Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Stephen Chape]

Hi folks.
Getting a little tired of the GREAT GAME EAGLES header !
You were right to point this out when was guilty Ronni.

> On 26 May 2018, at 3:56 am, Daniel Kerr  wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter
> 
> By chance was it a MacBook Pro 15”? Or a 13”?
> If it was a 2011 15” then it was more then likely the Graphics Card failed. 
> They are starting to be “common” failures on that model now unfortunately.
> 
> Kind regards
> Daniel
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 7
> 
> ---
> Daniel Kerr
> MacWizardry
> 
> Phone: 0414 795 960
> Email: 
> Web:   <http://www.macwizardry.com.au>
> 
> 
> **For everything Apple**
> 
> NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion and 
> as such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of MacWizardry. 
> Any information provided does not offer or warrant any form of warranty or 
> accept liability. It would be appreciated that if any information in this 
> email is to be disseminated, distributed or copied, that permission by the 
> author be requested. 
> 
>> On 25 May 2018, at 9:57 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there, well I tried all these things down below here and double checked 
>> my movements within the inside of the MBP and nothing disturbed I could see 
>> or looked like it shouldn’t from anything I touched. I tried booting with no 
>> RAM cards, then inserted previously used and operational RAM cards and still 
>> no change, no chime from it. 
>> 
>> So on Thursday, with fully a fully prepared written history of the recent 
>> events with it I dropped it to a local computer repair shop one I’ve used 
>> before and they’ve advised they could not resuscitate it. Likely Mother 
>> Board fault which would be expensive they say. It is a 2011 MBP after all 
>> but I’m disappointed as it was working fine prior to my son installing this 
>> third party software. I have no proof this was the cause of the fail but it 
>> is the most likely suspect. OSX is very reliable when left to itself.
>> 
>> In my final attempts to resurrect it, i thought I’d remove the fan 
>> altogether, very delicately. In doing that, which was very easy, i noticed 
>> the small air entry grille was quite plugged with fluff. I suspect this was 
>> causing the processor to run hot despite the fan running flat out, which in 
>> turn set Tim about trying to turn it down using his “special” third party 
>> software” as the fan noise annoyed him. So the root cause was probably the 
>> restricted air flow into the fan from fluff!
>> 
>> Oh well, now my challenge is to locate another machine and determine how I 
>> will migrate Tim’s backup without bringing back the SMC Fan Controller 
>> software in the process. 
>> 
>> My choices, once I have a replacement machine (with High Sierra in place), 
>> are to plug the old HDD via SATA and retrieve using Migration Assistant 
>> (where I already deleted the SMC Fan Controller) and select the data to be 
>> retrieved. Important things are Photos library, iTunes and other data but 
>> not OSX related files. Is this level of selectivity something that MA 
>> allows? Any other tips in this process?
>> 
>> Thanks for all those who chipped in with help for me in this, I really 
>> appreciate it folks.
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> 
>> Pete
>> 
>> On 22 May 2018, at 12:04 pm, Neil Houghton  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Pete,
>>> 
>>> A few more thoughts  ;o)
>>> 
>>> • OK even though the first thoughts for fans OK but nothing else 
>>> happens would tend to be a possible power supply or logic board failure – 
>>> ie a hardware problem with the MBP is looking more likely, as you say you 
>>> have not much to lose by trying a few long shots.
>>> • When things do start to go wrong/fail sometimes an initial problem is 
>>> seen then other things occur – it is easy to get anchored into trying to 
>>> troubleshoot the problem by focusing on the original problem/circumstances, 
>>> whereas there may be additional, more serious, problems that are now 
>>> present – I’m not saying that anything points to this, just to remain open 
>>> to that probability.
>>> • Having opened up the MBP to remove/change the HDD there is also the 
>>> possibility you may have disturbed something – this is obviously not the 
>>> original problem but may be hiding/hindering its solution.
>>> 
>>> So – a few very long shots:
>>> • If sound has somehow been set to mute on your MBP you may not hear 
>>> the start-up chime (well I just 

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Daniel Kerr]

