Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-17 Thread mixent
In reply to  Sunil Shah's message of Wed, 28 Aug 2013 16:52:25 +0200:
Hi,
[snip]
No sound eminating from the arc, that I could discern.

Since thunder is caused by rapid expansion of the air (and ions), a permanent
arc (presumably low power), might not create much sound, as the air around it
has already stabilized.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html



Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-15 Thread mixent
In reply to  Eric Walker's message of Thu, 5 Sep 2013 23:03:08 -0700:
Hi,
[snip]
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:49 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:

Another related video is at -
 U.F.O.Shoots Down U.S.Nuclear Missile.Retired Military Man Bob Jacobs,
 Explains The Event
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8wFmtr05Ko


The UFO was observed to have a raised bubble (i.e., a round cockpit
window).  ;)

What I don't understand is why the alien would want to shoot down a missile
from an interceptor missile test.

Eric

...just to prove they can run rings around us. ;)

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html



Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-06 Thread Eric Walker
On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:49 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:

Another related video is at -
 U.F.O.Shoots Down U.S.Nuclear Missile.Retired Military Man Bob Jacobs,
 Explains The Event
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8wFmtr05Ko


The UFO was observed to have a raised bubble (i.e., a round cockpit
window).  ;)

What I don't understand is why the alien would want to shoot down a missile
from an interceptor missile test.

Eric


Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-06 Thread pagnucco
From nearly 1000 miles away, it's hard to believe that level of detail
could be observed.  Aliens make for a more interesting story, but my bet
is that a volume of plasma developed around the missile to offset charge
stripped from the missile skin. Maybe bored aliens become mischievous?

Eric Walker wrote:
 On Thu, Sep 5, 2013 at 10:49 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:

 Another related video is at -
 U.F.O.Shoots Down U.S.Nuclear Missile.Retired Military Man Bob Jacobs,
 Explains The Event
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8wFmtr05Ko


 The UFO was observed to have a raised bubble (i.e., a round cockpit
 window).  ;)

 What I don't understand is why the alien would want to shoot down a
 missile
 from an interceptor missile test.

 Eric





Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-05 Thread mixent
In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 4 Sep 2013 18:04:32 -0400 (EDT):
Hi Dave,
[snip]

IOW you think it was a fake. :)

Robin,

I was of the opinion that the video shown was not the actual one taken, but 
instead a replication.  The original was supposed to have been taken away by 
the officers.

Dave
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html



Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-05 Thread David Roberson
Yes.


Dave



-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 5:26 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR


In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 4 Sep 2013 18:04:32 -0400 (EDT):
Hi Dave,
[snip]

IOW you think it was a fake. :)

Robin,

I was of the opinion that the video shown was not the actual one taken, but 
instead a replication.  The original was supposed to have been taken away by 
the 
officers.

Dave
Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html


 


Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-05 Thread pagnucco
Apparently the original film was confiscated, and the video is a
simulation.  The participants are adamant about the UFO events.
They argue with Bill Nye who attempts to debunk their claims in the video:

Bill Nye attempts to debunk Bob Jacobs' UFO claim
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asnaykgZE8M

Another related video is at -
U.F.O.Shoots Down U.S.Nuclear Missile.Retired Military Man Bob Jacobs,
Explains The Event
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8wFmtr05Ko

I am surprised that ball lightning is never mentioned by Nye or the
former Air Force officers. Nor as exciting as extraterrestrials?

David Roberson wrote:
 Yes.

 Dave

 -Original Message-
 From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
 To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
 Sent: Thu, Sep 5, 2013 5:26 pm
 Subject: Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

 In reply to  David Roberson's message of Wed, 4 Sep 2013 18:04:32 -0400
 (EDT):
 Hi Dave,
 [snip]

 IOW you think it was a fake. :)

Robin,

I was of the opinion that the video shown was not the actual one taken,
 but
 instead a replication.  The original was supposed to have been taken away
 by the
 officers.

Dave
 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html








Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-04 Thread mixent
In reply to  pagnu...@htdconnect.com's message of Wed, 4 Sep 2013 01:22:57 -0400
(EDT):
Hi Lou,
[snip]

It's the very first beam you actually see, at 1:16 into the video quoted in my
email (which is an extract from the Larry King video), or 3:43 into the Larry
King video. It crosses over the capsule, but ends in space, then shifts around
to intercept it.
After that, it moves around and takes another shot. If you watch the beam you
will also see that it has a fixed length.

On thinking more about this however it occurs to me that particles beams in the
atmosphere do have a limited length as they are eventually stopped by air. They
are also visible because of the interaction with air. I had originally assumed
that the whole scene played out in space, however that may not be the case. It
could have been in the upper atmosphere, in which case I would have to withdraw
my comment about it being fake.

Robin,

I watched the movie again.  I cannot see the evidence that you do.
The missile is 600 miles away moving at 8000 mph, surrounded by much
anti-radar chaff, and did indeed malfunction after the UFO event.
Several of the people on that Larry King Show -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Plzo0rECew
- appear to be sincere official air force personnel.

Airliners have (allegedly) encountered ball lightning several occasions.
(Google - ball lightning airliners)

This could be mass delusion, but I need more persuasive data before 
dismissing it as fake.

-- Lou Pagnucco

Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
 In reply to  David L Babcock's message of Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:32:50 -0400:
 Hi,
 [snip]
 UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force Base
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4FhJ3mjrE
 [snip]
 The movie is fake. There is one frame where the beam end in space rather
 than
 on the missile. Beams don't do that. They keep on going until they hit
 something. It's reminiscent of the movie technology of the early startrek
 movies, where they beam was also occasionally misaligned.

 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html




Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html



Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-04 Thread David Roberson

Robin,

I was of the opinion that the video shown was not the actual one taken, but 
instead a replication.  The original was supposed to have been taken away by 
the officers.

Dave


-Original Message-
From: mixent mix...@bigpond.com
To: vortex-l vortex-l@eskimo.com
Sent: Wed, Sep 4, 2013 5:42 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR


In reply to  pagnu...@htdconnect.com's message of Wed, 4 Sep 2013 01:22:57 -0400
(EDT):
Hi Lou,
[snip]

It's the very first beam you actually see, at 1:16 into the video quoted in my
email (which is an extract from the Larry King video), or 3:43 into the Larry
King video. It crosses over the capsule, but ends in space, then shifts around
to intercept it.
After that, it moves around and takes another shot. If you watch the beam you
will also see that it has a fixed length.

On thinking more about this however it occurs to me that particles beams in the
atmosphere do have a limited length as they are eventually stopped by air. They
are also visible because of the interaction with air. I had originally assumed
that the whole scene played out in space, however that may not be the case. It
could have been in the upper atmosphere, in which case I would have to withdraw
my comment about it being fake.

Robin,

I watched the movie again.  I cannot see the evidence that you do.
The missile is 600 miles away moving at 8000 mph, surrounded by much
anti-radar chaff, and did indeed malfunction after the UFO event.
Several of the people on that Larry King Show -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Plzo0rECew
- appear to be sincere official air force personnel.

Airliners have (allegedly) encountered ball lightning several occasions.
(Google - ball lightning airliners)

This could be mass delusion, but I need more persuasive data before 
dismissing it as fake.

-- Lou Pagnucco

Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
 In reply to  David L Babcock's message of Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:32:50 -0400:
 Hi,
 [snip]
 UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force Base
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4FhJ3mjrE
 [snip]
 The movie is fake. There is one frame where the beam end in space rather
 than
 on the missile. Beams don't do that. They keep on going until they hit
 something. It's reminiscent of the movie technology of the early startrek
 movies, where they beam was also occasionally misaligned.

 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html




Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html


 


RE: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-04 Thread Jones Beene
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/93JD01021/abstract

The maser-caviton ball lightning theory is briefly described, is compared
with the available observations of ball lightning, and is further developed
on the basis of the rate equations governing the evolution of the photon
number in a single-mode maser. The focus of this paper is on the explosive
growth of the photon number at the premature demise of a large atmospheric
maser. Ball lightning is a localized high-field soliton forming a cavity
surrounded by plasma in this theory.






RE: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-04 Thread pagnucco
Interesting theory.

Trying to track down other open source papers by the authors leads to a
labyrinth of similar and different theories.

Given how befuddled main stream physics is trying to explain a macroscopic
phenomenon like this, it is understandable that LENR is such a conundrum.

I did find an Air Force document (AFRL-PR-ED-TR-2002-0039) -

Ball Lightning Study
http://www.foia.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-091008-049.pdf

- that discusses the maser-soliton theory (document page# 22).

It may be worth noting that ball lightning has confounded science a lot
longer than LENR has.  A bit depressing.

-- Lou Pagnucco

Jones Beene wrote:
 http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1029/93JD01021/abstract

 The maser-caviton ball lightning theory is briefly described, is compared
 with the available observations of ball lightning, and is further
 developed
 on the basis of the rate equations governing the evolution of the photon
 number in a single-mode maser. The focus of this paper is on the explosive
 growth of the photon number at the premature demise of a large atmospheric
 maser. Ball lightning is a localized high-field soliton forming a cavity
 surrounded by plasma in this theory.




Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-03 Thread mixent
In reply to  David L Babcock's message of Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:32:50 -0400:
Hi,
[snip]
 UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force Base
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4FhJ3mjrE
[snip]
The movie is fake. There is one frame where the beam end in space rather than
on the missile. Beams don't do that. They keep on going until they hit
something. It's reminiscent of the movie technology of the early startrek
movies, where they beam was also occasionally misaligned.

Regards,

Robin van Spaandonk

http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html



Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-09-03 Thread pagnucco
Robin,

I watched the movie again.  I cannot see the evidence that you do.
The missile is 600 miles away moving at 8000 mph, surrounded by much
anti-radar chaff, and did indeed malfunction after the UFO event.
Several of the people on that Larry King Show -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Plzo0rECew
- appear to be sincere official air force personnel.

Airliners have (allegedly) encountered ball lightning several occasions.
(Google - ball lightning airliners)

This could be mass delusion, but I need more persuasive data before 
dismissing it as fake.

-- Lou Pagnucco

Robin van Spaandonk wrote:
 In reply to  David L Babcock's message of Tue, 27 Aug 2013 20:32:50 -0400:
 Hi,
 [snip]
 UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force Base
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4FhJ3mjrE
 [snip]
 The movie is fake. There is one frame where the beam end in space rather
 than
 on the missile. Beams don't do that. They keep on going until they hit
 something. It's reminiscent of the movie technology of the early startrek
 movies, where they beam was also occasionally misaligned.

 Regards,

 Robin van Spaandonk

 http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/project.html







Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-28 Thread Alain Sepeda
I think , despite some details, LENr and ball Lighning are very different.

BL started from laymen observation, in uncontroled environment.
My dad talk me about that, and for him is was known fact, linked to
lignting on wet organic structures (wood, roofs). He have indirect
witnessing of people who were victim of it, wre tracked by it, or escaped
by not moving (it was clear for him that it was real, following wires and
pipes, attracted by moving and wind)...
I was prudent about his claims, and I am always about non mainstream claims.

I did not know it was fringe science, since for me, in the 1950s it was
simply ununderstood phenomena, like Branly's coherer, Bermuda triangle,
Zone 51, like before Germanium conduction (PN!) anomalies, germs, genetics,
...


Cold Fusion/LENR is very different. It is a lab experiment, replicated,
validated, whose many faced have been observed through many instruments.
The only commonality is the collective denial.

For BL it seems easy to understand since the only evidence are non
scientists, or at least hard to call... no machine could attract ball
lightning...

for LENR is is very different. It is clearly a political effect launched by
few influential people, and maintained by terror against dissenters, and by
easy minds enough incompetent not to see the arguments (like the 3
miracles) were void (in lattice- every MSc in microelectronics can judge
it).









2013/8/27 pagnu...@htdconnect.com

 It's interesting to note that the still unexplained and controversial
 phenomenon of ball lightning is derided as mass delusion, e.g., --

 Is Ball Lightning Just a Shared Hallucination?

 http://www.universetoday.com/64560/is-ball-lightning-just-a-shared-hallucination/

 - despite that probable ball lightning has also deluded video cams, e.g.,

 UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force Base
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4FhJ3mjrE

 Challenging established orthodoxy endangers reputation, career, income, ...

 This recent (open source) paper --

 Interrelation between ball lightning and optically induced forces
 http://iopscience.iop.org/1402-4896/88/3/035402

 -- begins with the observation -

 The phenomenon of ball lightning (BL) remains unresolved
 up to the present moment. No satisfactory explanation of
 enigmatic natural phenomena (observed and examined by
 scientists for many centuries) has been found up to now.
 More than 200 different BL theories are known, and their
 systematization and classification have been carried out.
 However, neither of them can even approximately explain the
 enigmatic and intriguing behavior of BLs, which to a certain
 degree reminds one of the behavior of some highly organized
 matter. Physicists cannot imagine an object, submitting to
 conventional physical laws, whose properties coincide with
 BL properties. This is something perfectly new.

 It seems that the same laws of social psychology are operating
 to discourage investigations of BL and LENR.

 BTW, the following paper --

 Tracks of Ball Lightning in Apparatus?
 J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 2 (2009) 13–32
 http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LewisEtracksofba.pdf

 - speculates that micro-BL might explain the topography of
 pock-marked, streaked, ..., metal surfaces seen in LENR.

 Any opinions on the reality of ball lightning?

 -- Lou Pagnucco





RE: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-28 Thread Sunil Shah
Off-topic I guess, but I still want to tell ; P

I once saw a permanent arcing between clouds.

I was out in a rowing boat on a lake in the mountains.  Evening time, quite a 
few clouds, but also clear sky in between.  Between two adjacent clouds there 
was a permanent arc going on.  Permanent in the sense that it was going on 
for the time the gap wasn't occluded by some other clouds, so it was something 
like 30 seconds.  No sound eminating from the arc, that I could discern.

Weird and nice at the same time :)

.s
  

Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-28 Thread pagnucco
Alain,

Yes. They may (or not) be different phenomena, but I think the fact that
both are rejected and marginalized is important.  It illustrates how 
important it is to not to challenge The Establishment - in science, as
well as politics.

BL is still fringe science despite many credible observations.

-- Lou Pagnucco

Alain Sepeda wrote:
 I think , despite some details, LENr and ball Lighning are very different.
 [...]




Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-27 Thread ChemE Stewart
Decaying dark energy, originating from our Sun, all curled up in a ball in
those extra dimensions of space.

On Tuesday, August 27, 2013, wrote:

 It's interesting to note that the still unexplained and controversial
 phenomenon of ball lightning is derided as mass delusion, e.g., --

 Is Ball Lightning Just a Shared Hallucination?

 http://www.universetoday.com/64560/is-ball-lightning-just-a-shared-hallucination/

 - despite that probable ball lightning has also deluded video cams, e.g.,

 UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force Base
 UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force 
 Basehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4FhJ3mjrE

 Challenging established orthodoxy endangers reputation, career, income, ...

 This recent (open source) paper --

 Interrelation between ball lightning and optically induced forces
 http://iopscience.iop.org/1402-4896/88/3/035402

 -- begins with the observation -

 The phenomenon of ball lightning (BL) remains unresolved
 up to the present moment. No satisfactory explanation of
 enigmatic natural phenomena (observed and examined by
 scientists for many centuries) has been found up to now.
 More than 200 different BL theories are known, and their
 systematization and classification have been carried out.
 However, neither of them can even approximately explain the
 enigmatic and intriguing behavior of BLs, which to a certain
 degree reminds one of the behavior of some highly organized
 matter. Physicists cannot imagine an object, submitting to
 conventional physical laws, whose properties coincide with
 BL properties. This is something perfectly new.

 It seems that the same laws of social psychology are operating
 to discourage investigations of BL and LENR.

 BTW, the following paper --

 Tracks of Ball Lightning in Apparatus?
 J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 2 (2009) 13–32
 http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LewisEtracksofba.pdf

 - speculates that micro-BL might explain the topography of
 pock-marked, streaked, ..., metal surfaces seen in LENR.

 Any opinions on the reality of ball lightning?

 -- Lou Pagnucco





Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-27 Thread David L Babcock
It was twilight, among towering clouds, high over some mid state when I 
saw a bright signal flare sweep up to about the plane's altitude from 
clouds below, and fall back. Then a second, from a different location. 
No lightning. Paths and velocities very projectile-ish, not rockets. But 
considering the altitude, definitely not signal flares.


Unless they were tracer artillery shells. Wildly unlikely, but so 
-they say!- is ball lightning.


As for those links, #3 conveniently ignores all the recorded cases of BL 
going through walls and windows. #2 has NOTHING to do with the subject, 
and #1 obviously is a hyper-skeptic jumping through haystacks to find an 
excuse not to address the facts. Marsh gas, anyone?


Say, doesn't our host Bill keep an extensive collection of BL sightings?


Ol' Bab


On 8/27/2013 2:25 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:

It's interesting to note that the still unexplained and controversial
phenomenon of ball lightning is derided as mass delusion, e.g., --

Is Ball Lightning Just a Shared Hallucination?
http://www.universetoday.com/64560/is-ball-lightning-just-a-shared-hallucination/

- despite that probable ball lightning has also deluded video cams, e.g.,

UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force Base
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4FhJ3mjrE

Challenging established orthodoxy endangers reputation, career, income, ...

This recent (open source) paper --

Interrelation between ball lightning and optically induced forces
http://iopscience.iop.org/1402-4896/88/3/035402

-- begins with the observation -

The phenomenon of ball lightning (BL) remains unresolved
up to the present moment. No satisfactory explanation of
enigmatic natural phenomena (observed and examined by
scientists for many centuries) has been found up to now.
More than 200 different BL theories are known, and their
systematization and classification have been carried out.
However, neither of them can even approximately explain the
enigmatic and intriguing behavior of BLs, which to a certain
degree reminds one of the behavior of some highly organized
matter. Physicists cannot imagine an object, submitting to
conventional physical laws, whose properties coincide with
BL properties. This is something perfectly new.

It seems that the same laws of social psychology are operating
to discourage investigations of BL and LENR.

BTW, the following paper --

Tracks of Ball Lightning in Apparatus?
J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 2 (2009) 13–32
http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LewisEtracksofba.pdf

- speculates that micro-BL might explain the topography of
pock-marked, streaked, ..., metal surfaces seen in LENR.

Any opinions on the reality of ball lightning?

-- Lou Pagnucco







Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-27 Thread Jed Rothwell
Look up ball lightning (with quotes) in the Google custom search box at
LENR-CANR.org and you will see that several people have speculated about
this. Especially E. Lewis, as noted:


 Tracks of Ball Lightning in Apparatus?
 J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 2 (2009) 13–32
 http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LewisEtracksofba.pdf


I just added this to the index:

Lewis, E., *More Evidence of Microscopic Ball Lightning (Plasmoids) in CF
Devices.* J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci., 2012. *7*.

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedf.pdf#page=13

- Jed


Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-27 Thread pagnucco

David L Babcock wrote:



 It was twilight, among towering clouds, high over some mid state when I
 saw a bright signal flare sweep up to about the plane's altitude from
 clouds below, and fall back. Then a second, from a different location.
 No lightning. Paths and velocities very projectile-ish, not rockets. But
 considering the altitude, definitely not signal flares.

 Unless they were tracer artillery shells. Wildly unlikely, but so
 -they say!- is ball lightning.

My posting was prompted by a discussion I had with someone (who I don't
think ever heard about BL) who saw a similar event, below cloud level,
several days ago.  He sounded quite sincere, as well as puzzled.


 As for those links, #3 conveniently ignores all the recorded cases of BL
 going through walls and windows. #2 has NOTHING to do with the subject,
 and #1 obviously is a hyper-skeptic jumping through haystacks to find an
 excuse not to address the facts. Marsh gas, anyone?

I agree with the comment on #1.

As far as #2 - it sure looks like a BL-plasmoid with a net charge
opposite to the missle.  Notice how it tracks and arcs toward the missle.
My apologies if it really is a UFO.
Mirages and illusions are improbable explanations also.

Yes - BL does seem to go through some non-conductive surfaces.
I'm not sure the authors of #3 would dispute that.


 Say, doesn't our host Bill keep an extensive collection of BL sightings?


I hope so.  Too bad difficult to explain phenomena are quickly dismissed.

 Ol' Bab


 On 8/27/2013 2:25 PM, pagnu...@htdconnect.com wrote:
 It's interesting to note that the still unexplained and controversial
 phenomenon of ball lightning is derided as mass delusion, e.g., --

 Is Ball Lightning Just a Shared Hallucination?
 http://www.universetoday.com/64560/is-ball-lightning-just-a-shared-hallucination/

 - despite that probable ball lightning has also deluded video cams,
 e.g.,

 UFO Shoots Missile with beams - Vandenberg Air Force Base
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO4FhJ3mjrE

 Challenging established orthodoxy endangers reputation, career, income,
 ...

 This recent (open source) paper --

 Interrelation between ball lightning and optically induced forces
 http://iopscience.iop.org/1402-4896/88/3/035402

 -- begins with the observation -

 The phenomenon of ball lightning (BL) remains unresolved
 up to the present moment. No satisfactory explanation of
 enigmatic natural phenomena (observed and examined by
 scientists for many centuries) has been found up to now.
 More than 200 different BL theories are known, and their
 systematization and classification have been carried out.
 However, neither of them can even approximately explain the
 enigmatic and intriguing behavior of BLs, which to a certain
 degree reminds one of the behavior of some highly organized
 matter. Physicists cannot imagine an object, submitting to
 conventional physical laws, whose properties coincide with
 BL properties. This is something perfectly new.

 It seems that the same laws of social psychology are operating
 to discourage investigations of BL and LENR.

 BTW, the following paper --

 Tracks of Ball Lightning in Apparatus?
 J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 2 (2009) 13–32
 http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LewisEtracksofba.pdf

 - speculates that micro-BL might explain the topography of
 pock-marked, streaked, ..., metal surfaces seen in LENR.

 Any opinions on the reality of ball lightning?

 -- Lou Pagnucco










RE: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-27 Thread Hoyt A. Stearns Jr.

Aviation Week had an article about compact toroids they also called
photon torpedos
apparently they're stable and can be used as directed energy weapons.

The device discharges large capacitor banks along a small aluminum tube
which
creates a stable plasma toroid.

Maybe it's gone black.

Aviation Week and Space Technology, November 3, 1997, v. 147, p. 29.

Includes photos of the apparatus.

Hoyt Stearns
Scottsdale, Arizona US





-Original Message-
From: David L Babcock [mailto:ol...@rochester.rr.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:33 PM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

It was twilight, among towering clouds, high over some mid state when I saw
a bright signal flare sweep up to about the plane's altitude from clouds
below, and fall back. Then a second, from a different location. 
No lightning. Paths and velocities very projectile-ish, not rockets. But
considering the altitude, definitely not signal flares.

Unless they were tracer artillery shells. Wildly unlikely, but so -they
say!- is ball lightning.



Re: [Vo]:Parallels between Ball Lightning and LENR

2013-08-27 Thread pagnucco
Thanks.  I just downloaded it.

I also Googled it (or, should I say NSAed it?) and noticed that it is
not referenced.  Too bad, it would be nice to know what practitioners think.

Jed Rothwell wrote:
 Look up ball lightning (with quotes) in the Google custom search box at
 LENR-CANR.org and you will see that several people have speculated about
 this. Especially E. Lewis, as noted:


 Tracks of Ball Lightning in Apparatus?
 J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci. 2 (2009) 13–32
 http://www.lenr-canr.org/acrobat/LewisEtracksofba.pdf


 I just added this to the index:

 Lewis, E., *More Evidence of Microscopic Ball Lightning (Plasmoids) in CF
 Devices.* J. Condensed Matter Nucl. Sci., 2012. *7*.

 http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/BiberianJPjcondensedf.pdf#page=13

 - Jed