-rays-and-transmutations/ >> >> >> >> >> 110+ Quotes by Rossi about Gamma Rays and Transmutations >> >> ** ** >> >> On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Axil Axil wrote:*** >> * >> >> http://cold-fusion.ca/floridagate-puts-rossi-under-scrutiny-299000 >> >> >> >> *“Floridagate” puts Rossi under scrutiny* >> >> >> >> The matter was investigated by Mr James Stokes who reported “Dr Rossi >> stated the active ingredients are powdered nickel and a tablet containing a >> compound which releases hydrogen gas during the process. The output thermal >> energy is six times the electrical energy input. He acknowledged that *no >> nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons >> in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device. There are no >> radiation readings above background when the device is in operation.*Since >> the device is not a reactor, the NRC does not have jurisdiction. Since >> there is no radioactive materials used in the construction and no >> radioactive waste is generated by it, the State of Florida, Bureau of >> Radiation Control has no jurisdiction. *Currently, all production, >> distribution and use of these devices is overseas.* Dr Rossi has >> arranged to meet with Underwriter Laboratories (UL) to seek approval for >> manufacturing in the United States.” >> >> ** ** >> >&g
Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
My interpretation of this quote is as follows: Rossi starts off with 5 micron nickel powder. He then forms nickel nanowires on the surface of this micro-powder using a propriety surface treatment. This treatment uses ionized nickel that Rossi sprays on the surface of the micro-powder. He selects heavy nickel atoms from the nickel vapor spray using electromagnetic mass separation. This method is a form of mass spectrometry, and is sometimes referred to by that name. It uses the fact that charged particles are deflected in a magnetic field and the amount of deflection depends upon the particle's mass. It is very expensive for the quantity produced, as it has an extremely low throughput, but it can allow very high purities to be achieved. This method is often used for processing small amounts of pure isotopes for research or specific use (such as isotopic tracers), but is usually impractical for industrial use. At Oak Ridge and at the University of California, Berkeley, Ernest O. Lawrence developed electromagnetic separation for much of the uranium used in the first United States atomic bomb (see Manhattan Project). Devices using his principle are named calutrons. After the war the method was largely abandoned as impractical. It had only been undertaken (along with diffusion and other technologies) to guarantee there would be enough material for use, whatever the cost. Its main eventual contribution to the war effort was to further concentrate material from the gaseous diffusion plants to even higher levels of purity. Since Rossi must vaporize the nickel anyway, little addition energy is required to select the nickel atoms the land on the micro-powder using mass spectrometry principles. see: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/Diagram_of_uranium_isotope_separation_in_the_calutron.png On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:30 PM, Arnaud Kodeck wrote: > Lovable : Is it an April fool ? (Look at the date of comment of Andrea > Rossi) > > **2. ** > Andrea Rossi > > April 1st, 2012 at 5:51 > PM<http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=614&cpage=1#comment-209521> > > > Dear Steven N. Karels: > *We use regular Ni, then we make series of treatment. The cost of > treatment is irrelevant compared to the energy produced.** > *Warm Regards, > A.R. > > ** ** > -- > > *From:* Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* mardi 21 mai 2013 20:23 > *To:* vortex-l > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, > 2011 Rossi Test > > ** ** > > > http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/110-quotes-by-rossi-about-gamma-rays-and-transmutations/ > > > > > 110+ Quotes by Rossi about Gamma Rays and Transmutations > > ** ** > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Axil Axil wrote: > > http://cold-fusion.ca/floridagate-puts-rossi-under-scrutiny-299000 > > > > *“Floridagate” puts Rossi under scrutiny* > > > > The matter was investigated by Mr James Stokes who reported “Dr Rossi > stated the active ingredients are powdered nickel and a tablet containing a > compound which releases hydrogen gas during the process. The output thermal > energy is six times the electrical energy input. He acknowledged that *no > nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons > in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device. There are no > radiation readings above background when the device is in operation.*Since > the device is not a reactor, the NRC does not have jurisdiction. Since > there is no radioactive materials used in the construction and no > radioactive waste is generated by it, the State of Florida, Bureau of > Radiation Control has no jurisdiction. *Currently, all production, > distribution and use of these devices is overseas.* Dr Rossi has arranged > to meet with Underwriter Laboratories (UL) to seek approval for > manufacturing in the United States.” > > ** ** > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, DJ Cravens wrote: > > > > Perhaps Rossi was adding some catalyst. > > For example, perhaps his source of Ni 62 is slightly radioactive (say it > was prepared via neutron activation of other Ni isotopes say there was > some Ni 63m in it). > > Then it might register when the catalyst was accessed. > > > > Dennis > > > -- > > From: arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, > 2011 Rossi Test > Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:26:01 +0200 > > ** ** > > Thank you Jed to remind me this exchange you had with Celani. I was not > fully aware of every detail. When I was readin
RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
Lovable : Is it an April fool ? (Look at the date of comment of Andrea Rossi) 2. Andrea Rossi <http://www.journal-of-nuclear-physics.com/?p=614&cpage=1#comment-209521> April 1st, 2012 at 5:51 PM Dear Steven N. Karels: We use regular Ni, then we make series of treatment. The cost of treatment is irrelevant compared to the energy produced. Warm Regards, A.R. _ From: Axil Axil [mailto:janap...@gmail.com] Sent: mardi 21 mai 2013 20:23 To: vortex-l Subject: Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/110-quotes-by-rossi-about-gamma-rays- and-transmutations/ 110+ Quotes by Rossi about Gamma Rays and Transmutations On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Axil Axil wrote: http://cold-fusion.ca/floridagate-puts-rossi-under-scrutiny-299000 Floridagate puts Rossi under scrutiny The matter was investigated by Mr James Stokes who reported Dr Rossi stated the active ingredients are powdered nickel and a tablet containing a compound which releases hydrogen gas during the process. The output thermal energy is six times the electrical energy input. He acknowledged that no nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device. There are no radiation readings above background when the device is in operation. Since the device is not a reactor, the NRC does not have jurisdiction. Since there is no radioactive materials used in the construction and no radioactive waste is generated by it, the State of Florida, Bureau of Radiation Control has no jurisdiction. Currently, all production, distribution and use of these devices is overseas. Dr Rossi has arranged to meet with Underwriter Laboratories (UL) to seek approval for manufacturing in the United States. On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, DJ Cravens wrote: Perhaps Rossi was adding some catalyst. For example, perhaps his source of Ni 62 is slightly radioactive (say it was prepared via neutron activation of other Ni isotopes say there was some Ni 63m in it). Then it might register when the catalyst was accessed. Dennis _ From: arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:26:01 +0200 Thank you Jed to remind me this exchange you had with Celani. I was not fully aware of every detail. When I was reading, an idea come to me mind. Could it be possible that the secret sauce of Rossi is a gamma emitter? I explain myself: Secretly, Rossi could have opened his reactor to adjust something inside then closed the reactor back. In the meantime, Celani detected an increase of gamma emission. A low frequency gamma (25~50 keV) could be easily shielded. If Rossi opened his reactor, then vacuum should be applied prior to reload with H2. The noise of a vacuum pump can not be hidden easily. Celani and al should have heard it as well. Rossi isnt fool to put air and H2 inside a closed vessel Unfortunately, we dont have the wavelength of the emission. I dont want to play the sceptic here. Can Celani say that he is sure that Rossi didnt open his reactor while they were waiting behind the door? _ From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: mardi 21 mai 2013 15:48 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test [Here is a message I posted in 2011] Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly above background from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detect something. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes and with corrections from Celani. Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at first. He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room with the device. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He had two battery-powered detectors: 1. A sodium iodide gamma detector (NaI), set for 1 s acquisition time. 2. A Geiger counter (model GEM Radalert II, Perspective Scientific), which was set to 10 s acquisition time. Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count mode rather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts per second. Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at that elevation. As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors were saturated. That is to say, they both registered counts off the scale. The following seconds the NaI detector returned to nomal. The Geiger counter had to be switched off to delete the overrange, which was >7.5 microsievert/hour, and later switched on again. About 1 to 2 minutes after this event, Rossi emerged from the other room
Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
