iphoto

[tikanos]

Am new to iphoto and osx, am trying to do the simplest funcions, 
like burn to a cd and couldn't put the disk in but the pictures 
could not be moved to the disk cause they were not active. also, 
my kid was trying to make greeting cards, can you input text (for 
the inside of the card) and maybe some clip art and then print it 
out.? Sorry for these elemental questions. 

Thanks

MacFixIt note on HP

[Michael Hawkins]

For those interested in (or bedevilled by) the problems with some HP
products on Mac computers, there is an informative note and four suggested
fixes at


There is no work around.

The Apple script called "DealWithHP" has worked for me for the past two
days.

Regards,

Michael Hawkins.

Re: Digest Number 1103

[Michael Hawkins]

If we have, London to a brick it won't be long before the content of the
cartridge supplied with the printer will get smaller.

To anyone contemplating buying a HP, make sure by trying it out rather than
taking HP's word for it, that the printer does work with your Mac. There are
problems that have arisen since the release of OS 10.2.2 that take a little
time to emerge but which can cause overall speed of Macs to slow to a creep
(a crawl is fast by comparison), depending on the type of HP printer
connected to the Mac. HP has recommended that anyone with that problem
downgrade to OS 10.2.1.


Michael Hawkins.

> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 15:31:52 +0800
> From: Shay Telfer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: re Harvey Norman HP Printer
> 
>> I don't wish to preempt next week's mailer but you may see a HP Mac
>> compatible inkjet printer for $69 including USB cable!
> 
> Does that mean we have reached the point where it's cheaper to throw
> out the printer and buy a new one than to replace the ink cartridges?
> 

Re: re Harvey Norman HP Printer

[john m]

I raised this very issue, last year, with the ACCC. I mentioned that the 
price of the ink in ink-cartridges works out to at least $900.00 per 
litre*, and I suggested that the manufacturers of printers are colluding 
in fixing the price of ink-cartridges at artificially high levels. The 
response I got was that the various manufacturers are entitled to charge 
what they please. Notwithstanding, it might be worth raising a petition.

* Calculated by measuring the volume (only 50ml, even excluding the 
sponge filling) of the "black" ink-cartridge for an Epson 760 printer, 
at $45.00 per cartridge.

john.m

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do 
nothing." Edmund Burke


John Currie wrote:

>>>I don't wish to preempt next week's mailer but you may see a HP Mac
>>>compatible inkjet printer for $69 including USB cable!
>>>
>>Does that mean we have reached the point where it's cheaper to throw
>>out the printer and buy a new one than to replace the ink cartridges?
>>
>>Have fun,
>>Shay
>>
>
>Yes we have reached that point and I wonder whether something can be done
>about it via the ACC Professor Fels etc
>I think I would be safe in saying that inkjet cartridges are the only
>items associated with the computer industry which have actually increased
>in price in recent years.
>
>Anyone want to start a petition
>
>John
>
>
>
>-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
>Archives - 
>Guidelines - 
>Unsubscribe -  
>
>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: re Harvey Norman HP Printer

[John Currie]

>>I don't wish to preempt next week's mailer but you may see a HP Mac
>>compatible inkjet printer for $69 including USB cable!
>
>Does that mean we have reached the point where it's cheaper to throw
>out the printer and buy a new one than to replace the ink cartridges?
>
>Have fun,
>Shay

Yes we have reached that point and I wonder whether something can be done
about it via the ACC Professor Fels etc
I think I would be safe in saying that inkjet cartridges are the only
items associated with the computer industry which have actually increased
in price in recent years.

Anyone want to start a petition

John

Re: HP Printer CHEAP at Harvey Norman!

[Erik Hecht]

Sorry I should also mention that OS 9 drivers are also included in the 
box.




On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 12:44 PM, Erik Hecht wrote:


Hi Bob and All,
I have it up and working in OS X Jaguar. It comes with drivers for 
pre 10.1 OS X but if you are using 10.1 or 10.2 you need to get the 
updated drivers from the HP website. Easy.






On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 10:04 AM, Bob Howells wrote:


Thank you Erik !

You omitted to say that you have it up and working in what MacOS ?

Bob

Erik Hecht wrote:


Hi All,
Just picked up an HP Deskjet 3420 at Harvey Norman in Osbourne 
Park
for $79 . Anyone looking for a cheap, good quality printer might 
wanna

check this out : )
Erik

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Re: HP Printer CHEAP at Harvey Norman!

[Erik Hecht]

Hi Bob and All,
I have it up and working in OS X Jaguar. It comes with drivers for 
pre 10.1 OS X but if you are using 10.1 or 10.2 you need to get the 
updated drivers from the HP website. Easy.






On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 10:04 AM, Bob Howells wrote:


Thank you Erik !

You omitted to say that you have it up and working in what MacOS ?

Bob

Erik Hecht wrote:


Hi All,
Just picked up an HP Deskjet 3420 at Harvey Norman in Osbourne Park
for $79 . Anyone looking for a cheap, good quality printer might 
wanna

check this out : )
Erik

-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
Archives - 
Guidelines - 
Unsubscribe - 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
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-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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Guidelines - 
Unsubscribe - 

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
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Re: re Harvey Norman HP Printer

[Shay Telfer]

I don't wish to preempt next week's mailer but you may see a HP Mac
compatible inkjet printer for $69 including USB cable!


Does that mean we have reached the point where it's cheaper to throw 
out the printer and buy a new one than to replace the ink cartridges?


Have fun,
Shay
--
=== Shay Telfer 
Perth, Western Australia Technomancer It must be bunnies!
Opinions for hire [POQ]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] fnord

Re: Universal Remote for Newton

[Shay Telfer]

Rumour has it that a product called "Universal Remote for Newton" or something
similar used to exist. Anyone know more? :)


Who knows? Google knows :)



Craig Richmond (a local) also wrote Sony Remote (but that only does Sony gear)

Have fun,
Shay
--
=== Shay Telfer 
Perth, Western Australia Technomancer It must be bunnies!
Opinions for hire [POQ]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] fnord

Re: powerbook to mobile phone connection

[Keith Palmer, Zytech]

Well the group is a good start but this should have been -
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/isyncpublicbeta.html


and you can download iSync
at -
wamug@wamug.org.au

On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 01:14 PM, Chris Burton wrote:

Hi All
I have just returned from a field trip with a few colleagues, all of
whom had PC laptops for their work (I was the only one with a mac).
They also had connection to their mobiles, one with a serial / usb
adapter and the other using bluetooth. This is really new to me, but
I was impressed as we were working from a very old house with no
phone connections, or anything else for that matter!


Keith Palmer
Zytech Marketing Pty Ltd
PO Box 342 Bunbury 6231
Phone: 0419927101 Fax: 0897915900
the online data storage & technology store -
http://www.zytech.com.au/

Get FREE business cards at -
http://www.zytech.com.au/contact.html

BBQ

[Malcolm McCallum]

I have just picked up the meat and snaggers - FOR HEAVEN'S 
SAKE,PLEASE DO NOT LEAVE YOUR APETITES BEHIND ON SUNDAY :--)

MAC

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Merry Christmas & Happy New Year

[J Philippe Chaperon]

Dear Wamugians,

Wishing you all a safe and pleasant Christmas and may the New Year bring you
lots of joy (and also a new Mac or two?).

I also want to thank the WAMUG committee for a job well done and to all the
regular contributors to the list who have provided us, mere ignoramus, the
solutions to our problems. I can but reiterate what so many have said
before, and no doubt will keep repeating, the WAMUG list is turning out to
be a Macintosh encyclopedia.

I am sorry I will not be able to intermingle with the members this coming
Sunday, but wish you have a great time at the Kings Park barbecue.

See you all in February 2003!

J Philippe Chaperon

 
"History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have
exhausted all other alternatives"
Abba Eban (1915-2002)
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: re Harvey Norman HP Printer

[Keith Palmer, Zytech]

I don't wish to preempt next week's mailer but you may see a HP Mac 
compatible inkjet printer for $69 including USB cable!


