[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-26 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Tomasz W. Kozłowski odder.w...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||odder.w...@gmail.com

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #25 from Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com ---
For all intends and purposes this code is wrong. When the project is not
renamed, the code in the HTML should not have the als code.

This has little to do with consensus, this has to do with standards. 

Thanks,
GerardM

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #26 from Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org ---
(In reply to comment #9 by Clemens Kienzle)
 I have filed a request with ISO [...], which could result in a completely new
 code, or in GSW for all of Alemannic.

http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/langcodes-search.php lists gsw as
an ISO 639-2 Language Code for Swiss German; Alemannic; Alsatian. 
So I guess that's the case now.
Also, http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/browser/trunk/common/main/ also lists a
gsw file and no als files, plus a gsw_CH variant.


Summarizing the rest of the issue, as I've spent enough time here now anyway:

Comment #16: Opinion of Clemens Kienzle:
 Gsw right now does not stand for all Alemannic dialects, and 
 als.wikipedia is NOT exclusively a Swiss German edition!

Comment #20: Clemens Kienzle quoting the answer by SIL:
 no evidence was provided that swg, gsw, wae are treated as a single 
 language in some contexts *sigh*

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #27 from Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com ---
If a community is strictly against something and that doesn't interfere with
other communities, we shouldn't force them to do it.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Antoine hashar Musso has...@free.fr changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC|has...@free.fr  |

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #28 from Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com ---
Not changing the name is wrong. Not changing the code hidden in the HTML is
something else.. That is beyond stupid AND it has nothing to do with our
communities but everything with the functioning of the Internet.

We will not accept any new language that is not recognised as a language. We
use the ISO-639-3 to determine what is a language. This is why our names for
websites make sense. Als is NOT Alsatian, it will never be. When SIL says there
is no evidence, we can talk to SIL and show them the error of their point. When
it takes an official from the WMF to do that, so be it.

Thanks,
 GerardM

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #29 from Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com ---
Gerard, thank you again for your demagogy.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #30 from Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com ---
I was inspired to look at the HTML source it says...
wgPageContentLanguage:gsw

This means that for all intents and purposes the content is registered as gsw.
That is the most crucial bit.

If the WMF wants to be inconsistent in its naming, it can do so. As long as the
name is not changed, according to the language policy there cannot be a new
Alsatian project.
Thanks,
 GerardM

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-15 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

MF-Warburg mfwarb...@googlemail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||mfwarb...@googlemail.com

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Daniel Zahn dz...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||dz...@wikimedia.org

--- Comment #23 from Daniel Zahn dz...@wikimedia.org ---
is there any consensus about this one nowadays?

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-14 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #24 from Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com ---
As community around als doesn't want change and the code won't be used for any
other language (Albanian Tosk is standard Albanian; thus sq is used), I'd
keep this issue open.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-03-09 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Allen Stambaugh allen4na...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||allen4na...@gmail.com

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-02-18 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Andre Klapper aklap...@wikimedia.org changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|High|Normal

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-02-18 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #21 from Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com ---
Is there any clue what it takes to get the ball rolling on renaming projects ?
Thanks,
 Gerard

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2013-02-18 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Antoine hashar Musso has...@free.fr changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|REOPENED|NEW

--- Comment #22 from Antoine hashar Musso has...@free.fr ---
The general tracking bug 19986 which is for all wikis pending renaming.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2012-09-04 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Sam Reed (reedy) s...@reedyboy.net changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 AssignedTo|rhals...@wikimedia.org  |wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.
   ||org

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2012-02-11 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #20 from Clemens Kienzle clemens.kien...@gmx.net 2012-02-11 
21:05:42 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #19)
 Just want to note that the request for the macrolanguage code aeg was
 rejected by SIL.
 (http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/chg_detail.asp?id=2011-180lang=aeg)

Indeed, the reason being that no evidence was provided that swg, gsw, wae are
treated as a single language in some contexts *sigh*. So now I guess I'm going
to start compiling an exhaustive dialectological reference list and file
another request, since dialectologists have been treating all these as a single
language for something like the past 150 years or however long the field has
been around, something that could have been easily verified even online by
checking the site of the Alemannisches Institut
(http://alemann.eva-server.de/cms/website.php?id=deralemannischeraum.htm) or
this article by Renate Schrambke, one of the leading dialectologists in the
field: http://www.alemannisch.de/unser_sprooch/Gliederung.htm

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2012-02-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #19 from Robin Pepermans (SPQRobin) robinp.1...@gmail.com 
2012-02-08 19:13:54 UTC ---
Just want to note that the request for the macrolanguage code aeg was
rejected by SIL.
(http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/chg_detail.asp?id=2011-180lang=aeg)

