RE: [Vo]:- no blank run without hydrogen to test the instruments and heat losses: Mary Yugo: Rich Murray 2011.10.29

2011-10-29 Thread OrionWorks - Steven Vincent Johnson
From Mr. Murray,

...

 er, I'm still a pragmatic skeptic re 470 KW Rossi claim...

Hello Rich,

Lately, I've noticed that you have repeatedly prefaced your posts with
claims that not only are you a skeptic, but that you are a pragmatic
skeptic.  I keep wondering who you really are trying to convince of this
claim. Is it really for our benefit?

Regards,
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks



Re: [Vo]:- no blank run without hydrogen to test the instruments and heat losses: Mary Yugo: Rich Murray 2011.10.29

2011-10-29 Thread Jed Rothwell
Regarding the title of this thread, it is ridiculous. HVAC engineers do not
do blank runs when they certify 1 MW boiler performance. That's not how
they work. As I said, that is like expecting a bridge inspector to construct
another bridge next to the one he is inspecting, in order to compare the
two.

Do you think an aircraft inspector drags in a blank Boeing 747 to compare
it? When they inspect an airplane and find a problem, do you think they
deliberately crash it to confirm it really is a problem?

Scientists do blanks. Industrial engineers do not. The do not need to prove
the thing does not work under some circumstances, but only that it is
working now.

This is not skeptical thinking. It is ignorant. Learn something about how
people do things in industry.

- Jed


Re: [Vo]:- no blank run without hydrogen to test the instruments and heat losses: Mary Yugo: Rich Murray 2011.10.29

2011-10-29 Thread Rich Murray
Hi Steven Vincent Johnson,

Yes, I use pragmatic skepticism to define my role in my own mind,
namely, common sense applied to details that can be comprehended by a
scientific layman, which since December, 1996 has been a successful
strategy for finding flaws in CF research -- pathological skeptic
does not apply to me, who wants CF to be real via evidence, and who is
hardly hidebound by dogmas of any kind on any level, heartily
convinced by experience that reality is immediately infinitely
creative and subtle...

I am content to let my Achilles take over the fight:

http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/10/28/energy-catalzyer-extraordinary-scams-require-extraordinary-claims/#comments

Joshua Cude says:

October 29, 2011 at 22:39

In addition to Maryyugo’s reservations about this show, I can add that
even if the data, as presented, is accepted, it does not constitute
evidence for excess heat, let alone heat from nuclear reactions:

1. No evidence is presented that the water is all converted to steam.
Rossi says he collects the unconverted water, but gives no explanation
how. The steam is at 105 C or so, but the internal pressure is almost
certain to be significantly elevated by even a small amount of steam
formation. Moreover, given the size of the pipes, a full conversion to
steam is at 650 kg/hour is not plausible. The only thing the data show
definitively is that the water is heated to 105 C, and that
corresponds to a total output heat of about 370 kWh instead of the
2635 kWh claimed.

2. The total input heat is not given. The input heat from 12:30 to
18:00 is given as 66 kWh (during the “self-sustained” period). But
according to the spreadsheet, the heat was turned on at 10:30. The
report does not indicate the power level, but it would only have to be
about 150 kW (for 2 hours) to account for the total output energy as
calculated in (1). Since there was a 500 kW diesel generator on site,
this seems perfectly feasible, and it is also consistent with the
power level Rossi said would be used to ignite the reaction. Finally,
we don’t know if the device was still retaining heat from earlier
runs. After all, the water was heated from 15 to 30 degrees at time
zero.