Re: [webkit-dev] Fwd: Feature removal: CSS variables
Thanks for the follow up, Karen. - R. Niwa On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 12:19 AM, Karen Shaeffer wrote: > Hi Ryosuke, > I don't have time at the moment. But I remain interested in WebKit and am > reading the > emails as much as possible. I am thinking I'll have more time this summer > for WebKit. > > Thanks for following up. I have given the issue considerable thought. Not > practical for > me at the moment. > > enjoy, > Karen > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 10:45:39PM -0700, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > Hi Karen, > > > > Have you decided whether you can maintain the CSS variables in WebKit or > > not? As far as I checked, I didn't find any patches posted or committed > by > > you on Bugzilla or on Trac. > > > > We have a contributor's meeting coming up in Thursday, and I would like > to > > know whether we can proceed to remove the feature from the trunk for the > > time being. > > > > - R. Niwa > > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Karen Shaeffer >wrote: > > > > > On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 05:40:33PM -0700, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Jon Rimmer > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As well as being in Chrome, custom property support is also being > > > > > developed by Mozilla[4]. It is an actively edited W3C spec that is > > > expected > > > > > to reach Last Call status soon[5]. Given that situation, removing > it > > > from > > > > > WebKit seems a very negative step. If it is removed and remains > > > > > unimplemented in Safari and other WebKit browsers, then they will > > > continue > > > > > to fall behind competing layout engines. If it is removed now and > must > > > be > > > > > resurrected at a later date, then the total cost is likely to be > > > greater > > > > > than making the effort to turn it on and take ownership of it > *now*. > > > > > > > > > > > > > I definitely see a value in keeping the feature. However, there is a > > > > practical problem of someone having to maintain the code. Now that > all > > > > contributors who have previously worked on this feature has left to > work > > > on > > > > Blink, I don't see who can be maintaining this code in WebKit. Are > you > > > > volunteering to maintain the code? If not, then who is? > > > > > > > > Not having this feature will be unfortunate and we might need to add > it > > > > back in the future, but that's much better than leaving unmaintained > code > > > > in our codebase. > > > > > > > > - R. Niwa > > > > > > Hi Niwa, > > > I am willing to consider if it is practical for me to volunteer to > > > maintain CSS > > > variables for the webkit project. I'll need a week to make an informed > > > decision, > > > because I already have a full plate. But I am very interested in > webkit, > > > and this > > > seems like a good time to step up to help the team. CSS variables does > > > appear to > > > be a worthy feature to maintain. If the team is willing to let this sit > > > for a week, > > > then that'll give me time to consider the issue properly. > > > > > > enjoy, > > > Karen > > > -- > > > Karen Shaeffer > > > Neuralscape, Mountain View, CA 94040 > > > > --- end quoted text --- > > -- > Karen Shaeffer > Neuralscape, Mountain View, CA 94040 > ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Fwd: Feature removal: CSS variables
Hi Ryosuke, I don't have time at the moment. But I remain interested in WebKit and am reading the emails as much as possible. I am thinking I'll have more time this summer for WebKit. Thanks for following up. I have given the issue considerable thought. Not practical for me at the moment. enjoy, Karen On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 10:45:39PM -0700, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > Hi Karen, > > Have you decided whether you can maintain the CSS variables in WebKit or > not? As far as I checked, I didn't find any patches posted or committed by > you on Bugzilla or on Trac. > > We have a contributor's meeting coming up in Thursday, and I would like to > know whether we can proceed to remove the feature from the trunk for the > time being. > > - R. Niwa > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Karen Shaeffer > wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 05:40:33PM -0700, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Jon Rimmer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > As well as being in Chrome, custom property support is also being > > > > developed by Mozilla[4]. It is an actively edited W3C spec that is > > expected > > > > to reach Last Call status soon[5]. Given that situation, removing it > > from > > > > WebKit seems a very negative step. If it is removed and remains > > > > unimplemented in Safari and other WebKit browsers, then they will > > continue > > > > to fall behind competing layout engines. If it is removed now and must > > be > > > > resurrected at a later date, then the total cost is likely to be > > greater > > > > than making the effort to turn it on and take ownership of it *now*. > > > > > > > > > > I definitely see a value in keeping the feature. However, there is a > > > practical problem of someone having to maintain the code. Now that all > > > contributors who have previously worked on this feature has left to work > > on > > > Blink, I don't see who can be maintaining this code in WebKit. Are you > > > volunteering to maintain the code? If not, then who is? > > > > > > Not having this feature will be unfortunate and we might need to add it > > > back in the future, but that's much better than leaving unmaintained code > > > in our codebase. > > > > > > - R. Niwa > > > > Hi Niwa, > > I am willing to consider if it is practical for me to volunteer to > > maintain CSS > > variables for the webkit project. I'll need a week to make an informed > > decision, > > because I already have a full plate. But I am very interested in webkit, > > and this > > seems like a good time to step up to help the team. CSS variables does > > appear to > > be a worthy feature to maintain. If the team is willing to let this sit > > for a week, > > then that'll give me time to consider the issue properly. > > > > enjoy, > > Karen > > -- > > Karen Shaeffer > > Neuralscape, Mountain View, CA 94040 > > --- end quoted text --- -- Karen Shaeffer Neuralscape, Mountain View, CA 94040 ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Fwd: Feature removal: CSS variables
Hi Karen, Have you decided whether you can maintain the CSS variables in WebKit or not? As far as I checked, I didn't find any patches posted or committed by you on Bugzilla or on Trac. We have a contributor's meeting coming up in Thursday, and I would like to know whether we can proceed to remove the feature from the trunk for the time being. - R. Niwa On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Karen Shaeffer wrote: > On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 05:40:33PM -0700, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Jon Rimmer wrote: > > > > > > > > As well as being in Chrome, custom property support is also being > > > developed by Mozilla[4]. It is an actively edited W3C spec that is > expected > > > to reach Last Call status soon[5]. Given that situation, removing it > from > > > WebKit seems a very negative step. If it is removed and remains > > > unimplemented in Safari and other WebKit browsers, then they will > continue > > > to fall behind competing layout engines. If it is removed now and must > be > > > resurrected at a later date, then the total cost is likely to be > greater > > > than making the effort to turn it on and take ownership of it *now*. > > > > > > > I definitely see a value in keeping the feature. However, there is a > > practical problem of someone having to maintain the code. Now that all > > contributors who have previously worked on this feature has left to work > on > > Blink, I don't see who can be maintaining this code in WebKit. Are you > > volunteering to maintain the code? If not, then who is? > > > > Not having this feature will be unfortunate and we might need to add it > > back in the future, but that's much better than leaving unmaintained code > > in our codebase. > > > > - R. Niwa > > Hi Niwa, > I am willing to consider if it is practical for me to volunteer to > maintain CSS > variables for the webkit project. I'll need a week to make an informed > decision, > because I already have a full plate. But I am very interested in webkit, > and this > seems like a good time to step up to help the team. CSS variables does > appear to > be a worthy feature to maintain. If the team is willing to let this sit > for a week, > then that'll give me time to consider the issue properly. > > enjoy, > Karen > -- > Karen Shaeffer > Neuralscape, Mountain View, CA 94040 > ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Fwd: Feature removal: CSS variables
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Karen Shaeffer wrote: > On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 05:40:33PM -0700, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Jon Rimmer wrote: > > > > > > > > As well as being in Chrome, custom property support is also being > > > developed by Mozilla[4]. It is an actively edited W3C spec that is > expected > > > to reach Last Call status soon[5]. Given that situation, removing it > from > > > WebKit seems a very negative step. If it is removed and remains > > > unimplemented in Safari and other WebKit browsers, then they will > continue > > > to fall behind competing layout engines. If it is removed now and must > be > > > resurrected at a later date, then the total cost is likely to be > greater > > > than making the effort to turn it on and take ownership of it *now*. > > > > > > > I definitely see a value in keeping the feature. However, there is a > > practical problem of someone having to maintain the code. Now that all > > contributors who have previously worked on this feature has left to work > on > > Blink, I don't see who can be maintaining this code in WebKit. Are you > > volunteering to maintain the code? If not, then who is? > > > > Not having this feature will be unfortunate and we might need to add it > > back in the future, but that's much better than leaving unmaintained code > > in our codebase. > > Hi Niwa, > I am willing to consider if it is practical for me to volunteer to > maintain CSS > variables for the webkit project. I'll need a week to make an informed > decision, > because I already have a full plate. But I am very interested in webkit, > and this > seems like a good time to step up to help the team. CSS variables does > appear to > be a worthy feature to maintain. If the team is willing to let this sit > for a week, > then that'll give me time to consider the issue properly. > Excellent! Please let us know once you've decided whether you can take the ownership or not. - R. Niwa ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Fwd: Feature removal: CSS variables
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 7:30 PM, Karen Shaeffer wrote: > > I am willing to consider if it is practical for me to volunteer to > maintain CSS > variables for the webkit project. I'll need a week to make an informed > decision, > because I already have a full plate. But I am very interested in webkit, > and this > seems like a good time to step up to help the team. CSS variables does > appear to > be a worthy feature to maintain. If the team is willing to let this sit > for a week, > then that'll give me time to consider the issue properly. > If waiting a week means we get a new contributor, that sounds like a good deal :) Cheers, Benjamin ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
Re: [webkit-dev] Fwd: Feature removal: CSS variables
On Sun, Apr 07, 2013 at 05:40:33PM -0700, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: > On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Jon Rimmer wrote: > > > > > As well as being in Chrome, custom property support is also being > > developed by Mozilla[4]. It is an actively edited W3C spec that is expected > > to reach Last Call status soon[5]. Given that situation, removing it from > > WebKit seems a very negative step. If it is removed and remains > > unimplemented in Safari and other WebKit browsers, then they will continue > > to fall behind competing layout engines. If it is removed now and must be > > resurrected at a later date, then the total cost is likely to be greater > > than making the effort to turn it on and take ownership of it *now*. > > > > I definitely see a value in keeping the feature. However, there is a > practical problem of someone having to maintain the code. Now that all > contributors who have previously worked on this feature has left to work on > Blink, I don't see who can be maintaining this code in WebKit. Are you > volunteering to maintain the code? If not, then who is? > > Not having this feature will be unfortunate and we might need to add it > back in the future, but that's much better than leaving unmaintained code > in our codebase. > > - R. Niwa Hi Niwa, I am willing to consider if it is practical for me to volunteer to maintain CSS variables for the webkit project. I'll need a week to make an informed decision, because I already have a full plate. But I am very interested in webkit, and this seems like a good time to step up to help the team. CSS variables does appear to be a worthy feature to maintain. If the team is willing to let this sit for a week, then that'll give me time to consider the issue properly. enjoy, Karen -- Karen Shaeffer Neuralscape, Mountain View, CA 94040 ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] Fwd: Feature removal: CSS variables
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Jon Rimmer wrote: > The debate over the syntax of "CSS variables" is long and storied, and is > marked by misused terminology and misunderstanding in general. Most > objections from developers stem from a preference for a $foo style syntax, > as used in the SASS preprocessor. However, SASS's kind of "variables" are > not really variables, they are preprocessor defines. "CSS variables" as > implemented by this feature are also not variables either, nor do they > match what SASS does. They as better referred to custom properties, and > indeed, the full title of the specification has already changed to reflect > this[1]. The $foo syntax is not a good fit for custom properties, but is > being reserved for other, variable-esque things, that might be added to CSS > in the future[2]. > > CSS Custom Properties are an important feature. They support the basic use > case of defining some value, like a colour, in a single location, then > using it in others. Unlike preprocessor defines however, they participate > in the cascade, meaning a value can easily be overridden for a section of a > page if required. They also play an important role in Web Components, where > they provide a method for encapsulated widgets to provide a styling > interface to their users[3]. Furthermore, it's also possible to imagine CSS > libraries like Bootstrap using custom properties to allow them to be > configured without having to rebuild the entire library with the > preprocessor, or as a way to provide custom styling information that can be > consumed by JavaScript UI libraries such as jQuery Mobile (in that sense, > they are more analogous to HTML's data-* attributes than variables). > > As well as being in Chrome, custom property support is also being > developed by Mozilla[4]. It is an actively edited W3C spec that is expected > to reach Last Call status soon[5]. Given that situation, removing it from > WebKit seems a very negative step. If it is removed and remains > unimplemented in Safari and other WebKit browsers, then they will continue > to fall behind competing layout engines. If it is removed now and must be > resurrected at a later date, then the total cost is likely to be greater > than making the effort to turn it on and take ownership of it *now*. > I definitely see a value in keeping the feature. However, there is a practical problem of someone having to maintain the code. Now that all contributors who have previously worked on this feature has left to work on Blink, I don't see who can be maintaining this code in WebKit. Are you volunteering to maintain the code? If not, then who is? Not having this feature will be unfortunate and we might need to add it back in the future, but that's much better than leaving unmaintained code in our codebase. - R. Niwa ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
[webkit-dev] Fwd: Feature removal: CSS variables
On Sun, Apr 7, 2013 at 9:36 AM, Andreas Kling wrote: > I'd like to remove the CSS variable feature from the tree now that > Chromium has left, as they were the only ones shipping it AFAIK. > If we were to keep the feature, my only concern will be that someone needs to maintain this code. Is anyone interested in maintaing this code in WebKit? - R. Niwa ___ webkit-dev mailing list webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org https://lists.webkit.org/mailman/listinfo/webkit-dev