d below. However, here are a few more long shots:
>>  
>> From < https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/6271/>
>>  • For me, the key was trying to start the computer with no RAM 
>> installed. After that succeeded, I went ahead and put a single RAM chip back 
>> in, and it started up.
>>  • I put in a system CD and tried booting holding down the 'C' key. 
>> Nothing happened. After a few more attempts, and thinking i was done for, I 
>> booted it, holding down the CD eject key; wanted my system CD back. Lo and 
>> behold, it booted! i have looked at many forums, but have never seen this 
>> solution. (5 more posters reported that this worked for them!)
>>  
>> And this is an old one for an iMac G5 ;o) – but the logic is not computer 
>> specific: 
>> One day, it decided not to even give me the POST chime. I took it to the 
>> Apple ‘Genious” who promptly told me I needed a new logic board at a cost of 
>> $440. I said no thanks and went home. I have been an electronics tech for 
>> many years so I wasn’t going to let this go that easily.
>>  
>> I built enough clone PC’s back in the day to see a shorted component load 
>> down the power supply and cause a seemingly unrelated component to appear 
>> dead. This time was no exception. I unplugged everything from the logic 
>> board except for the power supply and video connections and hit the power 
>> button. Sure enough, I got a chime. Began plugging things back in one at a 
>> time until I found the culprit. Turned out to be the hard drive temp sensor. 
>> A $24 part if ordered off the internet. No expensive logic board 
>> replacement, just a little temp sensor board.
>>  
>> I think I’d better give up now  ;o)
>>  
>>  
>> Cheers
>>  
>>  
>> Neil
>> -- 
>> Neil R. Houghton
>> Albany, Western Australia
>> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
>> Email: n...@possumology.com
>> From:  on behalf of Peter 
>> Crisp 
>> Reply-To: WAMUG 
>> Date: Monday, 21 May 2018 at 21:39
>> To: WAMUG 
>> Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!
>>  
>> Ok, following that test with a known prior running HDD, it is still the 
>> same, black screen and gradual fan run up to full speed.
>>  
>> I have done a SMC reset (disconnect battery per instructions etc). NVRAM 
>> reset, attempt start in Safe mode. 
>>  
>> The one thing I have noted is there is no start up chime. This chime is 
>> seemingly, from all the Apple help, a pre-requisite to forcing the different 
>> startup modes - like Safe Mode, etc. 
>>  
>> I think I am looking at another MBP or MBA. Even if I do that, I am not 
>> certain how I can migrate Tims data back into a new machine (with the SMC 
>> fan controller thing still present in the backup). I’ve used the Migration 
>> Assistant a few times but very infrequently so I can’t recall if I can 
>> selectively bring back the data knowing that will remain safe. The failed 
>> machine was a Yosemite OSX and a new machine I would go straight to High 
>> Sierra. Getting a bit ahead of myself down the Plan B road but considering 
>> this still as a likely outcome here.
>>  
>> Tonight I am leaving the MBP with AC adaptor off and the fan running away to 
>> drain the battery. A very long shot may force the SMC to think in a 
>> different way. Not many other choices nor much to loose anyway.
>> 
>> Regards
>>  
>>  
>> Pete
>> 
>> On 21 May 2018, at 7:39 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Neil and Ronni, I have run the test below to attempt the AHT and as I 
>> suspected the MBP wont even entertain it. Screen remains black and the 
>> cooling fan starts after about 15-20 seconds and slowly ramps up to full 
>> speed. It just remains with the fan running flat out and nothing else to 
>> suggest any activity going on in there. 
>>  
>> I am confident it is not a screen fault as across the weekend before it went 
>> completely black all the time, the screen was displaying quite normally. I 
>> accept that is not definitive, but my thinking is it is unlikely a screen 
>> fail when whilst it was showing HDD anomalies, the screen still displayed 
>> ok. Still without the AHT running, I don’t yet know what the fault is. 
>>  
>> I also tried the NVRAM/PRAM reset “Option/Command/P/R” concurrent with 
>> attempted start. Same response - black screen and slow fan ramp up.
>>  
>> I don’t actually have a disc that it came with for the external start up 
>> test. I do however have my CCC drive for my MBP Retina (High Sierra) and 
>>

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Peter Crisp]

ngly unrelated component to appear 
> dead. This time was no exception. I unplugged everything from the logic board 
> except for the power supply and video connections and hit the power button. 
> Sure enough, I got a chime. Began plugging things back in one at a time until 
> I found the culprit. Turned out to be the hard drive temp sensor. A $24 part 
> if ordered off the internet. No expensive logic board replacement, just a 
> little temp sensor board.
>  
> I think I’d better give up now  ;o)
>  
>  
> Cheers
>  
>  
> Neil
> --
> Neil R. Houghton
> Albany, Western Australia
> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
> Email: n...@possumology.com
> From:  on behalf of Peter 
> Crisp 
> Reply-To: WAMUG 
> Date: Monday, 21 May 2018 at 21:39
> To: WAMUG 
> Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!
>  
> Ok, following that test with a known prior running HDD, it is still the same, 
> black screen and gradual fan run up to full speed.
>  
> I have done a SMC reset (disconnect battery per instructions etc). NVRAM 
> reset, attempt start in Safe mode. 
>  
> The one thing I have noted is there is no start up chime. This chime is 
> seemingly, from all the Apple help, a pre-requisite to forcing the different 
> startup modes - like Safe Mode, etc. 
>  
> I think I am looking at another MBP or MBA. Even if I do that, I am not 
> certain how I can migrate Tims data back into a new machine (with the SMC fan 
> controller thing still present in the backup). I’ve used the Migration 
> Assistant a few times but very infrequently so I can’t recall if I can 
> selectively bring back the data knowing that will remain safe. The failed 
> machine was a Yosemite OSX and a new machine I would go straight to High 
> Sierra. Getting a bit ahead of myself down the Plan B road but considering 
> this still as a likely outcome here.
>  
> Tonight I am leaving the MBP with AC adaptor off and the fan running away to 
> drain the battery. A very long shot may force the SMC to think in a different 
> way. Not many other choices nor much to loose anyway.
> 
> Regards
>  
>  
> Pete
> 
> On 21 May 2018, at 7:39 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:
> 
> Hi Neil and Ronni, I have run the test below to attempt the AHT and as I 
> suspected the MBP wont even entertain it. Screen remains black and the 
> cooling fan starts after about 15-20 seconds and slowly ramps up to full 
> speed. It just remains with the fan running flat out and nothing else to 
> suggest any activity going on in there. 
>  
> I am confident it is not a screen fault as across the weekend before it went 
> completely black all the time, the screen was displaying quite normally. I 
> accept that is not definitive, but my thinking is it is unlikely a screen 
> fail when whilst it was showing HDD anomalies, the screen still displayed ok. 
> Still without the AHT running, I don’t yet know what the fault is. 
>  
> I also tried the NVRAM/PRAM reset “Option/Command/P/R” concurrent with 
> attempted start. Same response - black screen and slow fan ramp up.
>  
> I don’t actually have a disc that it came with for the external start up 
> test. I do however have my CCC drive for my MBP Retina (High Sierra) and 
> wonder if that could serve as a test for external boot. But even still, the 
> instructions for external drive boot requires that I get a Start up chime, 
> which I don’t get and hence I don’t think it will even enter into this mode. 
> I’ll give it a shot. No good there with that test.
>  
> I’ve had a thought, I have the removed disc that was in James’ MBP (same 
> model 2011 MBP) with a fully functioning drive in it when it was removed. I 
> will swap it into Tims MBP and see what that does to try eleminiate the 
> hardware of the laptop as being suspect or otherwise.
> 
> Regards
>  
>  
> Pete
> 
> On 21 May 2018, at 11:54 am, Neil Houghton  wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter,
>  
> Just some thoughts.
>  
> · The fact that you can mount the HD on another computer does not 
> necessarily mean that there will be no problems with it - or the system 
> installed on it – but it does suggest that the HD is not the cause of the 
> black screen/no life problem of the MBP.
> · I do not think there is any point trying to fit a new HD until you 
> have determined the hardware status of the MBP.
> · Even with no HD inside, if the MBP was OK I would expect to see it 
> attempt to start and then display a flashing “?” to indicate that it cannot 
> find a suitable OS to boot from – that is what happened with my iMac when the 
> internal drive died.
> · If the problem was just with either the HD or a corrupt system 
> installation on it, as a test you should still be able to run the M