On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 11:44 AM, KEVIN Lock wrote:


I just purchased one @$79.00. There begins the problem. I am
running 8.6 on the iMac I want to hook it up to and it requires at
least OS9. It also comes sans cable...another $20.00


Keith Palmer
Zytech Marketing Pty Ltd
PO Box 342 Bunbury 6231
Phone: 0419927101 Fax: 0897915900
the online data storage & technology store -
http://www.zytech.com.au/

Get FREE business cards at -
http://www.zytech.com.au/contact.html

Re: powerbook to mobile phone connection

[Shay Telfer]

Im assuming this is possible with mac hardware (Im using a Pismo
G3/500 OS 9.2.2) but I would not have a clue where to start, except
for the fact that I need to update my 3 year old Motorola bat phone!


Yes. Get a Bluetooth capable phone and a bluetooth USB adapter for 
the Mac. Much nicer than cables or infrared (I find it difficult to 
keep the IR aligned during transmission, but that's usually because 
I'm not in a stable location when I'm connecting :), although cables 
are a cheaper solution... until you change phones again.


Have fun,
Shay
--
=== Shay Telfer 
Perth, Western Australia Technomancer It must be bunnies!
Opinions for hire [POQ]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] fnord

Re: powerbook to mobile phone connection

[Keith Palmer, Zytech]

For starters you are best off with a Sony Ericsson phone as you can use 
Bluetooth and iSync almost seemlessly. There are lots of OS X apps for 
the SE phones as well.

You'll also need a Bluetooth adapter - $85 - and you can download iSync 
at -
wamug@wamug.org.au

On Friday, December 6, 2002, at 01:14 PM, Chris Burton wrote:
> Hi All
> I have just returned from a field trip with a few colleagues, all of
> whom had PC laptops for their work (I was the only one with a mac).
> They also had connection to their mobiles, one with a serial / usb
> adapter and the other using bluetooth. This is really new to me, but
> I was impressed as we were working from a very old house with no
> phone connections, or anything else for that matter!

Keith Palmer
Zytech Marketing Pty Ltd
PO Box 342 Bunbury 6231
Phone: 0419927101 Fax: 0897915900
the online data storage & technology store -
http://www.zytech.com.au/

Get FREE business cards at -
http://www.zytech.com.au/contact.html


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OSX Installation [Scanned]

[Gaff, Warwick]

Hi WAMUG users



I have just bought OSX 10.2 and I am wondering: do I have to install OS9
before OSX? I never liked OS9 and would prefer not to use it...



I not looking at running any older type software for my Mac... OfficeX
mainly.



Regards and merry Xmas to all...



Warwick Gaff
IT Technician



Trinity College

Trinity Avenue, East Perth



ph: +61 (08) 93253655 ext: 161

fx: +61 (08) 92214352

mb: +61 0415 638 104

A/H Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

powerbook to mobile phone connection

[Chris Burton]

Hi All

I have just returned from a field trip with a few colleagues, all of 
whom had PC laptops for their work (I was the only one with a mac). 
They also had connection to their mobiles, one with a serial / usb 
adapter and the other using bluetooth. This is really new to me, but 
I was impressed as we were working from a very old house with no 
phone connections, or anything else for that matter!


Im assuming this is possible with mac hardware (Im using a Pismo 
G3/500 OS 9.2.2) but I would not have a clue where to start, except 
for the fact that I need to update my 3 year old Motorola bat phone!


I would appreciate any advice on this from anyone

kind regards and thanks for any help here

chris

PS they were all extremely impressed when I connected the digital 
sony video with firewire and downloaded straight into imovie... What, 
you can just do that!?? No extra video cards or software!??

Yup, thats right
--

Re: DVD writer?

[Shay Telfer]

Hi all,

I want to buy a DVD/CD writer ASAP. Does anyone have any
suggestions/experiences with particular models?


