Re: [Vo]:interview re a sensitive subject
When normal is insane, what does extremism mean? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Ken, special thanks for your nice answer. It is my duty to write an editorial regarding the feedback of my Scientism paper. Peter On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, ken deboer barlaz...@gmail.com wrote: our near relatives ... clearly possess ... manifestations of high mental activity, ... even a primitive and undeveloped sense of mysticism or protoreligion. I'm curious in what species this has been discovered. Eric -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:interview re a sensitive subject
It remind me the doctor who wahs taking care of Kim Jung Hill (or another...who died recently...). He said that that man was normal. It is a place where prisoners in reeducation camp are executed by bath in melted metal (heard in a TV document talking of Mengele replicators from WW2 to now). they execute people that have tried to escape and that Chinese police bring back to death (when local mafia do not enslave them). This man was normal, sensible to cinema... he live in a system of deep terror were not being monstrous mean you will be monstrously treated. You cannot judge why people may collaborate with horror, if you ignore the fear. Science, with less physical violence, is a similar network of communities. You are not bathed in melted steel, but covered with horse manure, and executed by public panel and scientific press. I'm a corp executive, and I know professionally, like many economists know for countries, that the problem is not the individuals (who have intelligence, risk analysis capacities, good will, empathy) but the organization, with intelligent individual who adapt to the psychiatric hospital they live in. What thomas Kuhn explain is that it is required for the normal science to explore the known land ... Without the blinders, scientist would lose much time in questioning all. You need scientific terrorists to explore beyond the frontier. Taleb says that it is the job of entrepreneur, garage inventors, practitioners, lab or field engineers, and other lower species that really do the job. the crisis today is not because of bad normal science, but because on a huge monolithic, rationalized, big science . we need small island of science, independent funding criteria, various independent journals with independent policies... not a cartel of opinion leaders, some planet-wide comon criteria to judge what is good or bad... globally taleb says that big animal, like western science, are fragile. LENR may put it at risk, like AGW... people will lose confidence in that big monopoly of truth. Big science think it is too big to fail, but I'm afraid it is too big to save. Science culture, like banks, or nuclear plant, tankers, have to be small so a catastrophe have a minor impact. There will always hapen catastrophe, good or bad, just have not to break the system. 2013/6/21 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com When normal is insane, what does extremism mean? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote: Dear Ken, special thanks for your nice answer. It is my duty to write an editorial regarding the feedback of my Scientism paper. Peter On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, ken deboer barlaz...@gmail.com wrote: our near relatives ... clearly possess ... manifestations of high mental activity, ... even a primitive and undeveloped sense of mysticism or protoreligion. I'm curious in what species this has been discovered. Eric -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:interview re a sensitive subject
Re Eric's question, what species. The species I had in mind (armchair style) specifically are chimps, bonobos and elephants. I remember odd bits of information (yes, several on TV, in fact) relating how strange elephants, for example, act at times when a herd member dies, even a long time later. I recall seeing pictures of chimps, all alone, doing slow, dreamy dances, pointing to the sky, or tracing their fingers 'thoughtfully' along a rock wall. Just about everyone who has seen examples of animals doing disturbing things like this, get the eerie feeling, that these guys are thinking pretty deep stuff. For any biologist, it is no stretch, knowing the deepest biological similarities, (i.e. 98% DNA homology with the great apes) to imagine what a thin line there is. It shouldn't be construed that, notwithstanding that I am a (old) physiologist, that I have any especial expertise in ethology, ecology, neurobiology or similar animal psychology disciplines upon which to base my speculations on the mental development of species, nor have I read any substantial amount of this literature. It will be one of Man's most fascinating adventures, however, to see the biological (physical) bases of human and animal intelligence explicated by neurobiological measurements in the not far off future. One paper I did run into the other day that jibes with other, similar literature I encountered over the decades, may interest some is : Lynn, Franks, and Savage-Rumbaugh, 2008. Precursors of morality in the use of the symbols good and bad in two bonobos and a chimpanzeeLanguage Communication 28:213-224. best regards, ken On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 1:29 AM, Alain Sepeda alain.sep...@gmail.comwrote: It remind me the doctor who wahs taking care of Kim Jung Hill (or another...who died recently...). He said that that man was normal. It is a place where prisoners in reeducation camp are executed by bath in melted metal (heard in a TV document talking of Mengele replicators from WW2 to now). they execute people that have tried to escape and that Chinese police bring back to death (when local mafia do not enslave them). This man was normal, sensible to cinema... he live in a system of deep terror were not being monstrous mean you will be monstrously treated. You cannot judge why people may collaborate with horror, if you ignore the fear. Science, with less physical violence, is a similar network of communities. You are not bathed in melted steel, but covered with horse manure, and executed by public panel and scientific press. I'm a corp executive, and I know professionally, like many economists know for countries, that the problem is not the individuals (who have intelligence, risk analysis capacities, good will, empathy) but the organization, with intelligent individual who adapt to the psychiatric hospital they live in. What thomas Kuhn explain is that it is required for the normal science to explore the known land ... Without the blinders, scientist would lose much time in questioning all. You need scientific terrorists to explore beyond the frontier. Taleb says that it is the job of entrepreneur, garage inventors, practitioners, lab or field engineers, and other lower species that really do the job. the crisis today is not because of bad normal science, but because on a huge monolithic, rationalized, big science . we need small island of science, independent funding criteria, various independent journals with independent policies... not a cartel of opinion leaders, some planet-wide comon criteria to judge what is good or bad... globally taleb says that big animal, like western science, are fragile. LENR may put it at risk, like AGW... people will lose confidence in that big monopoly of truth. Big science think it is too big to fail, but I'm afraid it is too big to save. Science culture, like banks, or nuclear plant, tankers, have to be small so a catastrophe have a minor impact. There will always hapen catastrophe, good or bad, just have not to break the system. 