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[petercrisp]

Thanks for that lot there Neil. I am pretty careful when doing things
inside to the extent of paranoia. Double checking connections and
generally fastidious attention to the detail of the task I'm doing -
nevertheless still being human can mean errors on my part. I will try
the 'attempt boot with no RAM' and see how that goes and then install
the spare RAM's I have aside from previous work on James' machine. 
Will revert when I get through these tests. 
I appreciate everyone's constructive comments here.
Kind Regards
Pete.

- Original Message -
From: wamug@wamug.org.au
To:"WAMUG" 
Cc:
Sent:Tue, 22 May 2018 12:04:17 +0800
Subject:Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

Hi Pete,

 

A few more thoughts  ;o)

 

* OK even though the first thoughts for fans OK but nothing else
happens would tend to be a possible power supply or logic board
failure – ie a hardware problem with the MBP is looking more likely,
as you say you have not much to lose by trying a few long shots.

* When things do start to go wrong/fail sometimes an initial problem
is seen then other things occur – it is easy to get anchored into
trying to troubleshoot the problem by focusing on the original
problem/circumstances, whereas there may be additional, more serious,
problems that are now present – I’m not saying that anything
points to this, just to remain open to that probability.

* Having opened up the MBP to remove/change the HDD there is also the
possibility you may have disturbed something – this is obviously not
the original problem but may be hiding/hindering its solution.

 

So – a few very long shots:

* If sound has somehow been set to mute on your MBP you may not hear
the start-up chime (well I just tested a restart on my El Capitan iMac
after muting and no chime there)

* Could the brightness have got set down to minimum on the MBP
(though I would still expect that you would see something).

* Could you have disturbed any lead/connector whilst in the MBP.

* Could the RAM seating have got disturbed whilst you were in the MBP

 

Googling the problem obviously brings up lots of hits as I am sure
you have found and perused. You have obviously tried all the obvious
steps, as you said below. However, here are a few more long shots:

 

>From < https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/6271/>

* For me, the key was trying to start the computer with no RAM
installed. After that succeeded, I went ahead and put a single RAM
chip back in, and it started up.

* I put in a system CD and tried booting holding down the 'C' key.
Nothing happened. After a few more attempts, and thinking i was done
for, I booted it, holding down the CD eject key; wanted my system CD
back. Lo and behold, it booted! i have looked at many forums, but have
never seen this solution. (5 more posters reported that this worked
for them!)

 

And this is an old one for an iMac G5 ;o) – but the logic is not
computer specific: 

_One day, it decided not to even give me the POST chime. I took it to
the Apple ‘Genious” who promptly told me I needed a new logic
board at a cost of $440. I said no thanks and went home. I have been
an electronics tech for many years so I wasn’t going to let this go
that easily._

__

 

_I built enough clone PC’s back in the day to see a shorted
component load down the power supply and cause a seemingly unrelated
component to appear dead. This time was no exception. I unplugged
everything from the logic board except for the power supply and video
connections and hit the power button. Sure enough, I got a chime.
Began plugging things back in one at a time until I found the culprit.
Turned out to be the hard drive temp sensor. A $24 part if ordered off
the internet. No expensive logic board replacement, just a little temp
sensor board._

__

 

I think I’d better give up now  ;o)

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Neil

-- 

Neil R. Houghton

Albany, Western Australia

Tel: +61 8 9841 6063

Email: n...@possumology.com

FROM:  on behalf of Peter Crisp 
REPLY-TO: WAMUG 
DATE: Monday, 21 May 2018 at 21:39
TO: WAMUG 
SUBJECT: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

 

Ok, following that test with a known prior running HDD, it is still
the same, black screen and gradual fan run up to full speed.

 

I have done a SMC reset (disconnect battery per instructions etc).
NVRAM reset, attempt start in Safe mode. 

 

The one thing I have noted is there is no start up chime. This chime
is seemingly, from all the Apple help, a pre-requisite to forcing the
different startup modes - like Safe Mode, etc. 

 

I think I am looking at another MBP or MBA. Even if I do tha

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Neil Houghton]

Hi Pete,

 

A few more thoughts  ;o)

 
OK even though the first thoughts for fans OK but nothing else happens would 
tend to be a possible power supply or logic board failure – ie a hardware 
problem with the MBP is looking more likely, as you say you have not much to 
lose by trying a few long shots.
When things do start to go wrong/fail sometimes an initial problem is seen then 
other things occur – it is easy to get anchored into trying to troubleshoot the 
problem by focusing on the original problem/circumstances, whereas there may be 
additional, more serious, problems that are now present – I’m not saying that 
anything points to this, just to remain open to that probability.
Having opened up the MBP to remove/change the HDD there is also the possibility 
you may have disturbed something – this is obviously not the original problem 
but may be hiding/hindering its solution.
 

So – a few very long shots:
If sound has somehow been set to mute on your MBP you may not hear the start-up 
chime (well I just tested a restart on my El Capitan iMac after muting and no 
chime there)
Could the brightness have got set down to minimum on the MBP (though I would 
still expect that you would see something).
Could you have disturbed any lead/connector whilst in the MBP.
Could the RAM seating have got disturbed whilst you were in the MBP
 

Googling the problem obviously brings up lots of hits as I am sure you have 
found and perused. You have obviously tried all the obvious steps, as you said 
below. However, here are a few more long shots:

 

>From < https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/6271/>
For me, the key was trying to start the computer with no RAM installed. After 
that succeeded, I went ahead and put a single RAM chip back in, and it started 
up.
I put in a system CD and tried booting holding down the 'C' key. Nothing 
happened. After a few more attempts, and thinking i was done for, I booted it, 
holding down the CD eject key; wanted my system CD back. Lo and behold, it 
booted! i have looked at many forums, but have never seen this solution. (5 
more posters reported that this worked for them!)
 

And this is an old one for an iMac G5 ;o) – but the logic is not computer 
specific: 

One day, it decided not to even give me the POST chime. I took it to the Apple 
‘Genious” who promptly told me I needed a new logic board at a cost of $440. I 
said no thanks and went home. I have been an electronics tech for many years so 
I wasn’t going to let this go that easily.

 

I built enough clone PC’s back in the day to see a shorted component load down 
the power supply and cause a seemingly unrelated component to appear dead. This 
time was no exception. I unplugged everything from the logic board except for 
the power supply and video connections and hit the power button. Sure enough, I 
got a chime. Began plugging things back in one at a time until I found the 
culprit. Turned out to be the hard drive temp sensor. A $24 part if ordered off 
the internet. No expensive logic board replacement, just a little temp sensor 
board.

 

I think I’d better give up now  ;o)

 

 

Cheers

 

 

Neil

-- 

Neil R. Houghton

Albany, Western Australia

Tel: +61 8 9841 6063

Email: n...@possumology.com

From:  on behalf of Peter Crisp 

Reply-To: WAMUG 
Date: Monday, 21 May 2018 at 21:39
To: WAMUG 
Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

 

Ok, following that test with a known prior running HDD, it is still the same, 
black screen and gradual fan run up to full speed.

 

I have done a SMC reset (disconnect battery per instructions etc). NVRAM reset, 
attempt start in Safe mode. 

 

The one thing I have noted is there is no start up chime. This chime is 
seemingly, from all the Apple help, a pre-requisite to forcing the different 
startup modes - like Safe Mode, etc. 

 

I think I am looking at another MBP or MBA. Even if I do that, I am not certain 
how I can migrate Tims data back into a new machine (with the SMC fan 
controller thing still present in the backup). I’ve used the Migration 
Assistant a few times but very infrequently so I can’t recall if I can 
selectively bring back the data knowing that will remain safe. The failed 
machine was a Yosemite OSX and a new machine I would go straight to High 
Sierra. Getting a bit ahead of myself down the Plan B road but considering this 
still as a likely outcome here.

 

Tonight I am leaving the MBP with AC adaptor off and the fan running away to 
drain the battery. A very long shot may force the SMC to think in a different 
way. Not many other choices nor much to loose anyway.

Regards

 

 

Pete


On 21 May 2018, at 7:39 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:

Hi Neil and Ronni, I have run the test below to attempt the AHT and as I 
suspected the MBP wont even entertain it. Screen remains black and the cooling 
fan starts after about 15-20 seconds and slowly ramps up to full speed. It just 
remains with the fan running flat out and nothing else to suggest any activity

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Alan Smith]

