RE: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Slow neutrons react with a large variety of isotopes. e.a., boron naturally 
occurring isotopes, cadmium, hafnium, used in fission reactor control to absorb 
them. They do leave a radioactive isotope which frequently emits energetic EM 
radiation in its decay.

That is not typical of LENR.  I would say the slow neutron reaction is like a 
regular 2-body reaction with low momentum during a cold temperature reaction 
with a “target” isotope exhibiting the appropriate resonant motion to couple 
with the slow neutron

Bob Cook


From: JonesBeene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Sunday, January 12, 2020 9:58 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: RE: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

Hi,

Well Miley himself was fully invested in the Fusor device  (and sold his 
neutron generating company to Daimler)

AFAIK he never mentioned that LENR was involved in that technology and if 
anyone should know – it is him.

The W-L theory predicts extremely low momentum neutrons - which somehow avoid 
thermalization. Thus they would presimably never escape a reactor.

Jones

From: Nicholas Palmer<mailto:greendirectionconsult...@googlemail.com>

Here's a voice from the past...

Did anyone ever consider using a Farnsworth Fusor as a source of low energy 
neutrons to catalyse the putative Widom-Larsen pathway to LENR?

Nick Palmer

Jed Rothwell wrote:
QUOTE:

Final FY20 Appropriations: National Science Foundation
Low-energy nuclear reactions. The House report encourages NSF to “evaluate the 
various theories, experiments, and scientific literature surrounding the field 
of LENR,” which is most associated with the pursuit of cold 
fusion<https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/1.1881896>. It also 
directs NSF to “provide a set of recommendations as to whether future federal 
investment into LENR research would be prudent, and if so, a plan for how that 
investment would be best utilized.”

https://www.aip.org/fyi/2020/final-fy20-appropriations-national-science-foundation


Nothing will come of this.

RE: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[JonesBeene]

Hi,

Well Miley himself was fully invested in the Fusor device  (and sold his 
neutron generating company to Daimler)

AFAIK he never mentioned that LENR was involved in that technology and if 
anyone should know – it is him.

The W-L theory predicts extremely low momentum neutrons - which somehow avoid 
thermalization. Thus they would presimably never escape a reactor.

Jones

From: Nicholas Palmer

Here's a voice from the past...


Did anyone ever consider using a Farnsworth Fusor as a source of low energy 
neutrons to catalyse the putative Widom-Larsen pathway to LENR?

Nick Palmer

Jed Rothwell wrote:
QUOTE:

Final FY20 Appropriations: National Science Foundation
Low-energy nuclear reactions. The House report encourages NSF to “evaluate the 
various theories, experiments, and scientific literature surrounding the field 
of LENR,” which is most associated with the pursuit of cold fusion. It also 
directs NSF to “provide a set of recommendations as to whether future federal 
investment into LENR research would be prudent, and if so, a plan for how that 
investment would be best utilized.”

https://www.aip.org/fyi/2020/final-fy20-appropriations-national-science-foundation


Nothing will come of this.

Re: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[Nicholas Palmer]

Here's a voice from the past...

Did anyone ever consider using a Farnsworth Fusor as a source of low energy
neutrons to catalyse the putative Widom-Larsen pathway to LENR?

Nick Palmer


On Sat, 11 Jan 2020 at 15:20, Jed Rothwell  wrote:

> QUOTE:
>
> Final FY20 Appropriations: National Science Foundation
> *Low-energy nuclear reactions.* The House report encourages NSF to
> “evaluate the various theories, experiments, and scientific literature
> surrounding the field of LENR,” which is most associated with the pursuit
> of cold fusion
> . It also
> directs NSF to “provide a set of recommendations as to whether future
> federal investment into LENR research would be prudent, and if so, a plan
> for how that investment would be best utilized.”
>
>
> https://www.aip.org/fyi/2020/final-fy20-appropriations-national-science-foundation
>
>
> Nothing will come of this.
>

RE: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Its nature implementing the 2nd law—changing order to disorder (a system with 
high potential energy to a system with more kinetic energy and disorder.)  This 
is termed qualitatively an increase of entropy.

It only happens, if angular momentum is conserved and can change its location  
within the system in quanta of h/2pi and at the same time conserve energy.

The laser input is able to create a change in potential energy of the system as 
the energetic photon enters the stable system and initiates the coupling 
conditions that occur.

Bob Cook


From: Jürg Wyttenbach<mailto:ju...@datamart.ch>
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 3:21 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

First think then understand then design experiments!

The UDH disproportion reaction (Kaon,Pion,Muon cascade) of Holmlid can be 
induced by switching on the lab light.

It's as I said: Only rotten minds that use a rotten standard model can believe 
that fusion is energy dependent.  It's the contrary: LENR only works if you 
know how to remove the excess energy. The balancing magnetic force to start 
this reaction is only given with hydrogen (UDH) at rest.

The Boron reaction has a very high threshold of > 300keV and I doubt you can do 
this with a simple setup.

But it is to early to give any definitive judgement. We just started to 
understand the new model and I'm pretty sure in 50 years people will make jokes 
about what we say today.

J.W.

Am 11.01.20 um 20:49 schrieb Jones Beene:
Here is a question for you Jürg.

You mention the tabletop chirped laser, which is becoming commonplace in labs. 
Holmlid does not use a particularly robust  or chirped laser so this looks like 
a grand way to proceed to get better results.

Have you modeled the hydrogen-boron reaction which Miley et al have been 
suggesting?

If so, has a tabletop chirped laser experiment been designed to explore and 
characterize this reaction? Presumably it would be neutron-free. Seems 
reasonable that this can be scaled down to where almost good lab could do it, 
yet there are few reports of successful efforts.


Jürg Wyttenbach wrote:


The laser setup at Livermore is a dead dinosaur. Today tabletop chirp pulsed 
lasers can get the 1000 fold energy density of LL ignition factory with a 
fraction of the input energy. The EU will soon be ready with such an laser.

But this will not change the result of the alleged confinement fusion as fusion 
is not a function of confinement only. Somebody should tell these folks that in 
fact the Hydrogen (deuterium) bomb is a Lithium bomb and thus still fission not 
fusion...First think then understand then design experiments.

J.W.


Am 11.01.20 um 17:20 schrieb Jones Beene:
Miley and other respected experts have been pushing for this kind of 
implementation - for some dozen or more years. It could allow for a factor of 
several orders of magnitude reduction in laser energy needed and be far cleaner 
(almost neutron-free).



--

Jürg Wyttenbach

Bifangstr.22

8910 Affoltern a.A.

044 760 14 18

079 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

First think then understand then design experiments!

The UDH disproportion reaction (Kaon,Pion,Muon cascade) of Holmlid can 
be induced by switching on the lab light.


It's as I said: Only rotten minds that use a rotten standard model can 
believe that fusion is energy dependent.  It's the contrary: LENR only 
works if you know how to remove the excess energy. The balancing 
magnetic force to start this reaction is only given with hydrogen (UDH) 
at rest.


The Boron reaction has a very high threshold of > 300keV and I doubt you 
can do this with a simple setup.


But it is to early to give any definitive judgement. We just started to 
understand the new model and I'm pretty sure in 50 years people will 
make jokes about what we say today.


J.W.

Am 11.01.20 um 20:49 schrieb Jones Beene:

Here is a question for you Jürg.

You mention the tabletop chirped laser, which is becoming commonplace 
in labs. Holmlid does not use a particularly robust  or chirped laser 
so this looks like a grand way to proceed to get better results.


Have you modeled the hydrogen-boron reaction which Miley et al have 
been suggesting?


If so, has a tabletop chirped laser experiment been designed to 
explore and characterize this reaction? Presumably it would be 
neutron-free. Seems reasonable that this can be scaled down to where 
almost good lab could do it, yet there are few reports of successful 
efforts.



Jürg Wyttenbach wrote:


The laser setup at Livermore is a dead dinosaur. *Today tabletop* 
chirp pulsed lasers can get the 1000 fold energy density of LL 
ignition factory with a fraction of the input energy. The EU will soon 
be ready with such an laser.


But this will not change the result of the alleged confinement fusion 
as fusion is not a function of confinement only. Somebody should tell 
these folks that in fact the Hydrogen (deuterium) bomb is a Lithium 
bomb and thus still fission not fusion...First think then understand 
then design experiments.


J.W.


Am 11.01.20 um 17:20 schrieb Jones Beene:
Miley and other respected experts have been pushing for this kind of 
implementation - for some dozen or more years. It could allow for a 
factor of several orders of magnitude reduction in laser energy 
needed and be far cleaner (almost neutron-free). 



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

RE: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[bobcook39...@hotmail.com]

Jones—

Thanks for that link to the AIP item.  The ice is cracking due to climate 
change I guess. 

FRC

-
From: Jones Beene<mailto:jone...@pacbell.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2020 8:20 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com>
Subject: Re: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

This inclusion in the funding bill is actually rather amazing IMO - at least 
the positive sentiment which is expressed juxtaposed to the prevailing negative 
sentiment of the past.

Maybe "nothing will come of it" but I wouldn't be so skeptical.

Many observers have been looking for that "killer app" so to speak - the 
tipping point for immediate commercialization, which pushes things over the top.

It may come in the form of a "crossover" implementation where LENR is combined 
with hot fusion. For example - the making of deuterium targets for inertial 
confinement fusion using LENR techniques and the emerging dense hydrogen 
technology.

Miley and other respected experts have been pushing for this kind of 
implementation - for some dozen or more years. It could allow for a factor of 
several orders of magnitude reduction in laser energy needed and be far cleaner 
(almost neutron-free).

Not exactly cold fusion but halfway there. See the Cambridge report (11 years 
old) and the follow-on material. It makes so much more sense than ITER and the 
other plasma boondoggles.

Jones

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/laser-and-particle-beams/article/threshold-for-laser-driven-block-ignition-for-fusion-energy-from-hydrogen-boron-11/CAAB5E68307C3821494D196518BA72C4



Jed Rothwell wrote:

Final FY20 Appropriations: National Science Foundation
Low-energy nuclear reactions. The House report encourages NSF to “evaluate the 
various theories, experiments, and scientific literature surrounding the field 
of LENR,” which is most associated with the pursuit of cold 
fusion<https://physicstoday.scitation.org/doi/full/10.1063/1.1881896>. It also 
directs NSF to “provide a set of recommendations as to whether future federal 
investment into LENR research would be prudent, and if so, a plan for how that 
investment would be best utilized.”

https://www.aip.org/fyi/2020/final-fy20-appropriations-national-science-foundation


Nothing will come of this.

Re: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[Jones Beene]

 Here is a question for you Jürg. 

You mention the tabletop chirped laser, which is becoming commonplace in labs. 
Holmlid does not use a particularly robust  or chirped laser so this looks like 
a grand way to proceed to get better results.

Have you modeled the hydrogen-boron reaction which Miley et al have been 
suggesting?
If so, has a tabletop chirped laser experiment been designed to explore and 
characterize this reaction? Presumably it would be neutron-free. Seems 
reasonable that this can be scaled down to where almost good lab could do it, 
yet there are few reports of successful efforts.


Jürg Wyttenbach wrote:  
 
  The laser setup at Livermore is a dead dinosaur. Today tabletop chirp pulsed 
lasers can get the 1000 fold energy density of LL ignition factory with a 
fraction of the input energy. The EU will soon be ready with such an laser.
  
  But this will not change the result of the alleged confinement fusion as 
fusion is not a function of confinement only. Somebody should tell these folks 
that in fact the Hydrogen (deuterium) bomb is a Lithium bomb and thus still 
fission not fusion...First think then understand then design experiments. 
  
  J.W. 
  
  Am 11.01.20 um 17:20 schrieb Jones Beene:
  
Miley and other respected experts have been pushing for this kind of 
implementation - for some dozen or more years. It could allow for a factor of 
several orders of magnitude reduction in laser energy needed and be far cleaner 
(almost neutron-free). 
   

Re: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[Jürg Wyttenbach]

The laser setup at Livermore is a dead dinosaur. *Today tabletop* chirp 
pulsed lasers can get the 1000 fold energy density of LL ignition 
factory with a fraction of the input energy. The EU will soon be ready 
with such an laser.


But this will not change the result of the alleged confinement fusion as 
fusion is not a function of confinement only. Somebody should tell these 
folks that in fact the Hydrogen (deuterium) bomb is a Lithium bomb and 
thus still fission not fusion...First think then understand then design 
experiments.


J.W.


Am 11.01.20 um 17:20 schrieb Jones Beene:
Miley and other respected experts have been pushing for this kind of 
implementation - for some dozen or more years. It could allow for a 
factor of several orders of magnitude reduction in laser energy needed 
and be far cleaner (almost neutron-free). 



--
Jürg Wyttenbach
Bifangstr.22
8910 Affoltern a.A.
044 760 14 18
079 246 36 06

Re: [Vo]:AIP mentions cold fusion

[Jones Beene]

 This inclusion in the funding bill is actually rather amazing IMO - at least 
the positive sentiment which is expressed juxtaposed to the prevailing negative 
sentiment of the past.

Maybe "nothing will come of it" but I wouldn't be so skeptical. 

Many observers have been looking for that "killer app" so to speak - the 
tipping point for immediate commercialization, which pushes things over the top.
It may come in the form of a "crossover" implementation where LENR is combined 
with hot fusion. For example - the making of deuterium targets for inertial 
confinement fusion using LENR techniques and the emerging dense hydrogen 
technology.
Miley and other respected experts have been pushing for this kind of 
implementation - for some dozen or more years. It could allow for a factor of 
several orders of magnitude reduction in laser energy needed and be far cleaner 
(almost neutron-free). 

Not exactly cold fusion but halfway there. See the Cambridge report (11 years 
old) and the follow-on material. It makes so much more sense than ITER and the 
other plasma boondoggles.

Jones
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/laser-and-particle-beams/article/threshold-for-laser-driven-block-ignition-for-fusion-energy-from-hydrogen-boron-11/CAAB5E68307C3821494D196518BA72C4


Jed Rothwell wrote:  

Final FY20 Appropriations: National Science Foundation
Low-energy nuclear reactions. The House report encourages NSF to “evaluate the 
various theories, experiments, and scientific literature surrounding the field 
of LENR,” which is most associated with the pursuit of cold fusion. It also 
directs NSF to “provide a set of recommendations as to whether future federal 
investment into LENR research would be prudent, and if so, a plan for how that 
investment would be best utilized.”

https://www.aip.org/fyi/2020/final-fy20-appropriations-national-science-foundation


Nothing will come of this.