Re: Resetting iCloud - Photos sync data - has become Apple iCloud

[Daniel Kerr]

Hi Michael

When you install updates, or the main system itself, there’s a huge screen of 
Terms of Conditions. I’m sure it’s listed there,…(I’ve never personally sat 
down and read them all, but it does cover pretty much everything Apple, iCloud 
etc from what I’m aware).
And with every update that gets downloaded, there are links for more info.
For example,..if someone was to download macOS Sierra then the features are 
listed for iCloud Drive. For more info, it takes you to Apple’s website, which 
has more info.
Also, from the Mac App Store it has a link to a whole lot of information about 
it’s Privacy to do with it.
http://www.apple.com/au/privacy/
Any time you click an “Agree” button it’s saying there you’ve read all the 
Terms and Conditions and understand it all. (and generally most people don’t). 
Every install as a huge page of them. (most people click “Next” etc and skip 
through them all.
When a computer is first set up, (or you download a major update), all those 
Terms and Conditions are there. And each “partial” upgrade also has a page of 
them as well.
So when you installed the system that had iCloud, the Terms and Conditions 
would have been there, as part of the installation to install iCloud. (as part 
of the whole Operating System).
 
Depending on which iCloud Drive you’re referring to, as it’s slightly different 
in macOS Sierra, as it is to El Capitan as it is to Yosemite……… but it’s not 
all your “stuff” that goes up there (bar macOS Sierra Documents and Desktop), 
but you always have the facility to save them and keep them when turning it 
off. (In macOS SIerra it redownloads all the files).

“Other devices” you would own. The only way it can be used is with the AppeID, 
so unless you’re giving that to other people then obviously it’s only going to 
be your devices.

Following your example. If you bought a new computer with macOS Sierra, when 
you’re installing it one of the first or second (or maybe third, I can’t 
remember off the top of my head) is a massive window of lots of text with all 
the Terms and Conditions relating to the use of the computer and Apple software 
and iCloud and anything thing else relating to the Apple environment etc,..). 
Those same terms and conditions that every single software person or hardware 
person lets you click past when you install anything. So it’s not just Apple, 
it’s everything you install - it’s that huge page of Terms and Conditions that 
everyone clicks “I Agree” to and never reads (OK, maybe some people do, 
generally most people don’t. And to be honest, I think if some people thought 
about it, even in life when a massive contract is given to them, they skim read 
it all before signing it. Not everyone reads every single word and line of text 
in a written contract,…..they “assume” it’s all correct, and the same as what 
they’re wanting to get into/purchase/open a bank account/etc etc). Otherwise 
there’d be a lot less court cases I’m sure,….lol).
Also with macOS Sierra, when you first sign in iCloud brings up a window asking 
you if you want all your Documents and Desktop items to be stored in iCloud “to 
access from all your devices”. These are tick boxes people have the choice to 
tick or untick. (again, if not explained to them or go and read up on what 
these features are, then they may not realise what it does.).
Apple don’t “take control” of your Documents. They really don’t care. And at 
any point you can untick it to get it all back (in macOS SIerra etc).
(You may want to read that privacy link from above).
I know I personally would rather my data with Apple then say Google,…..

But again, it’s a choice. People have the option to use it or not use it at the 
end of the day……….
Apple don’t force them into anything….

On that note, I’ve spent more time on this of my holiday time then I wanted,…so 
that’s my last piece on it.  :))


Kind regards
Daniel

Sent from my iPhone 7

---
Daniel Kerr
MacWizardry

Phone: 0414 795 960
Email: 
Web:   


**For everything Apple**

NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion and as 
such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of MacWizardry. Any 
information provided does not offer or warrant any form of warranty or accept 
liability. It would be appreciated that if any information in this email is to 
be disseminated, distributed or copied, that permission by the author be 
requested. 

> On 2 Jan 2017, at 3:45 pm, Michael Hawkins  
> wrote:
> 
> Daniel, 
> I've never used iCloud other than for its find my phone function and find my 
> Mac function and doubt that I ever will, thumb drives will do for me. 
> 
> I don't remember seeing terms, conditions, caveats or warnings. All I'm aware 
> of is if I go to system preferences then select iCloud and tick the box for 
> iCloud Drive,  a list of programs/apps come up on the screen along with a 
> statement to the effect that they'll be 

Re: Resetting iCloud - Photos sync data - has become Apple iCloud

[Michael Hawkins]

Daniel, 
 I've never used iCloud other than for its find my phone function and find my 
Mac function and doubt that I ever will, thumb drives will do for me. 

