Re: [vox-tech] solved puzzle: free du and df disagree about free disk space

[Ken Bloom]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:02:41 -0400
David Hummel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 06:29:31PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> > 
> > on Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 08:25:20AM -0700, Henry House
> > ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > > 
> > > As you can see from these transcripts, 'du' told me that I had
> > > used less than 1 GB on this machine's /var, but according to 'df'
> > > there was still no free space.
> > 
> > Moral Jr:  'du' and 'df' report different statistics.
> > 
> 
> Here's a quick and dirty Perl script I wrote a while back to report
> the accurate size of files and directories.  It uses stat()
> recursively. I'm attaching it in case someone might find it useful. 
> Just call it with your file/dir arguments (or none for the current
> directory).  It seems to work pretty well (I'll rely on the Perl
> hackers in the group to verify).

Define "accurate". Each of the three utilities reports different sizes
that can be used for different purposes.

> > 'df' reports the free space on disk.

This is used to determine how much data you can store in new files.
Files which are held open are 

> > 'du' reports the utilization
> > (in blocks) of detectectable files (by definition:  files which
> > aren't, say, deleted but with handles held open by running
> > processes).  Adding a third mix:  

This is used to determine how much space can be added to df's free space
statistic when the given files are deleted and closed. (Detectable means
that these files still have filenames and paths)

This is also used to determine which files to delete and close(see
below) to bring yourself under quota.

> >'ls' reports not the size-on-disk
> > (used blocks) but actual data size within the file.

This reports the number of bytes of data in the file. If you were to
transfer the file over the network, this value is the one that is most
directly related to how long the transfer the file.

du -b reports file sizes the same way as ls. du (without the -b) is
different from ls.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ du -b *.jpg
461573  phto0001.jpg
478825  phto0002.jpg
[EMAIL PROTECTED] ~]$ du --si *.jpg  #--si uses powers of 1000, not 1024
467kphto0001.jpg
484kphto0002.jpg

I don't know how your perl script works, and what sizes it reports, but
I'm thinking either du or du -b does what you want.

There's another command that's fits into this universe of file size
commands, and that's the"quota" command. Quota reports your disk quota
and usage in blocks. Blocks * block size = the values handled by du and
df.

To demonstrate that closing the files is necessary when deleting them to
come under quota, you can try the following experiment. Use 2 xterms on
a system with quotas. (I used CSIF)

In the first xterm:
 $ quota
 Filesystem  blocks   quota   limit   grace   files   quota   limit 
csifhome:/csifhome
  15412   25600   256001911  1546240 1546240
 $ dd if=/dev/zero of=file bs=1024 count=1024

In the second xterm
 $ less file
now wait until less computes the number of lines in the file
this way, you know that less doesn't close the file after it finishes
reading it

In the first xterm
 $ fuser file
file: 3676
(this demonstrates that less is keeping the 
 file open the whole time it runs)
 $ quota
Disk quotas for user bloom (uid 9740): 
 Filesystem  blocks   quota   limit   grace   files   quota   limit 
csifhome:/csifhome
  16440   25600   256001912  1546240 1546240
 $ rm file
 $ quota
Disk quotas for user bloom (uid 9740): 
 Filesystem  blocks   quota   limit   grace   files   quota   limit 
csifhome:/csifhome
  16440   25600   256001912  1546240 1546240

In the second xterm, quit less

In the first xterm
 $ quota
Disk quotas for user bloom (uid 9740): 
 Filesystem  blocks   quota   limit   grace   files   quota   limit 
csifhome:/csifhome
  15412   25600   256001911  1546240 1546240
   

See that? The quota usage dropped only when you quit less.

--Ken Bloom

-- 
I usually have a GPG digital signature included as an attachment.
See http://www.gnupg.org/ for info about these digital signatures.

G'mar Chatima Tova


pgpmWynDFnts4.pgp
Description: PGP signature
___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] solved puzzle: free du and df disagree about free disk space

[Jeff Newmiller]

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Henry House wrote:

[...]

> So, I stopped all daemons, including sysklogd. Bingo! The missing 1.3G of free
> space appeared. It turned out to be the fault of some large deleted logfiles
> that were still open.
> 
> Moral: run logrotate and restart daemons every few weeks to keep logfiles from
> growing unreasonably large. I am curious how others (such as professional
> sysadmins) keep machines from running out of disk space. How, for example, do
> the K12LTSP users in Hawai'i keep logs from filling up their disks? Full
> filesystems seem to be one of the most common causes of downtime for Linux
> servers.

I am not a pro sysadmin, but I use Debian...

