[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Lewis]

Someday, I'll try ansible.  Spelling correction to the rescue.

On Sunday, June 7, 2015 at 7:51:06 PM UTC-7, Lewis wrote:
>
> Thanks for all this.
>
> So, the world seems to back UWSGI as the preferrred solution.  I'll get 
> over it.  I see that you are saying that once when one does need 
> performance tuning with multiple workers, uwsgi is both more performant and 
> more tunable.
>
> I think having a fabric deploy script will solve my problems.
>
> Someday I'll try unusable.
>
> Enough for now.
>

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Lewis]

Thanks for all this.

So, the world seems to back UWSGI as the preferrred solution.  I'll get 
over it.  I see that you are saying that once when one does need 
performance tuning with multiple workers, uwsgi is both more performant and 
more tunable.

I think having a fabric deploy script will solve my problems.

Someday I'll try unusable.

Enough for now.

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Niphlod]

On Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 5:57:36 PM UTC+2, Lewis wrote:
>
> What about gunicorn as a wsgi server to simply stand between nginx and 
> web2py?
>

gunicorn behind nginx is a popular config, but usually is to have several 
gevented processes to bind on a single socket. There are several "workers" 
available, and I'm not saying that is not useful otherwise, but it's where 
it shines (and was born for (note the "g")). I'm not counting to 
continously bash your proposal, but it doesn't seem that gunicorn 
parameters (and docs) are less intuitive than the one for running a wsgi 
app inside uwsgi (nor more "stable").
 

>
> Here is what I am going to do:
> 1. script (Bash) my config so that it is repeatable.  This will be similar 
> to the existing scripts supplied with web2py, but with small changes.  test 
> it in a new deployment on a clean VM. 
> 2. Port this to either fabric or ansible to enable repeatable, remote 
> deployment.  Can either reuse the Bash script or do it the fabric way.
> 3. Try either gunicorn or tornado as a stand-in wsgi shim as an 
> alternative to uwsgi to see what is involved.  Won't improve performance or 
> feature set--just a way to see if config is any more manageable.
>

perfect plan, but again, I'm fighting hard to see the point (searching for 
a "stabler" config syntax). BTW: Tornado isn't suited AT ALL useful if you 
plan to run a web2py app in 95% of the cases. 
 

>
> I do think anyserver.py is a convenient accompaniament to using rocket 
> locally.  Let's the test server run remotely.  Is there any way to get 
> anyserver to support ssl for the admin ui?
>
>
Nope, for two simple reasons:
 - not every webserver supports ssl
 - you're not supposed to run any of them without a frontend: in any case 
it can take care of SSL termination way better than pure python solutions  

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Lewis]

What about gunicorn as a wsgi server to simply stand between nginx and 
web2py?

Here is what I am going to do:
1. script (Bash) my config so that it is repeatable.  This will be similar 
to the existing scripts supplied with web2py, but with small changes.  test 
it in a new deployment on a clean VM. 
2. Port this to either fabric or ansible to enable repeatable, remote 
deployment.  Can either reuse the Bash script or do it the fabric way.
3. Try either gunicorn or tornado as a stand-in wsgi shim as an alternative 
to uwsgi to see what is involved.  Won't improve performance or feature 
set--just a way to see if config is any more manageable.

I do think anyserver.py is a convenient accompaniament to using rocket 
locally.  Let's the test server run remotely.  Is there any way to get 
anyserver to support ssl for the admin ui?

Thanks

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Niphlod]

cherrypy or rocket may sustain an average of 50 concurrent users (again, on 
an average linode server, etc etc etc). no multiprocess usage. no defense 
against common attacks like slowloris. 

I'm not advocating at all twisted, tornado or gevent 'cause your app needs 
to be rewritten to use what they offer. Once done, they can sustain easily 
thousands of concurrent users.

nginx+uwsgi can very well sustain 1k concurrent users without hassles on a 
linode server. you get (at the very least) multiprocessing, automatic 
recycle of workers, fine grained stats, defense against pretty much 
anything (as always against DDoS there's really not much you can do).

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Lewis]

Those 19 lines had been in place from before 2013 (probably 2011!), which 
is why I missed the change.   That site is not really "production" except 
for the fact that it faces the public internet.  Probably has no visitors 
except me;  I just want to learn how to configure and manage something that 
is a sensible production environment.

I realize I am not cutting any cogs, just substituting cogs.

Why would you rule out Cherrypy?  I am not a big proponent of one over the 
other, just curious about your strong recommendation in favor of twisted, 
tornado, gevent. Simply looking for something reasonably well-supported, 
reliable, easier to manage, and adequate in performance (whatever that 
means).

Thanks.

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 2:53:37 PM UTC-7, Niphlod wrote:
>
> anyone is free to do whatever he/she wants. 
> Few things to consider: uwsgi is by far the most complete piece of 
> production-ready "thingy" to run your app into. 
> Given that a frontend IMHO is required, when you set a reverse proxy to 
> anyserver.py (vs setting uwsgi) if you don't have specific requirements to 
> run outside uwsgi, you're absolutely NOT cutting any "cogs" in your system. 
> frontend-thingy-app.
> "specific requirements to run outside uwsgi" IMHO are : twisted, tornado, 
> maybe gevent. 
>
> Running rocket,waitress,cherrypy,paste,wsgiref (i.e. threaded webservers) 
> is a NO-GO if you have uwsgi at your disposal.
>
> Hoping that a software doesn't break even between major releases is hoping 
> for the best (I assume you had some passing from uwsgi 1.x to 2.x), but 
> these 19 lines 
> 
>  didn't 
> change from Jan 2013. 
> If you don't want anything to change, don't update your system in the 
> first place. If you want new features / bugs fixed / etc, you HAVE to deal 
> with some discrepancies.
>
> note for everybody: I'm not at all involved in uwsgi development/marketing 
> at all, but I strongly feel that what Roberto did needs to be highly 
> considered. He's passionate, replies quickly and politely all the times and 
> listens to the community very carefully.
>

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Niphlod]

anyone is free to do whatever he/she wants. 
Few things to consider: uwsgi is by far the most complete piece of 
production-ready "thingy" to run your app into. 
Given that a frontend IMHO is required, when you set a reverse proxy to 
anyserver.py (vs setting uwsgi) if you don't have specific requirements to 
run outside uwsgi, you're absolutely NOT cutting any "cogs" in your system. 
frontend-thingy-app.
"specific requirements to run outside uwsgi" IMHO are : twisted, tornado, 
maybe gevent. 

Running rocket,waitress,cherrypy,paste,wsgiref (i.e. threaded webservers) 
is a NO-GO if you have uwsgi at your disposal.

Hoping that a software doesn't break even between major releases is hoping 
for the best (I assume you had some passing from uwsgi 1.x to 2.x), but 
these 19 lines 

 didn't 
change from Jan 2013. 
If you don't want anything to change, don't update your system in the first 
place. If you want new features / bugs fixed / etc, you HAVE to deal with 
some discrepancies.

note for everybody: I'm not at all involved in uwsgi development/marketing 
at all, but I strongly feel that what Roberto did needs to be highly 
considered. He's passionate, replies quickly and politely all the times and 
listens to the community very carefully.

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Lewis]

I should point out this minimal approach doesn't support https, so the 
admin console can't be reached.  Login also can't be used without https and 
ssl.  The digital ocean article shows how to enable ssl for cherrypy. 
 Hopefully, I can interpolate a bit and actually use nginx to do the https 
routing with ssl (as it works for uwsgi).

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 10:06:00 AM UTC-7, Lewis wrote:
>
> This worked:  python anyserver.py -s cherrypy -i 0.0.0.0 -p 80 > logfile &
>
> I get the reverse proxy thing.   Currently, I have uwsgi behind nginx 
> which works. However, uwsgi's settings are twiddly; seem to change between 
> versions; the documentation, while extensive, is challenging; and I don't 
> need its features.  It seems Roberto, a frequent contributor here, promotes 
> uwsgi as both a web server in its own right and a load balancer. All fine, 
> but increases complexity.  
>
> I am looking for the most minimal wsgi "shim" instead of the more robust 
> uwsgi.  For this experimental site performance is not such a big deal.
>
> I have found Digital Ocean's documentation for many, many useful 
> configurations.  It provides a really great starting point.  Here:  
> https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tags/python?type=tutorials
>
>

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Lewis]

This worked:  python anyserver.py -s cherrypy -i 0.0.0.0 -p 80 > logfile &

I get the reverse proxy thing.   Currently, I have uwsgi behind nginx which 
works. However, uwsgi's settings are twiddly; seem to change between 
versions; the documentation, while extensive, is challenging; and I don't 
need its features.  It seems Roberto, a frequent contributor here, promotes 
uwsgi as both a web server in its own right and a load balancer. All fine, 
but increases complexity.  

I am looking for the most minimal wsgi "shim" instead of the more robust 
uwsgi.  For this experimental site performance is not such a big deal.

I have found Digital Ocean's documentation for many, many useful 
configurations.  It provides a really great starting point.  Here:  
https://www.digitalocean.com/community/tags/python?type=tutorials

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[web2py] Re: using anyserver.py in production

[Niphlod]

use -i 0.0.0.0 to listen on all available interfaces. 

BTW#1: the default webserver (rocket) and cherrypy (what you seem to want 
using) have nearly the same performances

BTW#2: unless you have some specific requirements, for an internet-facing 
server is ALWAYS recommended to use a real webserver as a frontend (i.e. 
nginx or apache), even if you use more performant python-webservers (i.e. 
gunicorn or tornado)


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