2013/6/21 James Bowery jabow...@gmail.com When normal is insane, what does extremism mean? On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 12:49 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.comwrote: Dear Ken, special thanks for your nice answer. It is my duty to write an editorial regarding the feedback of my Scientism paper. Peter On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.comwrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, ken deboer barlaz...@gmail.comwrote: our near relatives ... clearly possess ... manifestations of high mental activity, ... even a primitive and undeveloped sense of mysticism or protoreligion. I'm curious in what species this has been discovered. Eric -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:interview re a sensitive subject
I'm not sure if this is the right way to reply to Peter's recent blog guess I'll find out. Dear Peter, Your little essay was rather nicley framed and appropriate at any time. I especially smiled at your explanation of extremism, which I think has some truth to it. Scientism, mysticism, and many other isms, are as you say, very often taken beyond extremism and constitutes a 'bad' and inimical twist in the affairs of man. Like many of you, I have encountered mad scientists' who proclaim their truth and insist that it, and it alone should be followed pretty much exactly. They are, in actual fact, simply then acting as idealogues. They take their place among the myriad other ideologues, mostly religious, but also various other, too often fanatical cults, groups, organizations, beurocracies, etc who throughout history have maintained themselves in more or less control of large segments of society (or energietically tried to). In a word, scientists are people; with all that that entails and implies. As a biologist, it is expected that I see our species in context of our planet's living world. Man as a species (nowperforce the God species) possesses the magic emergent property of complex mental, non-material, activity, self awareness, culture, etc. We all know that this gift is bound by, comes from, and relies solely on, the common earthly biological system; in fact, it all resides in the evolved central nervous system that was inherited out of parts of the Universe. However, Everyone does not, in fact, know this; or we do not believe it, or are forgetful of it. It is so very curious that this most important, really most obvious feature of our whole existence is so oblivously taken for granted and for the most part forgotten entirely for long stretches, or entirely. Similarly, we all 'know' that some of our fellow animals also have capable central nervous systems, and our near relatives are, in fact, exceedingly smart. They clearly possess sefl awareness, culture, and many other manifestations of high mental activity, usch as society, compassion, even a primitive and undeveloped sense of mysticism or protoreligion. It is quite an obvious biological fact that some of these animals are well equipped to, infutre, evolve exactly the same kind and level of mental acrobatics as humans-- and they surely will! It should be obvious too, that Life consists of moment-to-moment continous series of external stimuli interacting with our nervous systems. In essence, for us and our cousins, everything begins and relies on the incomprehensibly complex multitude of neruonal firings going on inside our head. In the end, some of these 'firings' leads some wolves to coordinate with others to decide to kill a moose for their all important well being. Some other neural patterns, in humans, results in a loud prayer to their preferred God, or in shooting a grouse for dinner, or in mass murders, etc etc. So, as has been eloquently expounded by generations of poets, mystics, religious and other writers, we do, as a human species have a fairly clear view of ourselves floating, apparently alone, on a globe in a huge unverse. Significantly, what people also have (along with many of the less far-along species, like wolf packs, chimpanzee bands, or elephants and others) is a seemingly intermittent, hazy floating, and often subconscious , understanding that we are alive and that our continued existence is bound up with our surroundings, or our pack, or band or tribe, or flock. To Peter's plaint then, my point might be that we of mankind are all of a feather, and will hang together, or separately. In the meantime, however, the incredible variation among individuals ensures that messy evolution (biological as well as socia) will continue to happen; Thus unfortunately ensuring that the lives of individuals, and their interactions will continue to be, at various times and places bloody, or brutish, sometimes sublime, sometimes pleasant, but commonly uneven and uncertain. I believe we are making progess but--. On Sun, Jun 16, 2013 at 5:31 AM, Peter Gluck peter.gl...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Readers, I have just published: http://egooutpeters.blogspot.ro/2013/06/lenr-and-scientism.html It is a proof that I don't fear sensitive, somewhat even nasty subjects and I try to make an interview with you all regarding the present and the future of LENR. I hope to learn from your feedback. Please surprise me with your promptitude and sincerity Peter -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
Re: [Vo]:interview re a sensitive subject
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, ken deboer barlaz...@gmail.com wrote: our near relatives ... clearly possess ... manifestations of high mental activity, ... even a primitive and undeveloped sense of mysticism or protoreligion. I'm curious in what species this has been discovered. Eric
Re: [Vo]:interview re a sensitive subject
Dear Ken, special thanks for your nice answer. It is my duty to write an editorial regarding the feedback of my Scientism paper. Peter On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:31 AM, Eric Walker eric.wal...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 3:27 PM, ken deboer barlaz...@gmail.com wrote: our near relatives ... clearly possess ... manifestations of high mental activity, ... even a primitive and undeveloped sense of mysticism or protoreligion. I'm curious in what species this has been discovered. Eric -- Dr. Peter Gluck Cluj, Romania http://egooutpeters.blogspot.com