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-09-12 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #18 from Clemens Kienzle clemens.kien...@gmx.net 2011-09-12 
08:01:56 UTC ---
The change request for Alemannic is now finally online:
http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/chg_detail.asp?id=2011-180lang=aeg

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #12 from Clemens Kienzle clemens.kien...@gmx.net 2011-07-17 
06:04:11 UTC ---
The als code stands for Tosk Albanian, not the Albanian language as a whole.
The Standard Albanian Wikipedia already has an an edition under sq. Since
there is currently no request for a Tosk Wikipedia, there is no urgent need to
move. When someone makes a viable request for Tosk, or when ISO get's their
codes for Alemannic straightened out, we can move.

By the way: redirecting from als to sq as you guys are proposing wouldn't
be right; Standard Albanian is based on Tosk, but still contains many Gheg
variants (e.g. katund alonside fshat, constructions like do me thonë
etc), which are in fact becoming more and more numerous as writers from Kosovo
are having more and more of a say in what Standard Albanian should be like.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #13 from Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com 2011-07-17 
10:15:42 UTC ---
All this does not negate the fact that the code als should never have been
used. It is wrong on the most basic level, this situation needs to be remedied.
Thanks,
 GerardM

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #14 from Clemens Kienzle clemens.kien...@gmx.net 2011-07-17 
10:48:19 UTC ---
It shouldn't have been used, but it was, back in the early days before there
was a language committee or guidelines for this. I don't see why now, years
later, the Alemannic community should be punished for that by having the domain
moved around multiple times. Please bring some more convincing arguments to the
table as to why a grandfather clause shouldn't apply as long as there is no
immediate need to open up the als domain.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #15 from Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com 2011-07-17 12:49:06 UTC 
---
* Language committee has asked the Board and staff to find resources for making
rename process painless. That should happen during up to the end of this year.
* Chances that the JAC [1] would accept code switching are low, as it doesn't
do that just for the sake of one internet project. (Note that one LangCom
member is JAC member, as well.)
* German Swiss Wikimedia projects will get redirect for at least one year for
switching.
* Anyway, from the point of technical implementation and counting the fact that
the present process of renaming projects is painful, as well as that there is
no harm to other projects, this can wait.
* Language committee will insist on code renaming in this case just after JAC's
decision. However, I recommend to the German Swiss community to start preparing
as soon as possible, because delay will make just more damage to them -- as
they would have to rename more links.

[1] http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/iso639jac.html

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #16 from Clemens Kienzle clemens.kien...@gmx.net 2011-07-17 
13:00:33 UTC ---
1.The JAC wouldn't switch codes for just one project, but since it follows the
classification of the SIL (Ethnologue), it will change the code when the
Ethnologue does. This isn't something that will happen overnight though, the
change request process with SIL seems to be very slow, and new editions of the
Ethnologue are not released very often either.

2.There is no Swiss German Wikipedia community, the language and Wikipedia
edition is called Alemannic, of which Swiss German is just one part. That is
the reason why I am fighting gsw tooth and nail right now. Gsw right now
does not stand for all Alemannic dialects, and als.wikipedia is NOT exclusively
a Swiss German edition!

3. It is not entirely clear to me what decision has been taken here. For the
sake of transparency, it would be nice if there was a clear statement
explaining what is going on. In particular, a statement informing the Alemannic
community at our central discussion board:
http://als.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Stammtisch

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #17 from Milos Rancic mill...@gmail.com 2011-07-17 15:18:29 UTC 
---
1. Please, take a look what JAC is at the provided link [1]. Ethnologue is one
of the participants of JAC and what JAC's decide, it will be Ethnologue's
decision, as well.

2. That's the valid reason.

3. Nothing has been definitely decided yet in this case, as you've filled the
request for code change.

[1] http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/iso639jac.html

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Ashar Voultoiz has...@free.fr changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|NEW |RESOLVED
 Resolution||LATER

--- Comment #10 from Ashar Voultoiz has...@free.fr 2011-07-16 08:03:43 UTC ---
Per Clemens comment above, I am closing this bug.  It appears GSW might only be
temporary, so better wait a final code :-)

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-16 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 Status|RESOLVED|REOPENED
 Resolution|LATER   |

--- Comment #11 from Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com 2011-07-16 
21:51:16 UTC ---
The comments by Clemens do not address one essential thing, The current code
als is the code for the most used Albanian language. 

This is why the code has to change.
Thanks,
GerardM

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Reedy s...@reedyboy.net changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords|shell   |

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-07-08 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Reedy s...@reedyboy.net changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||ops

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-05-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Clemens Kienzle clemens.kien...@gmx.net changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||clemens.kien...@gmx.net

--- Comment #7 from Clemens Kienzle clemens.kien...@gmx.net 2011-05-22 
16:36:44 UTC ---
I don’t see the people at als.wikipedia having been included in or even
informed of this in any way. I have been in contact with the people responsible
for assigning ISO language codes, and the codes for Alemannic are likely to be
changed at some point in the future anyway. I for one regard it as either
negligence or an affront to take such a decision without consulting the people
at the project involved in any way whatsoever in advance. Not cool. There are
several trained linguists active on the als. project, and I do think we have
something to add to this discussion. In summary: I urge you to put this on hold
and engage in a discussion with the people at the project.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-05-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Ashar Voultoiz has...@free.fr changed:

   What|Removed |Added

 CC||has...@free.fr

--- Comment #8 from Ashar Voultoiz has...@free.fr 2011-05-22 17:03:45 UTC ---
Clemens, this bug is merely a technical bug which was opened following a
discussion on the mailing list:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.org.wikimedia.foundation/34563/ . The renaming is
probably not going to happen anytime soon anyway.

Since your comment is a bit unclear, can you please state which language code
should be used instead of gsw?

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-05-22 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #9 from Clemens Kienzle clemens.kien...@gmx.net 2011-05-22 
17:26:52 UTC ---
Thanks for your quick reply, I'm not freaking out quite as much, now that
you've said that the move won't take place right away;) But since I wasn't
informed and only found out about this by chance, I don't know where to write. 

In a nutshell: the classification and codes made by the Ethnologue (which ISO
codes are based on) are total nonsense linguistically (basically because much
like Wikipedia, many Ethnologue entries are provided by whoever files a
request, regardless of qualification). I have filed a request with ISO to
change the various codes for Alemannic (gsw, swg, wae, gct) to something more
in line with current linguistic consensus. The Ethnologue and ISO will likely
follow my suggestions at some point, which could result in a completely new
code, or in GSW for all of Alemannic. But until that decision has been made by
the Ethnologue, the project should not be moved at all. Otherwise we might just
end up having to move it again, which would have a very negative impact on the
project in my eyes.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-04-07 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #5 from Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com 2011-04-07 08:59:43 
UTC ---
(In reply to comment #3)
 I believe we should take option 1. Unfortunately I do not know exactly how to
 do that, but I think that the option 2 requires more effort.

The reason I suggested option 2 is that option 1 will most likely break things
(and not just the wiki being moved, but things like account creations and
CentralAuth too) while the move is in progress. Also, option 2 allows us to try
things out and see if they work, which I think is wise since we've never
renamed a wiki before.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-04-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #2 from Rob Halsell rhals...@wikimedia.org 2011-04-06 17:42:07 
UTC ---
taking notes on how to do this and putting in here:

two options:

1) rename database, update change in all dblists and config, update apache
config (like new wiki

2) create new project in the proper space, copy over old database, ensure it
works.  read only old project, redump/import, launch new project, pull old
project offline and remove old databases

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-04-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #3 from Simon Hess sin...@hessplaza.ch 2011-04-06 21:29:55 UTC ---
I believe we should take option 1. Unfortunately I do not know exactly how to
do that, but I think that the option 2 requires more effort.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-04-06 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

--- Comment #4 from Casey Brown b...@caseybrown.org 2011-04-06 21:47:33 UTC 
---
(In reply to comment #2)
 two options:
 
 1) rename database, update change in all dblists and config, update apache
 config (like new wiki
 
 2) create new project in the proper space, copy over old database, ensure it
 works.  read only old project, redump/import, launch new project, pull old
 project offline and remove old databases

Did you see Brion's notes on the tracking bug? (bug 19986)  We should probably
put these there if they're not the same.

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2011-02-09 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Simon Hess sin...@hessplaza.ch changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Priority|Normal  |High
 CC||sin...@hessplaza.ch

--- Comment #1 from Simon Hess sin...@hessplaza.ch 2011-02-09 09:46:45 UTC ---
Please move the wiki to gsw. Because in the incubator and on the request site
for new languages exist requests for all the other language of the albanian
language and the most article in the albanian wikipedia are write in Swiss
German. --

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[Bug 23215] Rename the als.*.org projects to gsw.*.org

2010-04-17 Thread bugzilla-daemon
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23215

Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com changed:

   What|Removed |Added

   Keywords||shell
 CC||roan.katt...@gmail.com
 AssignedTo|wikibug...@lists.wikimedia. |rhals...@wikimedia.org
   |org |

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