[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354
Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC||roan.katt...@gmail.com
--- Comment #16 from Roan Kattouw roan.katt...@gmail.com 2010-09-29 15:58:28
UTC ---
Don't we have {{GRAMMAR}} for these kinds of things? I'm not totally sure how
{{GRAMMAR}} works, but if it can be used for this it should result in
nicer-looking code than that {{#switch:}}.
Of course {{GRAMMAR}} and {{#switch:}} suffer from the exact same problems, so
trading one for the other doesn't actually help you to fix this bug.
--
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are on the CC list for the bug.
___
Wikibugs-l mailing list
Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354
--- Comment #17 from Leinad danny.lei...@gmail.com 2010-09-29 16:40:51 UTC ---
{{GRAMMAR:}} provides
(http://svn.wikimedia.org/viewvc/mediawiki/trunk/extensions/WikimediaMessages/WikimediaGrammarForms.php)
only declension of the names of the
projects.
Polish (and other Slavic languages) also have inflection of other words, so we
need {{#switch:}}.
--
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are on the CC list for the bug.
___
Wikibugs-l mailing list
Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #18 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-29 19:47:44 UTC --- OK, this should be fixed on the tesla test server now. Please help me test it and make sure that everything is working as expected. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #19 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-29 19:48:25 UTC --- actually, hold that thought... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #20 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-29 19:55:48 UTC --- Sorry, svn conflict. Should actually be fixed on tesla now: http://donation.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org/index.php/Special:CentralNotice Please help test. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354
--- Comment #21 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-29 20:00:08
UTC ---
I've thrown out the new $sitename and $amount scheme. You should be able to use
any combination of {{SITENAME}}, {{#switch}}, {{#ifeq}}, {{GRAMMAR}}, etc.
--
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are on the CC list for the bug.
___
Wikibugs-l mailing list
Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #22 from Leinad danny.lei...@gmail.com 2010-09-29 20:02:57 UTC --- (In reply to comment #20) Sorry, svn conflict. Should actually be fixed on tesla now: http://donation.tesla.usability.wikimedia.org/index.php/Special:CentralNotice Please help test. I can't create an account. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org changed: What|Removed |Added Status|NEW |RESOLVED Resolution||FIXED --- Comment #23 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-30 00:49:00 UTC --- This is working as expected on Tesla according to Casey. Should get deployed to live next week. Marking fixed. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354
--- Comment #1 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-28 20:16:03
UTC ---
Most wikitext functions will not work in banners. The only reason some of them
worked before is because the banner pre-generation process allowed us to
implement some ugly hacks to use some of them. We should probably not be using
any wikitext within banners. We should be using HTML and Javascript instead. If
there is a requirement that banners use wikitext, we'll need to reimplement the
banner loader in a different way. When I asked Alex and Philippe about what
wiki functions were needed, I was only told about message translation and
{{SITENAME}}. No one mentioned the use of parser functions :(
--
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are on the CC list for the bug.
___
Wikibugs-l mailing list
Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #4 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-28 20:22:27 UTC --- Would you care to elaborate on the snarky comment? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #6 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-28 20:28:03 UTC --- The noscript is output if Javascript is turned off or isn't working. You'll still need to have a default option within the Javascript itself. If I can't figure out a good way to re-hack this functionality, I'll write up some complete Javascript for you to use for this situation. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #7 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com 2010-09-28 20:29:00 UTC --- (In reply to comment #4) Would you care to elaborate on the snarky comment? It's not snarky. I don't think it's particularly reasonable to require people implementing these banners to have a working knowledge of JavaScript. I think that requiring people to learn and use JavaScript is going to needlessly complicate these banners. Worse than requiring people to learn how to operate script tags, you're suggesting that they understand the semantics of noscript as well. This is ugly and hackish. It might be possible to include some sort of wrapper function, either in PHP or JavaScript, that makes this less painful. I'm not really sure how feasible that is, though if you were going to do that, you may as well just implement wikitext, because it's already at least understood by the people who work with these banners. As someone who has worked with these templates/banners/etc. in the past, even relatively simple code quickly becomes mangled and broken as these templates are duplicated and modified. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354
--- Comment #8 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-28 20:40:43
UTC ---
So it's not reasonable to expect banner writers to know basic Javascript, but
it is reasonable that they understand using Wikitext parser functions?
Regardless, any way that this is implemented will be a hack since the banners
don't live on the local wikis, they live on meta. So they can't just be parsed
and pulled into the page like a template. And {{SITENAME}} is especially
problematic for this reason. Obviously if I had known that this was needed, I
would have built a better way to do it in CentralNotice. In the meantime, I'm
offering a workaround. But next time, I'll just keep my disgusting ideas to
myself :P
--
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are on the CC list for the bug.
___
Wikibugs-l mailing list
Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354
--- Comment #9 from MZMcBride b...@mzmcbride.com 2010-09-28 21:10:29 UTC ---
(In reply to comment #8)
So it's not reasonable to expect banner writers to know basic Javascript, but
it is reasonable that they understand using Wikitext parser functions?