I don't remember seeing terms, conditions, caveats or warnings. All I'm aware 
of is if I go to system preferences then select iCloud and tick the box for 
iCloud Drive,  a list of programs/apps come up on the screen along with a 
statement to the effect that they'll be saved to iCloud. No warnings are given 
and there are no terms and conditions stated or referred to.

 If I untick the iCloud box a dialogue box appears "If you turn off iCloud 
Drive, all documents stored in iCloud will be deleted from this Mac." 

That statement is in bold. 

In a substantially smaller font and in a light shade of grey there is the 
further statement "Your documents will still be available on other devices 
using iCloud."

Now, I don't know who owns those "other devices", but assuming I do and no-one 
else does, what happens if I untick the iCloud box in preferences in those 
other devices? 

Nothing is said about that in the dialogue box. Instead there's a blue question 
mark, a button marked "Cancel" and another button "Delete from Mac".

Now let's assume I bought my computer with Sierra installed and transferred to 
it the content that I and I alone had created on my current computer. Correct 
me if I'm wrong, but does Apple give equal prominence any where in its blurb 
promoting the use of iCloud to the fact that doing so could result in Apple 
taking control of my documents and preventing me from accessing them unless I 
agree to recommencing the use of iCloud? 

That sort of information should not be buried away in small font wordy terms 
and conditions. Not every one has the good fortune to have their computer set 
up by someone who brings to their attention Apple's attempt to tie people to 
Apple's hardware. I'd say that that conduct is unconscionable. It's  too late 
to bring it to the buyer's attention after they'd been induced to buy Apple 
hardware because of iCloud and after they've transferred their data to the 
computer.

Regards,

Michael

Sent from my iPhone

> On 2 Jan 2017, at 2:50 pm, Daniel Kerr  wrote:
> 
> I wasn’t going to reply to this, but there is incorrect information Michael.
> That’s actually not correct.
> If you’re using iCloud Drive and your Desktop and Documents are in the cloud, 
> when you turn it off, they come back.
> I know this,…as I’ve changed it around for clients.
> 
> When it’s set up, it CLEARLY says “do you want your Documents and Desktop in 
> the Cloud”. It gives the option to move them there, it doesn’t do it straight 
> away. Again, I know this as I’ve done a lot of macOS Sierra set ups,…….and 
> that option is there, and I’ve seen the question come up multiple times. I 
> stop at that point and ask the client what they want to do and explain it. 
> Not one set up I have done, have they automatically gone to the cloud. And 
> the same for every iCloud set up, I’ve done. There is the option.
> 
> So I’m not sure what “ransom” you are referring to…….
> I’m not sure what "bee in your bonnet" you have with Apple and iCloud, but 
> they are pretty upfront with the information. They explain in lots of details 
> what iCloud is, what is does, how it can be used and gives people the option 
> to use it or not……..
> (sure it might not be there directly onscreen, but it’s in the “read more” 
> info and links that they provide when setting up iCloud. And they explain it 
> all on the webpages as well.
> 
> I’ve never seen anyone’s data ever just get “lost” and not able to be bought 
> back on any machine I’ve ever worked on. (e.g. sorry, all your info is in the 
> cloud, you can’t have it on your computer),….and I’ve done a lot of computers 
> in my time,………
> 
> It’s something that’s there. People don’t have to use it if they don’t want 
> to. If it helps or serves well, then that’s great. But no one is being forced 
> into using it. You don’t want to use the features,…don’t. Just turn it off. 
> If you find some of them useful,…turn it on. Easy!
> 
> But saying it’s being held ransom is a bit untrue I feel.
> 
> I’m sure in your field, people can’t use the excuse, “well, I didn’t read all 
> the Terms and Conditions” or “I didn’t read the legal jargon”, so I’m sure I 
> should be allowed to be let off.
> (OK, so I simplified it a little there,…but just using it as a rough 
> example,…).
> 
> Just my 2cents worth. Now back to my holiday break :)
> 
> Happy New Year to all.
> 
> Kind regards
> Daniel
> 
> Sent from my iPhone 7
> 
> ---
> Daniel Kerr
> MacWizardry
> 
> Phone: 0414 795 960
> Email: 
> Web:   
> 
> 
> **For everything Apple**
> 
> NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion and 
> as such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of MacWizardry. 
> Any information provided does not offer or warrant any form of 

Re: Resetting iCloud - Photos sync data - has become Apple iCloud

[Daniel Kerr]

I wasn’t going to reply to this, but there is incorrect information Michael.
That’s actually not correct.
If you’re using iCloud Drive and your Desktop and Documents are in the cloud, 
when you turn it off, they come back.
I know this,…as I’ve changed it around for clients.

