Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Hi, On 3 October 2012 05:34, Bill Spitzak wrote: > Having read the bug, it seems extremely specific to layout switching with > shift+ctrl. It's not. > However there are a lot of other identical bugs that prevent > things that are common on Windows from working on X: > > 1. One post mentions that hitting the "windows" key does some action, but > that makes it impossible to do windows+X shortcuts. On Windows itself the > "windows" key action only happens if you press & release it without hitting > other keys. Unrelated to XKB. > 2. I am also aware of a nice "compose key" prefix system for Windows that > cannot be done on X. It uses the "ctrl" keys for the compose key. You press > & release ctrl and then type the compose sequence. However you cannot do > this on X without breaking all the ctrl+letter shortcuts! This compose key > prefix is a hell of a lot better than shift+altGr or whatever X uses, which > is shameful because otherwise X is much better than Windows at compose. Unrelated to XKB. > I would propose that the key->event translator knows what keys are "shift" > keys. You can bind actions to them. However the action is only triggered if > the shift key is pressed & released without pressing any other keys in > between. For all other keys the bound action is triggered when the key is > pressed. Yes. Cheers, Daniel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Having read the bug, it seems extremely specific to layout switching with shift+ctrl. However there are a lot of other identical bugs that prevent things that are common on Windows from working on X: 1. One post mentions that hitting the "windows" key does some action, but that makes it impossible to do windows+X shortcuts. On Windows itself the "windows" key action only happens if you press & release it without hitting other keys. 2. I am also aware of a nice "compose key" prefix system for Windows that cannot be done on X. It uses the "ctrl" keys for the compose key. You press & release ctrl and then type the compose sequence. However you cannot do this on X without breaking all the ctrl+letter shortcuts! This compose key prefix is a hell of a lot better than shift+altGr or whatever X uses, which is shameful because otherwise X is much better than Windows at compose. I would propose that the key->event translator knows what keys are "shift" keys. You can bind actions to them. However the action is only triggered if the shift key is pressed & released without pressing any other keys in between. For all other keys the bound action is triggered when the key is pressed. Daniel Stone wrote: Hi, On 2 October 2012 17:51, Ran Benita wrote: Well, speaking of XKB bugs, there's this one which is inherent to the specification: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=865 We might want to consider some way to properly fix this? Indeed. I still can't think of a way to do this properly as such; using level 0 seems the closest to expectations, I think. Needs some more practical testing though. The main reason I didn't pursue it is because I think it'd end up breaking X no matter what, but it's something we can look at for xkbcommon. Cheers, Daniel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Hi, On 2 October 2012 17:51, Ran Benita wrote: > Well, speaking of XKB bugs, there's this one which is inherent to the > specification: > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=865 > We might want to consider some way to properly fix this? Indeed. I still can't think of a way to do this properly as such; using level 0 seems the closest to expectations, I think. Needs some more practical testing though. The main reason I didn't pursue it is because I think it'd end up breaking X no matter what, but it's something we can look at for xkbcommon. Cheers, Daniel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 12:35:31PM +1000, Daniel Stone wrote: > Hi, > > On 2 October 2012 11:38, wrote: > > On 10/02, Фамилия Имя wrote: > >> switch between different keyboard layouts (languages) using both alt keys. > >> It was > > > >> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4927 > > > > This mentions a fix for X would be to switch to xkbcommon. xkbcommon is > > what weston uses, so it seems likely to not have this problem. > > > > Wayland is a protocol, and I think it's appropriate to say keyboard input > > implementation is not specified by it, so another implementation could do > > it a different way. Weston is just the reference implementation. But I > > think others are expected to use xkbcommon. > > Yeah, xkbcommon doesn't have this problem at all. It's mostly just an > implementation detail of the X server, that we're completely free from > because we always send our keymaps losslessly serialised to strings, > rather than a broken binary format. Well, speaking of XKB bugs, there's this one which is inherent to the specification: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=865 We might want to consider some way to properly fix this? ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Hi, On 2 October 2012 11:38, wrote: > On 10/02, Фамилия Имя wrote: >> switch between different keyboard layouts (languages) using both alt keys. >> It was > >> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4927 > > This mentions a fix for X would be to switch to xkbcommon. xkbcommon is > what weston uses, so it seems likely to not have this problem. > > Wayland is a protocol, and I think it's appropriate to say keyboard input > implementation is not specified by it, so another implementation could do > it a different way. Weston is just the reference implementation. But I > think others are expected to use xkbcommon. Yeah, xkbcommon doesn't have this problem at all. It's mostly just an implementation detail of the X server, that we're completely free from because we always send our keymaps losslessly serialised to strings, rather than a broken binary format. Cheers, Daniel ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Re: Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
On 10/02, Фамилия Имя wrote: > switch between different keyboard layouts (languages) using both alt keys. It > was > https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4927 This mentions a fix for X would be to switch to xkbcommon. xkbcommon is what weston uses, so it seems likely to not have this problem. Wayland is a protocol, and I think it's appropriate to say keyboard input implementation is not specified by it, so another implementation could do it a different way. Weston is just the reference implementation. But I think others are expected to use xkbcommon. -- "My definition of a free society is a society where it is safe to be unpopular." - Adlai E. Stevenson Jr. http://www.ChaosReigns.com ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
Will Wayland also ship with broken keyboard layout switching?
Hi, sorry if it's not the right place to ask. Afaik Wayland uses a lot of X11 code for keyboard keys mapping/management. In 2008 something broke in the X11 input stack that doesn't allow any longer to switch between different keyboard layouts (languages) using both alt keys. It was very handy btw. Since then I'm using the usual (but less handy) "Alt+Shift" keyboard combination. Can anyone please check if Wayland/Weston has this issue to? i.e. can you switch between different languages with "both Alt keys"? Here's a few bug reports, some people tracked it down to the (new) XKM file format but nonetheless hasn't been fixed: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/205314 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4927 https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xserver-xorg-input-keyboard/+bug/203991 ___ wayland-devel mailing list wayland-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/wayland-devel