I've had no problems with my Pioneer AO4 so far (it's what Apple used 
in their machines for a while). And the A04's been superseded by the 
A05, so the prices have dropped a bit :)


Have fun,
Shay
--
=== Shay Telfer 
Perth, Western Australia Technomancer It must be bunnies!
Opinions for hire [POQ]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] fnord

DVD writer?

[Andrew Schox]

Hi all,

I want to buy a DVD/CD writer ASAP. Does anyone have any
suggestions/experiences with particular models?

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: re Harvey Norman HP Printer

[Gary Roberts]

Apparently OS 9 can still be purchased through the Apple Store.



Regards,

Gary Roberts
Desktop Applications
Tel: 08 9322 6789
Fax: 08 9322 6770

Join the Digital Village at www.desktopapplications.com.au

**
Disclaimer
The opinions expressed in this e-mail are solely my own and should not be 
interpreted as representing the views of Desktop Applications etc etc.

**



From: KEVIN Lock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: re Harvey Norman HP Printer
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 11:44:35 +0800

I just purchased one @$79.00. There begins the problem. I am
running 8.6 on the iMac I want to hook it up to and it requires at
least OS9. It also comes sans cable...another $20.00.

It is still a deal though and I now have to figure a cheap way of
upgrading the system from 8.6 to OS9.

Any ideas?

TIA

Kevin

-- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
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_
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

re Harvey Norman HP Printer

[KEVIN Lock]

I just purchased one @$79.00. There begins the problem. I am 
running 8.6 on the iMac I want to hook it up to and it requires at 
least OS9. It also comes sans cable...another $20.00.


It is still a deal though and I now have to figure a cheap way of 
upgrading the system from 8.6 to OS9.


Any ideas?

TIA

Kevin

Big Thanks Re: Mac-centric web developers?

[Toby Oldham]

Hi all, just hi-jacking this email to thank the deluge of people who
responded with suggestions and/or smart-arse remarks ;-)

'was concerned I was going to have to search over East for a solution.
Ta Everyone! :D

Tobes.


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Meg Travers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> egads...thanks everyone for the vote of confidence :-)
> 
> Unfortunately, after changing ISP, that ain't my email address any 
> more...
> 
> This one is my work one, and I'll email Toby off list.
> 
> Thanks again all!!
> 
> Cheers,
> Meg
> 

Re: Why is this?

[Toby Oldham]

I don't have a informed explanation, but I figure it has something to
do with Distillers 'lowest common' PDF file version versus OS X's.

Distiller can generate PDF files using the 1.2 spec (Acrobat reader 3
friendly), while OS X defaults to the 1.3 spec (Acrobat 4+ Friendly).
All the OS X versions of Adobe products seem to use the 1.3 spec
(InDesign, Illustrator ... not sure aabout Photoshop).

So ... perhaps there's some sort of conflict around the 1.2 spec of
the PDF file type in OS X? Anyone want to laugh me off the WAMUG list? ;-)

Cheers,

Tobes.


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Severin Crisp <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have Adobe Acrobat 5.0.5 which appears to run OSX native, and the 
> manual says it is, yet Distiller, an essential tool runs only in 
> Classic. This seems most unAdobelike.
> Any comments?
> Severin Crisp
> -- 
> __
> Assoc Professor R Severin Crisp, FIP, CPhys, FAIP
> 
> 15 Thomas St, Mount Clarence, Albany, 6330, Western Australia.
> Phone (08) 9842 1950 (Int'l +61 8 9842 1950)
> Fax (08) 9842 9650 (Int'l +61 8 9842 9650)
> email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Web pages http://www.albanyis.com.au/~sev/
> __

Why is this?

[Severin Crisp]

I have Adobe Acrobat 5.0.5 which appears to run OSX native, and the 
manual says it is, yet Distiller, an essential tool runs only in 
Classic. This seems most unAdobelike.