When it’s set up, it CLEARLY says “do you want your Documents and Desktop in 
the Cloud”. It gives the option to move them there, it doesn’t do it straight 
away. Again, I know this as I’ve done a lot of macOS Sierra set ups,…….and that 
option is there, and I’ve seen the question come up multiple times. I stop at 
that point and ask the client what they want to do and explain it. Not one set 
up I have done, have they automatically gone to the cloud. And the same for 
every iCloud set up, I’ve done. There is the option.

So I’m not sure what “ransom” you are referring to…….
I’m not sure what "bee in your bonnet" you have with Apple and iCloud, but they 
are pretty upfront with the information. They explain in lots of details what 
iCloud is, what is does, how it can be used and gives people the option to use 
it or not……..
(sure it might not be there directly onscreen, but it’s in the “read more” info 
and links that they provide when setting up iCloud. And they explain it all on 
the webpages as well.

I’ve never seen anyone’s data ever just get “lost” and not able to be bought 
back on any machine I’ve ever worked on. (e.g. sorry, all your info is in the 
cloud, you can’t have it on your computer),….and I’ve done a lot of computers 
in my time,………

It’s something that’s there. People don’t have to use it if they don’t want to. 
If it helps or serves well, then that’s great. But no one is being forced into 
using it. You don’t want to use the features,…don’t. Just turn it off. If you 
find some of them useful,…turn it on. Easy!

But saying it’s being held ransom is a bit untrue I feel.

I’m sure in your field, people can’t use the excuse, “well, I didn’t read all 
the Terms and Conditions” or “I didn’t read the legal jargon”, so I’m sure I 
should be allowed to be let off.
(OK, so I simplified it a little there,…but just using it as a rough example,…).

Just my 2cents worth. Now back to my holiday break :)

Happy New Year to all.

Kind regards
Daniel

Sent from my iPhone 7

---
Daniel Kerr
MacWizardry

Phone: 0414 795 960
Email: 
Web:   


**For everything Apple**

NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion and as 
such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of MacWizardry. Any 
information provided does not offer or warrant any form of warranty or accept 
liability. It would be appreciated that if any information in this email is to 
be disseminated, distributed or copied, that permission by the author be 
requested. 

> On 2 Jan 2017, at 2:35 pm, Michael Hawkins  
> wrote:
> 
> And if you tick the "off" box a warning appears on the screen to the effect 
> that if iCloud is turned off, all data will be removed from the computer.
> 
> If that's not being held to ransom, I don't what is
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Michael
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On 2 Jan 2017, at 2:23 pm, Michael Hawkins  
> wrote:
> 
>> All I know is that If you don't want anything to go to iCloud Drive, you 
>> have to make sure that the "On" box is not ticked.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Michael
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> On 2 Jan 2017, at 2:06 pm, Tim Law  wrote:
>> 
>>> Bill,
>>> 
>>> I don't agree that iCloud is only useful for finding a lost phone.
>>> 
>>> I didn't seek advise on iCloud security nor what my personal choices of how 
>>> the technology suits my lifestyle should be.
>>> 
>>> The purpose for my initial request for guidance and support on a technical 
>>> matter has been resolved.
>>> 
>>> Tim
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Tim's Retina iPad 2
>>> 
>>> On 2 Jan 2017, at 1:43 pm, Bill Parker  wrote:
>>> 
 Time,
 
 I don’t think its necessary to be forced by Apple to do anything.  I use 
 Bing to search and unless I clear all sites after doing so I notice ads 
 popping up for service I was previously searching for. Kill off Cookies!  
 iCloud?  Extremely useful for finding a lost phone, but not much else.
 
 
 Bill
> On 2 Jan 2017, at 12:05, Tim Law  wrote:
> 
> Michael my recollection from the last month, was that prior to me making 
> a decision to use iCloud to sync my Photos, that I used iTunes, which I 
> understand is the default, or at least was the only option for many 
> years. 
> 
> This worked fine, but for the reasons I have already stated, I chose to 
> use iCloud for Photos, and in fact, for the full suite of its capacity - 
> Keychain, Find my iPhone, Contacts, Calendar etc.Now the ‘stuck’ 
> issue has been resolved, it works fine for me, and