at that does to try eleminiate the 
>>> hardware of the laptop as being suspect or otherwise.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Pete
>>> 
>>> On 21 May 2018, at 11:54 am, Neil Houghton >> <mailto:n...@possumology.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>  
>>>> Just some thoughts.
>>>>  
>>>> The fact that you can mount the HD on another computer does not 
>>>> necessarily mean that there will be no problems with it - or the system 
>>>> installed on it – but it does suggest that the HD is not the cause of the 
>>>> black screen/no life problem of the MBP.
>>>> I do not think there is any point trying to fit a new HD until you have 
>>>> determined the hardware status of the MBP.
>>>> Even with no HD inside, if the MBP was OK I would expect to see it attempt 
>>>> to start and then display a flashing “?” to indicate that it cannot find a 
>>>> suitable OS to boot from – that is what happened with my iMac when the 
>>>> internal drive died.
>>>> If the problem was just with either the HD or a corrupt system 
>>>> installation on it, as a test you should still be able to run the MBP from 
>>>> an external HD – I continued to use my iMac from an external FW drive, 
>>>> containing a previous clone of my system, for around 2 years before I 
>>>> finally got round to repairing the iMac with a SSD and new HD.
>>>> As Ronni says, you could try and run Apple Hardware Test (AHT) – although 
>>>> the MBP will at least need a working screen.
>>>> I suppose it is possible that the MBP has a dead screen – although it 
>>>> would be a bit of a coincidence if you were having these other problems 
>>>> and then the screen died when you tried to address them – unlikely but 
>>>> coincidences DO happen. – If you have an external screen and the 
>>>> appropriate lead/adaptor you might be able to narrow the problem down to a 
>>>> failed screen (very long shot).
>>>> I suppose the residual cruft from the SMC fan controller might give some 
>>>> problems – however that would all reside on the HD so with the HD removed 
>>>> I would have thought the MBP should behave as normal if there are no 
>>>> hardware problems (well normal for a computer with no HD as discussed 
>>>> above).
>>>> After removing the HD, did you try booting from the install disk that came 
>>>> with the MBP – if there are no hardware problems I think that you should 
>>>> be able to install a bare OSX even on an external usb stick of sufficient 
>>>> size – if you can confirm the actual MBP hardware (less HD) is OK then it 
>>>> is worth persevering to upgrade.
>>>>  
>>>> As I say, just some thoughts which might help you narrow down the actual 
>>>> problem or problems.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> HTH
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> Neil
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> -- 
>>>> Neil R. Houghton
>>>> Albany, Western Australia
>>>> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
>>>> Email: n...@possumology.com <mailto:n...@possumology.com>
>>>> From: >>> <mailto:wamug.org.au-wamug-boun...@lists.wamug.org.au>> on behalf of Peter 
>>>> Crisp mailto:petercr...@westnet.com.au>>
>>>> Reply-To: WAMUG mailto:wamug@wamug.org.au>>
>>>> Date: Sunday, 20 May 2018 at 21:10
>>>> To: WAMUG mailto:wamug@wamug.org.au>>
>>>> Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!
>>>>  
>>>> Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter 
>>>> connected it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an 
>>>> externally connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the 
>>>> SMC app in the Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon 
>>>> refitting to Tim’s MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the 
>>>> problem is with the MBP chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am 
>>>> puzzled where to now. If I simply replace the HDD, with this information 
>>>> it seems unlikely that that would actually fix the problem.  <>
>>>>  
>>>> Buying a replacement MBP and restoring from the backup would be plagued by 
>>>> the SMC installation in the backup and there being no apparent way to get 
>>>> his MBP to

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Alan Smith]

>>> Even with no HD inside, if the MBP was OK I would expect to see it attempt 
>>> to start and then display a flashing “?” to indicate that it cannot find a 
>>> suitable OS to boot from – that is what happened with my iMac when the 
>>> internal drive died.
>>> If the problem was just with either the HD or a corrupt system installation 
>>> on it, as a test you should still be able to run the MBP from an external 
>>> HD – I continued to use my iMac from an external FW drive, containing a 
>>> previous clone of my system, for around 2 years before I finally got round 
>>> to repairing the iMac with a SSD and new HD.
>>> As Ronni says, you could try and run Apple Hardware Test (AHT) – although 
>>> the MBP will at least need a working screen.
>>> I suppose it is possible that the MBP has a dead screen – although it would 
>>> be a bit of a coincidence if you were having these other problems and then 
>>> the screen died when you tried to address them – unlikely but coincidences 
>>> DO happen. – If you have an external screen and the appropriate 
>>> lead/adaptor you might be able to narrow the problem down to a failed 
>>> screen (very long shot).
>>> I suppose the residual cruft from the SMC fan controller might give some 
>>> problems – however that would all reside on the HD so with the HD removed I 
>>> would have thought the MBP should behave as normal if there are no hardware 
>>> problems (well normal for a computer with no HD as discussed above).
>>> After removing the HD, did you try booting from the install disk that came 
>>> with the MBP – if there are no hardware problems I think that you should be 
>>> able to install a bare OSX even on an external usb stick of sufficient size 
>>> – if you can confirm the actual MBP hardware (less HD) is OK then it is 
>>> worth persevering to upgrade.
>>>  
>>> As I say, just some thoughts which might help you narrow down the actual 
>>> problem or problems.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> HTH
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Neil
>>>  
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> Neil R. Houghton
>>> Albany, Western Australia
>>> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
>>> Email: n...@possumology.com <mailto:n...@possumology.com>
>>> From: >> <mailto:wamug.org.au-wamug-boun...@lists.wamug.org.au>> on behalf of Peter 
>>> Crisp mailto:petercr...@westnet.com.au>>
>>> Reply-To: WAMUG mailto:wamug@wamug.org.au>>
>>> Date: Sunday, 20 May 2018 at 21:10
>>> To: WAMUG mailto:wamug@wamug.org.au>>
>>> Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!
>>>  
>>> Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter 
>>> connected it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an 
>>> externally connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the 
>>> SMC app in the Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon 
>>> refitting to Tim’s MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the 
>>> problem is with the MBP chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am 
>>> puzzled where to now. If I simply replace the HDD, with this information it 
>>> seems unlikely that that would actually fix the problem.  <>
>>>  
>>> Buying a replacement MBP and restoring from the backup would be plagued by 
>>> the SMC installation in the backup and there being no apparent way to get 
>>> his MBP to start up and be able to get into the OSX to disable the SMC fan 
>>> controller. Buying a replacement SSD for his MBP and copying over also 
>>> would not seem to be a solution given the fact it looks fine when connected 
>>> as an external disc. 
>>>  
>>> Is there some other sort of way I could assess the HDD to confirm it’s 
>>> status or even the MBP hardware as well?
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Pete
>>> 
>>> On 20 May 2018, at 7:17 pm, Peter Crisp >> <mailto:petercr...@westnet.com.au>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> HI ROnni, thanks for that, but the problem i have is that Tim’s MBP is 
>>> completely unresponsive so I cannot even get into it to disable the SMC Fan 
>>> control he installed to then create a backup with that not in place. So I 
>>> am stuck with the backup I have.  I really am unsire of the next step, I 
>>> will persevere with the current MBP now but I think I am wasting my time. 
>>> All that happens is the screen remains black 