http://shutdownrossi.com/e-cat-science/110-quotes-by-rossi-about-gamma-rays-and-transmutations/ 110+ Quotes by Rossi about Gamma Rays and Transmutations On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 2:19 PM, Axil Axil wrote: > http://cold-fusion.ca/floridagate-puts-rossi-under-scrutiny-299000 > > *“Floridagate” puts Rossi under scrutiny* > > The matter was investigated by Mr James Stokes who reported “Dr Rossi > stated the active ingredients are powdered nickel and a tablet containing a > compound which releases hydrogen gas during the process. The output thermal > energy is six times the electrical energy input. He acknowledged that *no > nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons > in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device. There are no > radiation readings above background when the device is in operation.*Since > the device is not a reactor, the NRC does not have jurisdiction. Since > there is no radioactive materials used in the construction and no > radioactive waste is generated by it, the State of Florida, Bureau of > Radiation Control has no jurisdiction. *Currently, all production, > distribution and use of these devices is overseas.* Dr Rossi has arranged > to meet with Underwriter Laboratories (UL) to seek approval for > manufacturing in the United States.” > > > On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, DJ Cravens wrote: > >> >> Perhaps Rossi was adding some catalyst. >> >> For example, perhaps his source of Ni 62 is slightly radioactive (say it >> was prepared via neutron activation of other Ni isotopes say there was >> some Ni 63m in it). >> >> Then it might register when the catalyst was accessed. >> >> >> >> Dennis**** >> >> >> ---------- >> From: arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be >> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com >> Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, >> 2011 Rossi Test >> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:26:01 +0200 >> >> >> Thank you Jed to remind me this exchange you had with Celani. I was not >> fully aware of every detail. When I was reading, an idea come to me mind. >> Could it be possible that the secret sauce of Rossi is a gamma emitter? I >> explain myself: Secretly, Rossi could have opened his reactor to adjust >> something inside then closed the reactor back. In the meantime, Celani >> detected an increase of gamma emission. A low frequency gamma (25~50 keV) >> could be easily shielded. If Rossi opened his reactor, then vacuum should >> be applied prior to reload with H2. The noise of a vacuum pump can not be >> hidden easily. Celani and al should have heard it as well. Rossi isn’t fool >> to put air and H2 inside a closed vessel … >> >> >> >> Unfortunately, we don’t have the wavelength of the emission. I don’t want >> to play the sceptic here. Can Celani say that he is sure that Rossi didn’t >> open his reactor while they were waiting behind the door? >> >> >> -- >> >> *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] >> *Sent:* mardi 21 mai 2013 15:48 >> *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com >> *Subject:* [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, >> 2011 Rossi Test >> >> >> >> [Here is a message I posted in 2011] >> >> >> >> Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test >> >> Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly above >> background from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detect >> something. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes >> and with corrections from Celani. >> >> Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at >> first. He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room >> with the device. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He >> had two battery-powered detectors: >> >> 1. A sodium iodide gamma detector (NaI), set for 1 s acquisition >> time. >> >> 2. A Geiger counter (model GEM Radalert II, Perspective Scientific), >> which was set to 10 s acquisition time. >> >> Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count >> mode rather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts >> per second. >> >> Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at that >> elevation. >> >> As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors >> were saturated. That is to say, they both registered
Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
http://cold-fusion.ca/floridagate-puts-rossi-under-scrutiny-299000 *“Floridagate” puts Rossi under scrutiny* The matter was investigated by Mr James Stokes who reported “Dr Rossi stated the active ingredients are powdered nickel and a tablet containing a compound which releases hydrogen gas during the process. The output thermal energy is six times the electrical energy input. He acknowledged that *no nuclear reactions occur during the process and that only low energy photons in the energy range 50-100 keV occur within the device. There are no radiation readings above background when the device is in operation.* Since the device is not a reactor, the NRC does not have jurisdiction. Since there is no radioactive materials used in the construction and no radioactive waste is generated by it, the State of Florida, Bureau of Radiation Control has no jurisdiction. *Currently, all production, distribution and use of these devices is overseas.* Dr Rossi has arranged to meet with Underwriter Laboratories (UL) to seek approval for manufacturing in the United States.” On Tue, May 21, 2013 at 1:52 PM, DJ Cravens wrote: > > Perhaps Rossi was adding some catalyst. > > For example, perhaps his source of Ni 62 is slightly radioactive (say it > was prepared via neutron activation of other Ni isotopes say there was > some Ni 63m in it). > > Then it might register when the catalyst was accessed. > > > > Dennis > > > -- > From: arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be > To: vortex-l@eskimo.com > Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, > 2011 Rossi Test > Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:26:01 +0200 > > > Thank you Jed to remind me this exchange you had with Celani. I was not > fully aware of every detail. When I was reading, an idea come to me mind. > Could it be possible that the secret sauce