Any comments?
Severin Crisp
--
__
Assoc Professor R Severin Crisp, FIP, CPhys, FAIP

15 Thomas St, Mount Clarence, Albany, 6330, Western Australia.
Phone (08) 9842 1950 (Int'l +61 8 9842 1950)
Fax (08) 9842 9650 (Int'l +61 8 9842 9650)
email mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web pages http://www.albanyis.com.au/~sev/
__

addendum: VCD vs DVD (was: Re: Problems with toast 5 on Mac OSX)

[Martin Hill]

Sorry, I accidentally indicated SVCDs could be up to 77 minutes in 
length. In actual fact, the "official" max for SVCD is 37 minutes, 
so you'd need 3 SVCDs for a 2hr movie.

VCDs max out at 74 minutes per CD.
DVDs can go right up to 480 minutes (240 minutes per side) for a 
dual-layer, double-sided disc. (Apple's iDVD is limited to a max of 
90 minutes on one side to allow for fast encoding).


-Mart




At 11:56 PM +0800 5/12/02, Shay Telfer wrote:

At 6:02 AM + 5/12/02, Dean wrote:



snip<


>- that the best method for showing them is to burn them to CD to 
create VCD's

as putting them on DVD would not improve the image quailty


However, putting on VCD will DEGRADE the quality. You can only just 
get VHS quality out of the standard if you are lucky as VCDs use 
MPEG-1 compression which is limited to 352 x 288 resolution (PAL) and 
150Kbps.


(Super Video CDs or SVCDs use MPEG-2 and can fit from between 55 
minutes to 77 minutes of video but are not as compatible and take 
ages to compress and also are usually restricted to the same low 352 
x 288 resolution)


You will get higher resolution (720 x 576 for PAL) and better quality 
than VCD by going the DVD route and at least be able to preserve 
close to the quality you have on your Compact-VHS tapes. (if you had 
higher quality originals of course, the resultant DVDs would be that 
much higher quality as well)



>and would be quite costly.

Not particularly costly ($7 per DVD at Jaycar albeit here in Perth :).


Actually, you can get DVD-R discs for $3.50 each from: 
http://www.salesmart.com.au/dvdrw/ which is run by a guy called Colin 
Stanley in City Beach apparently.



It really depends on who your audience is. If they've got
hardware and software to play VCD's then they may be a good choice,
otherwise the DVD player may be a safer bet (there's only one Mac OS
X VCD player that I know of and it's shareware).


I'd agree - go DVD as you also get interactive menus etc. and you've 
already got the hardware and software to create and burn them.



You really can't ever improve image quality, you can only take great
pains to preserve it. Every time you modify an image by distorting it
or recompressing it you lose quality.


I have also been told that the super drive or any on board software
will not let
me burn to CD to create VCD's. I was told to find some other software to do
that.


I believe Toast 5 has a VCD option.


yes Toast 5 does and when installed adds an "Export to Video-CD" 
option to iMovie.



>Someone has mentioned that perhaps it can be done through Quicktime or

through Toast. I don't know enough about Quicktime and am totally in the
dark as to if it can or can't. If it can, I would appreciate you
letting me know if
Quicktime can do it?


VCD's use MPEG 2 compression, which under QuickTime would require
licensing the MPEG 2 codec for about $34 if I remember correctly.
Alternatively you could find a free 3rd party encoder out there on
the net somewhere.


As I mention above, only Super VCDs (SVCD) use, MPEG-2. The older 
VCD standard uses MPEG-1.


There are some add-ons to Quicktime that will export MPEG-1 (or even 
MPEG-2) if you really want to do the VCD thing and don't want to buy 
Toast 5:


ffmpegX: http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=15473&db=mac (freeware)
Movie2MPEG: 
http://www.site.uottawa.ca/~jgenest/DaffySoft/Movie2MPEG/Movie2MPEG.html 
(beta)

MegaPEG: http://www.digigami.com/ (commercial)

However, as I say, my recommendation would be to go with iDVD burning 
DVDs. Much better all round.


