Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat
Here is a chart of Boiling Point versus pressure. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html My guestimate for the pressure (judging by the sound and appearance of the "geyser") is probably not more than 50 PSI. If that guess is correct it means the water in the 'pressure cooker" could be about 140 C. That would make quite a good heat reservoir to draw on during the alleged unpowered test. Presumably the vessel is quite separate from the water being pumped through the Ecat but is thermally coupled via a heat exchanger. How much energy could be drawn from that heat reservoir? Well, let's assume that at the start of the unpowered test the water in the reservoir is at 140 C and that at the end of the test it is at 110 C (thus allowing the output temperature to remain above 100C. Delta T = 30 C Let's say that the volume of water is 20 Litres. (could be more) Calories stored = 20,000 x 30 = 600,000 Calories = 0.7 Kwh Interesting! .Notes The calorie, or gram calorie, is the quantity of heat required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of pure water 1°C; Convert calories to Kwh http://www.calculateme.com/Energy/calories/ToKilowattHours.htm
Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat
Yes, I remember reading Horace Hefner's analysis. As I recall, he (as well as some others) have repeatedly questioned the very stability you mention. It seems unlikely that the core can "know" how much energy to produce to keep the device exactly at the right temperature to just barely keep the water at the boiling point. And, given the doubts about the accuracy of the placement and use of the temperature sensors, any conclusions based on temperature reading is suspect. Mats Lewan stated in November that Rossi has has supplied all temperature instruments (http://lenr.qumbu.com/rossi_ecat_eai_emails.php), so that's an open issue. It would be interesting to actually know what the pressure of the water jetting out of the E-Cat at the end of that video really was. I proposed a simple way of determining that, that's all. From: Robert Leguillon To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2012 10:24 AM Subject: RE: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat Horace Hefner did some excellent analysis on this subject, presuming that there is a check valve and/or flow restrictor at the output. From the stability of the E-Cat temp, you can tell that it is at boiling temperature, with a mix of water and vapor. Simple steam charts will show you that the internal pressure of the E-Cat rises as high as 3 bar (134C=3 bar). http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html You are 100% correct that this back pressure will decrease the water added by the pump. This is ask well trodden ground, so I'd recommend searching the archives. Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 07:02:28 -0800 From: john_sw_orla...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Very interesting! It's obvious that the water being released at the end of the video is at a *MUCH* higher pressure than the water/steam coming out of the rubber hose. I guess that means that there are two separate containers of water. According to Mats Lewan, that high-pressure stream continued for about 3 minutes(!), even though the video ended after about 1:20. I recall reading that the pump used to pump water into the E-Cat was sensitive to back-pressure. With the kind of pressure being displayed in that video, the pump probably couldn't pump any water at all into the E-Cat, which is another indicator that there are two separate containers of water. It occurs to me that an easy experiment would be to take a pressure tank with a valve like the one at the bottom of the E-Cat, fill it half full of water, pressurize the container to various levels, then open the valve part-way (matching the video), and see how much pressure it takes to produce the same kind of stream. Once the appropriate pressure is found, it would be easy to determine the maximum temperature for liquid water at that pressure, and from that, the amount of heat energy actually being stored in the water. Eff Wivakeef Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:46:45 -0800 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhQIufkdL4&feature=related Fast forward to 6:40 Huge blast of steam and hot water. What is going on here?
RE: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat
Horace Hefner did some excellent analysis on this subject, presuming that there is a check valve and/or flow restrictor at the output. >From the stability of the E-Cat temp, you can tell that it is at boiling >temperature, with a mix of water and vapor. Simple steam charts will show you >that the internal pressure of the E-Cat rises as high as 3 bar (134C=3 bar). http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/boiling-point-water-d_926.html You are 100% correct that this back pressure will decrease the water added by the pump. This is ask well trodden ground, so I'd recommend searching the archives. Date: Sun, 22 Jan 2012 07:02:28 -0800 From: john_sw_orla...@yahoo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Very interesting! It's obvious that the water being released at the end of the video is at a *MUCH* higher pressure than the water/steam coming out of the rubber hose. I guess that means that there are two separate containers of water. According to Mats Lewan, that high-pressure stream continued for about 3 minutes(!), even though the video ended after about 1:20. I recall reading that the pump used to pump water into the E-Cat was sensitive to back-pressure. With the kind of pressure being displayed in that video, the pump probably couldn't pump any water at all into the E-Cat, which is another indicator that there are two separate containers of water. It occurs to me that an easy experiment would be to take a pressure tank with a valve like the one at the bottom of the E-Cat, fill it half full of water, pressurize the container to various levels, then open the valve part-way (matching the video), and see how much pressure it takes to produce the same kind of stream. Once the appropriate pressure is found, it would be easy to determine the maximum temperature for liquid water at that pressure, and from that, the amount of heat energy actually being stored in the water. Eff Wivakeef Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:46:45 -0800http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhQIufkdL4&feature=related Fast forward to 6:40 Huge blast of steam and hot water. What is going on here?
RE: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat
Very interesting! It's obvious that the water being released at the end of the video is at a *MUCH* higher pressure than the water/steam coming out of the rubber hose. I guess that means that there are two separate containers of water. According to Mats Lewan, that high-pressure stream continued for about 3 minutes(!), even though the video ended after about 1:20. I recall reading that the pump used to pump water into the E-Cat was sensitive to back-pressure. With the kind of pressure being displayed in that video, the pump probably couldn't pump any water at all into the E-Cat, which is another indicator that there are two separate containers of water. It occurs to me that an easy experiment would be to take a pressure tank with a valve like the one at the bottom of the E-Cat, fill it half full of water, pressurize the container to various levels, then open the valve part-way (matching the video), and see how much pressure it takes to produce the same kind of stream. Once the appropriate pressure is found, it would be easy to determine the maximum temperature for liquid water at that pressure, and from that, the amount of heat energy actually being stored in the water. Eff Wivakeef Fri, 20 Jan 2012 09:46:45 -0800 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNhQIufkdL4&feature=related Fast forward to 6:40 Huge blast of steam and hot water. What is going on here?
Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat
If it was, then the entire power calculation is screwed up. With that kind of pressure the water wouldn't convert to steam (and the hose where the steam came out during the demo would have looked dramatically different - 3 bar would be enough to prevent boiling at the measured temperatures). Maybe Rossi uses water as the isolator for his heat storage - and that isolator water was what shot out of the valve at the end. Von: Jed Rothwell An: vortex-l@eskimo.com Gesendet: 18:54 Freitag, 20.Januar 2012 Betreff: Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat Eff Wivakeef wrote: The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts. > > >WTF?| > > >Simple really, there is a store of very hot pressurised hot water stored >within the "Ecat" that has been heated by the electrical input power, There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold fusion. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat
There is no electrical power input. That water was heated EARLIER by the mains power source. Simple really! From: Jed Rothwell To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Sent: Friday, 20 January 2012 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat Eff Wivakeef wrote: The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts. > > >WTF?| > > >Simple really, there is a store of very hot pressurised hot water stored >within the "Ecat" that has been heated by the electrical input power, There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold fusion. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:"unpowered" test of Ecat
Eff Wivakeef wrote: The tap is opened and a GEYSER of steam under high pressure erupts. WTF?| Simple really, there is a store of very hot pressurised hot water stored within the "Ecat" that has been heated by the electrical input power, There is no electric power input. That water was heated by cold fusion. - Jed
