Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Thorsten Behrens]

Jan Holesovsky wrote:
> Can anyone create the page, please?  The first cut does not to have to
> be 100% if there are still unresolved concerns ;-)
>
Page is live under
http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/ now.

Cheers,

-- Thorsten

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi all,

Jan Holesovsky píše v St 13. 03. 2013 v 09:40 +0100:

> I guess the best place would be like
> 
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
> 
> linked from the main certification site, with a text like
> 
> - 8< -
> LibreOffice Certified Developers are individuals who have proved their
> ability to hack LibreOffice code to develop new features or provide L3
> Support to enterprise users, researching and developing solutions to new
> or unknown issues, designing and developing one or more courses of
> action, evaluating each of these courses in a test case environment, and
> implementing the best solution to the problem. Once the solution is
> verified, it is delivered to the customer and given back to the
> community.
> 
> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the
> Certification Committee, and peer reviewed by the Engineering Steering
> Committee.
> 
> [and here the list of the Certified Developers - see the TDF
> announcement link above, it contains it in the 1st paragraph]

[http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2012/11/07/the-document-foundation-announces-the-first-group-of-libreoffice-certified-developers/]

> - 8< -

Can anyone create the page, please?  The first cut does not to have to
be 100% if there are still unresolved concerns ;-) - we just need a
place to list the guys, and to be able to add there when further ones
are certified.

Thank you a lot,
Kendy


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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Italo Vignoli]

Il 14/03/2013 15:14, Joel Madero ha scritto:


In other words I just meant expanding certified developers to mean more
than corporate support.


Of course, this is one of the objectives of the certification program, 
but we can't add commercial informations on our website as this would 
not be appropriate. We can link their website.


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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Joel Madero]

On 03/14/2013 02:40 AM, Italo Vignoli wrote:
We are a not for profit entity, and we cannot engage in a commercial 
activity. Our objective is to develop an ecosystem of third parties 
able to sell value added services.


Of course of course. What I meant was allow certified developers to 
offer individual/hourly or per bug prices on the certified page IF a 
user seems to want options. I fully agree and understand that our 
philosophy is that we fix things for free - but with that comes time 
delays and in some cases I think we can all admit that some enhancements 
just will never get done (look on FDO at the # of them). If a user seems 
to be hinting or directly stating "I WILL PAY FOR THIS!" or they are 
just getting irritated at slow progress, I think pointing them to a 
certified developer list where hourly cost is up there. Some independent 
developers may sooner or later join and "mostly fix for free" but 
occasionally tackle a bug that only a small amount of people want but 
are willing to pay for. For these bugs that will likely be years if ever 
to fix the more options the better, in general the options are:


1. Fix it yourself, code is there, just hack it
2. Make friends with a developer and beg
3. Try to convince the community that it's really important so a 
developer picks it up themselves

4. /Hire a developer (certified page) -- IMO we need to add this
   +Included in this is the micro funding site(s) which seem to be 
gaining popularity



/Best,
Joel

In other words I just meant expanding certified developers to mean more 
than corporate support.


Best,
Joel




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On Thursday 14 March 2013 at 01:58, Joel Madero wrote:

This is from my phone so it will be short. I think individual support 
should be considered on am hourly basis would be nice to direct high 
demand users to a page where they csm get a quote for their fix of 
they are unhappy with slow progress for minor bugs or enhancement 
requests.


Just my thoughts.

Best,
Joel

On Mar 13, 2013 1:07 PM, "Italo Vignoli" > wrote:

Il 13/03/2013 20:45, Immanuel Giulea ha scritto:

The description page 
(http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/) is

rather vague for requirements in each category.


This is an area where we must improve, although the process is quite 
clear for developers where certification is based on a peer review 
(which means that you are certified by your peers, based on your 
contributions).


If we want to grow our community, there should be training done. A 
training
session happened last month. Was the trainer certified? I have no 
idea, but

probably not.


We do not have certified trainers yet, although we have many 
trainers in many countries. They will be able to apply for 
certification, which will be probably based on a peer review (we are 
still discussing this subject, but peer review is probably the best 
way for TDF).



Companies are not necessarily using certified migration professional.
The same logic applies for L1 and L2 support.


Same as above, we do not have certified migration and certified 
support professionals yet. The project is quite young (just over two 
years) and this is the first certification program coming from an 
independent not for profit foundation.


Any help in this area is welcome.

--
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com 
mob +39.348.5653829  - VoIP 
5316...@messagenet.it 
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com 






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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Italo Vignoli]

We are a not for profit entity, and we cannot engage in a commercial activity. 
Our objective is to develop an ecosystem of third parties able to sell value 
added services. 