-Mart
--
-
Martin Hill mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Multimedia Consultant Home Page: http://mart.curtin.edu.au
Educational & Online Technologies, Information Services, Curtin University 
Mobile: 0417-967-969 wk: (08)9266-3101 Fax: (08)9266-3826

VCD vs DVD (was: Re: Problems with toast 5 on Mac OSX)

[Martin Hill]

At 11:56 PM +0800 5/12/02, Shay Telfer wrote:

At 6:02 AM + 5/12/02, Dean wrote:



snip<


>- that the best method for showing them is to burn them to CD to 
create VCD's

as putting them on DVD would not improve the image quailty


However, putting on VCD will DEGRADE the quality. You can only just 
get VHS quality out of the standard if you are lucky as VCDs use 
MPEG-1 compression which is limited to 352 x 288 resolution (PAL) and 
150Kbps.


(Super Video CDs or SVCDs use MPEG-2 and can fit from between 55 
minutes to 77 minutes of video but are not as compatible and take 
ages to compress and also are usually restricted to the same low 352 
x 288 resolution)


You will get higher resolution (720 x 576 for PAL) and better quality 
than VCD by going the DVD route and at least be able to preserve 
close to the quality you have on your Compact-VHS tapes. (if you had 
higher quality originals of course, the resultant DVDs would be that 
much higher quality as well)



>and would be quite costly.

Not particularly costly ($7 per DVD at Jaycar albeit here in Perth :).


Actually, you can get DVD-R discs for $3.50 each from: 
http://www.salesmart.com.au/dvdrw/ which is run by a guy called Colin 
Stanley in City Beach apparently.



It really depends on who your audience is. If they've got
hardware and software to play VCD's then they may be a good choice,
otherwise the DVD player may be a safer bet (there's only one Mac OS
X VCD player that I know of and it's shareware).


I'd agree - go DVD as you also get interactive menus etc. and you've 
already got the hardware and software to create and burn them.



You really can't ever improve image quality, you can only take great
pains to preserve it. Every time you modify an image by distorting it
or recompressing it you lose quality.


I have also been told that the super drive or any on board software
will not let
me burn to CD to create VCD's. I was told to find some other software to do
that.


I believe Toast 5 has a VCD option.


yes Toast 5 does and when installed adds an "Export to Video-CD" 
option to iMovie.



>Someone has mentioned that perhaps it can be done through Quicktime or

through Toast. I don't know enough about Quicktime and am totally in the
dark as to if it can or can't. If it can, I would appreciate you
letting me know if
Quicktime can do it?


VCD's use MPEG 2 compression, which under QuickTime would require
licensing the MPEG 2 codec for about $34 if I remember correctly.
Alternatively you could find a free 3rd party encoder out there on
the net somewhere.


As I mention above, only Super VCDs (SVCD) use, MPEG-2. The older 
VCD standard uses MPEG-1.


There are some add-ons to Quicktime that will export MPEG-1 (or even 
MPEG-2) if you really want to do the VCD thing:


ffmpegX: http://www.versiontracker.com/moreinfo.fcgi?id=15473&db=mac (freeware)
Movie2MPEG: 
http://www.site.uottawa.ca/~jgenest/DaffySoft/Movie2MPEG/Movie2MPEG.html 
(beta)

MegaPEG: http://www.digigami.com/ (commercial)

However, as I say, my recommendation would be to go with iDVD burning 
DVDs. Much better all round.


-Mart
--
-
Martin Hill mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Multimedia Consultant Home Page: http://mart.curtin.edu.au
Educational & Online Technologies, Information Services, Curtin University 
Mobile: 0417-967-969 wk: (08)9266-3101 Fax: (08)9266-3826

Re: HP Printer CHEAP at Harvey Norman!

[Bob Howells]

Thank you Erik !

You omitted to say that you have it up and working in what MacOS ?

Bob

Erik Hecht wrote:

> Hi All,
> Just picked up an HP Deskjet 3420 at Harvey Norman in Osbourne Park
> for $79 . Anyone looking for a cheap, good quality printer might wanna
> check this out : )
> Erik
>
> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List --
> Archives - 
> Guidelines - 
> Unsubscribe - 
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/