Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Ken Herron]

Jeff Newmiller wrote:
The shell is broken from the mobo... the pins that rise from the mobo and
bend horizontally and have sleeves on them to recieve the plug pins are
bent every which way, and attempts to bend them back have simply resulted
in broken pins... there is no elasticity left in the metal.
It's a long shot, but if you were to go to HSC, you might be able to 
find an identical motherboard, or some kind of replacement that takes 
the same CPU/memory. The used/surplus motherboards they stock tend to be 
for extremely out-of-date stuff.

Short of that, I think your best bet is to somehow get a monitor hooked 
to the existing connector.  
has the pinout for the standard video port. It probably isn't necessary 
to hook up all of the color pins.

As a last-ditch method, if you can identify a particular chip that 
provides the onboard video you could try disabling it somehow. If the 
onboard video fails at boot time, the BIOS might automatically switch to 
an external video card.
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Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Mark K. Kim]

Oh oh oh oh!!!  Use the PrntScrn button to print the screen you can't
see!!!  Shouldn't take more than 10 pages! =P

Happy new [solar] year, everyone!

-Mark


On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, Shwaine wrote:

> On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, Jeff Newmiller wrote:
> >
> > I downloaded the pdf manual for the mobo, and followed the instructions to
> > press the right keys to go through the BIOS menus, using the keyboard
> > lights to tell me when I was "in" and when I had "left the
> > BIOS".  However, I don't know EXACTLY which keys to press to make changes
> > in this BIOS... I have used Phoenix bioses before, though, and think that
> > "enter" opens a little dialog box with a list of options, of which the pdf
> > says I have two, so I press "up" or "down" (have tried both a couple of
> > times) and press enter again to complete the selection.
> >
>
> There in lays your problem. The method of getting input varies by BIOS
> maker and version. Does the PDF manual have screen captures of the BIOS
> screen? If so, enlarge the page and look closely at the bottom for a
> legend of navigation keys. I've got two motherboard manuals that have
> Phoenix BIOS overviews and both have slightly different navigation keys.
> The older one suggests using PgUp and PgDown to select values, but also
> has +/- listed on the bottom in its navigation legend. The newer manual
> just has +/- listed in the legend.
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Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Shwaine]

On Sat, 1 Jan 2005, Jeff Newmiller wrote:
I downloaded the pdf manual for the mobo, and followed the instructions to
press the right keys to go through the BIOS menus, using the keyboard
lights to tell me when I was "in" and when I had "left the
BIOS".  However, I don't know EXACTLY which keys to press to make changes
in this BIOS... I have used Phoenix bioses before, though, and think that
"enter" opens a little dialog box with a list of options, of which the pdf
says I have two, so I press "up" or "down" (have tried both a couple of
times) and press enter again to complete the selection.
There in lays your problem. The method of getting input varies by BIOS 
maker and version. Does the PDF manual have screen captures of the BIOS 
screen? If so, enlarge the page and look closely at the bottom for a 
legend of navigation keys. I've got two motherboard manuals that have 
Phoenix BIOS overviews and both have slightly different navigation keys. 
The older one suggests using PgUp and PgDown to select values, but also 
has +/- listed on the bottom in its navigation legend. The newer manual 
just has +/- listed in the legend.
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Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Jeff Newmiller]

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004, Mark K. Kim wrote:

> What do you mean the connector is "smashed"?  If the conductors inside the
> connector are live, you can stick a wire into the holes and temporarily
> connect them to a monitor -- just need a female DB15 connector (HSC may
> have some?) and smoe soldering tools.

The shell is broken from the mobo... the pins that rise from the mobo and
bend horizontally and have sleeves on them to recieve the plug pins are
bent every which way, and attempts to bend them back have simply resulted
in broken pins... there is no elasticity left in the metal.