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Peter Crisp]

 HD removed I 
>> would have thought the MBP should behave as normal if there are no hardware 
>> problems (well normal for a computer with no HD as discussed above).
>> After removing the HD, did you try booting from the install disk that came 
>> with the MBP – if there are no hardware problems I think that you should be 
>> able to install a bare OSX even on an external usb stick of sufficient size 
>> – if you can confirm the actual MBP hardware (less HD) is OK then it is 
>> worth persevering to upgrade.
>>  
>> As I say, just some thoughts which might help you narrow down the actual 
>> problem or problems.
>>  
>>  
>> HTH
>>  
>>  
>> Neil
>>  
>>  
>> --
>> Neil R. Houghton
>> Albany, Western Australia
>> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
>> Email: n...@possumology.com
>> From:  on behalf of Peter 
>> Crisp 
>> Reply-To: WAMUG 
>> Date: Sunday, 20 May 2018 at 21:10
>> To: WAMUG 
>> Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!
>>  
>> Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter 
>> connected it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an 
>> externally connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the 
>> SMC app in the Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon 
>> refitting to Tim’s MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the 
>> problem is with the MBP chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am 
>> puzzled where to now. If I simply replace the HDD, with this information it 
>> seems unlikely that that would actually fix the problem. 
>>  
>> Buying a replacement MBP and restoring from the backup would be plagued by 
>> the SMC installation in the backup and there being no apparent way to get 
>> his MBP to start up and be able to get into the OSX to disable the SMC fan 
>> controller. Buying a replacement SSD for his MBP and copying over also would 
>> not seem to be a solution given the fact it looks fine when connected as an 
>> external disc. 
>>  
>> Is there some other sort of way I could assess the HDD to confirm it’s 
>> status or even the MBP hardware as well?
>> 
>> Regards
>>  
>>  
>> Pete
>> 
>> On 20 May 2018, at 7:17 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:
>> 
>> HI ROnni, thanks for that, but the problem i have is that Tim’s MBP is 
>> completely unresponsive so I cannot even get into it to disable the SMC Fan 
>> control he installed to then create a backup with that not in place. So I am 
>> stuck with the backup I have.  I really am unsire of the next step, I will 
>> persevere with the current MBP now but I think I am wasting my time. All 
>> that happens is the screen remains black and the fan starts up, nothing to 
>> show. I think it is rooted. Maybe there is a command I can hold upon hitting 
>> the start button but I try “Shift” and “Command R” and nothing really 
>> results from it.
>> 
>> Regards
>>  
>>  
>> Pete
>> 
>> On 20 May 2018, at 6:52 pm, Ronda Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Peter,
>> I would be careful about restoring from backup until you can completely 
>> uninstall the smcFanControl then do a backup & restore from the new backup.
>>  
>> Apple and we consultants don’t recommend users to control the fan speed by 
>> any 3rd party utility, it’s better to let your Mac set the fan speed as it 
>> wants. smcFanControl is not a necessary app for your Mac.
>> It installs many files throughout the system which need to be deleted as 
>> well as the app!
>> If you think you just drag smcFanControl to the trash & think removal is 
>> complete, then you’re wrong. That won’t remove the supportive files, cache 
>> files & other associated items it created during the setup and daily usage. 
>> To thoroughly ‘Delete smcFanControl, it is necessary to delete the remaining 
>> components scattered around the system.
>>  
>> Regards,
>> Ronni
>>  
>> Sent from Ronni's iPhone 7 Plus
>> 
>> On 20 May 2018, at 5:56 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi ROnni, yes I have just got back from Gin Gin I had to collect one son 
>> from Coolup as well so lots of driving today from Mandurah.
>>  
>> I am getting you WAMUG mails from WAMUG and I also do see them at the link 
>> you sent too. Not sure what’s going on your end but it all looks ok from the 
>> ‘outside’. 
>>  
>> I’ve just got back home now so James is rerunning the second half for me but 
>> I was listening on the radio and I heard Darling was having a cracker.
>&

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Peter Crisp]

Hi Neil and Ronni, I have run the test below to attempt the AHT and as I 
suspected the MBP wont even entertain it. Screen remains black and the cooling 
fan starts after about 15-20 seconds and slowly ramps up to full speed. It just 
remains with the fan running flat out and nothing else to suggest any activity 
going on in there. 

I am confident it is not a screen fault as across the weekend before it went 
completely black all the time, the screen was displaying quite normally. I 
accept that is not definitive, but my thinking is it is unlikely a screen fail 
when whilst it was showing HDD anomalies, the screen still displayed ok. Still 
without the AHT running, I don’t yet know what the fault is. 

I also tried the NVRAM/PRAM reset “Option/Command/P/R” concurrent with 
attempted start. Same response - black screen and slow fan ramp up.

I don’t actually have a disc that it came with for the external start up test. 
I do however have my CCC drive for my MBP Retina (High Sierra) and wonder if 
that could serve as a test for external boot. But even still, the instructions 
for external drive boot requires that I get a Start up chime, which I don’t get 
and hence I don’t think it will even enter into this mode. I’ll give it a shot. 
No good there with that test.

