Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
Quoting Bob Scofield ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > I have read that apt can be set up for any rpm-based distro. This is thanks to third-party package repositories, and the porting work done by Conectiva. (Essentially, the back-end code to make the various apt tools able to deal with rpm-format tools is a Conectiva-written fork.) > And my Googling has discovered the fact that there are even SuSE users > using apt. But of course these SuSE users have to somehow set up > their package sources. You download/install a canned sources.list file for that purpose inside the RPM. > My point, which you seem in part to agree with, is this. In > mid-April, a SuSE user can pay $59.99 for an upgrade version of SuSE > 9.3. That will get the user many nice things including an upgrade to > KDE 3.4 and Open Office 2.0. But the Debian users are going to > upgrade to KDE 3.4 and Open Office 2.0 for free. FYI: The SUSE licensing model is often misunderstood, and leads to a lot of confusion and avoidable debate. We tend to discuss that quite a bit on the alt.os.linux.suse newsgroup, and I've FAQed the matter, here: "SUSE Product Stratetgy" on http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Licensing_and_Law Your above comparison ignores the differences among SUSE editions, a crucial matter. E.g., SUSE Linux Professional Edition includes a number of packages that are not licensed for redistribution but are included only in retail boxed-sets. In addition, Novell/SUSE does phased rollouts of the various editions, giving earlier access to new software to purchasers of each new release of the boxed-set editions. A few weeks later, it increments Ftp Edition and the others. As of that date, it's my understanding that anyone can download either the (huge) Ftp DVD ISO or the (64MB) mini-installation ISO[1] and run the image's upgrade routine to selectively upgrade whatever packages he wants -- lacking only access to the non-redistributable programs available only in boxed sets. This past Saturday, a fellow was supposed to come by the CABAL meeting at my house in Menlo Park with a copy of SUSE Linux Professional 9.1 to install, and we would have then used the 9.2 mini-installation CD I'd downloaded for him, to grab sundry 9.2 packages. But he didn't drop by. > But I'll bet that Novell will never incorporate apt. If it does, it > will lose it's $59.99 update sales. See, that depends on what Novell/SUSE makes available via apt, and what it doesn't. Which was exactly my point about Xandros. [1] Current releases are at ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/current/iso/ , and mirrors. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Apt-get vs. Dselect
Quoting Karsten Self (kmself@ix.netcom.com): > > My point is that apt-get and dselect are tools at different levels of ^^^ "dpkg" > > abstraction. Comparing them is like comparing carburetors with > > Chevrolets -- except that carburetors by themselves aren't much use, > > whereas apt-get (and aptitude's command-line mode) are. > > Um. apt-get and dselect, or apt-get and dpkg? Typo, as noted. Thanks. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Monday 14 March 2005 12:22 pm, Rick Moen wrote: > > Non sequitur. For example, you can point a Debian box at Xandros's > apt-source hosts, but that will not fetch you some key pieces provided > only in the shrink-wrapped boxed sets of Standard Edition and Deluxe > Edition. I have read that apt can be set up for any rpm-based distro. And my Googling has discovered the fact that there are even SuSE users using apt. But of course these SuSE users have to somehow set up their package sources. My point, which you seem in part to agree with, is this. In mid-April, a SuSE user can pay $59.99 for an upgrade version of SuSE 9.3. That will get the user many nice things including an upgrade to KDE 3.4 and Open Office 2.0. But the Debian users are going to upgrade to KDE 3.4 and Open Office 2.0 for free. Now even a SuSE user can upgrade to KDE 3.4 for free. But a lot of SuSE and Mandrake users will not want to, or be able to, download a new KDE version. A Debian user will get there by simply using some form of apt every once and awhile. SuSE has a very nice online update feature; YOU. You get bug fixes and security updates, and you can get things like Microsoft fonts, and NVIDIA drivers. But I'll bet that Novell will never incorporate apt. If it does, it will lose it's $59.99 update sales. Bob ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Apt-get vs. Dselect
Quoting Bill Kendrick ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > > http://www.togaware.com/wajig/ > > (Scrolling down to the screenshot of 'Gnome JIG'...) > > AGH! MY EYES! The goggles do nothing! They really _do_ need a button that says "Don't press this button again", n'est-ce pas? Or maybe "Don't Panic" in big, friendly letters? ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
Quoting Bob Scofield ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): > I've just been wondering about Jay's question for the last two days. For the > heck of it, I just typed "aptitude install webmin" to see what would happen. > I was told that apache would be installed. I'm just a desktop user with no > need for apache. Webmin is a plugin-extensible framework for administering... anything on the system for which someone has written a webmin module. Access is mediated via a Web server. You use it to administer your machine from a Web browser. > Is webmin really very much like YAST? Is it worth getting? YaST, by comparison, is a two-headed piece of software for SUSE boxes: During installation, it _is_ the installer program. After installation, it's a local program for managing services, package insertion/removal, etc. I can't imagine a better way to decide webmin's merits than to use it. > Of course I do not expect much sympathy from Debian users for this type of > computing. I can't imagine why. And the needs of people wanting something like YaST are probably best met by Debian-derived desktop distributions like Libranet and Xandros Desktop OS. > It is clearly economically suicidal for commercial distros to have > apt. Non sequitur. For example, you can point a Debian box at Xandros's apt-source hosts, but that will not fetch you some key pieces provided only in the shrink-wrapped boxed sets of Standard Edition and Deluxe Edition. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Mon, 2005-03-14 at 10:06 -0800, Bill Kendrick wrote: > > Short for "God's truth" as in "Strewth, mate, me sheila's nicked off > > with all me tinnies this arvo!" > > ... a cockney british accent. Obviously my attempt at a comedy *aussie* accent fell flat. I need to figure out how to use accent emoticons. -- Josh Parsons Philosophy Department 1238 Social Sciences and Humanities Bldg. University of California Davis, CA 95616-8673 USA Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
Bob Scofield wrote: I've been doing a lot of thinking about the use of Debian for newbies and bewbies. Bill's directions to Pete on how to set up "My Computer" on KDE takes care of one thing. Something like YAST would take care of another. And something that partitioned as easily as YAST and Mandrake would be still another. I believe synaptic has already been mentioned on this thread. Is it what you want? I use it to manage Fedora installs (via apt-rpm in the background). Of course I do not expect much sympathy from Debian users for this type of computing. But after Ken's answer to my question about apt upgrading to new versions of open source applications (eventually to Open Office 2.0, for example) I marvel at what Debian is up to. It is clearly economically suicidal for commercial distros to have apt. While Debian is considered geekware, it has tremendous potential to the non-technically inclined. Yes, of course, "rolling updates" completely eliminates upgrade purchases. The concept is not totally revolutionary, though. User-based linux distros have been doing it for some time, Debian and Gentoo being the most prominent. I'm able to do rolling updates with Fedora, now too, which is a hybrid user-base, commercially supported distribution. Even commercial companies offer rolling updates under yearly contract licensing rather than single-purchase licensing. Jonathan ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 09:31:35AM -0800, Bob Scofield wrote: > I've just been wondering about Jay's question for the last two days. For the > heck of it, I just typed "aptitude install webmin" to see what would happen. > I was told that apache would be installed. I'm just a desktop user with no > need for apache. Well, Webmin, as the name implies, is a web-based interface for system administration. I'm currently using it on a machine I'm renting out as a server, and it's actually pretty usable. It provides a web-based GUI interface to control many, many aspects of the system (from log rotation to user accounts). Personally, though, I wouldn't use it on my desktop machine, since I don't do much of those server-y kinds of things at home. > Is webmin really very much like YAST? Is it worth getting? My imperssion was YAST had hardware-detection capabilities, or some-such. So in that sense, no, Webmin is different. (I could be wrong, having never used YAST, and only having used Webmin a little bit, so far!) > Of course I do not expect much sympathy from Debian users for this type of > computing. It depends on which Debian users you're talking to, of course! :^) Personally, I'd love to see Debian become 'the average Joe's' distro, partly because I like what it can do already (the apt-get and other techy stuff), but also because it's "Free." -bill! ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Mon, Mar 14, 2005 at 08:09:08AM -0800, Josh Parsons wrote: > On Mon, 2005-03-14 at 08:25 -0600, Jay Strauss wrote: > > > What's "strewth"? > > Short for "God's truth" as in "Strewth, mate, me sheila's nicked off > with all me tinnies this arvo!" Two recent 'classic' episodes of Simpsons that aired in syndication recently had Bart suggesting he could be a shoe shine, or some other runt-on-the-street, and doing a cockney british accent. I wonder why they stopped doing that gag... it was funny. :^) -bill! ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Apt-get vs. Dselect
On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 08:21:45PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote: > More info at: > > http://www.togaware.com/wajig/ (Scrolling down to the screenshot of 'Gnome JIG'...) AGH! MY EYES! The goggles do nothing! -bill! ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Apt-get vs. Dselect
On Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 08:21:45PM -0800, Karsten M. Self wrote: > Back to aptitude, the basic advantages are outlined by Joey Hess: > >Nine reasons why you should be using aptitude instead of apt-get or >dselect. >http://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2004/04/msg11344.html Well, I'm sold. Time to alias apt-get to: echo "whatchu talkin' 'bout?" (I did that with 'elm' back when I was trying to force my fingers to type 'mutt' whenever I wanted to check my email :) ) -bill! ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Mon 14 Mar 05, 9:31 AM, Bob Scofield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > > Of course I do not expect much sympathy from Debian users for this type of > computing. But after Ken's answer to my question about apt upgrading to new > versions of open source applications (eventually to Open Office 2.0, for > example) I marvel at what Debian is up to. It is clearly economically > suicidal for commercial distros to have apt. While Debian is considered > geekware, it has tremendous potential to the non-technically inclined. > > Bob Interesting thought. While my understanding is that apt has been ported to other distros, like Connectiva (which is now owned by someone else) my sense is that it hasn't really caught on. Maybe it doesn't have the blessing of the distros to which it was ported. You just might have the answer why. I never really thought of it. I always thought apt was Debian-ware simply because Debian is cool (and I think we have to include Gentoo's system in there too). Perhaps the real reason is more of economics of the commercial distros, not the coolness of the non-commercial distros. Even if it's not true, it's still an interesting take. Pete -- Save Star Trek Enterprise from extinction: http://www.saveenterprise.com GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Sunday 13 March 2005 09:34 pm, Karsten M. Self wrote: > on Sun, Mar 13, 2005 at 10:47:06PM -0600, Jay Strauss ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > since wajig was mentioned in the apt-get thread, thought I'd ask. > > > > What kind of GUI configuration/administration tools are available for > > Debian , something like YAST > > bash ;-) > > > Seriously: there's a lot of webmin modules available, but strewth, > Debian emphasizes commandline tools. I've just been wondering about Jay's question for the last two days. For the heck of it, I just typed "aptitude install webmin" to see what would happen. I was told that apache would be installed. I'm just a desktop user with no need for apache. Is webmin really very much like YAST? Is it worth getting? I've been doing a lot of thinking about the use of Debian for newbies and bewbies. Bill's directions to Pete on how to set up "My Computer" on KDE takes care of one thing. Something like YAST would take care of another. And something that partitioned as easily as YAST and Mandrake would be still another. Of course I do not expect much sympathy from Debian users for this type of computing. But after Ken's answer to my question about apt upgrading to new versions of open source applications (eventually to Open Office 2.0, for example) I marvel at what Debian is up to. It is clearly economically suicidal for commercial distros to have apt. While Debian is considered geekware, it has tremendous potential to the non-technically inclined. Bob ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] dvdrecord questions - sao/dao and sessions
On Mon 14 Mar 05, 8:59 AM, Ken Bloom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said: > On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:24:59 -0500 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Jay Salzman) wrote: > > > I can't find an option to set SAO on dvdrecord. From the manpage, it > > *appears* that SAO and DAO are one and the same. Is that true? How > > could they be? > > > > How can burning a dvd in DAO mode be multisession? It seems that -dao > > and-multi are orthogonal, but the manpage seems to hint that they're > > not. > > > > Thanks, > > Peter > > I think that -dao -multi = SAO. > > --Ken Bloom Hmmm. That would certainly explain a lot, but sheesh, that would've been nice to document explicitly. AFAIK, when you use DAO, the TOC is finalized during fixation. Thanks. Pete -- Save Star Trek Enterprise from extinction: http://www.saveenterprise.com GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E 70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] dvdrecord questions - sao/dao and sessions
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 10:24:59 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Peter Jay Salzman) wrote: > I can't find an option to set SAO on dvdrecord. From the manpage, it > *appears* that SAO and DAO are one and the same. Is that true? How > could they be? > > How can burning a dvd in DAO mode be multisession? It seems that -dao > and-multi are orthogonal, but the manpage seems to hint that they're > not. > > Thanks, > Peter I think that -dao -multi = SAO. --Ken Bloom -- I usually have a GPG digital signature included as an attachment. See http://www.gnupg.org/ for info about these digital signatures. pgpcd5ou1RVgD.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
On Mon, 2005-03-14 at 08:25 -0600, Jay Strauss wrote: > What's "strewth"? Short for "God's truth" as in "Strewth, mate, me sheila's nicked off with all me tinnies this arvo!" -- Josh Parsons Philosophy Department 1238 Social Sciences and Humanities Bldg. University of California Davis, CA 95616-8673 USA Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] dvdrecord questions - sao/dao and sessions
I can't find an option to set SAO on dvdrecord. From the manpage, it *appears* that SAO and DAO are one and the same. Is that true? How could they be? How can burning a dvd in DAO mode be multisession? It seems that -dao and -multi are orthogonal, but the manpage seems to hint that they're not. Thanks, Peter ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] YAST equivalent on Debian?
bash ;-) Seriously: there's a lot of webmin modules available, but strewth, Debian emphasizes commandline tools. Ok, so I guess I'm using the proper admin too currently. What's "strewth"? Jay ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
