Re: What can I replace X Pixmaps with?
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:58:44 +0100 Brandon Dowdy wrote: > Hi, > > I know this mailing list is mainly for anything about Wayland and I know > that Wayland doesn't deal with rendering, so this may be the wrong place to > ask or get advice about this, but I just wanted to get some advice (and may > be some ideas as well) for what I can replace X Pixmaps with(if I'm able to > and if it's possible to do so, of course) since I'm feeling a bit stuck > with that at the moment. Hello, to complement the other answers, you probably know that X11 Pixmaps are server-side pixel storage you can manipulate by sending X11 requests. This is useful because X11 has drawing commands, and keeping some data stashed in the server can make things much more efficient. Wayland has no drawing commands as such; you cannot tell the display server to do your drawing. Hence Wayland has no concept of pixmaps either, no server-side pixel storage you could tell the display server to operate on. Since on Wayland there is no concept of pixmaps at all, there is no replacement really. > I am working on a fork of a window decorator and I want to replace X > Pixmaps with something else(or at least, an equivalent to it) so I can make > it less X-specific and less X-reliant (and kind-of more cross-platform, > perhaps...? If I know what I'm talking about and if you know what I'm > talking about, that is) for rendering window decorations. Wayland started with client-side window decorations. Clients draw all decorations into their own buffer as an integral part of their window, and the server adds nothing. Since then, protocol extensions have appeared that allow negotiating with the server to use server-side decorations. However, I don't think there is any generic interface for plugging a window decorator into a server. So you're not just missing a pixel storage, you're missing everything for the interface. You'll have to change your whole architecture, so that all the decorating happens purely inside the client or at least never involves the display server. This also implies that you cannot decorate application windows without the applications having explicit support for your decorator engine. Or, if you are targeting Wayland display servers that do support server-side decorations, then you need to integrate with those display servers in particular. Thanks, pq pgpWffLTUXdnq.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: What can I replace X Pixmaps with?
On Fri, 11 Oct 2019 10:58:44 +0100 Brandon Dowdy said: > Hi, > > I know this mailing list is mainly for anything about Wayland and I know > that Wayland doesn't deal with rendering, so this may be the wrong place to > ask or get advice about this, but I just wanted to get some advice (and may > be some ideas as well) for what I can replace X Pixmaps with(if I'm able to > and if it's possible to do so, of course) since I'm feeling a bit stuck > with that at the moment. > > I am working on a fork of a window decorator and I want to replace X > Pixmaps with something else(or at least, an equivalent to it) so I can make > it less X-specific and less X-reliant (and kind-of more cross-platform, > perhaps...? If I know what I'm talking about and if you know what I'm > talking about, that is) for rendering window decorations. > > Is there anything that I can replace X Pixmaps with? I was mainly thinking > cairo_surfaces from Cairo(unless I'm missing the point with this or I'm > missing the point with how Cairo is *supposed* to be used) or EGLSurfaces > from EGL(but it sounds like it would be a bit complicated(and just a *tad* > bit over-engineered, perhaps...?) to set up *just* for a window decorator, > but I don't know, I just want your opinion on this), but I don't know if > those would be suitable to use for a window decorator or not(kind-of my > third concern about this). It all depends on the use case. If it is meant to be displayed in a window (surface) directly (this is the content of the window in a buffer) then you will want wayland shm buffers or dmabufs (from drm). If it's for the purposes of drawing/rendering which is what I think you want mostly (rendering *TO* a target shm or dmabuf in the end), then this is totally tied to your rendering system. I suspect you are using X requests to do this (XCopyArea, XFillRectangle, XFillPolygon etc.). All of these are requests for the XServer to do this work for you remotely as a client, thus X provides pixmaps as pixel buffers/storage objects. There is XPutImage/XShmPutImage and friends which which is about copying data from a client to the server (or back the other way). As you are no longer asking your display server to render this is no longer needed. It's all local. It depends how you render locally in the end. At the most basic: malloc() your own blobs of memory for pixel storage and write your own code to process pixels by walking the memory and copying data from one place in memory to another, write values in (draw rectangles, lines, copy 2D regions breaking them into spans etc. etc.). This is by far the most portable as then the only problem in the end is what pointer for what buffer to write to and its dimensions. It has no dependencies beyond the final output targets which you will need anyway. The final buffer you present in can be a shm buffer itself, thus just another pointer like all your other memory but the memory is obtained by creating a shared memory segment, not malloc. You can run without a display system and target /dev/fb device you mmaped in, can target a shm buffer you send to the xserver with XShmPutImage or just XPutImage for the slower network capable path. You can also upload those pixels to a texture with glTextImage/glTextSubImage etc. etc. ... the big downside being that you have to write all your own rendering code, optimize it etc. ... you will learn a lot in the process but it'll take a lot of time and effort. There are many libraries out there that can do this for you in various ways and at various levels. That is the point of toolkits. They tend to give you the highest level APIs and hide almost all of the details so you don't need to know or care. You can then look for the lower levels of those toolkits if you want more control. There are a fair few to choose from. You can use rendering libraries like cairo or drop one level down and use pixman too. You could just use OpenGL (then learn EGL+Opengl-ES2 for best portability - that's my suggestion if you plan on going down that path) or even Vulkan if you want to be trendy. Note that these libraries will pretty much then require a GPU accelerator. There are software implementations of OpenGL rendering stacks but they tend to be rather slow compared to special hand crafted 2D rendering code. > Also, are there (available) replacements or substitutes or alternatives to > using X Pixmaps that don't involve using X functions or do I have to try > substituting X Pixmaps on my own (somehow?) > > I think that's it for all of the information and all of the questions that > I have written down and thought about(at least, for now). I've been > thinking and wondering about this for a little while now and I hope all of > this is clear and understandable to you. > > I hope to seek a response from you soon. > > Cheers, > > Brandon Dowdy -- - Codito, ergo sum - "I code, therefore I am" -- Carsten Haitzler - ras...@rasterman.com
Re: What can I replace X Pixmaps with?