I’ve had a thought, I have the removed disc that was in James’ MBP (same model 
2011 MBP) with a fully functioning drive in it when it was removed. I will swap 
it into Tims MBP and see what that does to try eleminiate the hardware of the 
laptop as being suspect or otherwise.

Regards


Pete

> On 21 May 2018, at 11:54 am, Neil Houghton  wrote:
> 
> Hi Peter,
>  
> Just some thoughts.
>  
> The fact that you can mount the HD on another computer does not necessarily 
> mean that there will be no problems with it - or the system installed on it – 
> but it does suggest that the HD is not the cause of the black screen/no life 
> problem of the MBP.
> I do not think there is any point trying to fit a new HD until you have 
> determined the hardware status of the MBP.
> Even with no HD inside, if the MBP was OK I would expect to see it attempt to 
> start and then display a flashing “?” to indicate that it cannot find a 
> suitable OS to boot from – that is what happened with my iMac when the 
> internal drive died.
> If the problem was just with either the HD or a corrupt system installation 
> on it, as a test you should still be able to run the MBP from an external HD 
> – I continued to use my iMac from an external FW drive, containing a previous 
> clone of my system, for around 2 years before I finally got round to 
> repairing the iMac with a SSD and new HD.
> As Ronni says, you could try and run Apple Hardware Test (AHT) – although the 
> MBP will at least need a working screen.
> I suppose it is possible that the MBP has a dead screen – although it would 
> be a bit of a coincidence if you were having these other problems and then 
> the screen died when you tried to address them – unlikely but coincidences DO 
> happen. – If you have an external screen and the appropriate lead/adaptor you 
> might be able to narrow the problem down to a failed screen (very long shot).
> I suppose the residual cruft from the SMC fan controller might give some 
> problems – however that would all reside on the HD so with the HD removed I 
> would have thought the MBP should behave as normal if there are no hardware 
> problems (well normal for a computer with no HD as discussed above).
> After removing the HD, did you try booting from the install disk that came 
> with the MBP – if there are no hardware problems I think that you should be 
> able to install a bare OSX even on an external usb stick of sufficient size – 
> if you can confirm the actual MBP hardware (less HD) is OK then it is worth 
> persevering to upgrade.
>  
> As I say, just some thoughts which might help you narrow down the actual 
> problem or problems.
>  
>  
> HTH
>  
>  
> Neil
>  
>  
> --
> Neil R. Houghton
> Albany, Western Australia
> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063
> Email: n...@possumology.com
> From:  on behalf of Peter 
> Crisp 
> Reply-To: WAMUG 
> Date: Sunday, 20 May 2018 at 21:10
> To: WAMUG 
> Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!
>  
> Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter 
> connected it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an 
> externally connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the 
> SMC app in the Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon 
> refitting to Tim’s MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the 
> problem is with the MBP chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am 
> puzzled where to now. If I simply replace the HDD, with this information it 
> seems unlikely that that 

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Neil Houghton]

Hi Peter,

 

Just some thoughts.

 
The fact that you can mount the HD on another computer does not necessarily 
mean that there will be no problems with it - or the system installed on it – 
but it does suggest that the HD is not the cause of the black screen/no life 
problem of the MBP.
I do not think there is any point trying to fit a new HD until you have 
determined the hardware status of the MBP.
Even with no HD inside, if the MBP was OK I would expect to see it attempt to 
start and then display a flashing “?” to indicate that it cannot find a 
suitable OS to boot from – that is what happened with my iMac when the internal 
drive died.
If the problem was just with either the HD or a corrupt system installation on 
it, as a test you should still be able to run the MBP from an external HD – I 
continued to use my iMac from an external FW drive, containing a previous clone 
of my system, for around 2 years before I finally got round to repairing the 
iMac with a SSD and new HD.
As Ronni says, you could try and run Apple Hardware Test (AHT) – although the 
MBP will at least need a working screen.
I suppose it is possible that the MBP has a dead screen – although it would be 
a bit of a coincidence if you were having these other problems and then the 
screen died when you tried to address them – unlikely but coincidences DO 
happen. – If you have an external screen and the appropriate lead/adaptor you 
might be able to narrow the problem down to a failed screen (very long shot).
I suppose the residual cruft from the SMC fan controller might give some 
problems – however that would all reside on the HD so with the HD removed I 
would have thought the MBP should behave as normal if there are no hardware 
problems (well normal for a computer with no HD as discussed above).
After removing the HD, did you try booting from the install disk that came with 
the MBP – if there are no hardware problems I think that you should be able to 
install a bare OSX even on an external usb stick of sufficient size – if you 
can confirm the actual MBP hardware (less HD) is OK then it is worth 
persevering to upgrade.
 

As I say, just some thoughts which might help you narrow down the actual 
problem or problems.

 

 

HTH

 

 

Neil

 

 

-- 

Neil R. Houghton

Albany, Western Australia

Tel: +61 8 9841 6063

Email: n...@possumology.com

From:  on behalf of Peter Crisp 

Reply-To: WAMUG 
Date: Sunday, 20 May 2018 at 21:10
To: WAMUG 
Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

 

Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter connected 
it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an externally 
connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the SMC app in the 
Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon refitting to Tim’s 
MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the problem is with the MBP 
chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am puzzled where to now. If I 
simply replace the HDD, with this information it seems unlikely that that would 
actually fix the problem. 