-- 
Italo Vignoli
Mobile +39.348.5653829
Email italo.vign...@gmail.com


On Thursday 14 March 2013 at 01:58, Joel Madero wrote:

> This is from my phone so it will be short. I think individual support should 
> be considered on am hourly basis would be nice to direct high demand users to 
> a page where they csm get a quote for their fix of they are unhappy with slow 
> progress for minor bugs or enhancement requests.
> Just my thoughts.
> Best,
> Joel 
> On Mar 13, 2013 1:07 PM, "Italo Vignoli"  (mailto:italo.vign...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > Il 13/03/2013 20:45, Immanuel Giulea ha scritto:
> > 
> > > The description page (http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/) is
> > > rather vague for requirements in each category.
> > 
> > This is an area where we must improve, although the process is quite clear 
> > for developers where certification is based on a peer review (which means 
> > that you are certified by your peers, based on your contributions).
> > 
> > > If we want to grow our community, there should be training done. A 
> > > training
> > > session happened last month. Was the trainer certified? I have no idea, 
> > > but
> > > probably not.
> > 
> > We do not have certified trainers yet, although we have many trainers in 
> > many countries. They will be able to apply for certification, which will be 
> > probably based on a peer review (we are still discussing this subject, but 
> > peer review is probably the best way for TDF).
> > 
> > > Companies are not necessarily using certified migration professional.
> > > The same logic applies for L1 and L2 support.
> > 
> > Same as above, we do not have certified migration and certified support 
> > professionals yet. The project is quite young (just over two years) and 
> > this is the first certification program coming from an independent not for 
> > profit foundation.
> > 
> > Any help in this area is welcome.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com (mailto:italo.vign...@gmail.com)
> > mob +39.348.5653829 (tel:%2B39.348.5653829) - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it 
> > (mailto:5316...@messagenet.it)
> > skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com 
> > (mailto:italo.vign...@gmail.com)


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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Joel Madero]

This is from my phone so it will be short. I think individual support
should be considered on am hourly basis would be nice to direct high demand
users to a page where they csm get a quote for their fix of they are
unhappy with slow progress for minor bugs or enhancement requests.

Just my thoughts.

Best,
Joel
On Mar 13, 2013 1:07 PM, "Italo Vignoli"  wrote:

> Il 13/03/2013 20:45, Immanuel Giulea ha scritto:
>
>  The description page (http://www.**documentfoundation.org/**
>> certification/ ) is
>> rather vague for requirements in each category.
>>
>
> This is an area where we must improve, although the process is quite clear
> for developers where certification is based on a peer review (which means
> that you are certified by your peers, based on your contributions).
>
>  If we want to grow our community, there should be training done. A
>> training
>> session happened last month. Was the trainer certified? I have no idea,
>> but
>> probably not.
>>
>
> We do not have certified trainers yet, although we have many trainers in
> many countries. They will be able to apply for certification, which will be
> probably based on a peer review (we are still discussing this subject, but
> peer review is probably the best way for TDF).
>
>  Companies are not necessarily using certified migration professional.
>> The same logic applies for L1 and L2 support.
>>
>
> Same as above, we do not have certified migration and certified support
> professionals yet. The project is quite young (just over two years) and
> this is the first certification program coming from an independent not for
> profit foundation.
>
> Any help in this area is welcome.
>
> --
> Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
> mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
> skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
>

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Italo Vignoli]

Il 13/03/2013 20:45, Immanuel Giulea ha scritto:


The description page (http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/) is
rather vague for requirements in each category.


This is an area where we must improve, although the process is quite 
clear for developers where certification is based on a peer review 
(which means that you are certified by your peers, based on your 
contributions).



If we want to grow our community, there should be training done. A training
session happened last month. Was the trainer certified? I have no idea, but
probably not.


We do not have certified trainers yet, although we have many trainers in 
many countries. They will be able to apply for certification, which will 
be probably based on a peer review (we are still discussing this 
subject, but peer review is probably the best way for TDF).



Companies are not necessarily using certified migration professional.
The same logic applies for L1 and L2 support.


Same as above, we do not have certified migration and certified support 
professionals yet. The project is quite young (just over two years) and 
this is the first certification program coming from an independent not 
for profit foundation.


Any help in this area is welcome.

--
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Immanuel Giulea]

Hello all,

The description page (http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/) is
rather vague for requirements in each category.

For example, I have been working in a small-medium business, and I use
Ubuntu on a daily basis, and LibreOffice every other day.
On top of that, I also make a personal use of LibreOffice on a weekly
basis. I have used OpenOffice for four years before changing to
LibreOffice, and before that I have used MS Office for over 10 years.

Would that be enough to qualify me as anything?
The requirements are not clear.

I live in Montreal, Canada.
Our LibreOffice community is inexistent at best.
If we want to grow our community, there should be training done. A training
session happened last month. Was the trainer certified? I have no idea, but
probably not.

We can assume that every week there are migrations done worldwide, but it
is the IT support people who take care of them inside each company.
Companies are not necessarily using certified migration professional.

The same logic applies for L1 and L2 support.


Description page is great but it lacks details.
Just my 2 cents.

Immanuel

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Italo Vignoli wrote:

> Il 13/03/2013 19:36, Jan Holesovsky ha scritto:
>
>
>  Does it help, please? :-)
>>
>
> Further to Kendy's answer, which I second entirely.
>
> The description of the certification program is here:
> http://www.documentfoundation.**org/certification/and
>  should be rather clear. The document has been agreed and approved by
> the community and the board of directors, after a rather long discussion,
> and can of course be improved (but I think that the scope is clear).
>
> In the future, there will be other pages in addition to certified
> developers, and these will be certified migrators, certified trainers and
> certified support professionals.
>
> The objective is always to support businesses in the deployment of
> LibreOffice, by offering a list of people (later on, of organizations
> employing certified professionals) capable of supporting professionally the
> different challenges.
>
> --
> Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
> mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
> skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Italo Vignoli]

Il 13/03/2013 19:36, Jan Holesovsky ha scritto:


Does it help, please? :-)


Further to Kendy's answer, which I second entirely.

The description of the certification program is here: 
http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/ and should be rather 
clear. The document has been agreed and approved by the community and 
the board of directors, after a rather long discussion, and can of 
course be improved (but I think that the scope is clear).


In the future, there will be other pages in addition to certified 
developers, and these will be certified migrators, certified trainers 
and certified support professionals.


The objective is always to support businesses in the deployment of 
LibreOffice, by offering a list of people (later on, of organizations 
employing certified professionals) capable of supporting professionally 
the different challenges.


--
Italo Vignoli - italo.vign...@gmail.com
mob +39.348.5653829 - VoIP 5316...@messagenet.it
skype italovignoli - gtalk italo.vign...@gmail.com

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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Jan Holesovsky]

Hi Joel,

Joel Madero píše v St 13. 03. 2013 v 11:06 -0700:


> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/

[...]

> Marc has already agreed to take this on :) He just needs some guidance
> and we need to further develop what our certificate program is for. Is
> it just to announce "super trusted devs" or is it to encourage growth
> in our support base (paid) for corporations or for individuals?

Yes, so - we are seeing requests from companies who are able to do L1
and L2 support who ask "what to do when there are problems that need
code changes"?  This page should help them to choose a company or an
individual who has the knowledge to provide them with such a thing - ie.
the answer to the above question should be "choose one of those
individual Certified Developers, or a company who employs (a) Certified
Developer(s)".

Similarly for NRE / contract work - "if you want a feature in
LibreOffice, you can be assured that if a Certified Developer is
involved, it will be done".

>  Are we encouraging more hourly work or looking at long term contracts
> with big libreoffice organizations?

Not sure I understand the question?  My goal personally is to build
trust that we (TDF) take business seriously, and even though TDF does
not do development itself (ie. cannot be contracted), it has a way to
distinguish between random contracting company who promises anything
(and delivers or not), and somebody (individual or a company) who has a
record of delivering and playing nicely according to the LO / TDF rules.

Does it help, please? :-)

All the best,
Kendy



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Re: [libreoffice-website] Page to list LibreOffice Certified Developers

[Joel Madero]

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 1:40 AM, Jan Holesovsky  wrote:

> Hi Website masters,
>
> Can you please create a page with a list of Certified Developers for
> us? :-)  So far there is only
>
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/
>
> that just generally describes what the Certified Developer is; but we
> already have a list of those who have been certified:
>
>
> http://blog.documentfoundation.org/2012/11/07/the-document-foundation-announces-the-first-group-of-libreoffice-certified-developers/
>
> and would need to store that somewhere.  [And soon we will have new
> names to add.]
>
> I guess the best place would be like
>
> http://www.documentfoundation.org/certification/developers/
>
> linked from the main certification site, with a text like
>
> - 8< -
> LibreOffice Certified Developers are individuals who have proved their
> ability to hack LibreOffice code to develop new features or provide L3
> Support to enterprise users, researching and developing solutions to new
> or unknown issues, designing and developing one or more courses of
> action, evaluating each of these courses in a test case environment, and
> implementing the best solution to the problem. Once the solution is
> verified, it is delivered to the customer and given back to the
> community.
>
> Certified Developers are present TDF members, were nominated by the
> Certification Committee, and peer reviewed by the Engineering Steering
> Committee.
>
> [and here the list of the Certified Developers - see the TDF
> announcement link above, it contains it in the 1st paragraph]
> - 8< -
>

Marc has already agreed to take this on :) He just needs some guidance and
we need to further develop what our certificate program is for. Is it just
to announce "super trusted devs" or is it to encourage growth in our
support base (paid) for corporations or for individuals? Are we encouraging
more hourly work or looking at long term contracts with big libreoffice
organizations?

Best,
Joel


-- 
*Joel Madero*
LibreOffice QA Volunteer
jmadero@gmail.com

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