Regardless, any way that this is implemented will be a hack since the banners
don't live on the local wikis, they live on meta. So they can't just be parsed
and pulled into the page like a template. And {{SITENAME}} is especially
problematic for this reason. Obviously if I had known that this was needed, I
would have built a better way to do it in CentralNotice. In the meantime, I'm
offering a workaround. But next time, I'll just keep my disgusting ideas to
myself :P
Sometimes, people look back at what was previously implemented and say this
was a horrible hack, why did we do it this way? I realize that some of these
problems aren't easy to solve and I realize the importance of this project. I
imagine that's why the Wikimedia Foundation has hired someone to work on this
rather than relying on volunteers. :-)
The problem with workarounds is that they have a tendency to become
long-lasting. This is true of a lot of areas of MediaWiki/Wikimedia
development.
In my view, there should be as little coding required by the users of this
extension as possible. While JavaScript is obviously more common on the Web,
for most wiki users, ParserFunctions/wikitext are more common and easier to
understand. This brings the benefit of people being available to help if the
ParserFunctions/wikitext get complicated. The same really isn't as true for
JavaScript, surprising as that may seem.
That said, I don't think supporting wikitext/ParserFunctions is necessarily a
must-have for this extension, but it does provide some somewhat sane features
(like {{PLURAL:}}) that could be handy in banners.
When non-coders (or even coders sometimes) are forced to do coding, especially
in an environment that doesn't have input sanity checks like Tidy, we end up
with all sorts of nastiness from things like unclosed tags, for example. Your
suggested code seems frail and hackish. I imagine you knew this when proposing
it. I didn't mean to judge you, just your suggestion, as being disgusting.
I'm also a bit tired today; that's probably not helping matters either.
Apologies if I came across as snarky.
--
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are on the CC list for the bug.
___
Wikibugs-l mailing list
Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #10 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-28 21:31:03 UTC --- The original banner parsing code was prefixed with a warning declaring it A god-damned dirty hack by whoever wrote it, so it wasn't actually my subjective opinion :) I agree that using parser functions for all the uses you describe probably makes more sense than Javascript. I just wasn't aware those functions were needed in CentralNotice banners. Going on the information that I had (that we just needed a way to output the site name), I thought it made sense to throw out the parser hack (that was also causing problems with message caching) and just support $sitename as a sort of custom variable. Oh well, hindsight's 20/20. At least with the new banner loading system we can now do geotargeting, get real banner impressions, test banners within local wikis, and it doesn't break on secure servers. Trading 4 bugs for 1 isn't so bad is it? And thanks for the apology. It's frustrating to get criticism without elaboration or explanation. Constructive criticism is always welcome, however :) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 p858snake p858sn...@gmail.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||p858sn...@gmail.com --- Comment #11 from p858snake p858sn...@gmail.com 2010-09-28 23:00:09 UTC --- (In reply to comment #10) The original banner parsing code was prefixed with a warning declaring it A god-damned dirty hack by whoever wrote it, so it wasn't actually my subjective opinion :) I agree that using parser functions for all the uses you describe probably makes more sense than Javascript. I just wasn't aware those functions were needed in CentralNotice banners. Not to be snarky, but if something is written in as a hack, it's generally needed (and wanted) even if people don't remember to tell you. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354
--- Comment #12 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-28 23:23:41
UTC ---
Yes, obviously it was needed, but it didn't say what it was needed for. I was
told it was needed for {{SITENAME}}. When I rewrote all of the banner loading
code (which was necessary in order to be able to support the new features
listed above), rather than reimplementing some kind of hack to allow partial
wiki parsing, I just wrote something very straightforward to support the output
of site names. I wasn't just throwing out old code for the fun of it.
--
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are on the CC list for the bug.
___
Wikibugs-l mailing list
Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #13 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-29 00:15:04 UTC --- It looks like the old hack isn't easily implementable in the new system. Now that we are doing banner message localization based on user language rather than site language (which was another bug fixed by the new system) we can't use the site language for guessing the database name (an essential part of the hack) without further fragmenting our caching scheme. The hack also required doing $wgConf-loadFullData() on every banner request, which didn't matter when they were all pre-generated, but now that they are generated dynamically, that could be a performance hit. I'm still investigating solutions, however. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354 --- Comment #14 from Ryan Kaldari rkald...@wikimedia.org 2010-09-29 00:25:20 UTC --- I think I have a solution that doesn't require guessing the database name or loading a remote wiki's configuration on every banner request. Stay tuned... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email --- You are receiving this mail because: --- You are on the CC list for the bug. ___ Wikibugs-l mailing list Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
[Bug 25354] CentralNotice $sitename variable not working with ParserFunctions
https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=25354
Leinad danny.lei...@gmail.com changed:
What|Removed |Added
CC||danny.lei...@gmail.com
--- Comment #15 from Leinad danny.lei...@gmail.com 2010-09-29 02:07:39 UTC ---
Hello!
I would like to report that Polish language also needs {{#switch: or some
substitute.
In Polish we have various grammar forms which depend on the name of the
project. If you do not fix this issue, we will have create not one, but six
banners for each project :(
--
Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email
--- You are receiving this mail because: ---
You are on the CC list for the bug.
___
Wikibugs-l mailing list
Wikibugs-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