of Rossi is a gamma emitter? I > explain myself: Secretly, Rossi could have opened his reactor to adjust > something inside then closed the reactor back. In the meantime, Celani > detected an increase of gamma emission. A low frequency gamma (25~50 keV) > could be easily shielded. If Rossi opened his reactor, then vacuum should > be applied prior to reload with H2. The noise of a vacuum pump can not be > hidden easily. Celani and al should have heard it as well. Rossi isn’t fool > to put air and H2 inside a closed vessel … > > > > Unfortunately, we don’t have the wavelength of the emission. I don’t want > to play the sceptic here. Can Celani say that he is sure that Rossi didn’t > open his reactor while they were waiting behind the door? > > > -- > > *From:* Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* mardi 21 mai 2013 15:48 > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Subject:* [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, > 2011 Rossi Test > > > > [Here is a message I posted in 2011] > > > > Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test > > Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly above > background from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detect > something. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes > and with corrections from Celani. > > Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at > first. He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room > with the device. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He > had two battery-powered detectors: > > 1. A sodium iodide gamma detector (NaI), set for 1 s acquisition time. > > 2. A Geiger counter (model GEM Radalert II, Perspective Scientific), > which was set to 10 s acquisition time. > > Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count > mode rather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts > per second. > > Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at that > elevation. > > As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors > were saturated. That is to say, they both registered counts off the scale. > The following seconds the NaI detector returned to nomal. The Geiger > counter had to be switched off to “delete” the “overrange,” which was >7.5 > microsievert/hour, and later switched on again. > > About 1 to 2 minutes after this event, Rossi emerged from the other room > and said the machine just turned on and the demonstration was underway. > > Celani commented that the only conventional source of gamma rays far from > a nuclear reactor would be a rare event: a cosmic ray impact on the > atmosphere producing proton storm shower of particles. He and I agreed it > is extremel
Re: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
It is necessary to see radiation being emitted by the ECATs in a more controlled environment. Why assume that radiation is potentially a safety issue when it has not been detected except possibly in this one case? Are there other reports that can be correlated? Had Celani been in the room and seen an event that corresponded with the release then perhaps so. Jed may have found the correct idea when he joked that maybe the cosmic ray triggered both the instruments and Rossi's reactor at the same time. I suspect that no one would doubt that there is sufficient energy within a cosmic ray to trigger most nuclear events. I for one do not want to tag these LENR devices as being radiation sources unless they in fact are shown to be in that category. The limitations that apply under such a designation will seriously restrict their deployment. Dave -Original Message- From: DJ Cravens To: vortex-l Sent: Tue, May 21, 2013 1:52 pm Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Perhaps Rossiwas adding some catalyst. Forexample, perhaps his source of Ni 62 is slightly radioactive (say itwas prepared via neutron activation of other Ni isotopes saythere was some Ni 63m in it). Then it might registerwhen the catalyst was accessed. Dennis From: arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:26:01 +0200 Thank you Jed to remindme this exchange you had with Celani. I was not fully aware of every detail. WhenI was reading, an idea come to me mind. Could it be possible that the secretsauce of Rossi is a gamma emitter? I explain myself: Secretly, Rossi could haveopened his reactor to adjust something inside then closed the reactor back. In themeantime, Celani detected an increase of gamma emission. A low frequency gamma (25~50keV) could be easily shielded. If Rossi opened his reactor, then vacuum shouldbe applied prior to reload with H2. The noise of a vacuum pump can not be hiddeneasily. Celani and al should have heard it as well. Rossi isn’t fool toput air and H2 inside a closed vessel … Unfortunately, we don’thave the wavelength of the emission. I don’t want to play the sceptichere. Can Celani say that he is sure that Rossi didn’t open his reactorwhile they were waiting behind the door? From:Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: mardi 21 mai 2013 15:48 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Celani detects gammaemissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test [Here is a message I posted in 2011] Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly abovebackground from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detectsomething. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes andwith corrections from Celani. Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at first.He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room with thedevice. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He had twobattery-powered detectors: 1. A sodium iodide gamma detector (NaI), set for 1 sacquisition time. 2. A Geiger counter (model GEM Radalert II, PerspectiveScientific), which was set to 10 s acquisition time. Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count moderather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts persecond. Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at thatelevation. As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors weresaturated. That is to say, they both registered counts off the scale. Thefollowing seconds the NaI detector returned to nomal. The Geiger counter had tobe switched off to “delete” the “overrange,” which was>7.5 microsievert/hour, and later switched on again. About 1 to 2 minutes after this event, Rossi emerged from the other room andsaid the machine just turned on and the demonstration was underway. Celani commented that the only conventional source of gamma rays far from anuclear reactor would be a rare event: a cosmic ray impact on the atmosphereproducing proton storm shower of particles. He and I agreed it is extremelyunlikely this happened coincidentally the same moment the reactor started . . .Although, come to think of it, perhaps the causality is reversed, and thecosmic ray triggered the Rossi device. Another scientist said perhaps both detectors malfunctioned because of anelectromagnetic source in the building or some other prosaic source. Celaniconsiders this unrealistic because he also had in operation battery-operatedradio frequency detectors: an ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) and RF (COMenvironmental microwave monitor), both made by Perspective Scientific. No radiofrequency anomal
RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
Perhaps Rossi was adding some catalyst. For example, perhaps his source of Ni 62 is slightly radioactive (say it was prepared via neutron activation of other Ni isotopes say there was some Ni 63m in it). Then it might register when the catalyst was accessed. Dennis From: arnaud.kod...@lakoco.be To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 19:26:01 +0200 Thank you Jed to remind me this exchange you had with Celani. I was not fully aware of every detail. When I was reading, an idea come to me mind. Could it be possible that the secret sauce of Rossi is a gamma emitter? I explain myself: Secretly, Rossi could have opened his reactor to adjust something inside then closed the reactor back. In the meantime, Celani detected an increase of gamma emission. A low frequency gamma (25~50 keV) could be easily shielded. If Rossi opened his reactor, then vacuum should be applied prior to reload with H2. The noise of a vacuum pump can not be hidden easily. Celani and al should have heard it as well. Rossi isn’t fool to put air and H2 inside a closed vessel … Unfortunately, we don’t have the wavelength of the emission. I don’t want to play the sceptic here. Can Celani say that he is sure that Rossi didn’t open his reactor while they were waiting behind the door? From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: mardi 21 mai 2013 15:48 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test [Here is a message I posted in 2011] Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly above background from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detect something. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes and with corrections from Celani. Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at first. He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room with the device. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He had two battery-powered detectors: 1. A sodium iodide gamma detector (NaI), set for 1 s acquisition time. 2. A Geiger counter (model GEM Radalert II, Perspective Scientific), which was set to 10 s acquisition time. Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count mode rather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts per second. Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at that elevation. As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors were saturated. That is to say, they both registered counts off the scale. The following seconds the NaI detector returned to nomal. The Geiger counter had to be switched off to “delete” the “overrange,” which was >7.5 microsievert/hour, and later switched on again. About 1 to 2 minutes after this event, Rossi emerged from the other room and said the machine just turned on and the demonstration was underway. Celani commented that the only conventional source of gamma rays far from a nuclear reactor would be a rare event: a cosmic ray impact on the atmosphere producing proton storm shower of particles. He and I agreed it is extremely unlikely this happened coincidentally the same moment the reactor started . . . Although, come to think of it, perhaps the causality is reversed, and the cosmic ray triggered the Rossi device. Another scientist said perhaps both detectors malfunctioned because of an electromagnetic source in the building or some other prosaic source. Celani considers this unrealistic because he also had in operation battery-operated radio frequency detectors: an ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) and RF (COM environmental microwave monitor), both made by Perspective Scientific. No radio frequency anomalies were detected. I remarked that it is also unrealistic because the two gamma detectors are battery powered and they work on different principles. The scientist pointed to neutron detectors in an early cold fusion experiment that malfunctioned at a certain time of day every day because some equipment in the laboratory building was turned on every day. That sort of thing can happen with neutron detectors, which are finicky, but this Geiger counter is used for safety monitoring. Such devices have to be rugged and reliable or they will not keep you safe, so I doubt it is easy to fool one of them. Celani expresses some reservations about the reality of the Rossi device. Given his detector results I think it would be more appropriate for him to question the safety of it. When Celani went in to see the experiment in action, he brought out the sodium iodide detector and prepared to change it to spectrum mode, which would give him more information about the ongo