Hi, On Friday, October 11, 2019 12:58 PM, Brandon Dowdy wrote: > Hi, > > I know this mailing list is mainly for anything about Wayland and I know that > Wayland doesn't deal with rendering, so this may be the wrong place to ask or > get advice about this, but I just wanted to get some advice (and may be some > ideas as well) for what I can replace X Pixmaps with(if I'm able to and if > it's possible to do so, of course) since I'm feeling a bit stuck with that at > the moment. > > I am working on a fork of a window decorator and I want to replace X Pixmaps > with something else(or at least, an equivalent to it) so I can make it less > X-specific and less X-reliant (and kind-of more cross-platform, perhaps...? > If I know what I'm talking about and if you know what I'm talking about, that > is) for rendering window decorations. > > Is there anything that I can replace X Pixmaps with? I was mainly thinking > cairo_surfaces from Cairo(unless I'm missing the point with this or I'm > missing the point with how Cairo is *supposed* to be used) or EGLSurfaces > from EGL(but it sounds like it would be a bit complicated(and just a *tad* > bit over-engineered, perhaps...?) to set up *just* for a window decorator, > but I don't know, I just want your opinion on this), but I don't know if > those would be suitable to use for a window decorator or not(kind-of my third > concern about this). > > Also, are there (available) replacements or substitutes or alternatives to > using X Pixmaps that don't involve using X functions or do I have to try > substituting X Pixmaps on my own (somehow?) > > I think that's it for all of the information and all of the questions that I > have written down and thought about(at least, for now). I've been thinking > and wondering about this for a little while now and I hope all of this is > clear and understandable to you. IMHO Cairo is a fine choice for this use-case. However, what are your plans to make your window decorator work on Wayland? Is it tied to a specific Wayland compositor? ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
What can I replace X Pixmaps with?
Hi, I know this mailing list is mainly for anything about Wayland and I know that Wayland doesn't deal with rendering, so this may be the wrong place to ask or get advice about this, but I just wanted to get some advice (and may be some ideas as well) for what I can replace X Pixmaps with(if I'm able to and if it's possible to do so, of course) since I'm feeling a bit stuck with that at the moment. I am working on a fork of a window decorator and I want to replace X Pixmaps with something else(or at least, an equivalent to it) so I can make it less X-specific and less X-reliant (and kind-of more cross-platform, perhaps...? If I know what I'm talking about and if you know what I'm talking about, that is) for rendering window decorations. Is there anything that I can replace X Pixmaps with? I was mainly thinking cairo_surfaces from Cairo(unless I'm missing the point with this or I'm missing the point with how Cairo is *supposed* to be used) or EGLSurfaces from EGL(but it sounds like it would be a bit complicated(and just a *tad* bit over-engineered, perhaps...?) to set up *just* for a window decorator, but I don't know, I just want your opinion on this), but I don't know if those would be suitable to use for a window decorator or not(kind-of my third concern about this). Also, are there (available) replacements or substitutes or alternatives to using X Pixmaps that don't involve using X functions or do I have to try substituting X Pixmaps on my own (somehow?) I think that's it for all of the information and all of the questions that I have written down and thought about(at least, for now). I've been thinking and wondering about this for a little while now and I hope all of this is clear and understandable to you. I hope to seek a response from you soon. Cheers, Brandon Dowdy ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org https://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
