Re: Food for thought

[Bill Parker]

Phillipe I can  sum it up this way.  I want stuff that works when I need it.  
The comparison with Windows still has Mac in a different league and vastly 
superior.   However, the way things are going, I get limited or no value from 
the constant upgrades.  And as you may have seen in the recent past I had to 
open a document in Pages.  I had to upgrade the system.  the very LEADT Apple 
could do is alert users to some very simples to take before you download ( 
thanks Ronni for the help!)

What stuff do I need?   Office ( because I need to keep compatible with group I 
work with).  Word for Mac 2011 was assuredly worse that it predessor.  And 
Power point.  if going to El Capitan wrecks that critical operation I an 
stuffed.

Security?   I do not use iCloud.  I do not use anything Google and do not need 
to.  I have a Time machine sitting next to me, not in California!

Bill

> On 10 Oct 2015, at 00:46, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
> 
> The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not grasp 
> what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it the 
> Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the 
> amount of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the 
> problem?
> 
> For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit for 
> a price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are fairly 
> basic e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have problems in 
> constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted etc. Although I 
> have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with Mellel, a powerful 
> application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a quick and short 
> document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 
> 
> With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing 
> world is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition 
> from Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest 
> technologies it will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car 
> industry. A current car manufacturer who dares produce a car without electric 
> windows and/or an electric starter motor, side valves operated by push rods 
> etc would not survive the highly competitive modern car market. The current 
> consumers, in the majority, are looking for the very latest in technology for 
> safety and economy and will not hesitate to swap brands if this requirement 
> is not met by the car or computer or camera etc manufacturer.
> 
> Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
> convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
> provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
> will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf the 
> net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ browsers 
> would not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology. 
> 
> I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we 
> Mac users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS 
> have go through with each major update. Having used Apple products since the 
> IIc came out I am surprised at how consistent the OS has been, from the 
> user’s end. But I have to add that I am not a heavy user and admit that I 
> possibly use only 2% or so of the OS available functions.
> 
> By the way Allen, I also use Snow Leopard on my now ancient MacBook, and this 
> will have to stay as is because I doubt the hardware will cope with the 
> latest OS. 
> 
> Have a nice weekend all and sorry for my rant!
> 
> Kind regards, 
> 
> Philippe C
> Perth, Australie Occidentale 
> 
> 
> On 9 Oct 2015, at 11:02 am, Allen  wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter
> 
> I think you are being a little hard on those still running Snow Leoard. I use 
> a MacBook Pro bought in 2006. It functions well and does all I need including 
> banking and photos but it cannot run OS10.7 or later. To do that I have to 
> buy a new one.
> 
> Behind me there is an iMac running OS10.10.5 which my wife mainly uses but is 
> full of stuff we don't want, don't use and we don't know what most of it is. 
> Carolyn curses as each upgrade changes things that we were fairly happy with 
> before, especially iPhoto now Photos. So I think I agree with Bill Parker 
> about "being fit for usage" as our iMac is loaded with stuff we will never 
> use but it still gets backed up many times a day
> 
> Wouldn't be nice to have a basic OS that you could add to as needed
> 
> Regards  Allen
> 
> On 08/10/2015, at 9:55 AM, Bill Parker wrote:
> 
>> Peter,
>> I come from a point of view of “being fit for usage”  and conclude that 
>> neither the Mac as is with El Kapitan and the Windows 10 on the dark are 
>> thoroughly fit for purpose.   If we saw vacuum cleaners in the same light, 
>> things 

Re: Food for thought

[Philippe Chaperon]

Hi Bill and others,

I was not criticising your point of view or your current situation and 
sincerely apologise if my email gave this impression. I do understand what you 
are experiencing having for years had to juggle between the Windows and Mac 
platforms mainly because of work.

I guess that my conclusion is that we, consumers, are caught in this 
technological world where constant development is essential for survival. I saw 
this when the Android operating system came on the market and both MS and Apple 
had to push development even further, resulting in that very same situation you 
mentioned.

Enough said from me, and again please accept my most sincere apologies for any 
offence
 or upset my email may have caused you and the WAMUG community.

Best regards,

Philippe Chaperon
Perth, Australie Occidentale
Envoyé de mon  iPad


> Le 10 Oct 2015 à 7:18 AM, Bill Parker  a écrit :
> 
> Phillipe I can  sum it up this way.  I want stuff that works when I need it.  
> The comparison with Windows still has Mac in a different league and vastly 
> superior.   However, the way things are going, I get limited or no value from 
> the constant upgrades.  And as you may have seen in the recent past I had to 
> open a document in Pages.  I had to upgrade the system.  the very LEADT Apple 
> could do is alert users to some very simples to take before you download ( 
> thanks Ronni for the help!)
> 
> What stuff do I need?   Office ( because I need to keep compatible with group 
> I work with).  Word for Mac 2011 was assuredly worse that it predessor.  And 
> Power point.  if going to El Capitan wrecks that critical operation I an 
> stuffed.
> 
> Security?   I do not use iCloud.  I do not use anything Google and do not 
> need to.  I have a Time machine sitting next to me, not in California!
> 
> Bill
> 
>> On 10 Oct 2015, at 00:46, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All, 
>> 
>> The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not 
>> grasp what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it 
>> the Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the 
>> amount of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the 
>> problem?
>> 
>> For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit 
>> for a price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are 
>> fairly basic e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have 
>> problems in constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted 
>> etc. Although I have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with 
>> Mellel, a powerful application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a 
>> quick and short document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 
>> 
>> With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing 
>> world is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition 
>> from Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest 
>> technologies it will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car 
>> industry. A current car manufacturer who dares produce a car without 
>> electric windows and/or an electric starter motor, side valves operated by 
>> push rods etc would not survive the highly competitive modern car market. 
>> The current consumers, in the majority, are looking for the very latest in 
>> technology for safety and economy and will not hesitate to swap brands if 
>> this requirement is not met by the car or computer or camera etc 
>> manufacturer.
>> 
>> Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
>> convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
>> provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
>> will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf 
>> the net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ 
>> browsers would not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology. 
>> 
>> I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we 
>> Mac users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS 
>> have go through with each major update. Having used Apple products since the 
>> IIc came out I am surprised at how consistent the OS has been, from the 
>> user’s end. But I have to add that I am not a heavy user and admit that I 
>> possibly use only 2% or so of the OS available functions.
>> 
>> By the way Allen, I also use Snow Leopard on my now ancient MacBook, and 
>> this will have to stay as is because I doubt the hardware will cope with the 
>> latest OS. 
>> 
>> Have a nice weekend all and sorry for my rant!
>> 
>> Kind regards, 
>> 
>> Philippe C
>> Perth, Australie Occidentale 
>> 
>> 
>> On 9 Oct 2015, at 11:02 am, Allen  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Peter
>> 
>> I think you are being a little hard on those still running Snow Leoard. I 
>> 

Re: Food for thought

[Philippe Chaperon]

Hi All, 

The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not grasp 
what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it the 
Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the amount 
of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the problem?

For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit for a 
price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are fairly basic 
e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have problems in 
constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted etc. Although I 
have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with Mellel, a powerful 
application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a quick and short 
document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 

With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing world 
is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition from 
Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest technologies it 
will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car industry. A current 
car manufacturer who dares produce a car without electric windows and/or an 
electric starter motor, side valves operated by push rods etc would not survive 
the highly competitive modern car market. The current consumers, in the 
majority, are looking for the very latest in technology for safety and economy 
and will not hesitate to swap brands if this requirement is not met by the car 
or computer or camera etc manufacturer.

Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf the 
net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ browsers would 
not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology. 

I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we Mac 
users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS have 
go through with each major update. Having used Apple products since the IIc 
came out I am surprised at how consistent the OS has been, from the user’s end. 
But I have to add that I am not a heavy user and admit that I possibly use only 
2% or so of the OS available functions.

By the way Allen, I also use Snow Leopard on my now ancient MacBook, and this 
will have to stay as is because I doubt the hardware will cope with the latest 
OS. 

Have a nice weekend all and sorry for my rant!

Kind regards, 

Philippe C
Perth, Australie Occidentale 


On 9 Oct 2015, at 11:02 am, Allen  wrote:

Hi Peter

I think you are being a little hard on those still running Snow Leoard. I use a 
MacBook Pro bought in 2006. It functions well and does all I need including 
banking and photos but it cannot run OS10.7 or later. To do that I have to buy 
a new one.

Behind me there is an iMac running OS10.10.5 which my wife mainly uses but is 
full of stuff we don't want, don't use and we don't know what most of it is. 
Carolyn curses as each upgrade changes things that we were fairly happy with 
before, especially iPhoto now Photos. So I think I agree with Bill Parker about 
"being fit for usage" as our iMac is loaded with stuff we will never use but it 
still gets backed up many times a day

Wouldn't be nice to have a basic OS that you could add to as needed

Regards  Allen

On 08/10/2015, at 9:55 AM, Bill Parker wrote:

> Peter,
> I come from a point of view of “being fit for usage”  and conclude that 
> neither the Mac as is with El Kapitan and the Windows 10 on the dark are 
> thoroughly fit for purpose.   If we saw vacuum cleaners in the same light, 
> things would get fixed!   And I have reached the point where I am getting 
> more and more reluctant to grab the next upgrade as soon as it hits the 
> street.
> 
> There is no answer i know - but hey would it not be useful if somebody at 
> Apple asked what the users actually wanted???   e.g. Windows 7 is not easy.   
> Microsoft Office has not been “improved” since version some years back, and 
> for something that most only use the tip of the iceberg,  Word and Powerpoint 
> could be made available in cut down basic forms. The power point crashing 
> with El Kapitan is getting many people angry.
> 
> 
> Bill
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8 Oct 2015, at 08:22, Peter Hinchliffe  wrote:
>> 
>> It’s a little sobering to realise that Tiger (OS X 10.4) is now 10 years 
>> old! Even the venerable Snow Leopard, which for many still has to be dragged 
>> from their cold, dead hands, is 6 years old. Tempus fugit…
>> 
>> For a brief history of Mac OS X in all its versions, have a look at
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Temmus is certainly fugitting!

Re: Food for thought

[Michael Hawkins]

Hello All,

My perception may be wrong, my imagination may be running riot, but it does 
seem to me that the battery life of my iPhone gets shorter with each new 
iteration of an OS and each new OS and more and more we're being driven to 
using iCloud. Someone justifies this on the basis get it gives increased 
security but to my simple mind data which stats on my hard drive is more secure 
than data which gets plonked onto a server in Apple knows where but I don't, 
whee security and privacy laws may be more lax than Australia's. And how can 
transmitting something over the Internet be more secure than not transmitting 
it at all?

Turning now to things on a cloud, what happens to my data if I want to abandon 
Apple and go elsewhere. Can I shift every untying that I paid for through 
iTunes (example) onto a non-Apple Compuetr? Or have I done my dough. I'm still 
searching for some of my photos.

Cheers,

Michael
(Apple since 94)


Sent from my iPhone

> On 9 Oct 2015, at 7:46 PM, Philippe Chaperon  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
> 
> The previous emails on this thread are interesting but I somehow do not grasp 
> what exactly some users are looking for with regards to the OS. Is it the 
> Operating System which is becoming too complex or powerful or is it the 
> amount of Application Softwares which come with a computer that is the 
> problem?
> 
> For those who want basic application softwares they are available, albeit for 
> a price (most are quite cheap). Some of the applications I use are fairly 
> basic e.g. for my photos I use Graphic Converter because I have problems in 
> constantly having my Photos, ex iPhotos, libraries converted etc. Although I 
> have MS Office, most of my word processing is done with Mellel, a powerful 
> application but not as ‘bloated’ as Word. In fact for a quick and short 
> document Text Edit comes to my rescue quite happily. 
> 
> With regards to the operating system itself, unfortunately the computing 
> world is constantly evolving and what with the hotly contested competition 
> from Windows and Android, if Apple does not keep up with the latest 
> technologies it will loose ground very quickly. A good analogy is the car 
> industry. A current car manufacturer who dares produce a car without electric 
> windows and/or an electric starter motor, side valves operated by push rods 
> etc would not survive the highly competitive modern car market. The current 
> consumers, in the majority, are looking for the very latest in technology for 
> safety and economy and will not hesitate to swap brands if this requirement 
> is not met by the car or computer or camera etc manufacturer.
> 
> Although the above analogy is  simplistic, this is the argument I use to 
> convince myself to install the latest OS on my Macs. The latest technology 
> provides greater efficiency, uses the latest technology, which once learned, 
> will make my life much easier. And above all the updates allow me to surf the 
> net which itself keeps evolving using new technology. Many ‘old’ browsers 
> would not be able to cope with all that latest internet technology. 
> 
> I agree that it is difficult to keep learning the new  OS, but at least we 
> Mac users have not had to suffer the pains our brothers from that ‘other’ OS 
> have go through with each major update. Having used Apple products s
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