[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 Gadget850 changed: What|Removed |Added CC||ed.pal...@gmail.com --- Comment #6 from Gadget850 --- The latest HTML spec obsoletes these elements that are allowed by sanitizer.php: These elements are supported by HTML5: -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 Daniel Friesen changed: What|Removed |Added Blocks|19719 |209 -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #7 from S. McCandlish --- The element is missing from the list of obsoletes posted by Gadget850 in Comment #6, 2013-05-12 21:54:27 UTC. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #8 from Daniel Friesen --- (In reply to comment #7) > The element is missing from the list of obsoletes posted by Gadget850 > in Comment #6, 2013-05-12 21:54:27 UTC. That's cause is still valid, was never removed, and hence is not obsolete: http://www.whatwg.org/html/text-level-semantics.html#the-small-element -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #9 from Gadget850 --- keeps coming up in discussions as being obsolete- anyone know why? Perhaps a draft spec? The only change is that is now has a semantic definition. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #10 from Michael Zajac --- Small was obsoleted as a presentation element, and has since been reprieved. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 C. Scott Ananian changed: What|Removed |Added CC||canan...@wikimedia.org --- Comment #11 from C. Scott Ananian --- The Parsoid project is sponsoring a GSoC student to write "linttrap", a wikitext linter which can (hopefully) aid in the semi-automatic conversion of deprecated markup. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 Technical 13 changed: What|Removed |Added CC||technical...@yahoo.com --- Comment #12 from Technical 13 --- May need to pick up the pace on this, mobile browsers are starting to drop these elements as can be seen in a simulated screenshot of what I see on my BlackBerry phone: [[:commons:File:Bad elements.png]]. I've been going through offering replacement signatures to those with the tags that have been removed and started cleaning up interface messages, templates, and help/project pages on enwp, but there are nearly 100K pages overall with these codes that render parts of pages invisible. I'll keep plugging away at it, but any help I can get would be greatly appreciated. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #13 from C. Scott Ananian --- @Technical 13 -- it looks like this is actually a font issue with your phone. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #14 from Technical 13 --- (In reply to C. Scott Ananian from comment #13) > @Technical 13 -- it looks like this is actually a font issue with your phone. Then it is just a coincidence that it affects all of the deprecated elements including , , , , , and (that I can see) and nothing else? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #15 from C. Scott Ananian --- Your posted image only demonstrates problems with and . The full list of deprecated elements is at http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features -- your phone has problems rendering all of these? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #16 from Technical 13 --- (In reply to C. Scott Ananian from comment #15) > Your posted image only demonstrates problems with and . The full > list of deprecated elements is at > http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/obsolete. > html#non-conforming-features -- your phone has problems rendering all of > these? The ones I listed in [#c14], yes. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #17 from Jesús Martínez Novo (Ciencia Al Poder) --- (In reply to Technical 13 from comment #12) That's really odd. When a browser drops support for a tag, just as any unknown tag, it should display the contents of the tag (not the tag markup itself), but not hiding its contents! I'm also inclined to think it's a font problem. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #18 from Technical 13 --- (In reply to Jesús Martínez Novo (Ciencia Al Poder) from comment #17) > (In reply to Technical 13 from comment #12) > > That's really odd. When a browser drops support for a tag, just as any > unknown tag, it should display the contents of the tag (not the tag markup > itself), but not hiding its contents! > > I'm also inclined to think it's a font problem. When I view the source of the page, the elements aren't even there. -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #19 from Gadget850 --- is no longer obsolete. http://www.w3.org/TR/2014/CR-html5-20140429/text-level-semantics.html#the-rb-element (In reply to Gadget850 from comment #6) > The latest HTML spec obsoletes these elements that are allowed by > sanitizer.php: > > > > > > > > These elements are supported by HTML5: > > -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #20 from Gadget850 --- is not whitelisted, so the markup will always show. (In reply to Technical 13 from comment #14) > (In reply to C. Scott Ananian from comment #13) > > @Technical 13 -- it looks like this is actually a font issue with your > > phone. > > Then it is just a coincidence that it affects all of the deprecated elements > including , , , , , and (that I can > see) and nothing else? -- You are receiving this mail because: You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529
--- Comment #5 from S. McCandlish 2011-08-16 08:01:59
UTC ---
These concerns are not mutually exclusive, and really are part and parcel of
the same thing. The reasons to stop supporting obsolete -style stuff in
wikitext are numerous. The most obvious is that wikimarkup is not HTML. We
allow some basic [X]HTML for experienced, geeky users, but there's not
guaranteeing we'd do that forever and ever, and supporting BAD markup of this
sort is just pointless. Second, it encourages sloppy coding everywhere.
Wikipedia is the most, or one of the top three most, popular (depending on
stats source; I tend to think that Facebook and GMail have it beat) websites in
the world, so what we do actually has influence. We are lending extra "life
after death" to dead code. Third, code from WikiMedia projects like WP and
Wiktionary can be re-used anywhere by anyone, and we have no control over how
that is done. Just pasting stuff is surely pretty common, so bad code from WP
is getting out "into the wild". Not a huge concern, but we should at least
only support valid markup if we're going to allow HTML at all. Fourth editor
convenience is better served by templates. Fourth, no one really expect users
to have to enter stuff like ..., when something like {{strike|...}} would do this
for them. And a.k.a. is a bad example anwyay; it's pure
presentation with no semantic meaning, thus its obsolescence. The
... markup, is still valid (I'll eventually ensure that {{del|...}}
works at en.wp, too). Fifth, we shouldn't force users to learn INCORRECT HTML
and CSS for their regular editing, which is presently precisely the case.
Implemented the correct stuff, removed the bad, and give non-HTMLish users
templates.
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[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 S. McCandlish changed: What|Removed |Added CC||mich...@zajac.ca, ||simetrical+wikib...@gmail.c ||om, smccandl...@gmail.com See Also||https://bugzilla.wikimedia. ||org/show_bug.cgi?id=671 Blocks||19719 Summary|Incrementall remove support |Incrementally remove |for HTML elements removed |support for HTML elements |from or deprecated in HTML5 |removed from or deprecated ||in HTML5 Severity|normal |enhancement -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 --- Comment #1 from Aryeh Gregor 2010-07-25 17:36:28 UTC --- I have no objection in principle to migrating away from using these somehow, so I agree that this bug should not be closed. However, there has to be some migration plan that does not force Wikipedia users to do unnecessarily large amounts of work, and someone has to code it up. These are obstacles that I suspect are prohibitive for the foreseeable future. It's conceivable that we could do some auto-translation of to and so forth, but that still leaves the invalid markup in the page source, so it's less than ideal. Note that it's not just elements here, but attributes too. For example, cellspacing="" and cellpadding="" are obsolete and invalid in HTML5 as well. The full list is here: http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/obsolete.html#non-conforming-features We don't allow most of those anyway, but there are an awful lot we do currently permit. Some of them (particularly table attributes) cannot be easily, reliably, and automatically converted to use CSS. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529
--- Comment #2 from S. McCandlish 2010-07-25 20:04:21
UTC ---
The tt element and other simple cases can be fixed in the wikicode with AWB and
other scripting tools and bots, after being fixed in engine to not actually
reach the user agent as a tt element, but a span with monospaced font. On
installations other than Wikipedia, they'll need to write their own (or adapt
WP's) tools, or fix it manually.
I'm not sure that allowing the tt element in the wikicode is a huge deal. We
also allow br elements without a closing / in them, we allow the p element
without a closing /p tag, etc., and it all gets fixed on the fly before it hits
the browser. I think that tt should be removed from the editor-facing
documentation, so that new instances of it are not added to the wikicode,
willynilly, forever. The help pages on editing should direct users to a
{{monospace}} template or something (which would use the span and font-family).
For HTML5-verboten attributes... Yeah, that'll be big fun. I don't have any
particular ideas with regard to table stuff especially.
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[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529
--- Comment #3 from Aryeh Gregor 2010-07-25
20:17:24 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #2)
> The tt element and other simple cases can be fixed in the wikicode with AWB
> and
> other scripting tools and bots, after being fixed in engine to not actually
> reach the user agent as a tt element, but a span with monospaced font. On
> installations other than Wikipedia, they'll need to write their own (or adapt
> WP's) tools, or fix it manually.
If people step up who are willing and able to fix all the breakage, I don't
mind disabling support in the software. But not before all existing uses are
removed, and people commit to fixing any stragglers.
> I'm not sure that allowing the tt element in the wikicode is a huge deal. We
> also allow br elements without a closing / in them
Which is allowed in HTML5.
> we allow the p element without a closing /p tag
Which is allowed in HTML5.
> I think that tt should be removed from the editor-facing
> documentation, so that new instances of it are not added to the wikicode,
> willynilly, forever. The help pages on editing should direct users to a
> {{monospace}} template or something (which would use the span and
> font-family).
I agree, but of course, this isn't the right place to ask. It's a wiki, change
it. :) (Or get consensus, whatever.)
> For HTML5-verboten attributes... Yeah, that'll be big fun. I don't have any
> particular ideas with regard to table stuff especially.
That's much harder, yeah. Of course, it wouldn't be a big deal if people would
just not use presentational tables, but good luck with that one . . .
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[Bug 24529] Incrementally remove support for HTML elements removed from or deprecated in HTML5
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=24529 The Evil IP address changed: What|Removed |Added CC||theevilipaddr...@hotmail.de --- Comment #4 from The Evil IP address 2010-08-24 15:49:23 UTC --- Why bother people with removing them from the wiki text? They're often much easier to write for the casual editor. Just compare #A striken out vote. to #A striken out vote. Or is a very easy way to center a text, is helpful to underline text and the like. We shouldn't force users to learn HTML and CSS for their regular editing. They should remain supportable in the wiki text and the software should convert them to proper HTML 5. The real concern here should be to move the deprecated HTML elements and attributes outta the software generated text. I've recently requested to replace some attributes in some messages at Translatewiki, and Siebrand then did it, but I'm pretty sure there's more such stuff. I can look for the MediaWiki messages with old CSS, if you want to. There may be some in core, and probably much more in the extensions. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