> 
> Also, this probably isn't applicable, but it used to be that some
> computers complained if you didn't have any monitor or video card attached
> to the computer.  If that's the case, you may need to press a key (F1, F2,
> DEL?) at a different time before going into the BIOS.

I downloaded the pdf manual for the mobo, and followed the instructions to
press the right keys to go through the BIOS menus, using the keyboard
lights to tell me when I was "in" and when I had "left the
BIOS".  However, I don't know EXACTLY which keys to press to make changes
in this BIOS... I have used Phoenix bioses before, though, and think that
"enter" opens a little dialog box with a list of options, of which the pdf
says I have two, so I press "up" or "down" (have tried both a couple of
times) and press enter again to complete the selection.

> 
> If you wanna be funky: Install a dual-head X configuration on the hard
> drive from a different computer then stick it into the computer?

That is beyond me... you assume I have hardware nearby that is comparable
to this hardware with which to create and test this image.  But it is an
interesting idea.

> Or you might wanna try: Find another computer with the same hardware,
> setup the BIOS as you would like on your computer, back up the BIOS using
> a BIOS backup tool on that computer, then move over to your computer
> restore the BIOS onto it (it's usually a DOS tool -- make a boot disk with
> AUTOEXEC.BAT setup to update the BIOS automatically on boot.)  BIOS data
> are usually structured differently from BIOS to BIOS, but there's a data
> location reserved for BIOSes that are used by all BIOS vendors, so backing
> it up and restoring it is same for all vendors.  I think some vendors use
> extended memory areas, though, so you should double check before using the
> backup tool.

I have heard of this before, but don't have the alternate hardware
available.

> Are you sure you can't just start using the new video card just by
> sticking it into the BUS?

Yes, because I tried that first.

>  I'm sure you could if the on-board video is
> just totally broken and unavailable for access to the BIOS!  Just smash it
> some more and see what happens! =P

Er, I think the video functionality is in an IC that also includes many
other functions I don't want to smash.

> 
> Just some ideas!

Hm.  I posted this question mostly in frustration that the state of
hardware is such that they no longer provide a way to bypass the onboard
video using jumpers... and was hoping that I was wrong. This seems like
throwaway engineering. :(

> 
> -Mark
> 
> Disclaimer: Don't do anything that breaks things...

I don't get much thrill out of smashing stuff... particularly electronic
stuff.  I think you have to anthropomorphize these things to build that
kind of attitude up... and they are just machines to me.

I do like disassembling crashed hard disks, though... the best
refrigerator magnets are in there. (I'm not impressed anymore with the
platters, though I remember when I was.)

> 
> 
> On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Jeff Newmiller wrote:
> 
> > Friend of mine gave up on this P4 2.6Ghz computer, seems a waste though.
> > His wife got frustrated one day trying to move the computer and broke the
> > onboard video connector (yes, those are screws on the side of that
> > connector)... it is pretty smashed. I took out their hard disk and put it
> > into another of their computers, and they gave me the rest of the cpu box.
> > I may end up buying a $60 mobo, but wouldn't mind running it headless if I
> > could throw a $10 video card into it to set up the machine with.  The
> > problem, of course, is that the mobo doesn't have an internal video
> > override jumper... you have to use the Pheonix BIOS to switch to "Primary
> > video = PCI".  I've tried to do this blind with an old PCI video card
> > plugged in, but it isn't working and of course I can't figure out why.
> > The keyboard lights blink at the appropriate times, so I am changing
> > something.
> >
> > Anyone have any ideas, or is this mobo just really hosed?
> >
> > ---
> > Jeff NewmillerThe .   .  Go Live...
> > DCN:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Basics: ##.#.   ##.#.  Live Go...
> >   Live:   OO#.. Dead: OO#..  Playing
> > Research Engin

Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Mark K. Kim]

What do you mean the connector is "smashed"?  If the conductors inside the
connector are live, you can stick a wire into the holes and temporarily
connect them to a monitor -- just need a female DB15 connector (HSC may
have some?) and smoe soldering tools.

