[libreoffice-website] Re: [libreoffice-website] license for wiki uploads [was: wiki todos]
Hi Florian, all, CC'ing the design list, because it's mainly their content we talk here (at the moment)... Hi Bernhard, Bernhard Dippold wrote on 2010-12-14 21.30: As we work on content to be included in the product in our wiki, I've been thinking about adding a second license to the wiki upload: LGPL. So the contributor can choose between: - CC - LGPL - CC LGPL double license (I'd prefer as default) What do you think? Would this be a question for the SC? I'm no license expert -- why do you want to do so, what would be the benefits? At the moment we work on the LibO mimetype icons and upload the source files to the wiki. If they would be licensed right from the beginning under LGPL, the final icons could easily be integrated in the product without asking every contributor for licensing their work under LGPL. This might be true for other graphics too when we start working on the Community Branding. I could imagine other parts of the package that might be handled in a similar way (menu icons, templates, gallery items ...). I'm not a license expert either, but nobody told me about negative aspects of such a double license strategy by now, so I just wanted to post my ideas... Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #5 Home page widgets
Hi David, *, On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 12:01 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote: Here is a screenshot [1] with requests for the Latest Blog Posts widget and the Twitter widget. putting it here for reference in future posts :-) [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/cgi_img_auth.php/0/0f/Libo-screenshot-11.png Thanks again for the visual help, this really makes it easier to grasp things quickly. Basically, I'm wondering if you can: 1) Style the Latest Blog Posts widget like the Twitter widget Sure - although I'm not sure about the colors of the Twitter widget itself. you can play with the colors at the twitter page itself http://twitter.com/about/resources/widgets/widget_profile or use a site like jsfiddle.net (paste the twitter generated code into the HTML-section (top-left) and click run → result will be at the lower right, change code in the HTML part, click run again → repeat until you're happy, then save (or remember the colors yourself :-)) use http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Marketing/Branding#Colors as guidelines What is fixed/not scrolled is the header part and the bottom part - do you want that for the blog-widget area as well? I.e. non-scrolling header, and non-scrolling bottom-part? 2) Change the title of the blog posts widget to Latest Blog Posts Sure, that's no problem whatsoever :-) But the question is: What blog/feed to poll? For pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780 I used http://blog.documentfoundation.org/ - but maybe a aggregated feed would make more sense? Similar for the twitter widget - it's currently a so-called profile widget, i.e. doesn't perform a search for terms, but only lists tweets from docufoundation. 3) Make those two widgets available on test.libreoffice.org (I inserted the code from the Welcome page of http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/ into the home page of test.libreoffice.org but the widgets don't seem to work on test.libreoffice.org, whereas they work fine on http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/... Yes, that is because the automatically generated data is provided by the controller of the corresponding page - and that doesn't exist yet on test.libreoffice.org (also the templates to render the data doesn't exist yet. Silverstripe follows a MVC (Model View Controller) concept :-) The code needs minor cleanup before publishing :-)) Could you make any necessary changes and get them working? Sure. Thanks if so. I ill have finished with all the pages before Friday morning (CET time), so we could ask Florian to roll the site out on Friday maybe... Great news! - Thank you very much for your efforts! ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] TODO #5 Home page widgets
Hi David, *, On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 12:01 PM, David Nelson comme...@traduction.biz wrote: 1) Style the Latest Blog Posts widget like the Twitter widget Is http://pumbaa.ooodev.org:7780/ what you had in mind? ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?
Hi *, On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 6:55 AM, Michael Wheatland mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote: On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 2:40 PM, Sophie Gautier gautier.sop...@gmail.com wrote: [...] We will never force anyone to do anything. In my mind, once the Drupal development is complete and implemented then people will want to move tools. Then they can make their decision on a basis where Drupal is functional. Whether they then like it or not cannot be anticipated yet. As I understand it, this is why the SC asked the website team to develop Drupal. No SC never asked the website team to devlop Drupal. There were many Drupal fans/supporters that strongly voiced their opinion to choose drupal as CMS. But they just couldn't manage to setup a demo that met the basic requirements. That is why SC did choose Silverstripe, with the option to reconsider moving to Drupal early spring next year. By then, the drupal site should shine, the drupal supporters will be happy with it and they are sure it will convince people to switch. But in the end it depends on the user-interface of the drupal site whether the people who work with it will ask for the switch or beg the SC to stick with silverstripe. I didn't look at the current state of affairs wrt drupal, and probably will not have time for evaluation this year anyway, so I cannot give feedback yet. [...] It should be made clear to those contributing where the project is going, this ensures that the work and project are aligned. Second guessing SC decisions is not good for community morale and discourages contribution. Sophie is part of the SC, so it can hardly be second guessing the decisions. And she also explained herself pretty clearly: She (as part of the SC) will not tell people to use whatever if the people won't like it. So I don't understand the fuzz about it. Again I state: What I saw of drupal in October did put me off, I'd never want to use drupal in a state like this. That's where SC decision comes in: It gives drupal folks a very, very fair chance to present themselves, gives them enough time to work without pressure/need to hurry on a cool site that will convince users not becuase it is drupal, the great tool that can do everything when you configure it properly, but because it actually *does* that stuff. IMHO, The Drupal website development has been a great example of the community creating the tool they want. they in this case is mainly drupal-supporters, not the whole community, and especially not the people who will maintain the content. Those people will only get a chance to make their decision when the drupal-team announces their page as we think everything is ready, go check it out and provide feedback And yes, you got input from various groups that in part already use drupal for their work and stuff, but still this is hardly the community. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?
On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:32 AM, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote: And yes, you got input from various groups that in part already use drupal for their work and stuff, but still this is hardly the community. If you can suggest more ways to get feedback than the mailing lists and the wiki I am all ears. -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?
Hi, :-) There is also the question of who would administer a Drupal site. I'm not currently aware of any candidates with the right profile, unless Christian was willing to do it. Administering one of TDF's Web resources requires a lot of technical knowledge and experience. It's not the same as simply setting-up a site, theming it, installing a choice of modules and away we go. The code base behind the website is managed via a TDF-managed git repository. You can't just tweak and edit files on the server. The admin has to have the knowledge to be able to configure site modules in a way that properly interacts and works with the server and other TDF resources possibly affected. Christian will be able to tell you a lot more about those technical aspects. The admin has to be someone known and trusted by TDF and Ooodevs De, because he/she will have access to important project resources. Even if one found someone from outside with the necessary knowledge and experience of Drupal *and* of system admin, that person would still have to go through at least the qualification period (currently stated as 3 months in the soon-to-be-applicable community bylaws [1]) before being a possible candidate. From the past discussions of Drupal, I'm not aware of any candidates for the job - unless Christian himself were to take on the task. By candidate, I mean someone with the necessary technical qualifications *plus* the motivation, desire and long-term commitment to steering and handling the changeover, and to dealing with the site administration on an on-going basis. In addition, before being adopted as LibO's new CMS, a fully-operational, full-featured demo has to be offered for *thorough prior evaluation*. It's not enough to be evangelizing Drupal and saying it *can* do this and it *can* do that. It has to be proven and concretely demonstrated that it's a superior choice and that TDF/LibO really *needs* it. True meritocracy is supposed to be the driving force behind this project. No official decision has yet been taken by the SC/BoD (i.e. via a vote that complies with the community bylaws), so Drupal is presently a possible choice for consideration, but not more. You only have to read the SC meeting minutes [2] to be clear about that: vote if to start with Silverstripe or Drupal result: 6 for Silverstripe vs. 2 for Drupal - 2/3rd majority for Silverstripe reason to vote for Silverstripe was in most cases that a fast go-live is expected and that there are people to do administration and take care about content reason to vote for Drupal was the higher flexibility (and therefore better long-term solution) as well as having several people with good knowledge about drupal suggestion is that the website team should do some more planning, what we need regarding website, additional services, and see how this can be achieved with drupal. We see the need of a more sophisticated CMS in the future. Let me say that it's not that I'm against the adoption of Drupal per se. But I think that it would have to be proven that it's in the community's interests, and I would not like to see the project bulldozed through hype, disinformation and hypothetical claims. [1] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/CommunityBylaws [2] http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/TDF/Steering_Committee_Meetings#Minutes_2010-10-27 David Nelson -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?
Hi Michael, *, On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 11:17 PM, Michael Wheatland mich...@wheatland.com.au wrote: On Thu, Dec 16, 2010 at 3:32 AM, Christian Lohmaier lohmaier+ooofut...@googlemail.com wrote: And yes, you got input from various groups that in part already use drupal for their work and stuff, but still this is hardly the community. If you can suggest more ways to get feedback than the mailing lists and the wiki I am all ears. Sorry if I sounded too negative, I just wanted to support Sophie's POV since I had the impression you did not listen to what she actually wrote, but only what you wanted to hear, thus leaving the objective level and on the rim to getting personal. The feedback will come in January, after the first release is out of the door and people have time to evaluate the drupal site, give it a try. The Editors/Maintainers/NL-Project members don't have fancy requirements, but they need a tool that they are comfortable with. So it is not about the features you need to add to drupal, but about the editor, the page-creation, linking, etc., the very basic stuff that needs to be appealing. ciao Christian -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Personal Statement (was: Re: [libreoffice-website] What's the official policy about the LibO website: Drupal or no Drupal?)
Hi all, sorry ... I seem to be a bit lost at the moment. To be honest, I neither have the technical competence, nor do I know all the details with regard to our community processes. What I currently perceive is, that there is a discussion covering Silverstripe and Drupal and some decisions / recommendations that have been made by the SC. Personally, I do miss a discussion like Yes you are right. The alternative in XYZ is ABC. Do you think that this will work for you / can be implemented in this or that way? That is what I currently think - personally: * The current website is - at a first glance - somehow simple to understand, but fails when looking at other details. So yes, we do need a viable alternative... * The Silverstripe site requires some love to communicate to our users that LibreOffice is high quality. This both refers to the editorial content (David is working on it), and an appealing visual design. If we fail with the site content, we won't need any website technology successor ;-) * The Drupal website team is working hard to provide a scalable alternative that suits needs from man others. But, it appears to me the there is some rush (we originally considered half a year to be sufficient to get, and to incorporate the desired input). Don't get me wrong - I'm deeply impressed how ambitious the plans are for providing a perfectly set-up Drupal. But, personally I'm so busy at the moment (or maybe I am just unable to manage my time properly), that I fail to provide any substantial input that has been requested long time ago. The consequence: I sometimes feel a bit hesitant when it comes to the Drupal website - because I don't know whether my requirements are met (my = statements related to Design Team needs). Maybe this is similar to other guys here ... Finally, to me it is not about the technological approach, but the better solution that suits our needs. And - as far as I can see - there are many more challenging requirements than to simply set up a good web infrastructure. OOo had a huge success, because of many non-web tools - and the web based tools to promote and to work on the software itself. So my question is, whether we can step back and think about, whether there is a chance to improve both tools, streamline processes, ease work? If yes, then the decision is somehow easy ;-) So my plea is - please be patient with us all to finally deliver LibreOffice 3.3, let us take some deep breath (some of us are working since months without any significant pause), and pick up the discussions on the next gen infrastructure. In the meantime ... Please consider to work together to make the Silverstripe based page a success, and thus, make LibreOffice a success. The more we learn within these next weeks and months, the better we will know why and how Drupal may be a better match for us. For those closely related to Drupal website development (with - maybe - less experience working on Silverstripe), please put together all your knowledge and try to work on the issues other members like Sophie do mention. In my point-of-view, some small proof-of-concepts may help to let other people understand how things will get better ... and you'll get the chance to get hands-on based feedback ;-) Okay, sorry for the lengthly mail, but (to me) this was very important. Please read on ... Am Donnerstag, den 16.12.2010, 07:47 +0930 schrieb Michael Wheatland: And yes, you got input from various groups that in part already use drupal for their work and stuff, but still this is hardly the community. If you can suggest more ways to get feedback than the mailing lists and the wiki I am all ears. Personally, I do scan the blog postings quite regularly. It would be great to get some easy-to-grasp information there. Then, the progress is much less hidden (again, a very personal statement, because I'm unable to dig deeper in the wiki) and the chance for explaining the thoughts that might improve the processes (e.g. Sophie talks about) is much better. I'm sorry if this puts even more workload on you (and the team), but I do think it will pay off in the end. Less (felt) surprises, less discussions afterwards. How does that sound? Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
[libreoffice-website] Re: Personal Statement
hi Christoph, all, thank you for this mail, it allows me a short(er) reply ;-) Christoph Noack schrieb: [...] So my plea is - please be patient with us all to finally deliver LibreOffice 3.3, let us take some deep breath (some of us are working since months without any significant pause), and pick up the discussions on the next gen infrastructure. +1 In the meantime ... Please consider to work together to make the Silverstripe based page a success, and thus, make LibreOffice a success. The more we learn within these next weeks and months, the better we will know why and how Drupal may be a better match for us. +1 (or even more) Discussion on general orientation and decisions in our community are important, but take some time for reading and writing. I don't think we have this time *now*, because everything discussed here has just very limited influence on the two most important activities in our community for the next few weeks: 1. Create a website that can be active as soon as possible. This website is the SilverStripe website (clear decision by the SC), that needs content (now!) as well as design (at least to the LibO 3.3 release) showing the world, that we are an active community able to provide professional software and present it in a professional way. 2. Prepare the LibO 3.3 release to make it a success in all the necessary fields: coding, presentation on the website and in public, documentation, translation / localization and so on. This task has to be handled by nearly every team in our community. Website needs work as mentioned above, design has to prepare the application / mimetype icons, provide marketing material and promotional design following our initial branding, marketing has to develop strategies to make this release a loud bang not only for the FOSS world, but for the general public too (please let me exaggerate a bit, you probably understand what I mean). I don't have to talk about coding, documentation and localization (including websites and local marketing activities) - there has already been done a tremendous work, but I'm quite sure that everybody will work hard until the last second, in order to make this release the best release we (including the old OOo community) ever had. There is a third task - mainly to be handled by the Steering Committee members: To install the legal foundation. Even if this is not visible here on the lists, I', quite sure that they spend more time as we imagine in this area. We are all volunteers, so no-one can force anybody to do something she or he doesn't like. I just beg you: Please let us all work on these tasks. The design team already put the discussion about our final Community Branding back until the LibO 3.3. release is over. We postponed the discussion on the goals of our community too, as even this topic is too complex for the present time and will have no influence on the product to be released now. (And I think we know quite well where we want to go). Please let's do something similar for the discussion on Drupal and when it should be able to replace SilverStripe. There is no need at all to discuss the wording and intention of the SC. We will see in a few months if the Drupal site will fit our needs better than the existing SilverStripe one. I'm quite sure it will, but this has not to be in January, not even in March. This switch doesn't have any time pressure - and I don't want us to create it. When the site is better for us we'll switch, and if not: I'm quite sure that the Drupal team will improve it until it fits. As I said above: I can't and I don't want to force you. But please consider to spend your precious spare time in one of the task with much less time. Every day without a working LibO website causes interested people to turn away from our product and our community. Every day with a less professional website causes people to think (and spread this thought) that our product might be in the same state as our website. And of course we need to provide the final release of our high quality product and promote it sufficiently as soon as possible. Best regards Bernhard -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
Less Personal :-) (was: Re: [libreoffice-website] Re: Personal Statement)
Hi Bernhard, all! Am Donnerstag, den 16.12.2010, 01:39 +0100 schrieb Bernhard Dippold: 1. Create a website that can be active as soon as possible. This website is the SilverStripe website (clear decision by the SC), that needs content (now!) as well as design (at least to the LibO 3.3 release) showing the world, that we are an active community able to provide professional software and present it in a professional way. During the last days, I was thinking about how to improve the current website design. I know that I'm a bit late, so please consider these ideas to be ... ideas. If some of these could be implemented - this would be great. I'm currently sure that this will positively affect the experience of our users ... So, why improvements? Although the visual and structural design of the current (static) website has proven to work rather well, this design might not work that good for Silverstripe. I started to draw some boundary boxes (several days ago) for one of the pages - in a very simplified point-of-view, the aim should be to reduce the number of lines to reduce an uncluttered design. http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/xZawms3ks-rpnvizZFN6pA?feat=directlink In this example, there isn't even a sub-menu that will add another item on the left hand site. Also, on some pages there seems to be a breadcrumb menu: http://test.libreoffice.org/features/draw/ So, I started to work on a menu concept (and iterated a lot, I fell back to very simple but powerful version...) and added some more visual design. Thus, here is an example for the welcome page - along with the menus to be used on other pages: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/bbnG0Hny0SpccJIZsGp72A?feat=directlink My assumption is, that (having users in mind, and basic developer information as well) two menu levels should be sufficient for the page. Thus, we can avoid using the breadcrumb. The sub-menu is directly placed below the main menu (if required on that page). Another nice side-effect is the search functionality (once being available) is well integrated and also provides visual feedback if used (usually, search leads to somehow nowhere on other pages). But, of course, there are also many open points - e.g. the proper integration of the language projects (usually offered in the upper right), ... and how to provide such Emotional Artwork (in the most simple case a static picture). However, it would be great to know what you think ... Cheers, Christoph -- Unsubscribe instructions: E-mail to website+h...@libreoffice.org List archive: http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/website/ *** All posts to this list are publicly archived for eternity ***
