Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:10 -0700, Tony Cratz wrote: Also, while searching Debian's apt repositories, I saw a package called qorganizer. It appears that one of its saving graces is that it has a very simple file format (that should sync well using git). Now with all of that said (and what has been said before) my ideal PIM is really more complex then what I have been saying. Beside being iCal and Vcard base I would like to be able to sync my laptop PIM with a PIM on my main server. Use Funambol on your main server as a synchronization server, then use SyncEvolution to synchronize events. You could also configure davical or calendarserver as a CalDAV server, and configure evolution to talk to that. Or use qorganizer and use git for synchronization. (I love git for synchronization. If only everybody designed their file formats to synchronize easily without requiring lots of work to resolve conflicts...) The main server PIM would handle most of the event reminders for any client which currently has a live connection to the main PIM. In the case where the laptop is away from the main server it would handle the event reminders locally. This level of intelligence is a tall order for any PIM with an offline mode. If your PIM has an offline mode, then it's going to want to think it's the only one that's available to remind you of each event. (Even on the laptop.) I think when I was using KOrganizer/Kontact (in KDE 3) with my PalmPilot, I solved this problem by just disabling the reminder daemon (since PalmPilot would always remind me), but you need more intelligence than that. For both versions of the PIM I do not want to be forced to use a web GUI. I really want a standalone GUI so my laptop can be (as I'm calling it, as thin as possible. No Apache/PHP|Perl|Ruby stack require. Just a standard Linux program which can be started via the command line or the menu via Gnome or KDE (with a very lite weight daemon to handle events reminders). Anything I've mentioned should be able to handle this (at least if it can handle reminders). Also as Rick mention I have seen a number of PIMs which seem to bloat up and have creepy featurism. They start to turn into a full E-mail client (such as Lightning/Thunderbird and Evolution) If you can ignore the mail component, is that such a problem? Also most are now moving toward web base requiring a web server. Not any of the ones I mentioned. (Evolution Data Server isn't a web server -- I think it's either a DBUS or CORBA server that just acts as a storage back end for the PIM on the local machine only. Akonadi, which KOrganizer uses, is the same kind of DBUS server.) Myself I don't need to be able to store images of a customer Gold Fish in my PIM. I also don't need to have a 4 generation family history for a contact. I don't know of any PIM that stores those things :) I should also say, yes I know that if I have an address book in my PIM I may/will desire to share it with the E-mail client in the future. But the same could be said about a softphone. To me the PIM should be the central core and the other clients (E-mail, softphone, browser) should be able to query the PIM database as needed. This would be a change of mind set from the current method. Then you either want the Kontact/Kmail/Kopete solution, or you want the Evolution/Pidgin solution. (I don't think either of them can talk to Skype, and I don't think either of them has a SIP phone application that integrates with their data store.) BTW thanks for the discussion. I'm finding it helpful and I hope others may also gain something from the discussion. At present I'm not sure I will find the type of PIM I'm looking for. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 08:54:42AM -0500, Chanoch (Ken) Bloom wrote: On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:10 -0700, Tony Cratz wrote: Also, while searching Debian's apt repositories, I saw a package called qorganizer. It appears that one of its saving graces is that it has a very simple file format (that should sync well using git). Now with all of that said (and what has been said before) my ideal PIM is really more complex then what I have been saying. Beside being iCal and Vcard base I would like to be able to sync my laptop PIM with a PIM on my main server. Use Funambol on your main server as a synchronization server, then use SyncEvolution to synchronize events. You could also configure davical or calendarserver as a CalDAV server, and configure evolution to talk to that. This Funambol looks interesting. Have you configured it? I am in the process of downloading the source. brian -- Brian E. Lavender http://www.brie.com/brian/ All too often, developers spend a majority of their time integrating disparate technologies, manually tracking state, struggling to understand JSF, wrestling with Hibernate exceptions, and constantly redeploying applications, rather than on the logic pertaining to the business at hand. - Seam Overview ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
On Wed, 2010-05-12 at 12:27 -0700, Brian Lavender wrote: On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 08:54:42AM -0500, Chanoch (Ken) Bloom wrote: On Tue, 2010-05-11 at 22:10 -0700, Tony Cratz wrote: Also, while searching Debian's apt repositories, I saw a package called qorganizer. It appears that one of its saving graces is that it has a very simple file format (that should sync well using git). Now with all of that said (and what has been said before) my ideal PIM is really more complex then what I have been saying. Beside being iCal and Vcard base I would like to be able to sync my laptop PIM with a PIM on my main server. Use Funambol on your main server as a synchronization server, then use SyncEvolution to synchronize events. You could also configure davical or calendarserver as a CalDAV server, and configure evolution to talk to that. This Funambol looks interesting. Have you configured it? I am in the process of downloading the source. I downloaded a binary package of Funambol, and installed it in /opt. The binary package is self-contained, so I start funambol with /opt/Funambol/bin/funambol start and stop it with /opt/Funambol/bin/funambol stop. I think that funambol's default mode is to learn about its users automatically as they log in for the first time. (There must be a way to turn that off if it poses a security risk, but I don't know what that is.) If you're using Debian the virtuoso-vad-syncml packages is another SyncML server. I haven't used it myself, so I can't say anything about it. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Quoting Scott Miller (scottli...@gmail.com): http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird/download.html Yeah looks like sunbird is not in development anymore. Their site says This is the last public Sunbird release by the Calendar Project. We recommend upgrading to Thunderbird 3 and Lightning 1.0 beta1. I should note that Lightning basically _is_ Sunbird. Sunbird was a bunch of XUL interpreted code for iCAL / CalDAV / DAViCal functionality atop the Mozilla portable runtime. Lightning is that same XUL code refactored to run on the Mozilla portable runtime inside Thunderbird 3.0.x or SeaMonkey 2.0. It might be possible to run it on Firefox's copy of the Mozilla portable runtime, though that's not addressed in the Web site's docs. Seems likely that there's been enough rewriting to accomodate Thunderbird 3 as host that that might be nontrivial. ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Scott Miller (scottli...@gmail.com): http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird/download.html Yeah looks like sunbird is not in development anymore. Their site says This is the last public Sunbird release by the Calendar Project. We recommend upgrading to Thunderbird 3 and Lightning 1.0 beta1. I should note that Lightning basically _is_ Sunbird. Sunbird was a bunch of XUL interpreted code for iCAL / CalDAV / DAViCal functionality atop the Mozilla portable runtime. Lightning is that same XUL code refactored to run on the Mozilla portable runtime inside Thunderbird 3.0.x or SeaMonkey 2.0. It might be possible to run it on Firefox's copy of the Mozilla portable runtime, though that's not addressed in the Web site's docs. Seems likely that there's been enough rewriting to accomodate Thunderbird 3 as host that that might be nontrivial. While I understand that Lightning is really Sunbird it is not a standalone client. It requires having Thunderbird up and running. I really want a true standalone client which does not require any Internet connection, this is where Sunbird was a major win over Lightning. Tony ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Quoting Tony Cratz (cr...@hematite.com): While I understand that Lightning is really Sunbird it is not a standalone client. It requires having Thunderbird up and running. I really want a true standalone client which does not require any Internet connection, this is where Sunbird was a major win over Lightning. Yes, I do understand your dilemma. You could try seeing if you can hack the glue code so as to use just what's needed from Thunderbird's own XUL / C++ / JavaScript / CSS to support the Lightning XPI on top of Gecko (the Mozilla runtime). However, I suspect that'd be way too much work, since Mozilla Foundation (/Oracle Corp./whoever) appear to be targeting Outlook/Exchange schedule event handling, and thus see scheduling as incidental to e-mail. There was a time when I kept track of scheduling apps in Linux development space (both client and server end), with a particular interest in iCalendar support. You can find that in my Web site's knowledgebase in the obvious place (http://linuxmafia.com/kb/Apps, I think). However, I kept seeing projects wander off into some painfully overengineered groupweare direction, rather than doing a nice, clean, simple implementation, and became a bit disheartened, so my page on the subject is a little out of date. There is also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_applications_with_iCalendar_support ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Tony Cratz wrote: Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Scott Miller (scottli...@gmail.com): http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird/download.html Yeah looks like sunbird is not in development anymore. Their site says This is the last public Sunbird release by the Calendar Project. We recommend upgrading to Thunderbird 3 and Lightning 1.0 beta1. I should note that Lightning basically _is_ Sunbird. Sunbird was a bunch of XUL interpreted code for iCAL / CalDAV / DAViCal functionality atop the Mozilla portable runtime. Lightning is that same XUL code refactored to run on the Mozilla portable runtime inside Thunderbird 3.0.x or SeaMonkey 2.0. It might be possible to run it on Firefox's copy of the Mozilla portable runtime, though that's not addressed in the Web site's docs. Seems likely that there's been enough rewriting to accomodate Thunderbird 3 as host that that might be nontrivial. While I understand that Lightning is really Sunbird it is not a standalone client. It requires having Thunderbird up and running. I really want a true standalone client which does not require any Internet connection, this is where Sunbird was a major win over Lightning. Tony Thunderbird only requires an internet connection if you configure email accounts or online/synced calendars. It is capable of running in offline mode(You can even set the default to offline), and I do this all the time with my laptop. Just a correction of facts, I realize this doesn't solve your issue of wanting a good standalone offline calendar. A quick look through the package manager shows a few options but most seem to be very web dependent. Chandler and KOrganizer came up as some options to explore based on a web search. Alex ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Alex Mandel wrote: Tony Cratz wrote: Rick Moen wrote: Quoting Scott Miller (scottli...@gmail.com): http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird/download.html Yeah looks like sunbird is not in development anymore. Their site says This is the last public Sunbird release by the Calendar Project. We recommend upgrading to Thunderbird 3 and Lightning 1.0 beta1. I should note that Lightning basically _is_ Sunbird. Sunbird was a bunch of XUL interpreted code for iCAL / CalDAV / DAViCal functionality atop the Mozilla portable runtime. Lightning is that same XUL code refactored to run on the Mozilla portable runtime inside Thunderbird 3.0.x or SeaMonkey 2.0. It might be possible to run it on Firefox's copy of the Mozilla portable runtime, though that's not addressed in the Web site's docs. Seems likely that there's been enough rewriting to accomodate Thunderbird 3 as host that that might be nontrivial. While I understand that Lightning is really Sunbird it is not a standalone client. It requires having Thunderbird up and running. I really want a true standalone client which does not require any Internet connection, this is where Sunbird was a major win over Lightning. Tony Thunderbird only requires an internet connection if you configure email accounts or online/synced calendars. It is capable of running in offline mode(You can even set the default to offline), and I do this all the time with my laptop. Just a correction of facts, I realize this doesn't solve your issue of wanting a good standalone offline calendar. A quick look through the package manager shows a few options but most seem to be very web dependent. Chandler and KOrganizer came up as some options to explore based on a web search. Alex A couple more: Rainlendar http://www.rainlendar.net/cms/index.php Orage http://www.kolumbus.fi/~w408237/orage/ Enjoy, Alex ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
On Sun, May 09, 2010 at 10:12:52PM -0700, Tony Cratz wrote: Hello: I just updated today to Ubuntu 10.04 and found out the Google calendar program Sunbird is no longer supported. So I'm now looking for a replacement. I really like a standalone program and not a web base. I also don't want it bundle with Evolution as I don't use Evolution. Any suggestions? Now that you've explained (elsewhere in the thread) that your concern with Evolution is the email component, might I suggest having a look at dates, contacts and tasks which are very lightweight PIM apps (really designed for small PDA devices -- I use it on my Nokia 770). Their data store is the Evolution Data Server, so they're fully interoperable with Evolution (they're basically another frontend to the same data). For synchronizing to other places, you can use SyncEvolution, which speaks SyncML. (I don't think Google calendar supports synchronizing by SyncML yet, but there are a number of other services that do.) While I'm on the subject, why wouldn't Evolution work in offline mode, without configuring email at all. Each of Evolution's different functions (Tasks, Calendar, Notes, Contacts, Email) gets equal billing in the interface -- they're all equally important citizens, so if you don't want it to do email, you won't find that you're always starting in email mode, or anything like that. You might also consider KOrganizer. --Ken -- Chanoch (Ken) Bloom. PhD candidate. Linguistic Cognition Laboratory. Department of Computer Science. Illinois Institute of Technology. http://www.iit.edu/~kbloom1/ ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Chanoch (Ken) Bloom wrote: While I'm on the subject, why wouldn't Evolution work in offline mode, without configuring email at all. Each of Evolution's different functions (Tasks, Calendar, Notes, Contacts, Email) gets equal billing in the interface -- they're all equally important citizens, so if you don't want it to do email, you won't find that you're always starting in email mode, or anything like that. I'm not a real fan of Evolution as a mail client. It does a good job don't get me wrong. I'm just not a real fan. With that said, I may take a look at it. You might also consider KOrganizer. Really I think you mean Kontact which is the megapackage which include KOrganizer along with Kaddressbook. I have used Kaddressbook but was not fully happy with it. I have not looked at Kontact or KOrganizer yet. Again I may. I have taken a quick look at Osmo and it is closer to what I want but still not fully there. As both you and Rich pointed out I am looking for a PIM. In years gone past I used a deadtree version of a PIM based on the Franklin Daytimer Organizer. While the Daytimer had limits (being a deadtree for one) it had most of the features (except for an real event reminder alarm) I'm looking for. Also in the past I used the old Unix command 'calendar' used an plain text .calendar file containing a date field and a value field. It was nice to use as a birthday reminder but it was poor for the adhoc non-repeating events as it would only run once a day and require hand editing the file. I should also say while Sunbird was a fair PIM it was not really what I was looking for either. To handle events it required to leave Sunbird up and running all of the time (no daemon process to deal with event reminders). I also was not really happy with the syncing of data. Now with all of that said (and what has been said before) my ideal PIM is really more complex then what I have been saying. Beside being iCal and Vcard base I would like to be able to sync my laptop PIM with a PIM on my main server. The main server PIM would handle most of the event reminders for any client which currently has a live connection to the main PIM. In the case where the laptop is away from the main server it would handle the event reminders locally. For both versions of the PIM I do not want to be forced to use a web GUI. I really want a standalone GUI so my laptop can be (as I'm calling it, as thin as possible. No Apache/PHP|Perl|Ruby stack require. Just a standard Linux program which can be started via the command line or the menu via Gnome or KDE (with a very lite weight daemon to handle events reminders). Also as Rick mention I have seen a number of PIMs which seem to bloat up and have creepy featurism. They start to turn into a full E-mail client (such as Lightning/Thunderbird and Evolution) or they start to move more toward a CRM (such as SugarCRM). Also most are now moving toward web base requiring a web server. Myself I don't need to be able to store images of a customer Gold Fish in my PIM. I also don't need to have a 4 generation family history for a contact. I should also say, yes I know that if I have an address book in my PIM I may/will desire to share it with the E-mail client in the future. But the same could be said about a softphone. To me the PIM should be the central core and the other clients (E-mail, softphone, browser) should be able to query the PIM database as needed. This would be a change of mind set from the current method. BTW thanks for the discussion. I'm finding it helpful and I hope others may also gain something from the discussion. At present I'm not sure I will find the type of PIM I'm looking for. Tony ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Somehow, Tony replied to vox-tech-bounces rather than vox-tech. :^? -bill! - Forwarded message from mailman-boun...@lists.lugod.org - Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 23:10:52 -0700 From: mailman-boun...@lists.lugod.org Subject: Uncaught bounce notification To: vox-tech-ow...@lists.lugod.org The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s). For more information see: http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/admin/vox-tech/bounce Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 23:00:47 -0700 From: Tony Cratz cr...@hematite.com Subject: Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement To: vox-tech-boun...@lists.lugod.org Alex Mandel wrote: It was never supported by canonical and could have been dropped simply because no one maintained the package. It remains available just not in the default repositories from Ubuntu. Binaries are on the mozilla website. You might also find a build on Launchpad or try the Lightning extension for Thunderbird (which is very linked to sunbird development). Yes I know I can download it from Mozilla but I really would like to have it as a package so I don't have to worry about updating it myself. Right now I'm taking a look at Osmo. It may do some of what I need but it is not really what I want. Tony - End forwarded message - -- -bill! Sent from my computer ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/sunbird/download.html Yeah looks like sunbird is not in development anymore. Their site says This is the last public Sunbird release by the Calendar Project. We recommend upgrading to Thunderbird 3 and Lightning 1.0 beta1. :/ On Mon, 2010-05-10 at 04:47 -0700, Bill Kendrick wrote: Somehow, Tony replied to vox-tech-bounces rather than vox-tech. :^? -bill! - Forwarded message from mailman-boun...@lists.lugod.org - Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 23:10:52 -0700 From: mailman-boun...@lists.lugod.org Subject: Uncaught bounce notification To: vox-tech-ow...@lists.lugod.org The attached message was received as a bounce, but either the bounce format was not recognized, or no member addresses could be extracted from it. This mailing list has been configured to send all unrecognized bounce messages to the list administrator(s). For more information see: http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/admin/vox-tech/bounce Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 23:00:47 -0700 From: Tony Cratz cr...@hematite.com Subject: Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement To: vox-tech-boun...@lists.lugod.org Alex Mandel wrote: It was never supported by canonical and could have been dropped simply because no one maintained the package. It remains available just not in the default repositories from Ubuntu. Binaries are on the mozilla website. You might also find a build on Launchpad or try the Lightning extension for Thunderbird (which is very linked to sunbird development). Yes I know I can download it from Mozilla but I really would like to have it as a package so I don't have to worry about updating it myself. Right now I'm taking a look at Osmo. It may do some of what I need but it is not really what I want. Tony - End forwarded message - -- Scott ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
[vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Hello: I just updated today to Ubuntu 10.04 and found out the Google calendar program Sunbird is no longer supported. So I'm now looking for a replacement. I really like a standalone program and not a web base. I also don't want it bundle with Evolution as I don't use Evolution. Any suggestions? Tony ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
Re: [vox-tech] Looking for a Sunbird (Google Calendar) replacement
Tony Cratz wrote: Hello: I just updated today to Ubuntu 10.04 and found out the Google calendar program Sunbird is no longer supported. So I'm now looking for a replacement. I really like a standalone program and not a web base. I also don't want it bundle with Evolution as I don't use Evolution. Any suggestions? Tony It was never supported by canonical and could have been dropped simply because no one maintained the package. It remains available just not in the default repositories from Ubuntu. Binaries are on the mozilla website. You might also find a build on Launchpad or try the Lightning extension for Thunderbird (which is very linked to sunbird development). Alex ___ vox-tech mailing list vox-tech@lists.lugod.org http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
