[Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
Hi The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system can not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It becomes divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic coordinate. Covariance can thus be forgotten. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate system gives different values? David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
I do not agree that the choice of coordinate systems changes the physics of any experiment. I only see the coordinate system chosen as a way to locate the position and other position derivatives of a body. Could you explain how the Madelung constant would relate to real world effects? Dave -Original Message- From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:42 pm Subject: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates Hi The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system can not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It becomes divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic coordinate. Covariance can thus be forgotten. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate system gives different values? David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
Newton's laws in spherical coordinates Sure... why not? Give it a try and report back. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:26 PM, David Roberson wrote: > I do not agree that the choice of coordinate systems changes the physics > of any experiment. I only see the coordinate system chosen as a way to > locate the position and other position derivatives of a body. > > Could you explain how the Madelung constant would relate to real world > effects? > > Dave > > > -Original Message- > From: David Jonsson > To: vortex-l > Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:42 pm > Subject: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates > > Hi > > The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system > can not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It > becomes divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic > coordinate. Covariance can thus be forgotten. > > Check > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant > > Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate > system gives different values? > > David > > > David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370 > > > > > >
Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
I imagine that Newton's laws would be difficult to understand in certain coordinate systems but that does not suggest that they fail to function. Are you implying that the laws of physics work or not depending upon the view point? I contend that the real world does not care what coordinate system we select to observe it as our choice is merely for our convenience. Maybe we are not discussing the same issue. Dave -Original Message- From: James Bowery To: vortex-l Sent: Fri, Mar 2, 2012 3:45 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates Newton's laws in spherical coordinates Sure... why not? Give it a try and report back. On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:26 PM, David Roberson wrote: I do not agree that the choice of coordinate systems changes the physics of any experiment. I only see the coordinate system chosen as a way to locate the position and other position derivatives of a body. Could you explain how the Madelung constant would relate to real world effects? Dave -Original Message- From: David Jonsson To: vortex-l Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:42 pm Subject: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates Hi The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system can not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It becomes divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic coordinate. Covariance can thus be forgotten. Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate system gives different values? David David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
At the top of the cited wiki page, it starts with the simplifying assumption of *point* charges. Perhaps the discrepancy would disappear with a more realistic model of charges. I dunno. Ask a mathematician. Harry On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 11:03 AM, David Roberson wrote: > I imagine that Newton's laws would be difficult to understand in certain > coordinate systems but that does not suggest that they fail to function. > Are you implying that the laws of physics work or not depending upon the > view point? I contend that the real world does not care what coordinate > system we select to observe it as our choice is merely for our convenience. > Maybe we are not discussing the same issue. > > Dave > > > -Original Message- > From: James Bowery > To: vortex-l > Sent: Fri, Mar 2, 2012 3:45 am > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates > > Newton's laws in spherical coordinates > > Sure... why not? > > Give it a try and report back. > > On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:26 PM, David Roberson wrote: >> >> I do not agree that the choice of coordinate systems changes the physics >> of any experiment. I only see the coordinate system chosen as a way to >> locate the position and other position derivatives of a body. >> >> Could you explain how the Madelung constant would relate to real world >> effects? >> >> Dave >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: David Jonsson >> To: vortex-l >> Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:42 pm >> Subject: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates >> >> Hi >> >> The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system can >> not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It becomes >> divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic coordinate. >> Covariance can thus be forgotten. >> >> Check >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant >> >> Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate >> system gives different values? >> >> David >> >> >> David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370 >> >> >> >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
I'm only pointing out a practical consideration that is central to science. If you can't communicate you relinquish reproducibility. On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 10:03 AM, David Roberson wrote: > I imagine that Newton's laws would be difficult to understand in certain > coordinate systems but that does not suggest that they fail to function. > Are you implying that the laws of physics work or not depending upon the > view point? I contend that the real world does not care what coordinate > system we select to observe it as our choice is merely for our > convenience. Maybe we are not discussing the same issue. > > Dave > > > -Original Message- > From: James Bowery > To: vortex-l > Sent: Fri, Mar 2, 2012 3:45 am > Subject: Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates > > Newton's laws in spherical coordinates > > Sure... why not? > > Give it a try and report back. > > On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:26 PM, David Roberson wrote: > >> I do not agree that the choice of coordinate systems changes the physics >> of any experiment. I only see the coordinate system chosen as a way to >> locate the position and other position derivatives of a body. >> >> Could you explain how the Madelung constant would relate to real world >> effects? >> >> Dave >> >> >> -----Original Message- >> From: David Jonsson >> To: vortex-l >> Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:42 pm >> Subject: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates >> >> Hi >> >> The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system >> can not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It >> becomes divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic >> coordinate. Covariance can thus be forgotten. >> >> Check >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant >> >> Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate >> system gives different values? >> >> David >> >> >> David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370 >> >> >> >> >> >> >
Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates
One's choice of coordinate systems is entirely arbitrary... It's a mathematical tool you choose to suit the problem at hand, not linked to nature in any physical way. On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 7:44 PM, James Bowery wrote: > I'm only pointing out a practical consideration that is central to science. > If you can't communicate you relinquish reproducibility. > > > On Fri, Mar 2, 2012 at 10:03 AM, David Roberson wrote: >> >> I imagine that Newton's laws would be difficult to understand in certain >> coordinate systems but that does not suggest that they fail to function. >> Are you implying that the laws of physics work or not depending upon the >> view point? I contend that the real world does not care what coordinate >> system we select to observe it as our choice is merely for our convenience. >> Maybe we are not discussing the same issue. >> >> Dave >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: James Bowery >> To: vortex-l >> Sent: Fri, Mar 2, 2012 3:45 am >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates >> >> Newton's laws in spherical coordinates >> >> Sure... why not? >> >> Give it a try and report back. >> >> On Wed, Feb 29, 2012 at 10:26 PM, David Roberson >> wrote: >>> >>> I do not agree that the choice of coordinate systems changes the physics >>> of any experiment. I only see the coordinate system chosen as a way to >>> locate the position and other position derivatives of a body. >>> >>> Could you explain how the Madelung constant would relate to real world >>> effects? >>> >>> Dave >>> >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: David Jonsson >>> To: vortex-l >>> Sent: Wed, Feb 29, 2012 6:42 pm >>> Subject: [Vo]:Physice depends on choice of coordinates >>> >>> Hi >>> >>> The wish and desire of having physics independent of coordinate system >>> can not be met nor fulfilled. The Madelung constant is proof of this. It >>> becomes divergent in spherical coordinates and convergent in cubic >>> coordinate. Covariance can thus be forgotten. >>> >>> Check >>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madelung_constant >>> >>> Are there any other examples of this effect where choice of coordinate >>> system gives different values? >>> >>> David >>> >>> >>> David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >
