Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??
Jed, If the Papp engine and latest Rossi device shown do indeed work, it causes me to believe that the metal takes part in the reaction only when it comes into contact with the "gremlin" or "lightning ball" dancincing in the voids & cracks. The metal is useful only if you want to create some transmutation by-products, otherwise throw away your nanopowder or metal rod. On Monday, August 13, 2012, Jed Rothwell wrote: > Abd ul-Rahman Lomax 'a...@lomaxdesign.com');>> wrote: > > >> The nickel-hydrogen claims are exciting, but, so far, not adequately >> demonstrated or independently verified. > > > Based on today's presentations at ICCF17, I would say that Brillouin has > done excellent calorimetry. The best of any Ni-H claim I know of. Piantelli > was not bad but this is better. The reaction is large enough that a > calorimetric error is extremely unlikely, with anomalous heat such as 40 W > and 100 W. A very stable, controllable reaction. > > The only thing they are missing is the "independently verified" part. They > are now setting up experiments at SRI that will be completely independent. > They have already begun operating the equipment. I think it is very likely > SRI will confirm this within a few months, and that will be the last hurdle > for this claim. I think when that happens we will be able to say that Ni-H > has as much credibility as Pd-D has, albeit many fewer replications. > > It is unfortunate that Piantelli is clamming up, but in the past he has > not shared information much, and he is now obligated to people providing > venture capital. > > Ni-H has been *very, very* difficult to confirm. It has been marginal for > years, with enough credibility that it had to be taken seriously, yet it > seemed even more uncontrollable than Pd, and in most cases with extremely > low power density. It was always tantalizing yet somehow out of reach. Some > people, such as Krivit, have the notion that there was some kind of > organized opposition to Ni by mainstream researchers. That is absurd. For > as long as I have been following this field, people such as McKubre and > Fleischmann have been yearning to make Ni or Ti work, for the obvious > reason that they are cheap and abundant compared to Pd. The idea that light > water might work was puzzling, to such an extent that I left it out of my > book so as not to confuse the readers. (It isn't a textbook after all.) But > most cold fusion researchers I know shrugged their shoulders and said, > "well, if it works, it works." That was my attitude all along, after I saw > positive Mills results at MIT. > > > By the way, Hagelstein explained Swartz's experiments today. They are > impressive. It is a shame Schwart himself cannot explain them in a way that > most people understand. Hagelstein may be a theorists but he knows how to > explain data and graphs as well as any engineer does. That is high praise > coming from me. > > - Jed > >
Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > The nickel-hydrogen claims are exciting, but, so far, not adequately > demonstrated or independently verified. Based on today's presentations at ICCF17, I would say that Brillouin has done excellent calorimetry. The best of any Ni-H claim I know of. Piantelli was not bad but this is better. The reaction is large enough that a calorimetric error is extremely unlikely, with anomalous heat such as 40 W and 100 W. A very stable, controllable reaction. The only thing they are missing is the "independently verified" part. They are now setting up experiments at SRI that will be completely independent. They have already begun operating the equipment. I think it is very likely SRI will confirm this within a few months, and that will be the last hurdle for this claim. I think when that happens we will be able to say that Ni-H has as much credibility as Pd-D has, albeit many fewer replications. It is unfortunate that Piantelli is clamming up, but in the past he has not shared information much, and he is now obligated to people providing venture capital. Ni-H has been *very, very* difficult to confirm. It has been marginal for years, with enough credibility that it had to be taken seriously, yet it seemed even more uncontrollable than Pd, and in most cases with extremely low power density. It was always tantalizing yet somehow out of reach. Some people, such as Krivit, have the notion that there was some kind of organized opposition to Ni by mainstream researchers. That is absurd. For as long as I have been following this field, people such as McKubre and Fleischmann have been yearning to make Ni or Ti work, for the obvious reason that they are cheap and abundant compared to Pd. The idea that light water might work was puzzling, to such an extent that I left it out of my book so as not to confuse the readers. (It isn't a textbook after all.) But most cold fusion researchers I know shrugged their shoulders and said, "well, if it works, it works." That was my attitude all along, after I saw positive Mills results at MIT. By the way, Hagelstein explained Swartz's experiments today. They are impressive. It is a shame Schwart himself cannot explain them in a way that most people understand. Hagelstein may be a theorists but he knows how to explain data and graphs as well as any engineer does. That is high praise coming from me. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??
Musicians play,Master composers create themes. Here is Cold Fusion and Noble Gas clearly explained. Lets jam, my friends and make variations on this theme. See: http://www.use.com/showorig.pl?set=99f7d8457e3ee4ff74d7&p=1 Or http://www.use.com/99f7d8457e3ee4ff74d7 ComposerSNIPAbd ul-Rahman Lomax Sun, 12 Aug 2012 19:00:41 -0700 At 10:56 AM 8/11/2012, David L Babcock wrote:I was quite able to sleep at nights until I learned that the LENR bunch was finding helium at appropriate levels. You noticed. That finding began and was published by roughly 1993, I forget the exact dates. Miles at China Lake, working with others. It was amply confirmed within a few years. The problem is that PdD cold fusion, as found in the Fleischmann-Pons Heat Effect, is dependent on difficult-to-control conditions, and may not be sufficiently reliable -- ever -- for commercial use, plus palladium and deuterium are quite expensive. *Maybe* it can be developed, and maybe not, and until we understand the mechanism, it's impossible to tell. The nickel-hydrogen claims are exciting, but, so far, not adequately demonstrated or independently verified. (Because even highly convincing demonstrations can be faked, independent verification is what we look for when a field has a high possibility for attracting fraud, or for anything extremely unusual.)SNIP
Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??
At 10:56 AM 8/11/2012, David L Babcock wrote: I was quite able to sleep at nights until I learned that the LENR bunch was finding helium at appropriate levels. You noticed. That finding began and was published by roughly 1993, I forget the exact dates. Miles at China Lake, working with others. It was amply confirmed within a few years. The problem is that PdD cold fusion, as found in the Fleischmann-Pons Heat Effect, is dependent on difficult-to-control conditions, and may not be sufficiently reliable -- ever -- for commercial use, plus palladium and deuterium are quite expensive. *Maybe* it can be developed, and maybe not, and until we understand the mechanism, it's impossible to tell. The nickel-hydrogen claims are exciting, but, so far, not adequately demonstrated or independently verified. (Because even highly convincing demonstrations can be faked, independent verification is what we look for when a field has a high possibility for attracting fraud, or for anything extremely unusual.) There were many people confidently predicting that it would all be over by October of last year, because that was when Rossi was promising product availability. He said "wait until October" many times. October came and went, and all the months after that. Rossi could end this charade at any time, it would be trivial. Many of us have concluded that, if this is real, and it might not be real, he has a motive to make himself look like a total con artist. If that's his motive, he's succeeded. Yet others still simply believe whatever new announcement he's made, or whatever comment anyone else has made that falls short of what we'd need: independent verification. It's an interesting study in our collective gullibility *even if Rossi's devices turn out to be for real.* Papp/Rohner seems to be carefully avoiding making any such investigations. No ashes, therefore NOT nuclear. And so at this point, not convincing (although very exciting). One miracle is enough. LENR can do anything that [maybe!] Papp can, just a tad more complex and expensive -but still leaving hydrocarbons behind in the dust. Plenty of reason for more sleepless nights. Ol' Bab, who was an engineer... I'm only a bit familiar with the story of the interaction with Feynman, which left a man dead. If someone has actually made a running Papp engine, it would be amazing. However, like any such claim, we would be foolish to accept it as true without independent verification. (We also should not reject claims as "impossible." We don't really know what's possible. Improbable, fine. Don't put money into it unless you see enough. And notice the lack of independent confirmation. That is not a sign of the reality of this engine. Beware of frauds. Time will tell.) (The world is full of mysteries which may never be solved.)
Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??
John Rohner mentioned that brown stuff was found in the engine built for Papp. My guess is that this stuff was boron. The other element that is brown is bromine. I would like to know if hydrogen builds up in the noble gas over time. This would mean that protons are a fusion reaction product. Hydrogen ash might make the noble gas lose bounce over a long run time. We do not know if the Rohner engine has done an endurance test in which nuclear ash might build up. If the energy excess seen in the Papp engine does not come from a fusion product, then something really strange is going on. The anomaly the John Rohner talks about is really troubling. In this anomaly, the noble gas exits the cylinder as heat is produced in an external coil until a vacuum is produced in the cylinder. This coil is wound according to the specs found for the coil in the Papp patent and is not used by Rohner. The gas leak might be caused by teleportation of the gas using through another dimension, but that is to wild to even consider, even here at Vortex. Cheers: Axil On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:56 AM, David L Babcock wrote: > On 8/11/2012 10:41 AM, Chemical Engineer wrote: > > Let me add to that last statement, "Generating Energy & Matter" > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Chemical Engineer wrote: > >> I now firmly believe Papp/Rohner, Rossi device, DGT, Brillouin, Celini >> and others are all generating energy by the exact same Nuclear process and >> my prediction of what will come next when the world realizes what this is >> is that ALL HEAVEN AND HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE. >> >> The Papp/Rohner device has the process already somewhat >> optimized/simplified (1500 HP self sustained for months from a 6-cylinder, >> 360CC device, which is PEANUTS for what this device will actually do) and >> Rossi's latest device appears to be using a very similar method to generate >> continuous heat to replace nuclear fuel rods, process heating equipment, >> etc. Throw your nanopowder away. >> >> I really want somebody to slap me to wake me up. My wife is wondering >> why I cannot sleep at night lately. >> >> > I was quite able to sleep at nights until I learned that the LENR bunch > was finding helium at appropriate levels. > > Papp/Rohner seems to be carefully avoiding making any such > investigations. No ashes, therefore NOT nuclear. And so at this point, > not convincing (although very exciting). > > One miracle is enough. LENR can do anything that [maybe!] Papp can, just > a tad more complex and expensive -but still leaving hydrocarbons behind in > the dust. Plenty of reason for more sleepless nights. > > Ol' Bab, who was an engineer... >
Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??
Rohner/Papp is confining ions with a magnetic coil to a very small point in the same way that a void/crack confines ions. I will let you take it from there. They do not have a bunch of powder around for the gremlin to munch on and spew out as nuclear goo which dries to ash on his chin... On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 11:56 AM, David L Babcock wrote: > On 8/11/2012 10:41 AM, Chemical Engineer wrote: > > Let me add to that last statement, "Generating Energy & Matter" > > On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Chemical Engineer wrote: > >> I now firmly believe Papp/Rohner, Rossi device, DGT, Brillouin, Celini >> and others are all generating energy by the exact same Nuclear process and >> my prediction of what will come next when the world realizes what this is >> is that ALL HEAVEN AND HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE. >> >> The Papp/Rohner device has the process already somewhat >> optimized/simplified (1500 HP self sustained for months from a 6-cylinder, >> 360CC device, which is PEANUTS for what this device will actually do) and >> Rossi's latest device appears to be using a very similar method to generate >> continuous heat to replace nuclear fuel rods, process heating equipment, >> etc. Throw your nanopowder away. >> >> I really want somebody to slap me to wake me up. My wife is wondering >> why I cannot sleep at night lately. >> >> > I was quite able to sleep at nights until I learned that the LENR bunch > was finding helium at appropriate levels. > > Papp/Rohner seems to be carefully avoiding making any such > investigations. No ashes, therefore NOT nuclear. And so at this point, > not convincing (although very exciting). > > One miracle is enough. LENR can do anything that [maybe!] Papp can, just > a tad more complex and expensive -but still leaving hydrocarbons behind in > the dust. Plenty of reason for more sleepless nights. > > Ol' Bab, who was an engineer... >
Re: [Vo]:The Next Commercial Device. ALL by same Nuclear process ??
On 8/11/2012 10:41 AM, Chemical Engineer wrote: Let me add to that last statement, "Generating Energy & Matter" On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 10:29 AM, Chemical Engineer mailto:cheme...@gmail.com>> wrote: I now firmly believe Papp/Rohner, Rossi device, DGT, Brillouin, Celini and others are all generating energy by the exact same Nuclear process and my prediction of what will come next when the world realizes what this is is that ALL HEAVEN AND HELL WILL BREAK LOOSE. The Papp/Rohner device has the process already somewhat optimized/simplified (1500 HP self sustained for months from a 6-cylinder, 360CC device, which is PEANUTS for what this device will actually do) and Rossi's latest device appears to be using a very similar method to generate continuous heat to replace nuclear fuel rods, process heating equipment, etc. Throw your nanopowder away. I really want somebody to slap me to wake me up. My wife is wondering why I cannot sleep at night lately. I was quite able to sleep at nights until I learned that the LENR bunch was finding helium at appropriate levels. Papp/Rohner seems to be carefully avoiding making any such investigations. No ashes, therefore NOT nuclear. And so at this point, not convincing (although very exciting). One miracle is enough. LENR can do anything that [maybe!] Papp can, just a tad more complex and expensive -but still leaving hydrocarbons behind in the dust. Plenty of reason for more sleepless nights. Ol' Bab, who was an engineer...