RE: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
Thank you Jed to remind me this exchange you had with Celani. I was not fully aware of every detail. When I was reading, an idea come to me mind. Could it be possible that the secret sauce of Rossi is a gamma emitter? I explain myself: Secretly, Rossi could have opened his reactor to adjust something inside then closed the reactor back. In the meantime, Celani detected an increase of gamma emission. A low frequency gamma (25~50 keV) could be easily shielded. If Rossi opened his reactor, then vacuum should be applied prior to reload with H2. The noise of a vacuum pump can not be hidden easily. Celani and al should have heard it as well. Rossi isnt fool to put air and H2 inside a closed vessel Unfortunately, we dont have the wavelength of the emission. I dont want to play the sceptic here. Can Celani say that he is sure that Rossi didnt open his reactor while they were waiting behind the door? _ From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: mardi 21 mai 2013 15:48 To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test [Here is a message I posted in 2011] Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly above background from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detect something. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes and with corrections from Celani. Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at first. He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room with the device. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He had two battery-powered detectors: 1. A sodium iodide gamma detector (NaI), set for 1 s acquisition time. 2. A Geiger counter (model GEM Radalert II, Perspective Scientific), which was set to 10 s acquisition time. Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count mode rather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts per second. Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at that elevation. As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors were saturated. That is to say, they both registered counts off the scale. The following seconds the NaI detector returned to nomal. The Geiger counter had to be switched off to delete the overrange, which was >7.5 microsievert/hour, and later switched on again. About 1 to 2 minutes after this event, Rossi emerged from the other room and said the machine just turned on and the demonstration was underway. Celani commented that the only conventional source of gamma rays far from a nuclear reactor would be a rare event: a cosmic ray impact on the atmosphere producing proton storm shower of particles. He and I agreed it is extremely unlikely this happened coincidentally the same moment the reactor started . . . Although, come to think of it, perhaps the causality is reversed, and the cosmic ray triggered the Rossi device. Another scientist said perhaps both detectors malfunctioned because of an electromagnetic source in the building or some other prosaic source. Celani considers this unrealistic because he also had in operation battery-operated radio frequency detectors: an ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) and RF (COM environmental microwave monitor), both made by Perspective Scientific. No radio frequency anomalies were detected. I remarked that it is also unrealistic because the two gamma detectors are battery powered and they work on different principles. The scientist pointed to neutron detectors in an early cold fusion experiment that malfunctioned at a certain time of day every day because some equipment in the laboratory building was turned on every day. That sort of thing can happen with neutron detectors, which are finicky, but this Geiger counter is used for safety monitoring. Such devices have to be rugged and reliable or they will not keep you safe, so I doubt it is easy to fool one of them. Celani expresses some reservations about the reality of the Rossi device. Given his detector results I think it would be more appropriate for him to question the safety of it. When Celani went in to see the experiment in action, he brought out the sodium iodide detector and prepared to change it to spectrum mode, which would give him more information about the ongoing reaction. Rossi objected vociferously, saying the spectrum would give Celani (or anyone else who see it), all they need to know to replicate the machine and steal Ross's intellectual property. Celani later groused that there is no point to inviting scientists to a demo if you have no intentions of letter them use their own instruments. (Note, however, that Levi et al. did use their own instruments.) Jacques Dufour also attended the demonstration. He does not speak much Italian, so he could not follow the discussion.