Also, this probably isn't applicable, but it used to be that some
computers complained if you didn't have any monitor or video card attached
to the computer.  If that's the case, you may need to press a key (F1, F2,
DEL?) at a different time before going into the BIOS.

If you wanna be funky: Install a dual-head X configuration on the hard
drive from a different computer then stick it into the computer?

Or you might wanna try: Find another computer with the same hardware,
setup the BIOS as you would like on your computer, back up the BIOS using
a BIOS backup tool on that computer, then move over to your computer
restore the BIOS onto it (it's usually a DOS tool -- make a boot disk with
AUTOEXEC.BAT setup to update the BIOS automatically on boot.)  BIOS data
are usually structured differently from BIOS to BIOS, but there's a data
location reserved for BIOSes that are used by all BIOS vendors, so backing
it up and restoring it is same for all vendors.  I think some vendors use
extended memory areas, though, so you should double check before using the
backup tool.

Are you sure you can't just start using the new video card just by
sticking it into the BUS?  I'm sure you could if the on-board video is
just totally broken and unavailable for access to the BIOS!  Just smash it
some more and see what happens! =P

Just some ideas!

-Mark

Disclaimer: Don't do anything that breaks things...


On Wed, 29 Dec 2004, Jeff Newmiller wrote:

> Friend of mine gave up on this P4 2.6Ghz computer, seems a waste though.
> His wife got frustrated one day trying to move the computer and broke the
> onboard video connector (yes, those are screws on the side of that
> connector)... it is pretty smashed. I took out their hard disk and put it
> into another of their computers, and they gave me the rest of the cpu box.
> I may end up buying a $60 mobo, but wouldn't mind running it headless if I
> could throw a $10 video card into it to set up the machine with.  The
> problem, of course, is that the mobo doesn't have an internal video
> override jumper... you have to use the Pheonix BIOS to switch to "Primary
> video = PCI".  I've tried to do this blind with an old PCI video card
> plugged in, but it isn't working and of course I can't figure out why.
> The keyboard lights blink at the appropriate times, so I am changing
> something.
>
> Anyone have any ideas, or is this mobo just really hosed?
>
> ---
> Jeff NewmillerThe .   .  Go Live...
> DCN:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Basics: ##.#.   ##.#.  Live Go...
>   Live:   OO#.. Dead: OO#..  Playing
> Research Engineer (Solar/BatteriesO.O#.   #.O#.  with
> /Software/Embedded Controllers)   .OO#.   .OO#.  rocks...1k
> ---
>
> ___
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> http://lists.lugod.org/mailman/listinfo/vox-tech
>

-- 
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Homepage: http://www.cbreak.org/
Xanga: http://www.xanga.com/vindaci
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Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Peter Jay Salzman]

On Thu 30 Dec 04, 11:03 AM, Henry House <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> På torsdag, 30 december 2004, skrev Peter Jay Salzman:
> [...]
> > Also, I thought someone had asked this exact question on vox-tech a couple
> > of years ago.   Was it Henry House?  Could be wrong.
> 
> I asked about redirecting BIOS IO to the serial port at one point. The only
> solution to this turned out to be getting a non-i386 machine. :-(
 
Ah, yeah.  That's what I was thinking of.  I remember putting brain power
into a "similar" question, but couldn't remember what the question actually
was.   :-P

Pete

-- 
The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more
complicated.  The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated.
He also appears to like group theory.  --  Tony Zee's "Fearful Symmetry"

GPG Fingerprint: B9F1 6CF3 47C4 7CD8 D33E  70A9 A3B9 1945 67EA 951D
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Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Henry House]

På torsdag, 30 december 2004, skrev Peter Jay Salzman:
[...]
> Also, I thought someone had asked this exact question on vox-tech a couple
> of years ago.   Was it Henry House?  Could be wrong.

