Re: [Vo]:Fire From Ice: An engineering challenge
The purpose of sorting "hot bits" from "cold bits" is to create a temperature difference. I am assuming a temperature difference is already given, for example like the difference in temperature between the interior and exterior sides of a window pane in winter. Harry On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 10:55 PM Gibson Elliot wrote: > So you want to build a demon. That proverbial creature that can sort hot > and cold bits. New research has created a wonderful Graphene energy > harvester you might be interested in. I guess you could attempt to use > minor spatial perturbations an use that. but for any real energy, ya just > can't get past mass and acceleration without some serious joules. Did you > know when Nitinol is bent it creates molecular heat in super elastic mode, > and it goes through a similar cooling when it relaxes? food for thought my > friend about energy differentials and thermal effects on an atomic scale. > Always seems to come back to compression/relaxation phases don't it? > > G > > On Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 01:04:59 PM PST, H LV > wrote: > > > > This challenge is inspired by the title of Gene Mallove`s book "Fire From > Ice". > > A major engineering goal in the past was to make ice from fire. That is > given a very hot reservoir and ambient temperature, build a machine which > will cause water to freeze. > > Can a complementary machine be built which will cause water to boil given > a very cold reservoir and the ambient temperature? Has this already been > done? > > Harry >
Re: [Vo]:Fire From Ice: An engineering challenge
So you want to build a demon. That proverbial creature that can sort hot and cold bits. New research has created a wonderful Graphene energy harvester you might be interested in. I guess you could attempt to use minor spatial perturbations an use that. but for any real energy, ya just can't get past mass and acceleration without some serious joules. Did you know when Nitinol is bent it creates molecular heat in super elastic mode, and it goes through a similar cooling when it relaxes? food for thought my friend about energy differentials and thermal effects on an atomic scale. Always seems to come back to compression/relaxation phases don't it? G On Tuesday, November 3, 2020, 01:04:59 PM PST, H LV wrote: This challenge is inspired by the title of Gene Mallove`s book "Fire From Ice". A major engineering goal in the past was to make ice from fire. That is given a very hot reservoir and ambient temperature, build a machine which will cause water to freeze. Can a complementary machine be built which will cause water to boil given a very cold reservoir and the ambient temperature? Has this already been done? Harry
Re: [Vo]:Fire From Ice: An engineering challenge
The propane fridge would be consistent with a prequel book entitled: Ice from Fire. In your example the propane supplies the fire or high temperature reservoir. An engine requires a temperature _difference_ between a reservoir and the ambient environment. Typically we think of an engine as needing a reservoir which is at higher temperature than the ambient environment. However, it is possible for the ambient environment to be at a higher temperature than the reservoir. For example the ambient temperature could be at 5 degrees below the freezing point of water and the reservoir temperature at 105 degrees below the freezing point. One way to melt ice under this circumstance would be to use a thermoelectric device. The temperature difference would create a voltage potential and this could be used to generate electricity to produce joule heating which would melt the ice. This would qualify as Fire from Ice. The point of this exercise is to suggest that there may be useful reservoirs of intense cold in places that we don't ordinarily consider to be cold because they are behind an insulating barrier. Harry On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 5:56 PM JonesBeene wrote: > Make that “propane fridge” … Einstein’s first patent IIRC > > > > > > This challenge is inspired by the title of Gene Mallove`s book "Fire From > Ice"….Has this already been done? > > > > > > Yes. At least in the sense of a propane fringe, > > >
RE: [Vo]:Fire From Ice: An engineering challenge
Make that “propane fridge” … Einstein’s first patent IIRC This challenge is inspired by the title of Gene Mallove`s book "Fire From Ice"….Has this already been done? Yes. At least in the sense of a propane fringe,
RE: [Vo]:Fire From Ice: An engineering challenge
This challenge is inspired by the title of Gene Mallove`s book "Fire From Ice"….Has this already been done? Yes. At least in the sense of a propane fringe,
Re: [Vo]:Fire From Ice: An engineering challenge
The challenge should be more symmetrical then I just described. Rather than boil water, the challenge should be to melt ice with a very cold reservoir where the ambient temperature is low enough such that the normal state of water is ice. Harry On Tue., Nov. 3, 2020, 4:04 p.m. H LV, wrote: > > This challenge is inspired by the title of Gene Mallove`s book "Fire From > Ice". > > A major engineering goal in the past was to make ice from fire. That is > given a very hot reservoir and ambient temperature, build a machine which > will cause water to freeze. > > Can a complementary machine be built which will cause water to boil given > a very cold reservoir and the ambient temperature? Has this already been > done? > > Harry >