The pros probably run logrotate and/or a script like savelog and a HUP.  
Fully stopping the daemons should not be necessary, as this problem is
normally handled by having daemons that respond to the HUP signal by
closing and reopening all files.

I don't know why, but in Debian Sarge some files are rotated with savelog
(see /etc/cron.daily/sysklogd and /etc/cron.weekly/sysklogd) and others
are rotated with logrotate (/etc/logrotate.conf and
/etc/logrotate.d/). [1] Note that the syslogd-listfiles script that
determines which files are handled by savelog won't report files that have
been rotated in the last 5 hours... this had me scratching my head as to
why logrotate was not configured to handle /var/log/messages, but neither
did /etc/cron.weekly/sysklogd seem to be doing so... really the
cron script does do it.  

Note that the cron script effectively HUPs sysklogd to close files... the
classic sequence for detaching a logfile is to first "mv" the file (which
simply changes the name in the directory while the daemon continues to
write) and then do "kill -HUP the_daemon" to trigger the daemon to close
all logfiles and re-open them.  The cron scripts use savelog to do the
first step while rolling and compressing a few older versions, and then
use the init script to do the second step (using start-stop-daemon with a
--signal 1 aka SIGHUP if the daemon is running, or starting the daemon if
it is not running).

---

[1] http://cert.uni-stuttgart.de/archive/debian/testing/2003/06/msg00062.html

---
Jeff NewmillerThe .   .  Go Live...
DCN:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Basics: ##.#.   ##.#.  Live Go...
  Live:   OO#.. Dead: OO#..  Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/BatteriesO.O#.   #.O#.  with
/Software/Embedded Controllers)   .OO#.   .OO#.  rocks...2k
---


___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] gnuplot help: removing unwanted tickmarks

[Richard Harke]

On Tuesday 21 September 2004 16:04, Henry House wrote:
> I have a graph, made in gnuplot. It has dollars on the left Y axis and
> acres on the right Y axis. Both Y independent Y axes are plotted against a
> common X axis. Unfortunalely, the tickmarks from the left axis appear on
> both sides of the plot, so the right side has two sets of tickmarks, one
> bogus. I don't know how to remove the unwanted tickmarks from the right
> side. Can anyone help?
>
> The gnuplot script and data file are attached.
I used to use gnuplot quite a bit but I never tried this
arrangement before so this is just a guess. I notice that
you have a set y2tics with no parameters and then set y2tics
with  parameters. Is this a typo? If did have a set ytics maybe it
would override some default behavior.

Richard Harke
___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] solved puzzle: free du and df disagree about free disk space

[David Hummel]

On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 06:29:31PM -0700, Karsten M. Self wrote:
> 
> on Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 08:25:20AM -0700, Henry House ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> > 
> > As you can see from these transcripts, 'du' told me that I had used
> > less than 1 GB on this machine's /var, but according to 'df' there
> > was still no free space.
> 
> Moral Jr:  'du' and 'df' report different statistics.
> 
> 'df' reports the free space on disk.  'du' reports the utilization (in
> blocks) of detectectable files (by definition:  files which aren't,
> say, deleted but with handles held open by running processes).  Adding
> a third mix:  'ls' reports not the size-on-disk (used blocks) but
> actual data size within the file.

Here's a quick and dirty Perl script I wrote a while back to report the
accurate size of files and directories.  It uses stat() recursively.
I'm attaching it in case someone might find it useful.  Just call it
with your file/dir arguments (or none for the current directory).  It
seems to work pretty well (I'll rely on the Perl hackers in the group to
verify).

-David


fsize.pl
Description: Perl program
___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] solved puzzle: free du and df disagree about free disk space

[Karsten M. Self]

on Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 08:25:20AM -0700, Henry House ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> romana:/var$ sudo du -hcs *
> 2.6Mbackups
> 24M cache
> 12K dhcp
> 4.0Kgames
> 114Mlib
> 116Klist
> 4.0Klocal
> 4.0Klock
> 793Mlog
> 0   mail
> 52M public_html
> 104Krun
> 4.0Kscratch
> 33M spool
> 16K state
> 296Ktmp
> 1017M   total
> 
> romana:/var$ sudo df -h
> FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
> /dev/sda1 1.4G  1.3G   65M  96% /
> /dev/sda5 2.4G  2.3G 0 100% /var
> 
> As you can see from these transcripts, 'du' told me that I had used
> less than 1 GB on this machine's /var, but according to 'df' there was
> still no free space.  I looked for invisible files (using "find -name
> '.?*'") but found less than 400K of those. The next likely possibility
> was: unliked files still open by running processes, which the kernel
> therefore had not freed.
> 
> So, I stopped all daemons, including sysklogd. Bingo! The missing 1.3G
> of free space appeared. It turned out to be the fault of some large
> deleted logfiles that were still open.
> 
> Moral: run logrotate and restart daemons every few weeks to keep logfiles from
> growing unreasonably large. I am curious how others (such as professional
> sysadmins) keep machines from running out of disk space. How, for example, do
> the K12LTSP users in Hawai'i keep logs from filling up their disks? Full
> filesystems seem to be one of the most common causes of downtime for Linux
> servers.

Moral Jr:  'du' and 'df' report different statistics.

'df' reports the free space on disk.  'du' reports the utilization (in
blocks) of detectectable files (by definition:  files which aren't, say,
deleted but with handles held open by running processes).  Adding a
third mix:  'ls' reports not the size-on-disk (used blocks) but actual
data size within the file.

You can also run 'lsof' to get a list of open files.  Those which have
been deleted (but remain open) will be marked '(deleted)'.  Grep for
these.


Otherwise:  yes, divergence between stats reported by different
utilities often means residual filehandles lying open.  Under a
well-configured system, logrotate _should_ handle termination or
reinitialization of logging daemons properly.


Peace.

-- 
Karsten M. Self <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>http://kmself.home.netcom.com/
 What Part of "Gestalt" don't you understand?
I've been waiting for the right woman to get confused.
- On not being married.


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] Debian Sarge, Video and Monitor Configuration

[Jay Strauss]

On Tue, 2004-09-21 at 12:13, Rick Moen wrote:
> Quoting Jay Strauss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> 
> > I don't have Windows or Knoppix installed on this machine, so I don't have
> > access to those tools you speak of.
> 
> Just in case you don't know, Knoppix is a run-from-CD distribution, and
> doesn't need to be installed onto your hard drive.  Thus, in part
> because it has excellent hardware autodetection, it makes a good tool
> for solving problems like yours.  I try to always keep a recent version
> around, along with my LNX-BBC disk (which I helped design, so I'm biased) 
> and a Tom's Root-Boot floppy.

Thanks Rick, I might go and download a copy of Knoppix

Jay

___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

[vox-tech] gnuplot help: removing unwanted tickmarks

[Henry House]

I have a graph, made in gnuplot. It has dollars on the left Y axis and acres
on the right Y axis. Both Y independent Y axes are plotted against a common
X axis. Unfortunalely, the tickmarks from the left axis appear on both sides
of the plot, so the right side has two sets of tickmarks, one bogus. I don't
know how to remove the unwanted tickmarks from the right side. Can anyone
help?

The gnuplot script and data file are attached.

-- 
Henry House
Please don't send me HTML mail! My mail system will reject it.
The unintelligible text that may follow is a digital signature.
See  to find out how to use it.
My OpenPGP key: .

#year ac  totval
1997 6833   37385000
1998 8410   46837000
1999 8704   35431000
2000 9496   40873000
200110242   33241000
2002 9699   44675000
200310334   37366000
set title 'Grapes, wine'
set terminal postscript
set ylabel "millions of dollars"
set y2label "acres" 
set yrange [0.000:50.000]
set y2range [6000:14000]
set y2tics 
set y2tics 6000, 500, 12000
plot "grapes.dat" using ($1):($3 / 100) axes x1y1 title 'gross value' with lp lw 3 
pt 4, \
"grapes.dat" using ($1):($2) axes x1y2 title 'acres' with lp lw 3 pt 3


signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] Debian Sarge, Video and Monitor Configuration

[Rick Moen]

Quoting Jay Strauss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):

> I don't have Windows or Knoppix installed on this machine, so I don't have
> access to those tools you speak of.

Just in case you don't know, Knoppix is a run-from-CD distribution, and
doesn't need to be installed onto your hard drive.  Thus, in part
because it has excellent hardware autodetection, it makes a good tool
for solving problems like yours.  I try to always keep a recent version
around, along with my LNX-BBC disk (which I helped design, so I'm biased) 
and a Tom's Root-Boot floppy.

-- 
Cheers,"He who hesitates is frost."
Rick Moen -- Inuit proverb
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  
___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] Debian Sarge, Video and Monitor Configuration

[Jay Strauss]

> For your monitor, VertRefresh should be 85 since 85Hz is your monitor's
> capability.  But instead of just setting it to 85, it's best to give it a
> range that it is capable, so X can pick the best one out of all the
> possible ones.  Since most monitors are capable of 60Hz, it's safe to
> assume your monitor is also.  So I'd set your VertRefresh rate to this:
>
>VertRefresh  59-86
>
> As for HorizSync, I don't quite understand that thing.  I usually work
> with the default range, tweaking it as necessary.  As long as you know the
> vertical refresh rate is set properly, it's not too hard to tweak it.  I
> think you can use xvidtune to help you tweak it, too.
>
> BTW, many monitors today has the ability to display its current display
> rate.  So if you have Windows or Knoppix and can get it into the mode that
> you want, you can write down its display setting and apply it in the
> XF86Config-4 file.  For example, by clicking on the [2] button on my
> monitor I see that my Windows XP display (hehe) is currently set to "fH
> 68.7kHz, fV 85.1Hz", which means my display is currently using horizontal
> sync rate of 68.7kHz and vertical refresh rate of 85.1Hz.  So I *could*
> set my XF86Config-4 file to say:
>
>   HorizSync   68-69
>   VertRefresh 85-86
>
> to get the exact same setting.  It's possible I won't get the exact same
> setting, though, so I'd expand the range a bit, like this:
>
>   HorizSync   60-80
>   VertRefresh 70-90
>
> Just approximating, knowing that my awesome Panasonic PanaSync Pro P110i
> monitor I got from Geoff isn't stupid enough to blow up if I enter in some
> bad number.
>
> Just try it.  See if it works using your monitor's display feedback.
> Monitors today don't blow up or smoke away like they used to... not that
> I've ever seen one do that. Thankfully...
>
> BTW, as I mentioned before, being able to set high refresh rates isn't
> just about the video card, but also about the monitor, so you gotta make
> sure the monitor is capable of it, too.  I got the impression that this is
> a laptop computer, and if all you're using is the built-in LCD monitor,
> then it's fine at 60Hz.  If you don't have a CRT monitor that you plug in
> regularly, then keep it at 60Hz to be compatible with various things you
> may end up plugging into (CRT, projector, A/V signal converter, etc. --
> they all work at 60Hz but may not at higher rates!)  Otherwise match it
> with the CRT monitor that you plug into regularly 'cuz it's pointless to
> adjust the rates for things you may never plug into...  Just my 2 cents..
> whatever that really means...! =P
>
> Oh yeah, you're not finding the HorizSync and VertRefresh values for your
> video card on the Internet because those are values for the monitor, not
> the video card!  If you wanna look up those values, look up your CRT
> monitor's specs, not your video card's!
>
> -Mark

Thanks Mark,

I am indeed running a laptop.  I never attach it to a CRT, the only time I
attach an
external monitor to it is when I do a presentation (maybe once a year) and I
hook it up to a projector.

I've been looking for specs on the monitor, but can't seem to find anything
more specific than stuff on the IBM product sales stuff.  Although maybe my
monitor
is only capable of 1400x1050, so maybe I'm OK where I am.

I don't have Windows or Knoppix installed on this machine, so I don't have
access to those tools you speak of.

I'll play with the refresh rates like you describe and see if anything blows
up or smokes :)

Jay

___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

[vox-tech] solved puzzle: free du and df disagree about free disk space

[Henry House]

romana:/var$ sudo du -hcs *
2.6Mbackups
24M cache
12K dhcp
4.0Kgames
114Mlib
116Klist
4.0Klocal
4.0Klock
793Mlog
0   mail
52M public_html
104Krun
4.0Kscratch
33M spool
16K state
296Ktmp
1017M   total

romana:/var$ sudo df -h
FilesystemSize  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
/dev/sda1 1.4G  1.3G   65M  96% /
/dev/sda5 2.4G  2.3G 0 100% /var

As you can see from these transcripts, 'du' told me that I had used less than 1
GB on this machine's /var, but according to 'df' there was still no free space.
I looked for invisible files (using "find -name '.?*'") but found less than
400K of those. The next likely possibility was: unliked files still open by
running processes, which the kernel therefore had not freed.

So, I stopped all daemons, including sysklogd. Bingo! The missing 1.3G of free
space appeared. It turned out to be the fault of some large deleted logfiles
that were still open.

Moral: run logrotate and restart daemons every few weeks to keep logfiles from
growing unreasonably large. I am curious how others (such as professional
sysadmins) keep machines from running out of disk space. How, for example, do
the K12LTSP users in Hawai'i keep logs from filling up their disks? Full
filesystems seem to be one of the most common causes of downtime for Linux
servers.

-- 
Henry House
Please don't send me HTML mail! My mail system will reject it.
The unintelligible text that may follow is a digital signature.
See  to find out how to use it.
My OpenPGP key: .



signature.asc
Description: Digital signature
___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] Debian Sarge, Video and Monitor Configuration

[Jay Strauss]

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Bloom" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jay Strauss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "lugod's technical discussion forum"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 12:41 AM
Subject: Re: [vox-tech] Debian Sarge, Video and Monitor Configuration
On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 10:57:14PM -0500, Jay Strauss wrote:

> You modified your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 by hand, so now debconf is
> reluctant to overwrite it.  From /usr/share/doc/xfree86-common/FAQ.gz
> lines 2071-2073 in sid, you can solve this as follows:
>
>   For /etc/X11/XF86Config-4, do the following as root:
>   md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum
>   dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86

Thanks Ken,

That's working.  I feel like a NOB since what you mentioned is also written
at
the top of the XF86Config file.

Jay

___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech

Re: [vox-tech] Debian Sarge, Video and Monitor Configuration

[Mark K. Kim]

[CC'ing vox-tech for archival purposes, hope that's okay!]

Hi Jay,

For your monitor, VertRefresh should be 85 since 85Hz is your monitor's
capability.  But instead of just setting it to 85, it's best to give it a
range that it is capable, so X can pick the best one out of all the
possible ones.  Since most monitors are capable of 60Hz, it's safe to
assume your monitor is also.  So I'd set your VertRefresh rate to this:

   VertRefresh  59-86

As for HorizSync, I don't quite understand that thing.  I usually work
with the default range, tweaking it as necessary.  As long as you know the
vertical refresh rate is set properly, it's not too hard to tweak it.  I
think you can use xvidtune to help you tweak it, too.

BTW, many monitors today has the ability to display its current display
rate.  So if you have Windows or Knoppix and can get it into the mode that
you want, you can write down its display setting and apply it in the
XF86Config-4 file.  For example, by clicking on the [2] button on my
monitor I see that my Windows XP display (hehe) is currently set to "fH
68.7kHz, fV 85.1Hz", which means my display is currently using horizontal
sync rate of 68.7kHz and vertical refresh rate of 85.1Hz.  So I *could*
set my XF86Config-4 file to say:

  HorizSync   68-69
  VertRefresh 85-86

to get the exact same setting.  It's possible I won't get the exact same
setting, though, so I'd expand the range a bit, like this:

  HorizSync   60-80
  VertRefresh 70-90

Just approximating, knowing that my awesome Panasonic PanaSync Pro P110i
monitor I got from Geoff isn't stupid enough to blow up if I enter in some
bad number.

Just try it.  See if it works using your monitor's display feedback.
Monitors today don't blow up or smoke away like they used to... not that
I've ever seen one do that. Thankfully...

BTW, as I mentioned before, being able to set high refresh rates isn't
just about the video card, but also about the monitor, so you gotta make
sure the monitor is capable of it, too.  I got the impression that this is
a laptop computer, and if all you're using is the built-in LCD monitor,
then it's fine at 60Hz.  If you don't have a CRT monitor that you plug in
regularly, then keep it at 60Hz to be compatible with various things you
may end up plugging into (CRT, projector, A/V signal converter, etc. --
they all work at 60Hz but may not at higher rates!)  Otherwise match it
with the CRT monitor that you plug into regularly 'cuz it's pointless to
adjust the rates for things you may never plug into...  Just my 2 cents..
whatever that really means...! =P

Oh yeah, you're not finding the HorizSync and VertRefresh values for your
video card on the Internet because those are values for the monitor, not
the video card!  If you wanna look up those values, look up your CRT
monitor's specs, not your video card's!

-Mark


On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Jay Strauss wrote:

> > The refresh rate is in /etx/X11/XF86Config-4, under the monitor section:
> >
> >   Section "Monitor"
> > Identifier  "Panasonic"
> > HorizSync   30-100
> > VertRefresh 50-160   < here; apparently my monitor
> > Option  "DPMS" can handle 50Hz to 160Hz
> >   EndSection
> >
> > For LCD monitors, though, I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter what refresh
> > rate you use -- it ends up being 60Hz.  Maybe I'm wrong, but LCD monitors
> > are all very similar in its refresh rate.  It'll make a difference if you
> > plug in an external CRT monitor to your laptop, though then your refresh
> > rate will depend on the external monitor's capability.
> >
> > -Mark
>
> Hi Mark,
>
> My graphics card is capable of 85Hz, but I don't know the refresh rates of
> the vertical and horizontal.  I can't seem to find them on the web either
>
> Thanks
> Jay

-- 
Mark K. Kim
AIM: markus kimius
Homepage: http://www.cbreak.org/
Xanga: http://www.xanga.com/vindaci
Friendster: http://www.friendster.com/user.php?uid=13046
PGP key fingerprint: 7324 BACA 53AD E504 A76E  5167 6822 94F0 F298 5DCE
PGP key available on the homepage
___
vox-tech mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech