Re: [whatwg] Using em for Meta-Content
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009, Smylers wrote: HTML 5 currently defines em as being for stress emphasis of its contents, noting that: The placement of emphasis changes the meaning of the sentence. The element thus forms an integral part of the content. -- http://www.whatwg.org/html5#the-em-element I'm not sure this definition is wide enough to encompass the use that HTML 5 itself puts em to, using it for the This section is non-normative bits at the start of sections, such as: http://www.whatwg.org/html5#introduction That shouldn't be em. I've changed those to i in the spec. This meta-content use seems similar to an article by a guest author being prefaced by an italicized paragraph from a regular author introducing the guest. Or editoral comments inserted into somebody else's work, which are often in square brackets and italics as well as having - Ed at the end. Mainly it's just indicating some kind of separation from the main text. Yup. i is appropriate for those -- it's a different voice. On Fri, 19 Jun 2009, Nils Dagsson Moskopp wrote: I suggest that either the definition of em is broadened to include this sense, or these normativity designators are instead marked up with something like i class=normativity or i class=other. I suggest broadening the small element, mainly because it is already spec'd to contain some kind of meta-information (legal text). small is more for side comments than a different voice. Editorial comments can be marked up using the ins element, as I understand it. ins would be for the actual change, rather than a note about the change. Cheers, -- Ian Hickson U+1047E)\._.,--,'``.fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A/, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
[whatwg] Using em for Meta-Content
HTML 5 currently defines em as being for stress emphasis of its contents, noting that: The placement of emphasis changes the meaning of the sentence. The element thus forms an integral part of the content. -- http://www.whatwg.org/html5#the-em-element I'm not sure this definition is wide enough to encompass the use that HTML 5 itself puts em to, using it for the This section is non-normative bits at the start of sections, such as: http://www.whatwg.org/html5#introduction The italics there don't seem to be indicating stress (and the sentence doesn't warrant an exclamation mark at the end), more that it's meta-content -- information about the section. Of current HTML 5 defintions that seems closest to one of the purposes of i: an alternate voice or mood, or otherwise offset from the normal prose: http://www.whatwg.org/html5#the-i-element I suggest that either the definition of em is broadened to include this sense, or these normativity designators are instead marked up with something like i class=normativity or i class=other. This meta-content use seems similar to an article by a guest author being prefaced by an italicized paragraph from a regular author introducing the guest. Or editoral comments inserted into somebody else's work, which are often in square brackets and italics as well as having - Ed at the end. Mainly it's just indicating some kind of separation from the main text. (strong isn't quite right for these uses either: while the sentence is important, it's hardly the key information in that section. If reading the spec out loud to somebody This section is non-normative is the kind of thing I'd say very quickly, as boilerplate to be got out of the way of the interesting content to follow (almost like legalese on radio adverts). That suggests the small element, but that isn't quite right either: whether a section is normative is materially relevant to the content, not just a legal technicality.) Smylers
Re: [whatwg] Using em for Meta-Content
Am Donnerstag, den 18.06.2009, 12:52 +0100 schrieb Smylers: The italics there don't seem to be indicating stress (and the sentence doesn't warrant an exclamation mark at the end), more that it's meta-content -- information about the section. I currently use small for that in my blog posts. I suggest that either the definition of em is broadened to include this sense, or these normativity designators are instead marked up with something like i class=normativity or i class=other. I suggest broadening the small element, mainly because it is already spec'd to contain some kind of meta-information (legal text). This meta-content use seems similar to an article by a guest author being prefaced by an italicized paragraph from a regular author introducing the guest. Or editoral comments inserted into somebody else's work, which are often in square brackets and italics as well as having - Ed at the end. Mainly it's just indicating some kind of separation from the main text. Editorial comments can be marked up using the ins element, as I understand it. Also, in your example, you could separate content through having an actual article element being preceded by some other block element. […] That suggests the small element, but that isn't quite right either: whether a section is normative is materially relevant to the content, not just a legal technicality.) As I said, small appears to have the most appeal to me. Cheers -- Nils Dagsson Moskopp http://dieweltistgarnichtso.net
