Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Hi, On 3 October 2012 05:34, Bill Spitzak wrote: > Having read the bug, it seems extremely specific to layout switching with > shift+ctrl. It's not. > However there are a lot of other identical bugs that prevent > things that are common on Windows from working on X: > > 1. One post mentions that hitting the "windows" key does some action, but > that makes it impossible to do windows+X shortcuts. On Windows itself the > "windows" key action only happens if you press & release it without hitting > other keys. Unrelated to XKB. > 2. I am also aware of a nice "compose key" prefix system for Windows that > cannot be done on X. It uses the "ctrl" keys for the compose key. You press > & release ctrl and then type the compose sequence. However you cannot do > this on X without breaking all the ctrl+letter shortcuts! This compose key > prefix is a hell of a lot better than shift+altGr or whatever X uses, which > is shameful because otherwise X is much better than Windows at compose. Unrelated to XKB. > I would propose that the key->event translator knows what keys are "shift" > keys. You can bind actions to them. However the action is only triggered if > the shift key is pressed & released without pressing any other keys in > between. For all other keys the bound action is triggered when the key is > pressed. Yes. Cheers, Daniel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Having read the bug, it seems extremely specific to layout switching with shift+ctrl. However there are a lot of other identical bugs that prevent things that are common on Windows from working on X: 1. One post mentions that hitting the "windows" key does some action, but that makes it impossible to do windows+X shortcuts. On Windows itself the "windows" key action only happens if you press & release it without hitting other keys. 2. I am also aware of a nice "compose key" prefix system for Windows that cannot be done on X. It uses the "ctrl" keys for the compose key. You press & release ctrl and then type the compose sequence. However you cannot do this on X without breaking all the ctrl+letter shortcuts! This compose key prefix is a hell of a lot better than shift+altGr or whatever X uses, which is shameful because otherwise X is much better than Windows at compose. I would propose that the key->event translator knows what keys are "shift" keys. You can bind actions to them. However the action is only triggered if the shift key is pressed & released without pressing any other keys in between. For all other keys the bound action is triggered when the key is pressed. Daniel Stone wrote: Hi, On 2 October 2012 17:51, Ran Benita wrote: Well, speaking of XKB bugs, there's this one which is inherent to the specification: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=865 We might want to consider some way to properly fix this? Indeed. I still can't think of a way to do this properly as such; using level 0 seems the closest to expectations, I think. Needs some more practical testing though. The main reason I didn't pursue it is because I think it'd end up breaking X no matter what, but it's something we can look at for xkbcommon. Cheers, Daniel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Hi, On 2 October 2012 17:51, Ran Benita wrote: > Well, speaking of XKB bugs, there's this one which is inherent to the > specification: > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=865 > We might want to consider some way to properly fix this? Indeed. I still can't think of a way to do this properly as such; using level 0 seems the closest to expectations, I think. Needs some more practical testing though. The main reason I didn't pursue it is because I think it'd end up breaking X no matter what, but it's something we can look at for xkbcommon. Cheers, Daniel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 12:35:31PM +1000, Daniel Stone wrote: > Hi, > > On 2 October 2012 11:38, wrote: > > On 10/02, Фамилия Имя wrote: > >> switch between different keyboard layouts (languages) using both alt keys. > >> It was > > > >> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4927 > > > > This mentions a fix for X would be to switch to xkbcommon. xkbcommon is > > what weston uses, so it seems likely to not have this problem. > > > > Wayland is a protocol, and I think it's appropriate to say keyboard input > > implementation is not specified by it, so another implementation could do > > it a different way. Weston is just the reference implementation. But I > > think others are expected to use xkbcommon. > > Yeah, xkbcommon doesn't have this problem at all. It's mostly just an > implementation detail of the X server, that we're completely free from > because we always send our keymaps losslessly serialised to strings, > rather than a broken binary format. Well, speaking of XKB bugs, there's this one which is inherent to the specification: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=865 We might want to consider some way to properly fix this? ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Hi, On 2 October 2012 11:38, wrote: > On 10/02, Фамилия Имя wrote: >> switch between different keyboard layouts (languages) using both alt keys. >> It was > >> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4927 > > This mentions a fix for X would be to switch to xkbcommon. xkbcommon is > what weston uses, so it seems likely to not have this problem. > > Wayland is a protocol, and I think it's appropriate to say keyboard input > implementation is not specified by it, so another implementation could do > it a different way. Weston is just the reference implementation. But I > think others are expected to use xkbcommon. Yeah, xkbcommon doesn't have this problem at all. It's mostly just an implementation detail of the X server, that we're completely free from because we always send our keymaps losslessly serialised to strings, rather than a broken binary format. Cheers, Daniel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
On 10/02, Фамилия Имя wrote: > switch between different keyboard layouts (languages) using both alt keys. It > was > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4927 This mentions a fix for X would be to switch to xkbcommon. xkbcommon is what weston uses, so it seems likely to not have this problem. Wayland is a protocol, and I think it's appropriate to say keyboard input implementation is not specified by it, so another implementation could do it a different way. Weston is just the reference implementation. But I think others are expected to use xkbcommon. -- "My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai E. Stevenson Jr. http://www.ChaosReigns.com ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