[Vo]:Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test
[Here is a message I posted in 2011] Celani detects gamma emissions during the January 14, 2011 Rossi Test Villa reported no gamma emissions or other radiation significantly above background from the Rossi device. Celani, however, said that he did detect something. Here are the details he related to me at ICCF16, from my notes and with corrections from Celani. Celani attended the demonstration on Jan. 14. The device did not work at first. He and others were waiting impatiently in a room next to the room with the device. He estimates that he was around 6 m from the device. He had two battery-powered detectors: 1. A sodium iodide gamma detector (NaI), set for 1 s acquisition time. 2. A Geiger counter (model GEM Radalert II, Perspective Scientific), which was set to 10 s acquisition time. Both were turned on as he waited. The sodium iodide detector was in count mode rather than spectrum mode; that is, it just tells the number of counts per second. Both showed what Celani considers normal background for Italy at that elevation. As he was waiting, suddenly, during a 1-second interval both detectors were saturated. That is to say, they both registered counts off the scale. The following seconds the NaI detector returned to nomal. The Geiger counter had to be switched off to “delete” the “overrange,” which was >7.5 microsievert/hour, and later switched on again. About 1 to 2 minutes after this event, Rossi emerged from the other room and said the machine just turned on and the demonstration was underway. Celani commented that the only conventional source of gamma rays far from a nuclear reactor would be a rare event: a cosmic ray impact on the atmosphere producing proton storm shower of particles. He and I agreed it is extremely unlikely this happened coincidentally the same moment the reactor started . . . Although, come to think of it, perhaps the causality is reversed, and the cosmic ray triggered the Rossi device. Another scientist said perhaps both detectors malfunctioned because of an electromagnetic source in the building or some other prosaic source. Celani considers this unrealistic because he also had in operation battery-operated radio frequency detectors: an ELF (Extremely Low Frequency) and RF (COM environmental microwave monitor), both made by Perspective Scientific. No radio frequency anomalies were detected. I remarked that it is also unrealistic because the two gamma detectors are battery powered and they work on different principles. The scientist pointed to neutron detectors in an early cold fusion experiment that malfunctioned at a certain time of day every day because some equipment in the laboratory building was turned on every day. That sort of thing can happen with neutron detectors, which are finicky, but this Geiger counter is used for safety monitoring. Such devices have to be rugged and reliable or they will not keep you safe, so I doubt it is easy to fool one of them. Celani expresses some reservations about the reality of the Rossi device. Given his detector results I think it would be more appropriate for him to question the safety of it. When Celani went in to see the experiment in action, he brought out the sodium iodide detector and prepared to change it to spectrum mode, which would give him more information about the ongoing reaction. Rossi objected vociferously, saying the spectrum would give Celani (or anyone else who see it), all they need to know to replicate the machine and steal Ross's intellectual property. Celani later groused that there is no point to inviting scientists to a demo if you have no intentions of letter them use their own instruments. (Note, however, that Levi et al. did use their own instruments.) Jacques Dufour also attended the demonstration. He does not speak much Italian, so he could not follow the discussion. He made some observations, including one that I consider important, namely that the outlet pipe was far too hot to touch. That means the temperature of it was over 70 deg C. That, in turn, proves there was considerable excess heat. McKubre and others have said the outlet temperature sensor was too close to the body of the device. Others have questioned whether the steam was really dry or not. If the question is whether the machine really produced heat or not, these factors can be ignored. All you need to know is the temperature of the tap water going in (15°C), the flow rate and the power input (400 W). At that power level the outlet pipe would be ~30°C. Celani points out that the input power was quite unstable, fluctuating between 400 and 800 W, but it was still not large enough to explain the excess heat. Celani did not see the steam emerge from the end of the pipe, but he reported the whistling sound of steam passing through the pipe. I think there is no question the water boiled, and much of it was vaporized, so there was massive excess heat. Celani complained that phase-change calorimetry is too complicated, but
