Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Alan Fletcher]

ICCF Prgram updated :

http://iccf18.research.missouri.edu/program.php

Tuesday : 
9:00 - 9:10 am  Demonstration: Defkalion Reactor Startup
2:30 - 3:00 pm  Demonstration: Defkalion Questions and Answers
5:30 - 5:40 pm  Demonstration: Defkalion Closing Remarks

?? Live? Video Feed? ??

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[blaze spinnaker]

http://www.drboblog.com/defkalion-public-demonstration/

Unconfirmed, but public demos might be in Vancouver and Milano.
 Supposedly there will be announcements on EGO OUT and Defkalion website.
>From drboblog:


*Breaking News:

Defkalion Green Technologies have arranged for two public demonstrations
during next week.
This company originates from Greece but struggled with fundings and left
for Canada last year because of the delicate economic situation in their
home country.

Company will perform 2 demos from 2 different locations (Vancouver and
Milano) during next week.
First demonstration 22 July 2013
For European Audience the demos will be 23rd July. (possible earlier)

http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

Before these demonstrations announcements will be made on EGO OUT and
Defkalions webpages.

It is the companies R5 reactor that will be tested and science journals and
skeptics have been invited to participate.  Lets hope for the best… God
Bless!*

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[James Bowery]

The odds of this group returning a positive report are higher than for
other skeptics societies due to potential co-national bias. The appearance
of a conflict of interest would be enough to provide an excuse for the
PSICOPs to ignore the report -- although PSICOPs might not go so far as to
denounce a sibling group in Italy.


On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Terry Blanton  wrote:

> The American version:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_Skeptical_Inquiry
>
> fondly referred to as PSICOPs.
>

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Terry Blanton]

The American version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_for_Skeptical_Inquiry

fondly referred to as PSICOPs.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2013-07-16 22:58, H Veeder wrote:

Copied from  a facebook group.
Harry
Officially confirmed.


A couple more links in Italian confirming this news, but not exactly 
adding yet a whole lot of new details:


http://22passi.blogspot.it/2013/07/fusione-fredda-diretta-streaming-22.html
http://www.triwu.it/sezione-in-primo-piano/-/asset_publisher/E9rU/content/la-fusione-fredda-va-online

Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[blaze spinnaker]

This was on their website (see italian below).   Had to dig it out of
google cache though.  It'll be interesting to get the names of the
individuals that show up at the demo.

Patenting cold 
fusion
Query  - Mon, 05/20/2013
- 09:57

On April 16 the patent office of the United States of America issued the
license number US8419919B1 to a project entitled *System and method for
generating particles* (system and method for the generation of
particles). Behind the name maybe unattractive but is hiding yet another
return to the glory of cold fusion. In an article in the weekly
investigation *Left* on May 11 **(
here
 is
an excerpt from the site of the head and
here
 the
full text in press), we read:

He had to change his name, such as inconvenient witnesses. But after 24
years of ignominy, cold fusion got his first official recognition by the
U.S. government: April 16 the U.S. Patent Office has awarded the "United
States of America represented by the Secretary of the Navy 'a license from
the title" System and method for generating particles. "

The processes postulated a time with the name of *cold fusion* are today
more properly indicated with the acronym LENR, or *Low Energy Nuclear
Reactions* (low energy nuclear reactions). This detail "master" has nothing
to do with but a witch hunt against the cold fusion, but rather a matter of
rigor: nuclear fusion is in fact only one of the possible nuclear reactions
with energy release and particle production.

Another, more general issue concerns the patent system. Over and over again
we come across inventions often of dubious value and functioning of doubt
which purports to give credibility and scientific foundation based on the
fact that you have obtained a patent. A patent is not in any way a
substitute for a scientific paper in *peer review* and is not a statement
of recognition of the operation by the state issuing it. What is recognized
with the patent as a result of the periodic payment of a tax, it is only
the authorship of the invention filed together with the legal rights
associated with it (which vary depending on the case). In any case, the
Patent Office does not check (and can not verify, serve encyclopedic
knowledge) that the invention functions.

Obtain a patent for an invention is, therefore, much easier than to
recognize a theory by the scientific community through the proper process
of experimentation and publication of the results and it is for this reason
that the patent was often used as a ploy to make public and a sense
official theory or discovery controversial as in the case in question, in
fact patented a method or a tool suggesting that, since this would only
work if the underlying theory was valid, the acceptance of the patent also
includes a ' implicit acceptance of the validity of the theory. From the
reading of a patent is not possible to evaluate the correctness of the
assumptions behind them, and, in the case of repeating, there is no
guarantee that the invention behaves as alleged.

One described in the patent April 16 (
here a
copy pdf) is a system manufacturer / particle detector (presumably protons
and alpha particles): revelation is entrusted to the CR-39, a plastic
material already widely used in applications dosimetric as well as in
optical (unbreakable lenses for spectacles are made with this material),
while the production is essentially the prerogative of an electrolytic cell
with Palladium salts in heavy water. On one of the two electrodes is
realized a deposition of Palladium, which, according to the theorists of
LENR, would act as a trap for protons or deuterons enabling the achievement
of concentrations sufficient to reactions to occur at low energy. Details
aside, nothing particularly innovative compared to the cell of Fleischmann
and Pons in 1989. The only effective novelty consists in coupling the
normal electric field power of the cell with a magnetic field, a technical
solution, which should make the advantage of greater speed in the filing
process.

As said, then, it seems that the recent obtaining a patent, on the other
queued since 2007, adds much to the discussion on the existence of LENR and
on their validity as an energy source. We can certainly speak of an
official recognition from either the United States government, nor by the
scientific community.
Categories: Latest from the
web

Brevettare la fusione
fredda
Query  - Mon, 05/20/2013
- 09:57

Lo scorso 16 Aprile l’ufficio brevetti degli Stati Uniti d’America ha
assegnato la licenza 

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Alain Sepeda]

right.

for the mainstream deniers who parrot the few leaders MIT/Caltech/Harwell,
it is evident that it is paranormal claim..
So skeptic society member like Essen are usefull

It is right that best would be to send experts in energy... like Elforsk...

all that shows that fullfilling any demand of the deniers is hopeless...

the only solution for me is  to FORCE THEM to swallow the crow, but showing
to the public (who is honestly thomasian, ie: accept what they can touch)
that it work...
add to that that it make someone rich ...

and the hypercritics who are simply ambitious will save their career
accepting the facts...

the others will develop conspiracy society to save their theory from
reality...


2013/7/17 Akira Shirakawa 

> On 2013-07-17 03:50, blaze spinnaker wrote:
>
>  They should be sending in engineers from companies which specialize in
>> calorimetry and power measurement.
>>
>
> Cynical skeptics have often complained that a magician or some sort of
> fraud expert should have been present during public LENR demos to check for
> possible tricks that regular scientists couldn't think of. Their wish has
> been fulfilled.
>
> Cheers,
> S.A.
>
>

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Eric Walker]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 10:39 PM, David Roberson  wrote:

 I suppose that now that the scam detection squad is going to be involved
> the the skeptics will completely go away.  For some reason I suspect that
> the bar will be raised as usual.
>

I agree.  Even if this skeptical group were to sign off on a completely
clean demonstration and a clear indication of heat above what is put into
the device, it is hard to imagine that that would sway other committed
skeptics.  (With regard to Defkalion, I have little sense of the relative
efficacy of their technology.)

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Alan Fletcher]

> From: "David Roberson" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 10:39:17 PM
> 
> I suppose that now that the scam detection squad is going to be
> involved the the skeptics will completely go away. For some reason I
> suspect that the bar will be raised as usual.

Recall that Kullander was ex-president of the Swedish Skeptics.  (And he didn't 
even bring his own instruments to the test.)

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[David Roberson]

I suppose that now that the scam detection squad is going to be involved the 
the skeptics will completely go away.  For some reason I suspect that the bar 
will be raised as usual.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: Akira Shirakawa 
To: vortex-l 
Sent: Tue, Jul 16, 2013 10:44 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed


On 2013-07-17 03:50, blaze spinnaker wrote:

> They should be sending in engineers from companies which specialize in
> calorimetry and power measurement.

Cynical skeptics have often complained that a magician or some sort of 
fraud expert should have been present during public LENR demos to check 
for possible tricks that regular scientists couldn't think of. Their 
wish has been fulfilled.

Cheers,
S.A.


 

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Alan Fletcher]

> From: "Rob Dingemans" 
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2013 5:50:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially

> It looks a bit to me that somebody pulled this organization into the
> game to make the claims ridiculous, which in turn could work as a
> boomerang and could result in people not taking CICAP serious at
> all.

Well, here ARE three (or is it four) miracles to be explained.

> In Dutch we would say "schoenmaker blijf bij je leest", as in my
> perception the phenomena have nothing to do with any paranormal
> claims whatever.

Hey, I understood that!

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2013-07-17 03:50, blaze spinnaker wrote:


They should be sending in engineers from companies which specialize in
calorimetry and power measurement.


Cynical skeptics have often complained that a magician or some sort of 
fraud expert should have been present during public LENR demos to check 
for possible tricks that regular scientists couldn't think of. Their 
wish has been fulfilled.


Cheers,
S.A.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Akira Shirakawa]

On 2013-07-17 02:50, Rob Dingemans wrote:


It looks a bit to me that somebody pulled this organization into the
game to make the claims ridiculous, which in turn could work as a
boomerang and could result in people not taking CICAP serious at all.
In Dutch we would say "schoenmaker blijf bij je leest", as in my
perception the phenomena have nothing to do with any paranormal claims
whatever.


Think of this organization as a some sort of Italian counterpart of the 
JREF [1] without the 1-million dollar prize. They are known debunkers of 
paranormal and pseudoscientific claims and generally are highly regarded 
in the local mainstream media. As far as I know they rarely investigate 
claims they're not sure they can debunk or scientifically put under a 
bad light.


In addition to their main website [2] (the English version previously 
linked is quite outdated) they have a relatively frequently updated blog 
version of their official magazine [3] where they covered cold fusion 
claims a few times in the past years.


There's also a wikipedia page about them [4], for what it's worth.

Cheers,
S.A.

[1] http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/about-the-foundation.html
[2] http://www.cicap.org (in Italian)
[3] http://www.queryonline.it/ (in Italian)
[4] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CICAP

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Daniel Rocha]

They are trying to show that they are not doing magic tricks. Like, hidden
wires, tubes, etc.


2013/7/16 blaze spinnaker 

>
> Paranormal = XFiles / Ghosts / Aliens / etc.
>
> They're sending Mulder and Sculley in to investigate Defkalion?
>
> They should be sending in engineers from companies which specialize in
> calorimetry and power measurement.
>
> Maybe Paranormal means something different in italian, but man, that's
> just wild.
>
> It doesn't matter what they discover, the reputation of Defkalion and LENR
> just dropped measurably.
>
> Hopefully the other scientists that will be showing up are a little more
> credible.
>
>
>


-- 
Daniel Rocha - RJ
danieldi...@gmail.com

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Eric Walker]

On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 6:50 PM, blaze spinnaker
wrote:

It doesn't matter what they discover, the reputation of Defkalion
>

Perhaps.  This may have just been something they were approached about by
the paranormal investigators, and they thought they would try to spin it
up.  (I wonder whether we are just scratching our heads over something that
is more equivalent to a "skeptics society".)


> and LENR just dropped measurably.
>

How so?

Eric

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[blaze spinnaker]

I

> CICAP:  *ICAP, the Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims on
>> the Paranormal,* promotes a scientific and critical enquiry of supposed
>> paranormal and mysterious phenomena
>>
>
> Your point is?
>
> Are you opposed to investigating mysterious phenomena? Or in favor of it?
>

Paranormal = XFiles / Ghosts / Aliens / etc.

They're sending Mulder and Sculley in to investigate Defkalion?

They should be sending in engineers from companies which specialize in
calorimetry and power measurement.

Maybe Paranormal means something different in italian, but man, that's just
wild.

It doesn't matter what they discover, the reputation of Defkalion and LENR
just dropped measurably.

Hopefully the other scientists that will be showing up are a little more
credible.

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Jed Rothwell]

Rob Dingemans  wrote:


> I don't think that's the point that Blaze is trying to make.
> It seems to me that an organization that is mainly focused on
> investigating paranormal activities is out of it's league in this case.
>

Ah. Good point.

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Rob Dingemans]

Hi,

On 17-7-2013 2:27, Jed Rothwell wrote:
blaze spinnaker > wrote:


"as well as a member of the Cicap."

CICAP: *ICAP, the Italian Committee for the Investigation of
Claims on the Paranormal,* promotes a scientific and critical
enquiry of supposed paranormal and mysterious phenomena


Your point is?

Are you opposed to investigating mysterious phenomena? Or in favor of it?


I don't think that's the point that Blaze is trying to make.
It seems to me that an organization that is mainly focused on 
investigating paranormal activities is out of it's league in this case.


It looks a bit to me that somebody pulled this organization into the 
game to make the claims ridiculous, which in turn could work as a 
boomerang and could result in people not taking CICAP serious at all.
In Dutch we would say "schoenmaker blijf bij je leest", as in my 
perception the phenomena have nothing to do with any paranormal claims 
whatever.


Kind regards,

Rob

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[Jed Rothwell]

blaze spinnaker  wrote:

"as well as a member of the Cicap."
>
> CICAP:  *ICAP, the Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims on
> the Paranormal,* promotes a scientific and critical enquiry of supposed
> paranormal and mysterious phenomena
>

Your point is?

Are you opposed to investigating mysterious phenomena? Or in favor of it?

- Jed

Re: [Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[blaze spinnaker]

"as well as a member of the Cicap."

CICAP:  *ICAP, the Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims on the
Paranormal,* promotes a scientific and critical enquiry of supposed
paranormal and mysterious phenomena

http://www.cicap.org/en/index.php



On Tue, Jul 16, 2013 at 1:58 PM, H Veeder  wrote:

> Copied from  a facebook group.
> Harry
>
>
> Officially confirmed.
>
> Roberta De Carolis (Tuesday, 16 July 2013 12:28).
> The CEO of Defkalion Europe Franco Cappiello wrote to us:
> "There will be an official announcement of this technology during ICCF 18
> (International Conference Cold Fusion 18) at the University of Missouri
> (USA). For those interested you can see this webcast of all phases of the
> experiment , ignition, performance and switching off. Two independent
> scientists and two science journalists at international level will
> participate in this broadcast, as well as a member of the Cicap. "
>
>
> http://www.nextme.it/scienza/energia/6016-fusione-fredda-e-cat-defkalion-annuncio-fine-luglio
>

[Vo]:Defkalion webcast officially confirmed

[H Veeder]

Copied from  a facebook group.
Harry


Officially confirmed.

Roberta De Carolis (Tuesday, 16 July 2013 12:28).
The CEO of Defkalion Europe Franco Cappiello wrote to us:
"There will be an official announcement of this technology during ICCF 18
(International Conference Cold Fusion 18) at the University of Missouri
(USA). For those interested you can see this webcast of all phases of the
experiment , ignition, performance and switching off. Two independent
scientists and two science journalists at international level will
participate in this broadcast, as well as a member of the Cicap. "

http://www.nextme.it/scienza/energia/6016-fusione-fredda-e-cat-defkalion-annuncio-fine-luglio