I asked about redirecting BIOS IO to the serial port at one point. The only
solution to this turned out to be getting a non-i386 machine. :-(

-- 
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+1 530 753 3361 ext. 13
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Re: [vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Peter Jay Salzman]

On Wed 29 Dec 04,  4:35 PM, Jeff Newmiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> tatus: RO
> Content-Length: 1605
> Lines: 28
> 
> Friend of mine gave up on this P4 2.6Ghz computer, seems a waste though.  
> His wife got frustrated one day trying to move the computer and broke the
> onboard video connector (yes, those are screws on the side of that
> connector)... it is pretty smashed. I took out their hard disk and put it
> into another of their computers, and they gave me the rest of the cpu box.  
> I may end up buying a $60 mobo, but wouldn't mind running it headless if I
> could throw a $10 video card into it to set up the machine with.  The
> problem, of course, is that the mobo doesn't have an internal video
> override jumper... you have to use the Pheonix BIOS to switch to "Primary
> video = PCI".  I've tried to do this blind with an old PCI video card
> plugged in, but it isn't working and of course I can't figure out why.  
> The keyboard lights blink at the appropriate times, so I am changing
> something.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas, or is this mobo just really hosed?

Googled for awhile to no avail.  Did find something really funny:

   http://forums.devhardware.com/archive/t-31570

The guy asks:

   Can anyone tell me how to find out if my games are using the onboard
   graphics instead of the video card?

What a question!

Anyhow, the onboard video I've seen have tiny conductors that go from the
physical port to the motherboard.  It should be possible to jury rig
something to latch on to them, at least for as long as to set one bios
parameter.

If not, this would be a great application for a BIOS savior if you can find
someone with the same motherboard.  I even recall reading about places that
will sell you a BIOS savior with a preloaded BIOS on it.  Always wanted to
play around with one myself.

Also, just in case the computer comes with PCI video as a default, did you
try resetting BIOS?  Prolly doesn't, but you never know.

Here, someone asks the same question:

   http://www.experts-exchange.com/Hardware/Q_21195287.html

Unfortunately, you have to "sign up" to see the solution, and from what I've
seen, experts-exchange is mostly populated by schmucks.

Also, I thought someone had asked this exact question on vox-tech a couple
of years ago.   Was it Henry House?  Could be wrong.

On the bright side, non-performance mobos are insanely cheap.  I bet you can
pick up one up for half of what you quoted: $30.  Maybe $40.

None of this stuff will probably help.  Just thinking out loud.

Pete


-- 
The mathematics of physics has become ever more abstract, rather than more
complicated.  The mind of God appears to be abstract but not complicated.
He also appears to like group theory.  --  Tony Zee's "Fearful Symmetry"

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[vox-tech] Phoenix BIOS Blind Video Switch

[Jeff Newmiller]

Friend of mine gave up on this P4 2.6Ghz computer, seems a waste though.  
His wife got frustrated one day trying to move the computer and broke the
onboard video connector (yes, those are screws on the side of that
connector)... it is pretty smashed. I took out their hard disk and put it
into another of their computers, and they gave me the rest of the cpu box.  
I may end up buying a $60 mobo, but wouldn't mind running it headless if I
could throw a $10 video card into it to set up the machine with.  The
problem, of course, is that the mobo doesn't have an internal video
override jumper... you have to use the Pheonix BIOS to switch to "Primary
video = PCI".  I've tried to do this blind with an old PCI video card
plugged in, but it isn't working and of course I can't figure out why.  
The keyboard lights blink at the appropriate times, so I am changing
something.

Anyone have any ideas, or is this mobo just really hosed?

---
Jeff NewmillerThe .   .  Go Live...
DCN:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Basics: ##.#.   ##.#.  Live Go...
  Live:   OO#.. Dead: OO#..  Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/BatteriesO.O#.   #.O#.  with
/Software/Embedded Controllers)   .OO#.   .OO#.  rocks...1k
---

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