 

Buying a replacement MBP and restoring from the backup would be plagued by the 
SMC installation in the backup and there being no apparent way to get his MBP 
to start up and be able to get into the OSX to disable the SMC fan controller. 
Buying a replacement SSD for his MBP and copying over also would not seem to be 
a solution given the fact it looks fine when connected as an external disc. 

 

Is there some other sort of way I could assess the HDD to confirm it’s status 
or even the MBP hardware as well?

Regards

 

 

Pete


On 20 May 2018, at 7:17 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:

HI ROnni, thanks for that, but the problem i have is that Tim’s MBP is 
completely unresponsive so I cannot even get into it to disable the SMC Fan 
control he installed to then create a backup with that not in place. So I am 
stuck with the backup I have.  I really am unsire of the next step, I will 
persevere with the current MBP now but I think I am wasting my time. All that 
happens is the screen remains black and the fan starts up, nothing to show. I 
think it is rooted. Maybe there is a command I can hold upon hitting the start 
button but I try “Shift” and “Command R” and nothing really results from it.

Regards

 

 

Pete


On 20 May 2018, at 6:52 pm, Ronda Brown  wrote:

Hi Peter,

I would be careful about restoring from backup until you can completely 
uninstall the smcFanControl then do a backup & restore from the new backup.

 

Apple and we consultants don’t recommend users to control the fan speed by any 
3rd party utility, it’s better to let your Mac set the fan speed as it wants. 
smcFanControl is not a necessary app for your Mac.

It installs many files throughout the system which need to be deleted as well 
as the app!

If you think you just drag smcFanControl to the trash & think removal is 
complete, then you’re wrong. That won’t remove the supportive files, cache 
files

Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES!

[Peter Crisp]

Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter connected 
it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an externally 
connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the SMC app in the 
Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon refitting to Tim’s 
MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the problem is with the MBP 
chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am puzzled where to now. If I 
simply replace the HDD, with this information it seems unlikely that that would 
actually fix the problem. 

Buying a replacement MBP and restoring from the backup would be plagued by the 
SMC installation in the backup and there being no apparent way to get his MBP 
to start up and be able to get into the OSX to disable the SMC fan controller. 
Buying a replacement SSD for his MBP and copying over also would not seem to be 
a solution given the fact it looks fine when connected as an external disc. 

Is there some other sort of way I could assess the HDD to confirm it’s status 
or even the MBP hardware as well?

Regards


Pete

> On 20 May 2018, at 7:17 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:
> 
> HI ROnni, thanks for that, but the problem i have is that Tim’s MBP is 
> completely unresponsive so I cannot even get into it to disable the SMC Fan 
> control he installed to then create a backup with that not in place. So I am 
> stuck with the backup I have.  I really am unsire of the next step, I will 
> persevere with the current MBP now but I think I am wasting my time. All that 
> happens is the screen remains black and the fan starts up, nothing to show. I 
> think it is rooted. Maybe there is a command I can hold upon hitting the 
> start button but I try “Shift” and “Command R” and nothing really results 
> from it.
> 
> Regards
> 
> 
> Pete
> 
>> On 20 May 2018, at 6:52 pm, Ronda Brown  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Peter,
>> I would be careful about restoring from backup until you can completely 
>> uninstall the smcFanControl then do a backup & restore from the new backup.
>> 
>> Apple and we consultants don’t recommend users to control the fan speed by 
>> any 3rd party utility, it’s better to let your Mac set the fan speed as it 
>> wants. smcFanControl is not a necessary app for your Mac.
>> It installs many files throughout the system which need to be deleted as 
>> well as the app!
>> If you think you just drag smcFanControl to the trash & think removal is 
>> complete, then you’re wrong. That won’t remove the supportive files, cache 
>> files & other associated items it created during the setup and daily usage. 
>> To thoroughly ‘Delete smcFanControl, it is necessary to delete the remaining 
>> components scattered around the system.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Ronni
>> 
>> Sent from Ronni's iPhone 7 Plus
>> 
>>> On 20 May 2018, at 5:56 pm, Peter Crisp  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi ROnni, yes I have just got back from Gin Gin I had to collect one son 
>>> from Coolup as well so lots of driving today from Mandurah.
>>> 
>>> I am getting you WAMUG mails from WAMUG and I also do see them at the link 
>>> you sent too. Not sure what’s going on your end but it all looks ok from 
>>> the ‘outside’. 
>>> 
>>> I’ve just got back home now so James is rerunning the second half for me 
>>> but I was listening on the radio and I heard Darling was having a cracker.
>>> 
>>> I am looking further into Tims MBP tponoight too, I am not hopeful. I think 
>>> I will be buying another SSD to replace and then restore from backup. But 
>>> fingers crossed. He needs it for school so I gotta do it quickly. I think 
>>> tonight it wont be sorted.
>>> 
>>> Regards
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Pete
>>> 
 On 20 May 2018, at 5:50 pm, Ronda Brown  wrote:
 
 Hi Peter,
 
 That was a great game to watch the Eagles are flying high!
 Darling was absolutely brilliant... I thought his kicking leg would fall 
 off in the final quarter! 
 The whole team played together, very slick and accurate passing either by 
 hand or foot.
 A very good result and well deserved.
 
 Cheers,
 Ronni
 P.S I don’t know what has happened to WAMUG mailing list as I’m not 
 receiving any messages... even my replies to you regarding ‘MacBook 
 failing or not?.
 The archives show my messages, so you can check there at this link
 https://www.mail-archive.com/wamug@wamug.org.au/
 
 
  Ronni Brown’s iPad Pro 12.9-inch 256GB 
 
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